Question:

I bought my sweety’s engagement ring at SAM’s Club. Paid less than half of the GMA certification that comes with it, and she loves it.

Response:

I hear you. I’ve been wearing my grandmother’s wedding band for the past five years and it is wonderful…because there’s not a single prong on the whole darned thing. It’s bezel set and I love it. Jen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After buying my girlfriend’s engagement ring, I decided to share what I learned and some tips.  If you’re going to be buying a diamond I think you’ll find this very helpful: http://www.advweb.com/michael/diamonds/buying_a_diamond.shtml Please let me know if you have any comments or questions. Thanks for the link. However, if I had to do it all over again, I’ll get a plain band with no stones. I’m pretty active and had to have my wedding rings re-set into a channel design because I kept bending at least one or two of the six prongs doing things as simple as vacumming the car. I can catch my rings on a carpet like no one else I’ve ever met! I’m tired of having to take the thing in to check the stones, too. Last time I did a couple of months ago, I had 4 loose stones. To me, it’s simply not worth the aggravation and constant checking for the upkeep of the thing. It’s beautiful, but I find myself leaving it in the jewlery  box more often than not, because it gets in the way. I’d like to have the stones set into a necklace for my heirs or just put it in a safe deposit box, and get a 50.00 plain band. Terri

Response:

After buying my girlfriend’s engagement ring, I decided to share what I learned and some tips.  If you’re going to be buying a diamond I think you’ll find this very helpful: http://www.advweb.com/michael/diamonds/buying_a_diamond.shtml Please let me know if you have any comments or questions.

Thanks for the link. However, if I had to do it all over again, I’ll get a plain band with no stones. I’m pretty active and had to have my wedding rings re-set into a channel design because I kept bending at least one or two of the six prongs doing things as simple as vacumming the car. I can catch my rings on a carpet like no one else I’ve ever met! I’m tired of having to take the thing in to check the stones, too. Last time I did a couple of months ago, I had 4 loose stones. To me, it’s simply not worth the aggravation and constant checking for the upkeep of the thing. It’s beautiful, but I find myself leaving it in the jewlery  box more often than not, because it gets in the way. I’d like to have the stones set into a necklace for my heirs or just put it in a safe deposit box, and get a 50.00 plain band. Terri

Response:

Another excellent tip….visit www.diamondtalk.com and go to their Diamond message board. That saved my fiance and I thousands!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After buying my girlfriend’s engagement ring, I decided to share what I learned and some tips.  If you’re going to be buying a diamond I think you’ll find this very helpful: http://www.advweb.com/michael/diamonds/buying_a_diamond.shtml Please let me know if you have any comments or questions. Michael

Response:

I do not get it Ron what is this person trying to sell?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SPAMMER Ron Ng Knows!

Response:

Another excellent tip….visit www.diamondtalk.com and go to their Diamond message board. That saved my fiance and I thousands!

Looks like a really good site.  I’m going to add a link to it from my page. Thanks! Michael

Response:

So my question is, do these types of treatment increase the cost of the diamond? And are jewelers (well, I am assuming those approved by the GIA or other institutes) required to tell you about the treatments? Amy

Of course it does. There’s huge profits in enhancing flawed diamonds. According to our consumer-guy on the radio, they’re required to tell you if they’ve been clarity-enhanced. Maybe it’s state law here, not sure. Check with your state. Imo, even if disclosure is required, seems to me it’d be extremely difficult to enforce. One jeweller advised, if you don’t know your jewels, at least know your jeweller. (sorta like knowing your burglar??) from a book by a long-time human rights worker:  _"Glitter and Greed"_ http://www.macha.f9.co.uk/dia-suppress.html (scroll down to _Open the Book_ some interesting excerpts, such as this one) Chapter Ten: The Forging of Diamonds. Did you think your diamond was genuine? Read this chapter then reconsider.  It should not be thought that all high quality diamonds are forged by nature. Today it is relatively simply to make them artificially – to make not just industrial diamonds but the purest highest most expensive flawless gems. This is no theory – it is happening today in secretive De Beers’s factories. Not much equipment is needed. I once watched an American government scientist make a gem diamond with an Oxy-acetylene torch…. … the Russians have used this method since 1977 and have found that diamonds can be made, not just from methane but also from alcohol or almost any organic substance containing carbon…. … Extraordinarily a British television news feature on the secretive De Beers diamond manufacturing factory on the Isle of Man stated that the diamonds made there by the above method are too pure for jewels’ for it is impurities that give diamonds their beauty.’ Jewellers would be astonished to hear this. They sell pure flawless diamonds for astronomical prices as more beautiful. Clearly this put another De Beers myth into jeopardy. It seems that a new myth had to be invented to explain why flawless diamonds synthesised in a De Beers plant were not suitable to be publicly sold as expensive gems. … De Beers is growing diamonds now in a multi-million dollar laboratory with over 500 staff in South Africa. A 38.4 carat yellow diamond … Russia is said to have 5 factories capable of manufacturing gems. … A diamond merchant called Joseph Schlussel in his office on Fifth Avenue in New York showed me diamonds synthesised by Sumitomo that he had cut as gems. They were dazzling and of fine rare colours. He reported in his trade newsletter Diamond Registry’ that None of the experts who were shown them could identify the difference between the synthetic product and the natural stones of the same size … the experts included cutters, importers, gemologists and even some De Beers executives.’ No wonder, they were real diamonds, though human made. … … an advertisement in 1988 in a Phoenix, Arizona, newspaper, the Sun City Daily News, exhorting customers to: turn the ashes of your beloved into a diamond’! It seemed we can reduce a dead husband or wife to an ornament in order to reproduce the sparkle in their eyes. .. In a Fifth Avenue building I met the son of Yahuda, a man who found how to mend diamonds invisibly – and who has set up a company to do just this. He told me heir technique made diamonds look nearly flawless and thus much more valuable, but cautiously added that they always inject a tiny amount of blue die into any diamond they treat to make sure their treatment could be detected. I stared through the lens and could hardly see the wisp of blue. Tens of thousands of diamonds are being thus treated. Russian scientists have proposed a way of fixing’ Australian diamonds to make them more pricey by adjusting’ the colour of the brown or champagne’ diamonds to make them white…. Evgeny Polyansky, the Deputy Science Director of the Russian Research Institute for Synthesis of Materials, said: It takes just one hour to convert an Australian brown to a fine blue or to a perfect colourlessness.’ …Then there are the hundreds of diamonds that are passed through certain licensed atomic reactors in the US. The radiation enhances their colour and is scarcely detectable – except with a Geiger counter! … …The company wanted Emile Rothschild back on the board. It had offered him a position on the board of their sister company Anglo American but he had said he would not accept it if it meant he could not go shopping in America. He had demanded the Oppenheimers first settle their quarrel with the Justice Department. The court found De Beer’s subsidiary and the two American companies guilty. They were fined and bound not to repeat cartelistic behaviour. They had to place a $125,000 bond to guarantee their good behaviour for the next 5 years. De Beers were fortunate that the Justice Department acted against them when they did. At that time a violation of the anti-trust legislation was only a misdemeanour’ with a maximum fine of $50,000. The following year the law changed. The same offence became a criminal felony’ attracting a million dollar fine. … in an interview for our film, You hear a lot that it is costly to grow gem diamonds. What isn’t said is that… say it takes you four days to grow a one carat stone, a two carat stone takes six days and a three carat takes seven days. What happens is the cost per carat is coming down while the profits go up exponentially…After a very short period of development, we (GE) were making three to four carat gem stones, flawless E’s, a very high grade of diamond. As we were growing them synthetically, we had a number of advantages. We could grow them all to the same size and a cutter could cut them all uniformly. We could include certain impurities such as boron and make different colours such as (rare) blues… It was very easy to grow a three to four carat blue diamond .

Response:

SPAMMER Ron Ng Knows!

Looks like someone just got their "1,000 hours free" CD in the mail from AOL.

Response:

So my question is, do these types of treatment increase the cost of the diamond? And are jewelers (well, I am assuming those approved by the GIA or other institutes) required to tell you about the treatments? Amy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He probably forgot to mention the common clarity enhancement techniques. http://www.giftsofnz.com/possum/pacjewel/diamonds.htm#Treated%20diamonds  Treated Diamonds  There are a number of ways in which diamonds can be "treated". Care should be taken when repairing any jewellery containing treated diamonds. If you know the diamond is treated, tell the jeweller!  Laser drilled: The drilling literally "burns" out an inclusion. Can sometimes be seen as a fine line or tube. Fracture filled: Surface reaching inclusions (cracks or "feathers") are filled with a "glass" type substance close to the refractive index of a diamond. The filling lessens the ability to see the inclusions. Laser drilled diamonds are sometimes filled in similar fashion. The filling can sometimes be detected as a faint mauve or other coloured ‘flash" under magnification and special lighting conditions.  Irradiated: Artificially coloured by electron bombardment then treated by heat or other methods to bring to the desired colour removing any residual radiation. The colouration is permanent and typically includes green, blue and yellow.  .

Response:

After buying my girlfriend’s engagement ring, I decided to share what I learned and some tips.  If you’re going to be buying a diamond I think you’ll find this very helpful: http://www.advweb.com/michael/diamonds/buying_a_diamond.shtml Please let me know if you have any comments or questions. Michael

Response:

SPAMMER Ron Ng Knows!

Response:

After buying my girlfriend’s engagement ring, I decided to share what I learned and some tips.  If you’re going to be buying a diamond I think you’ll find this very helpful: http://www.advweb.com/michael/diamonds/buying_a_diamond.shtml

<from your site The salesman (Diamond Source, Phoenix) took a lot of time to teach us about diamonds and I really appreciated that.

He probably forgot to mention the common clarity enhancement techniques. http://www.giftsofnz.com/possum/pacjewel/diamonds.htm#Treated%20diamonds  Treated Diamonds  There are a number of ways in which diamonds can be "treated". Care should be taken when repairing any jewellery containing treated diamonds. If you know the diamond is treated, tell the jeweller!  Laser drilled: The drilling literally "burns" out an inclusion. Can sometimes be seen as a fine line or tube. Fracture filled: Surface reaching inclusions (cracks or "feathers") are filled with a "glass" type substance close to the refractive index of a diamond. The filling lessens the ability to see the inclusions. Laser drilled diamonds are sometimes filled in similar fashion. The filling can sometimes be detected as a faint mauve or other coloured ‘flash" under magnification and special lighting conditions.  Irradiated: Artificially coloured by electron bombardment then treated by heat or other methods to bring to the desired colour removing any residual radiation. The colouration is permanent and typically includes green, blue and yellow.  .

Response:

Question:

I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there.  Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented. Ta. Seth.

Response:

Bring yer own snackies – that’s what I do. Snack a Jacks are good, Nutrigrain bars, little snack sized choccie bars (take one or two), gummy things are usually pretty low point if you don’t eat a ton of them, pretzels, and Skittles. You can always bring some Walker’s Lites as well – only 1.5 points for the wee multipack bags. Cheers, Petal

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there.  Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented. Ta. Seth.

Response:

I bring my own "goodies" to the movies, also.  Usually low fat popcorn, diet soda, low fat crackers, low point cheese wedges, pretzels….(No, not all at the same time!) I’m thinking now that a turkey sandwich on pita bread may be a good thing, but, I guess I’m more of a drive-in person than cinema. Steve Provincetown MA 277.5/199/200

Response:

If you can get the Quaker Crisps, there are only 1 point for about 8 of them. They come in all kinds of flavours – even salt & vineger (ugh?). The other is popcorn – the air blown is only 1 point for 3 cups (I think). If I am wrong, someone please correct me. Elaine K 331.4/244.4/180? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there.  Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented. Ta. Seth.

Response:

Gummy Bears!!!! I would eat the whole bag in a moment!!!   I shall bite the bullet and try snak-a-jacks, and see how many points in a bag of skittles. Ta for that. Seth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bring yer own snackies – that’s what I do. Snack a Jacks are good, Nutrigrain bars, little snack sized choccie bars (take one or two), gummy things are usually pretty low point if you don’t eat a ton of them, pretzels, and Skittles. You can always bring some Walker’s Lites as well – only 1.5 points for the wee multipack bags. Cheers, Petal I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there.  Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented. Ta. Seth.

Response:

I am ashamed to say that I have taken sandwiches into the cinema before.  Classy or what Seth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I bring my own "goodies" to the movies, also.  Usually low fat popcorn, diet soda, low fat crackers, low point cheese wedges, pretzels….(No, not all at the same time!) I’m thinking now that a turkey sandwich on pita bread may be a good thing, but, I guess I’m more of a drive-in person than cinema. Steve Provincetown MA 277.5/199/200

Response:

Never heared of the quaker crisps to be honest.  I shall nip down to tesco’s to investigate! Ta. Seth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If you can get the Quaker Crisps, there are only 1 point for about 8 of them. They come in all kinds of flavours – even salt & vineger (ugh?). The other is popcorn – the air blown is only 1 point for 3 cups (I think). If I am wrong, someone please correct me. Elaine K 331.4/244.4/180? I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there.  Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented. Ta. Seth.

Response:

I think those are what we know as Snack a Jacks – rice cakey things made by Quaker.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Never heared of the quaker crisps to be honest.  I shall nip down to tesco’s to investigate! Ta. Seth. If you can get the Quaker Crisps, there are only 1 point for about 8 of them. They come in all kinds of flavours – even salt & vineger (ugh?). The other is popcorn – the air blown is only 1 point for 3 cups (I think). If I am wrong, someone please correct me. Elaine K 331.4/244.4/180? I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there.  Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented. Ta. Seth.

Response:

Ahh. Bought a bag.  If I get thrown out for spitting them across the cinema in disgust, I shall blame you Ta. Seth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think those are what we know as Snack a Jacks – rice cakey things made by Quaker. Never heared of the quaker crisps to be honest.  I shall nip down to tesco’s to investigate! Ta. Seth. If you can get the Quaker Crisps, there are only 1 point for about 8 of them. They come in all kinds of flavours – even salt & vineger (ugh?). The other is popcorn – the air blown is only 1 point for 3 cups (I think). If I am wrong, someone please correct me. Elaine K 331.4/244.4/180? I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there.  Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented. Ta. Seth.

Response:

Oh..erm. Hehehe *I* never said I liked them! I merely pointed out what they’re called here. I actually find them kind of boring, but you may love ‘em. The cheese ones are okay – the caramel ones taste like styrofoam packing material. I suppose I probably should have shared this with you before you ventured out to Tesco’s, eh? *big grin* I know a few people in this group who love them, so it may just be a matter of personal taste. Enjoy the film, by the way! I’ll be seeing it next week. Looks like good fun!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ahh. Bought a bag.  If I get thrown out for spitting them across the cinema in disgust, I shall blame you Ta. Seth. I think those are what we know as Snack a Jacks – rice cakey things made by Quaker. Never heared of the quaker crisps to be honest.  I shall nip down to tesco’s to investigate! Ta. Seth. If you can get the Quaker Crisps, there are only 1 point for about 8 of them. They come in all kinds of flavours – even salt & vineger (ugh?). The other is popcorn – the air blown is only 1 point for 3 cups (I think). If I am wrong, someone please correct me. Elaine K 331.4/244.4/180? I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there. Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented. Ta. Seth.

Response:

I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there.  Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented.

If you get Hershey’s brand where you live, they make a hard candy called Tastetations. In either chocolate, caramel or butterscotch. They last a long time (unless you crunch them up) and you can have 3 for one point. Also, look for various cereal brands. For example, there’s a cereal here in Canada called Corn Bran that is only 1 point for a cup and it is small slightly sweet crunchy squares. Take your points calculator to the store as the sugar and fibre content varies wildly from brand to brand even if the calories are similar. The flavoured rice cakes are *sometimes* good – frankly Quaker brand is the best and many other brands are bland, bland, bland. Some crackers are good – Blue Diamond makes Nut Thins in various flavours (almond, hazelnut, etc) and they are 16 for 3 points but very crisp and tasty. Our cinemas sell coffee so that’s what I usually drink, but I’ve smuggled in bottled water or club soda too. Have fun! elaine

Response:

I had choccy ones, and they werent too bad.  Cant even contemplate trying the cheesy ones.  Eywe! The film, talking as a fan for as far back as I can remember is fantastic.  The got the feel, the mood, and the humour spot on. Highly reccomended, in fact, I have already booked the tickets to go again next week!!! Seth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh..erm. Hehehe *I* never said I liked them! I merely pointed out what they’re called here. I actually find them kind of boring, but you may love ‘em. The cheese ones are okay – the caramel ones taste like styrofoam packing material. I suppose I probably should have shared this with you before you ventured out to Tesco’s, eh? *big grin* I know a few people in this group who love them, so it may just be a matter of personal taste. Enjoy the film, by the way! I’ll be seeing it next week. Looks like good fun! Ahh. Bought a bag.  If I get thrown out for spitting them across the cinema in disgust, I shall blame you Ta. Seth. I think those are what we know as Snack a Jacks – rice cakey things made by Quaker. Never heared of the quaker crisps to be honest.  I shall nip down to tesco’s to investigate! Ta. Seth. If you can get the Quaker Crisps, there are only 1 point for about 8 of them. They come in all kinds of flavours – even salt & vineger (ugh?). The other is popcorn – the air blown is only 1 point for 3 cups (I think). If I am wrong, someone please correct me. Elaine K 331.4/244.4/180? I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there. Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented. Ta. Seth.

Response:

Unfortunatly, all the yummy stuff (especially the Corn Bran) does not exist this side of the pond, but thanks anyway.  We can live in hope……. Seth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you get Hershey’s brand where you live, they make a hard candy called Tastetations. In either chocolate, caramel or butterscotch. They last a long time (unless you crunch them up) and you can have 3 for one point. Also, look for various cereal brands. For example, there’s a cereal here in Canada called Corn Bran that is only 1 point for a cup and it is small slightly sweet crunchy squares. Take your points calculator to the store as the sugar and fibre content varies wildly from brand to brand even if the calories are similar. The flavoured rice cakes are *sometimes* good – frankly Quaker brand is the best and many other brands are bland, bland, bland. Some crackers are good – Blue Diamond makes Nut Thins in various flavours (almond, hazelnut, etc) and they are 16 for 3 points but very crisp and tasty. Our cinemas sell coffee so that’s what I usually drink, but I’ve smuggled in bottled water or club soda too. Have fun! elaine

Response:

I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there.  Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented.

Nothing beats a good old fashioned roll of Necco Wafers when I want a sweet snack that lasts a long time, offers a variety of flavors, provides a pleasant sensation in the mouth, and has a minimal impact on my daily food budget. There are dozens in a roll, but it’s never taken more than five in a row to satisfy my cravings. Love those clove ones! -David 321/281/185

Response:

I am going to see Spiderman on Saturday, and obviously want to stuff my

lurvley little face with crisps and sweeties whilst in there.  Any advive on point friendly stuff, apart from popcorn, which is possibly the grossest thing ever invented. Ta. Seth. << A chocolate candy bar better known as a ww’s 2pt brownie Tootsie Roll pop Rice Cakes: white cheddar cheese, regular cheese, bbq, onion/chive are my favorites Healthy, I bring from home, mircrowave popcorn Of course If I am viewing a movie at home I will pull out my movie theater looking plastic popcorn container and put healthy microwave popcorn in them. Fill up my movie theater looking plastic drink container and kick back and enjoy the movie.  I wish I had purchased more of those containers. 4-16-02 mo  198.8/187.0/130 dad  224.0/215.2/170 positivity not negativity!

Response:

Dou you also hire a young couple to sit in front of you and snog throughout the film, a man with abvious problems to sit next to you, and a small child to sit behind you and kick the back of your seat at regular intervals? Ta for the ideas. Seth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Of course If I am viewing a movie at home I will pull out my movie theater looking plastic popcorn container and put healthy microwave popcorn in them. Fill up my movie theater looking plastic drink container and kick back and enjoy the movie.  I wish I had purchased more of those containers. 4-16-02 mo  198.8/187.0/130 dad  224.0/215.2/170 positivity not negativity!

Response:

You are going to be there only 2 hours, do you have to eat?  Remember you are going to a movie and not to  eat.  Go out aferwards and have dinner. Gail

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dou you also hire a young couple to sit in front of you and snog throughout the film, a man with abvious problems to sit next to you, and a small child to sit behind you and kick the back of your seat at regular intervals? Ta for the ideas. Seth. Of course If I am viewing a movie at home I will pull out my movie theater looking plastic popcorn container and put healthy microwave popcorn in them. Fill up my movie theater looking plastic drink container and kick back and enjoy the movie.  I wish I had purchased more of those containers. 4-16-02 mo  198.8/187.0/130 dad  224.0/215.2/170 positivity not negativity!

Response:

The problem is, thay you are surrounded by other people who are eating very yummy, nice smelling stuff.  I could not trust myself not to rush out to the munchies stand and get a bucket of malteesers or something! Ta. Seth. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are going to be there only 2 hours, do you have to eat?  Remember you are going to a movie and not to  eat.  Go out aferwards and have dinner. Gail Dou you also hire a young couple to sit in front of you and snog throughout the film, a man with abvious problems to sit next to you, and a small child to sit behind you and kick the back of your seat at regular intervals? Ta for the ideas. Seth. Of course If I am viewing a movie at home I will pull out my movie theater looking plastic popcorn container and put healthy microwave popcorn in them. Fill up my movie theater looking plastic drink container and kick back and enjoy the movie.  I wish I had purchased more of those containers. 4-16-02 mo  198.8/187.0/130 dad  224.0/215.2/170 positivity not negativity!

Response:

Question:

1. The aggressive nature of the toilet often causes a courtesy flush to cause uninvited moistening of lower hanging body parts.  No on wants that.  Seriously, flush those toilets enough and I think you raise room humidity.

Hey, a bidet…that’s not a drawback, that is, as programmers say, "a feature…working as designed!" — Kirk Experience is the best teacher…      But her pop quizzes can be mighty tough.

Response:

It does, but I don’t  know how to explain it properly.  In public facilities, there’s a big vertical pipe in back of the toilet, which connects directly with the sewer.  Powerful ingress/egress of H2O. Gurus, please help!

But that’s the same as in my primary bathroom…it flushes directly into the waste stack. I think the public style toilet uses city water pressure directly (i.e., the pressure of the volume of water in the city water tower), rather than filling a tank and depending only on the pressure of the volume of water in the tank. — Kirk Experience is the best teacher…      But her pop quizzes can be mighty tough.

Response:

Power Flush Style commercial toilets are great. They seldom plug for one thing. To install it you will have to repipe the water inlets becasue they are a different heighth. They come in higher. I can’t imagine why you would need one but they are better yes.  Candice Lee Candice Lee

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It does, but I don’t  know how to explain it properly.  In public facilities, there’s a big vertical pipe in back of the toilet, which connects directly with the sewer.  Powerful ingress/egress of H2O. Gurus, please help! But that’s the same as in my primary bathroom…it flushes directly into the waste stack. I think the public style toilet uses city water pressure directly (i.e., the pressure of the volume of water in the city water tower), rather than filling a tank and depending only on the pressure of the volume of water in the tank.

Oh, that sounds like the explanation of why they fill so fast & strongly.  Thanks. — Polar

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Can I install a public style (sit down) toilet for home use?  How much do the things cost?  Do they require excessive pressure.  I imagine they are pretty good on water… Many thanks, Paul After reading posts and talking with local hardware store, will house copper pipe 3/4 main – 1/2 feed be enough to operate a commercial toilet or does it require more?

Someone said they need a 2" feed. Also, where can I get a urinal for the basement?  Those have to be easy to hookup.  No big debris or difficult water requirements.

Look for the Mister Miser, which is a residential urinal, which closes up, and uses only 10 oz of water.  Do a search on the web for it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Can I install a public style (sit down) toilet for home use?  How much do the things cost?  Do they require excessive pressure.  I imagine they are pretty good on water… Many thanks, Paul Sure you can. I won’t ask why. You need to have a couple of things in order to do this. First, you need a certain water pressure, and though requirements vary by model and manufacturer, 50 psi comes to mind as typical. More importantly, you need to be able to maintain this pressure while supplying a specified minimum volume of water. We typically don’t specify flush valve toilets unless the building water supply line is 2" or greater. These toilets can indeed suck down car keys, diamond rings, and dentures, as well as the occasional hamster or goldfish. Kohler, American Standard, and other manufacturers all have www sites where you can view products and specs on these fixtures. Most manufacturers have high-grade residential models which closely reproduce the flushing efficiency of flush valve toilets. You’d probably be looking in the $250 and up retail range. Don’t forget: flush valve toilets require maintainance, too. Flush valves wear out, get clogged, leak, etc., like anything else. And they are anything but inexpensive.

And let’s not forget: The code for residential toilets is 1.6 gpf. These guys are considered commercial toilets, and are exempt from that requirement, which is why they work so well…….

Response:

They work so well because of their speed, not volume. Good volume, very quickly. And look at the TOTO site, commercial toilets, 1.6 gallons all. http://www.totousa.com/toto/ProdCatalog.asp?cid=16 And a little more about replacing the older units at http://www.cityofseattle.net/util/efficientToilets/faqs.htm Commercial units had to become 1.6 GPF in January of 1997. There are a LOT of old toilets, with 3 or 5 gallons flush, that are no longer able to outperform an American Standard Cadet 1.6 gal unit. And replacing one of those would be better for all the family. The 1.6 flush units continue to have a bad name because there are pathetic units out there that wouldn’t be able to give a decent flush with twice the water.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And let’s not forget: The code for residential toilets is 1.6 gpf. These guys are considered commercial toilets, and are exempt from that requirement, which is why they work so well…….

Response:

Hi, Can I install a public style (sit down) toilet for home use?  How much do the things cost?  Do they require excessive pressure.  I imagine they are pretty good on water… Many thanks, Paul

After reading posts and talking with local hardware store, will house copper pipe 3/4 main – 1/2 feed be enough to operate a commercial toilet or does it require more? Also, where can I get a urinal for the basement?  Those have to be easy to hookup.  No big debris or difficult water requirements.

Response:

Hi, Can I install a public style (sit down) toilet for home use?  How much do the things cost?  Do they require excessive pressure.  I imagine they are pretty good on water… Many thanks, Paul

Response:

I gotta ask….why?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Can I install a public style (sit down) toilet for home use?  How much do the things cost?  Do they require excessive pressure.  I imagine they are pretty good on water… Many thanks, Paul

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I gotta ask….why? Hi, Can I install a public style (sit down) toilet for home use?  How much do the things cost?  Do they require excessive pressure.  I imagine they are pretty good on water… Many thanks, Paul

I had a townhouse in Honolulu that had that type of toilet.  There were only two downsides:  Initial noise and ugliness.  But there was no lingering noise of a tank filling, they’re economical with water use, and they almost never clog (unlike these dratted low-flow tank toilets). — Kirk Experience is the best teacher…      But her pop quizzes can be mighty tough.

Response:

I gotta ask….why?

Maybe to collect them quarters when company comes? Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

Response:

I gotta ask….why?

I am currently fixing a standard toilet which is driving me nuts.  The problem is the part which the flapper connects to won’t seat all the way down on the tank.  When I mate the tank to the bowl, it leaks.  I built a wood mockup of the toilet and found it is near the flapper tower thing.   I finally broke down and called my Dad.  He said he used a screw driver and a hammer to tap the nut tighter since neither of us had a wrench to fit it.  I will try this soon. I think back to the public toilets and marvel: 1.  there is no long tank fill time 2. most could suck down a brick 3. there is not multi-gallon petri dish for mold etc. 4. relatively no parts to fix 5. I should list 4 several times draw back: 1. The aggressive nature of the toilet often causes a courtesy flush to cause uninvited moistening of lower hanging body parts.  No on wants that.  Seriously, flush those toilets enough and I think you raise room humidity.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I gotta ask….why? I am currently fixing a standard toilet which is driving me nuts.  The problem is the part which the flapper connects to won’t seat all the way down on the tank.  When I mate the tank to the bowl, it leaks.  I built a wood mockup of the toilet and found it is near the flapper tower thing.   I finally broke down and called my Dad.  He said he used a screw driver and a hammer to tap the nut tighter since neither of us had a wrench to fit it.  I will try this soon. I think back to the public toilets and marvel:

The ones that are connected directly to the sewer pipe are the ones that have a mightly flush. 1.  there is no long tank fill time 2. most could suck down a brick 3. there is not multi-gallon petri dish for mold etc. 4. relatively no parts to fix 5. I should list 4 several times draw back: 1. The aggressive nature of the toilet often causes a courtesy flush to cause uninvited moistening of lower hanging body parts.  No on wants that.  Seriously, flush those toilets enough and I think you raise room humidity.

– Polar

Response:

What does being connected to the sewer pipe have to do with a mighty flush. I would think it would have something to do with the amount of water pressure and flow going to the toilet. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The ones that are connected directly to the sewer pipe are the ones that have a mightly flush.

Response:

Try asking news group- pdaxs.services.plumbing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Can I install a public style (sit down) toilet for home use?  How much do the things cost?  Do they require excessive pressure.  I imagine they are pretty good on water… Many thanks, Paul

Response:

Paul, you’re putting it together wrong. You might be following the instructions, but they’re wrong. Start with the tank. Put the rubber washer over the hole first. Then, on it, the metal washer. Then pass the bolt through the bolthole. On the underside of the tank, put a metal washer on the bolt, then a nut. Tighten it well. The kit may not supply a nut that’s short, if not, get a couple from the hardware store. When you have the two bolts into the tank like this, and the flapper valve closed, you should be able to pick the tank up, with it full of water, and it not leak. But the main thing here is that you shouldn’t have to snug tank to commode to stop it from leaking. You could break something. By snugging up the bolt/washer combo in the tank, it does fine. And you don’t have to run the risk of overtightening the nuts at the commode that way. Snug them to prevent tank wiggle, but it won’t leak. Okay?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I gotta ask….why? I am currently fixing a standard toilet which is driving me nuts.  The problem is the part which the flapper connects to won’t seat all the way down on the tank.  When I mate the tank to the bowl, it leaks.  I built a wood mockup of the toilet and found it is near the flapper tower thing. I finally broke down and called my Dad.  He said he used a screw driver and a hammer to tap the nut tighter since neither of us had a wrench to fit it.  I will try this soon.

Response:

For some reason I am envisaging a Portapotty parked in the hallway……. Great conversation piece:) Lukas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Can I install a public style (sit down) toilet for home use?  How much do the things cost?  Do they require excessive pressure.  I imagine they are pretty good on water… Many thanks, Paul

Response:

Hi, Can I install a public style (sit down) toilet for home use?  How much do the things cost?  Do they require excessive pressure.  I imagine they are pretty good on water… Many thanks, Paul

Sure you can. I won’t ask why. You need to have a couple of things in order to do this. First, you need a certain water pressure, and though requirements vary by model and manufacturer, 50 psi comes to mind as typical. More importantly, you need to be able to maintain this pressure while supplying a specified minimum volume of water. We typically don’t specify flush valve toilets unless the building water supply line is 2" or greater. These toilets can indeed suck down car keys, diamond rings, and dentures, as well as the occasional hamster or goldfish. Kohler, American Standard, and other manufacturers all have www sites where you can view products and specs on these fixtures. Most manufacturers have high-grade residential models which closely reproduce the flushing efficiency of flush valve toilets. You’d probably be looking in the $250 and up retail range. Don’t forget: flush valve toilets require maintainance, too. Flush valves wear out, get clogged, leak, etc., like anything else. And they are anything but inexpensive. John Paquay "Building Your Own Kitchen Cabinets" — ordering info located at: http://www.members.home.net/jpaquay/shop.html With Glory and Passion No Longer in Fashion The Hero Breaks His Blade.  – Kansas, The Pinnacle, 1975

Response:

What does being connected to the sewer pipe have to do with a mighty flush. I would think it would have something to do with the amount of water pressure and flow going to the toilet.

It does, but I don’t  know how to explain it properly.  In public facilities, there’s a big vertical pipe in back of the toilet, which connects directly with the sewer.  Powerful ingress/egress of H2O. Gurus, please help! The ones that are connected directly to the sewer pipe are the ones that have a mightly flush.

– Polar

Response:

    Just to point out that "flushometer" toilets were standard (maybe even code, because they were universally installed) in apartment houses in New York City in the thirties.  Many "pre-war" buildings still have flushometers.  Everywhere I lived in NY up to the late 70’s used them. Just don’t be in the shower when someone flushes a nearby toilet as cold water pressure drops to zero. — BobJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Can I install a public style (sit down) toilet for home use?  How much do the things cost?  Do they require excessive pressure.  I imagine they are pretty good on water… Many thanks, Paul Sure you can. I won’t ask why. You need to have a couple of things in order to do this. First, you need a certain water pressure, and though requirements vary by model and manufacturer, 50 psi comes to mind as typical. More importantly, you need to be able to maintain this pressure while supplying a specified minimum volume of water. We typically don’t specify flush valve toilets unless the building water supply line is 2" or greater. These toilets can indeed suck down car keys, diamond rings, and dentures, as well as the occasional hamster or goldfish. Kohler, American Standard, and other manufacturers all have www sites where you can view products and specs on these fixtures. Most manufacturers have high-grade residential models which closely reproduce the flushing efficiency of flush valve toilets. You’d probably be looking in the $250 and up retail range. Don’t forget: flush valve toilets require maintainance, too. Flush valves wear out, get clogged, leak, etc., like anything else. And they are anything but inexpensive. John Paquay "Building Your Own Kitchen Cabinets" — ordering info located at: http://www.members.home.net/jpaquay/shop.html With Glory and Passion No Longer in Fashion The Hero Breaks His Blade.  – Kansas, The Pinnacle, 1975

Response:

Question:

Folks, First off – a thousand thanks to LV and Ned Carlson for graciously providing me info over the phone yesterday.  Based on this info I felt fairly confident in purchasing: An Ampeg Gemini G-12.  This is a seventies-looking Ampeg with black tolex and the block "a" logo rather than the script Ampeg and blue diamond tolex.  It still uses the 7591s that the earlier Geminis used and has one 12" speaker.   One of the nicest amps I ever played was an older Gemini w/ one 15" Jensen in it.  I’m wondering whether anyone can tell me whether the G-12 will sound as nice? Mine came with a R. Shack speaker so it’s hard to tell yet how it’s going to sound.  I’m debating cutting a new baffle for it and putting a 15" Jensen in it.   Another question – my understanding is that the Geminis were 35-ish watt amps.  Is that true for the G-12 as well?  I’ve got a ‘66 Reverberocket that supposedly gets 18 watts out of two 7591s.  The Geminis supposedly get 35 out of two 7591s.  What’s the difference in the circuits that accounts for the difference in output?  An extra gain stage? Thanks, Scott McKnight

Response:

Folks, First off – a thousand thanks to LV and Ned Carlson for graciously providing me info over the phone yesterday.  Based on this info I felt fairly confident in purchasing: An Ampeg Gemini G-12.  This is a seventies-looking Ampeg with black tolex and the block "a" logo rather than the script Ampeg and blue diamond tolex.  It still uses the 7591s that the earlier Geminis used and has one 12" speaker.

Ahh, an Ampeg Unimusic-era G-12. A rare and wonderful amp. One of the nicest amps I ever played was an older Gemini w/ one 15" Jensen in it.  I’m wondering whether anyone can tell me whether the G-12 will sound as nice?

No real connection between them. The Unimusic G-12 was designed more as a Fender Reverb killer. Mine came with a R. Shack speaker so it’s hard to tell yet how it’s going to sound.  I’m debating cutting a new baffle for it and putting a 15" Jensen in it.

I recommend against this until you try running it with a good 12" driver. I have tried running mine with a vintage 12" CTS roundback as well as with a JBL. Both sound pretty good to me. Another question – my understanding is that the Geminis were 35-ish watt amps.  Is that true for the G-12 as well?

Ampeg nomenclature can be confusing. The G-12 runs at 22 watts or so. The Unimusic-era G-20 (2×10"), GV-15 (1×15") and GV-22 (2×12") combos all run at 35 watts, driven by 2×6L6 set. I’ve got a ‘66 Reverberocket that supposedly gets 18 watts out of two 7591s.  The Geminis supposedly get 35 out of two 7591s.  What’s the difference in the circuits that accounts for the difference in output?  An extra gain stage? Thanks, Scott McKnight

Earlier Ampegs typically used very similar circuits, with swapped out power tubes and progressively beefed-up components for increases in power. So Jets, Rockets and Gemini’s were often powered by 2×7591’s or 2×6V6’s. Get the Ampeg book (Hopkins/Moore, intro by Greg Gagliano, published by Hal Leonard) for more info on virtually all Ampegs. Definitely worth it. – Nate Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks, First off – a thousand thanks to LV and Ned Carlson for graciously providing me info over the phone yesterday.  Based on this info I felt fairly confident in purchasing: An Ampeg Gemini G-12.  This is a seventies-looking Ampeg with black tolex and the block "a" logo rather than the script Ampeg and blue diamond tolex.  It still uses the 7591s that the earlier Geminis used and has one 12" speaker. Ahh, an Ampeg Unimusic-era G-12. A rare and wonderful amp. One of the nicest amps I ever played was an older Gemini w/ one 15" Jensen in it.  I’m wondering whether anyone can tell me whether the G-12 will sound as nice? No real connection between them. The Unimusic G-12 was designed more as a Fender Reverb killer. Mine came with a R. Shack speaker so it’s hard to tell yet how it’s going to sound.  I’m debating cutting a new baffle for it and putting a 15" Jensen in it. I recommend against this until you try running it with a good 12" driver. I have tried running mine with a vintage 12" CTS roundback as well as with a JBL. Both sound pretty good to me. Another question – my understanding is that the Geminis were 35-ish watt amps.  Is that true for the G-12 as well? Ampeg nomenclature can be confusing. The G-12 runs at 22 watts or so. The Unimusic-era G-20 (2×10"), GV-15 (1×15") and GV-22 (2×12") combos all run at 35 watts, driven by 2×6L6 set. I’ve got a ‘66 Reverberocket that supposedly gets 18 watts out of two 7591s.  The Geminis supposedly get 35 out of two 7591s.  What’s the difference in the circuits that accounts for the difference in output?  An extra gain stage? Thanks, Scott McKnight Earlier Ampegs typically used very similar circuits, with swapped out power tubes and progressively beefed-up components for increases in power. So Jets, Rockets and Gemini’s were often powered by 2×7591’s or 2×6V6’s. Get the Ampeg book (Hopkins/Moore, intro by Greg Gagliano, published by Hal Leonard) for more info on virtually all Ampegs. Definitely worth it. – Nate

Nate, Thanks much for the response.  Actually, after not getting a response for a while I broke down and called Gregg Hopkins today, ostenibly to order the book (finally – I’ve been excited about it since I fiirst heard it was being written).  While I had him on the phone I asked several of these same questions and he kindly gave me some of the same info you’ve provided here. I’d still love to hear from anyone who has had experience with this amp. Thanks again, Scott McKnight

Response:

Question:

Last week, before washing down the planes, I had a chance to go over some details on mine.  The left side static port was plugged, which I opened, and then pulled the lines and blew through them to make sure they were clear.  The vario reads a constant 100 fpm down, and has since I bought the plane.  I had hopes that maybe clearing this plugged port would help some, but never thought it would clear it up.  It did neither.  Today, sitting on the ground it reads 150 fpm down. The vario is a Winter, I believe, and there is no front or back panel screw adjust to zero it out.  If I’m right, to zero it would require pulling the glass, along with the 2 7/8 inch bezel ring, which I’m neither officially qualified nor really anxious to do.  Does anyone have any idea whether I just have a bad vario, or do I have a plugged line somewhere else in the circuit?  I did notice that the altimiter read 200 feet lower today than it was last week, which makes me believe something is plugged, somewhere.  Any suggestions, other than the obvious? Richard B. Before you buy.

Response:

What did you blow out the lines with? Compressed air, I hope. Then a shot of Lysol to keep fungus from growing. assa9

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last week, before washing down the planes, I had a chance to go over some details on mine.  The left side static port was plugged, which I opened, and then pulled the lines and blew through them to make sure they were clear.  The vario reads a constant 100 fpm down, and has since I bought the plane.  I had hopes that maybe clearing this plugged port would help some, but never thought it would clear it up.  It did neither.  Today, sitting on the ground it reads 150 fpm down. The vario is a Winter, I believe, and there is no front or back panel screw adjust to zero it out.  If I’m right, to zero it would require pulling the glass, along with the 2 7/8 inch bezel ring, which I’m neither officially qualified nor really anxious to do.  Does anyone have any idea whether I just have a bad vario, or do I have a plugged line somewhere else in the circuit?  I did notice that the altimiter read 200 feet lower today than it was last week, which makes me believe something is plugged, somewhere.  Any suggestions, other than the obvious? Richard B. Before you buy.

Response:

What did you blow out the lines with? Compressed air, I hope. Then a shot of Lysol to keep fungus from growing.

Not too worried about that, they’re all going to be replaced next month anyhow.  What does bother me is that the error in the vario seems to change with the barometer.  This tells me that it’s not as simple as having the zero reset, and that replacement might be the cheapest answer.  If I’m correct, it’s original equipment and 25 years old, probably not worth sticking a lot of money in repairing. Richard. Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Guess what Mark – Santana sucks Donkey Balls ok? Get over it. Last time I checked this thread was about how to get Santana’s sound not whether your like the music or not. His guitar playing hasn’t changed since Woodstock. He offers nothing that interests me personally. So why comment. Just keep your mouth shut and move on to something that does interest you. Never once did I say that his sounds wasn’t in his fingers and brain. Don’t make me go back and paste quotes here from your previous messages. You’re all wet sweetheart and now would be a good time to move on or get lost which ever you prefer. Mark Plancke SOUNDTECH RECORDING STUDIOS Windsor, Ontario, Canada http://SoundTechRecording.com "Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it’s just not widely reported" – DAVID ST. HUBBINS

No problem, I’ll move on. We obviously don’t see eye to eye – and you seem to have this "i’m the man" sort of attitude. Nice talking at ya. — Brought To You By: http://www.pjspage.com http://www.mp3-audio.com Home Of The Hyper Dimensional Digital Guitar Blender And Drink Mixer —

Response:

An now to throw a monkey wrench in all this discussion… Is the world ready for that new Korean-made PRS model called the Santana SE (SE = Student Edition).  Yes, PRS is coming out with their own "Epiphone."   http://www.gary-hendershot.com/ Houston, Tejas, Estados Unidos

Response:

An now to throw a monkey wrench in all this discussion… Is the world ready for that new Korean-made PRS model called the Santana SE (SE = Student Edition).  Yes, PRS is coming out with their own "Epiphone."

Yes, the world is ready. the world has always been ready for products in different price ranges for different applications. I think your monkey wrench could turn out to be good news for some. Why does that bother you? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.gary-hendershot.com/ Houston, Tejas, Estados Unidos

Response:

Well, I for one find Epiphones depressing.  I don’t know what it is, but everytime I see somebody playing one, it makes me a little angry at Gibson. Gibson didn’t have the decency to make the headstock the same shape, and if you notice, the bodies of the SG and Paul are a little bit different in their Epiphone incarnations.  Also, the stop tailpiece on the Epi Pauls is further back from the bridge. Why can’t they make identical but cheaper foreign-made guitars like the Standard Fenders? So, I would say the PRS Santana SE has the potential to be a classic bargain (like the Standard Strat) or (more likely) an affront to guitar aesthetics like Epiphones. Just depends on how generous ol’ Paul R. is feeling to the little folks with small bankbooks.

Response:

Well, I for one find Epiphones depressing.  I don’t know what it is, but everytime I see somebody playing one, it makes me a little angry at Gibson. Gibson didn’t have the decency to make the headstock the same shape, and if you notice, the bodies of the SG and Paul are a little bit different in their Epiphone incarnations.  Also, the stop tailpiece on the Epi Pauls is further back from the bridge. Why can’t they make identical but cheaper foreign-made guitars like the Standard Fenders?

Nobody knows for sure, I suppose. But I think the idea was to make epiphones epiphones. they were always different in some ways. Anyway, why should they knock success? They sell a lot of guitars, the price range is good, and some people may even like the differneces. I, for one, could care less if the headstock matches exactly, nor do I care about miniscule differences in size or hardware placement. So, I would say the PRS Santana SE has the potential to be a classic bargain (like the Standard Strat) or (more likely) an affront to guitar aesthetics like Epiphones.

Calling epiphones an affront to esthetics makes the grand assumption that you set the values for esthetics. You don’t. But I appreciate your opinion. Just depends on how generous ol’ Paul R. is feeling to the little folks with small bankbooks.

You make another assumption, and that is that people who can afford expensive guitars wouldn’t have an epiphone. As time in here has shown over and over again, that’s just not true. But I appreciate your nose length.

Response:

   I find the "Teles" more interesting to look at than Stratocasters.   Roy Buchanan used a Telecaster and he made incredible sounds and beautiful music with it.

SO true. I like the sunburst tele’s very much, wish i had the coin tho i’d change out the bright pickups. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I find that Strats are boring and depressing.

Response:

    I find that Strats are boring and depressing.

I wouldn’t go that far, but they aren’t high on my list of wanted. I’d probably have two teles before I had a strat. They are all over the place.  I wouldn’t know where to shop for one.  They all look cheap. It’s impossible to tell if the Strat some people have is a good one or not. It’s impossible to tell if the Strat is made of wood or pressed chips.

You have to check serial numbers, and I’ve run into far too many strat owners that I KNOW replaced parts and forth.  I think if it matters, if you want a strat, you could check it all out though. To me there is nothing uglier than a sunburst pattern on a flat guitar. Sunburst is supposed to be found on an arch-top guitar.

not me. *G*     I just love it when people say…."I’ve got  72 U.S. made Strat"  For all I know, it could be a 2001 Taiwan thingy.     Fender even sells new guitars that are dinged, chipped, and yellowed with age.  I’ve got a Fender catalog full of the things and they still all look the same.  Imagine if I had catalogs from Hamer, Squier, Yamaha, Shlitz, Warthog, Acme, Barbie and what have you.

More people do that than fender… I don’t like it either. Certainly,every argument against epiphone you read in here can be made against almost every other manu who imports, and most of those who aren’t usa in the first place. On the other hand.. sales seem up for fender and epis, too.

Response:

    I find that Strats are boring and depressing.  They are all over the place.  I wouldn’t know where to shop for one.  They all look cheap.   It’s impossible to tell if the Strat some people have is a good one or not.  It’s impossible to tell if the Strat is made of wood or pressed chips.  To me there is nothing uglier than a sunburst pattern on a flat guitar.  Sunburst is supposed to be found on an arch-top guitar.     I just love it when people say…."I’ve got  72 U.S. made Strat"  For all I know, it could be a 2001 Taiwan thingy.     Fender even sells new guitars that are dinged, chipped, and yellowed with age.  I’ve got a Fender catalog full of the things and they still all look the same.  Imagine if I had catalogs from Hamer, Squier, Yamaha, Shlitz, Warthog, Acme, Barbie and what have you.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I for one find Epiphones depressing.  I don’t know what it is, but everytime I see somebody playing one, it makes me a little angry at Gibson. Gibson didn’t have the decency to make the headstock the same shape, and if you notice, the bodies of the SG and Paul are a little bit different in their Epiphone incarnations.  Also, the stop tailpiece on the Epi Pauls is further back from the bridge. Why can’t they make identical but cheaper foreign-made guitars like the Standard Fenders? So, I would say the PRS Santana SE has the potential to be a classic bargain (like the Standard Strat) or (more likely) an affront to guitar aesthetics like Epiphones. Just depends on how generous ol’ Paul R. is feeling to the little folks with small bankbooks.

Response:

    I find the "Teles" more interesting to look at than Stratocasters.   Roy Buchanan used a Telecaster and he made incredible sounds and beautiful music with it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I find that Strats are boring and depressing.

Response:

   I find the "Teles" more interesting to look at than Stratocasters.      Roy Buchanan used a Telecaster and he made incredible sounds and beautiful music with it.

Yeah, I agree. I’m actually starting to think of Fender strats as an "amish" guitar…they never change, they look the same as they did 40 years ago…however, some custom strats do look pretty cool.  I guess that is sort of the same as the Gen-X amish that I knew before I moved…couple of amish boys playing in a KISS cover band!! *Sits in wait for the nuclear flame winter*     I find that Strats are boring and depressing.

– "Ding-a-ding-dang-a-dang-a-dong-ding-dong-ding-a-ding-dang-a-dong."         -Ministry

Response:

It’s impossible to tell if the Strat some people have is a good one or not.

If they like it, then it’s a good one. -Dan

Response:

He relies heavily on dorian mode. Hi How does Santana get ‘that’ Santanna sound, i don’t mean equipment. What scales does he use? and does i construct the rhythm etc?

Shades of Frank Zappa’s "The Secret Carlos Santana Chord Progression"!!! — Personal replies welcome – but no flames or spams. * Personal website: http://homepages.tig.com.au/~avanstar "The best personal site on the Web"- Sydney Morning Herald http://smh.com.au/9909/25/showcase.html *Streaming video site – "A Virtual Serenade – 50 Popular Songs in RealVideo": http://www.geocities.com/avanstar

Response:

Guess what Mark – Santana sucks Donkey Balls ok? Get over it.

Last time I checked this thread was about how to get Santana’s sound not whether your like the music or not. His guitar playing hasn’t changed since Woodstock. He offers nothing that interests me personally.

So why comment. Just keep your mouth shut and move on to something that does interest you. Never once did I say that his sounds wasn’t in his fingers and brain.

Don’t make me go back and paste quotes here from your previous messages. You’re all wet sweetheart and now would be a good time to move on or get lost which ever you prefer. Mark Plancke SOUNDTECH RECORDING STUDIOS Windsor, Ontario, Canada http://SoundTechRecording.com "Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it’s just not widely reported" – DAVID ST. HUBBINS

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Check out the latest EQ Magazine. The cover story is on the guy who produced ‘Smooth’ and a bunch of other hits. There is also a feature on the engineer Carlos has been using for a few years to record his guitar (and band, tho sometimes another engineer is in charge of the entire session, Carlos brings along Steve Fontana to make sure the guitar sounds are recorded correctly). In the article he explains that Carlos currently (mainly) uses 3 amps- a Boogie Mk IIC (IIRC), a Marshall-no model given-and a Fender Twin in the studio. He normally plays through all 3 at once. Steve2000 Thanks Steve. I knew I read that article, but I couldn’t remember where. Mark Plancke

Hi Mark, After I posted this, I checked out an another thread with this link to Santana’s official website and his ‘equipment pages.’ http://www.santana.com/carlos/amps.asp I am pretty sure they are talking about his live rig, and it looks to be written by a non-player, saying that he uses a rack of Boogie heads and power amps. The heads listed as being as MK1 and a Heartbreaker, along with simulclass power amp(s)…so that he might obtain ‘Clean, boogie and crunch sounds.’ There is no mention of what type of speaker cabs or how many. If you click onto a ‘pics’ page (the amps on the first page are nicely drawn, not pictures) you’ll see some real-life shots. There is a Marshall head sitting there patched in with some Boogies-and a bunch of speaker boxes. Dunno if it’s his stage rig or in the studio. Looks a little messy to be a stage rig, but maybe it’s underneath or off-stage.   His live pedal board is barebones but looks to have an amp head switching mechanism. On the ‘Santana’ links page that brought me to his official site, there is a link to Marshall amps’ official site. No explanation just a link. My recollection of his recent backline diagram-I think Guitar World or Guitar One runs those features-has a Twin or some kinda Fender in the stage rig, probably no Marshall live. The current EQ magazine article I mentioned originally leaves little question about  exactly how Carlos and Steve Fontana are currently getting his studio sounds. It’s very detailed and a good read for anyone interested in the art of recording guitars and mic-ing  real amps (as opposed to going direct with a modeling box). Some of the stuff the engineer talks about might be helpful in many situations, regardless of style or specific tonal things. My original mention of Carlos using a MKII-C is just from memory of some old article I read on him around the 1995 tour he did co headlining with Jeff Beck. IIRC, somewhere I read an interview  where Carlos said he was using the same old Boogie head he’d been using for years …and (again IIRC) it was a MKII-C..considered by some to be the ultimate Boogie for a certain sound, though I believe the MK4 contains a channel or 2 which have this circuitry. FWIW,  the 95 Beck-Santana was a great demonstration of  2 (60s) rock legends who are vastly different. One (Carlos) locked into his basic guitar sound and many of the same licks and music style he’s played his entire career.   The other (Beck) being continually innovative and coming up with new licks and a wide variety of unique sounds all night long, endlessly innovative. Complex music, many ’styles’ I guess …but all Beck-ish. Both guys using basically the same equipment they’ve used for years- Paul Reed Smiths and Boogies, Strats and Marshalls  - their sounds basically coming from their hands, heads and hearts. Santana was ‘fun party music’ at that show. Beck astounded everyone and got standing ovations after many solos, lots of applause/screams after some particular hot or  unique whammy bar stuff, incredibly harmonics,  ethereal slide melodies played off the neck-over the pickups,  maybe a blindingly fast cascade of fingerpicked notes. All in all, something for everyone at that show <g…and a lotta ‘heart full of soul’ -and spectacular playing from Jeff Beck. I’m pretty sure that very few players picking up a strat and plugging it straight into a Marshall DSL halfstack (Pro-co Rat distortion pedal very optional) are going to come anywhere near the way Jeff Beck sounds with (literally) just a guitar, amp and his hands. No pick. imo Steve   .

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree with you (Even though your rather rude about it) but in Santana’s case I make an exception. His playing is sure recognizable, but even more* so with his amplification these days.. That’s funny, he’s been using the same Mesa Boogie Mk IV amplifier in the studio for how many years? If you think that a players tone comes from the stuff he uses and not his hands you’re sadly mistaken. But I’ve got nothing to prove to you so keep on believing what ever you want. Oh, your from Canada? Oh, you’re from Duluth Mn and it still doesn’t explain your cluelessness. I won’t go into your vs you’re thing. Mark Plancke SOUNDTECH RECORDING STUDIOS Windsor, Ontario, Canada http://SoundTechRecording.com "Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it’s just not widely reported" – DAVID ST. HUBBINS

 Guess what Mark – Santana sucks Donkey Balls ok? Get over it.  His guitar playing hasn’t changed since Woodstock. He offers nothing that interests me personally.  Never once did I say that his sounds wasn’t in his fingers and brain. Your the one who jumped all over my shit for expressing a god damn opinion – oh but your from Canada. — Brought To You By: http://www.pjspage.com http://www.mp3-audio.com Home Of The Hyper Dimensional Digital Guitar Blender And Drink Mixer —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi How does Santana get ‘that’ Santanna sound, i don’t mean equipment. What scales does he use? and does i construct the rhythm etc? Thanks MuTe If u would be so kind to check out my music at www.mp3.com/iangriffiths. Constructive critisism would be good. Thanks. There were two people…. …..you came secound

 But it is equipment that is getting him that sound. His guitar playing hasn’t really changed since Woodstock IMHO. He’s so over rated it’s not even funny. His amplification is where most if not all his sound is coming from. Really. — Brought To You By: http://www.pjspage.com http://www.mp3-audio.com Home Of The Hyper Dimensional Digital Guitar Blender And Drink Mixer —

Response:

He relies heavily on dorian mode.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi How does Santana get ‘that’ Santanna sound, i don’t mean equipment. What scales does he use? and does i construct the rhythm etc? Thanks MuTe If u would be so kind to check out my music at www.mp3.com/iangriffiths. Constructive critisism would be good. Thanks. There were two people…. …..you came secound

Response:

But it is equipment that is getting him that sound. His guitar playing hasn’t really changed since Woodstock IMHO. He’s so over rated it’s not even funny. His amplification is where most if not all his sound is coming from. Really.

[clue mode=on] Where do these people come from? The sound is in his hands, plain and simple. The amps and guitars only serve as an enhancement to what is already there. I guarantee that if you plugged into Santana’s rig you’d sound just like you and if he plugged into your rig, he’d sound like Santana. Amazing how that works. <bg The bottom line, there is no magic bullet. [clue mode=off] Mark Plancke SOUNDTECH RECORDING STUDIOS Windsor, Ontario, Canada http://SoundTechRecording.com "Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it’s just not widely reported" – DAVID ST. HUBBINS

Response:

But it is equipment that is getting him that sound. His guitar playing hasn’t really changed since Woodstock IMHO. He’s so over rated it’s not even funny. His amplification is where most if not all his sound is coming from. Really. [clue mode=on] Where do these people come from?

 I come from Duluth Mn, well you asked.. The sound is in his hands, plain and simple. The amps and guitars only serve as an enhancement to what is already there. I guarantee that if you plugged into Santana’s rig you’d sound just like you and if he plugged into your rig, he’d sound like Santana. Amazing how that works. <bg The bottom line, there is no magic bullet.

 I agree with you (Even though your rather rude about it) but in Santana’s case I make an exception. His playing is sure recognizable, but even more* so with his amplification these days..  Oh, your from Canada? That explains your attitude.. [clue mode=off] Mark Plancke SOUNDTECH RECORDING STUDIOS Windsor, Ontario, Canada http://SoundTechRecording.com "Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it’s just not widely reported" – DAVID ST. HUBBINS

– Brought To You By: http://www.pjspage.com http://www.mp3-audio.com Home Of The Hyper Dimensional Digital Guitar Blender And Drink Mixer —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But it is equipment that is getting him that sound. His guitar playing hasn’t really changed since Woodstock IMHO. He’s so over rated it’s not even funny. His amplification is where most if not all his sound is coming from. Really. The sound is in his hands, plain and simple. The amps and guitars only serve as an enhancement to what is already there. I guarantee that if you plugged into Santana’s rig you’d sound just like you and if he plugged into your rig, he’d sound like Santana. Amazing how that works. <BG The bottom line, there is no magic bullet. I agree with you (Even though your rather rude about it) but in Santana’s case I make an exception. His playing is sure recognizable, but even more* so with his amplification these days..

Check out the latest EQ Magazine. The cover story is on the guy who produced ‘Smooth’ and a bunch of other hits. There is also a feature on the engineer Carlos has been using for a few years to record his guitar (and band, tho sometimes another engineer is in charge of the entire session, Carlos brings along Steve Fontano to make sure the guitar sounds are recorded correctly). In the article he explains that Carlos currently (mainly) uses 3 amps- a Boogie Mk II-C (IIRC), a Marshall -no model given- and a Fender Twin in the studio. He normally plays through all 3 at once. Santana generally overdubs his solos as he is particular about his tone-obviously with the 3 amp thing. They generally separate and mic each amp, then combine the tones in all kinds of ways, sometimes making a comp on the spot, sometimes recording all 3 amps to separate trax for mixing later. Steve also mentioned there were a couple tracks, notably the Eric Clapton duet, where they each played old strats through twins and that was it. I have read interviews/articles on Santana over the years and though he is very associated with the Boogie sound he has never been afraid to use a Marshall in the studio. I believe I’ve seen a recent backline diagram for his current live rig and (IIRC) he is using the Boogie as his main amp, but also has a Twin there for separate or combination tones. I agree that that Santana’s sound and style haven’t changed much since he came up with it in the early 70s, but his equipment has subtly changed-not dramatically, but there have been Fenders, Marshalls and different Boogies in the picture down the years. So, yeah he needs a certain kinda sustain and the ability to crank in some midrange-but a lot of amps will do that for him. His sound is based on what he’s hearing in his head (and to listen to his ramblings in interviews, what he ‘feels’ or what is being sent down from heaven or whatever). When you read the interview with his engineer and some other interviews where Carlos talks about the hassle of getting the tone he wants onto tape, you realize he really knows the sound he wants…and uses many things to get it. The constants in the whole thing over the years have been his hands and ‘heart.’   —EQ Magazine Feb 2001. Steve Fontano article. Probably more than you’ll ever want to know about Santana tone. imo Steve2000

Response:

He relies heavily on dorian mode. thank you for answering my question

While it is true that he uses the Dorian mode more than any other, so do many other rock and R&B guitarists.  In fact, most funk is in the Dorian mode.  It is not so much the fact that he uses the Dorian mode, but the way that he uses it, and approaches guitar playing in general that give him his unique sound. —  << << << << << << << <<  << << << << << << << <<

Response:

I agree with you (Even though your rather rude about it) but in Santana’s case I make an exception. His playing is sure recognizable, but even more* so with his amplification these days..

That’s funny, he’s been using the same Mesa Boogie Mk IV amplifier in the studio for how many years? If you think that a players tone comes from the stuff he uses and not his hands you’re sadly mistaken. But I’ve got nothing to prove to you so keep on believing what ever you want. Oh, your from Canada?

Oh, you’re from Duluth Mn and it still doesn’t explain your cluelessness. I won’t go into your vs you’re thing. Mark Plancke SOUNDTECH RECORDING STUDIOS Windsor, Ontario, Canada http://SoundTechRecording.com "Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it’s just not widely reported" – DAVID ST. HUBBINS

Response:

Check out the latest EQ Magazine. The cover story is on the guy who produced ‘Smooth’ and a bunch of other hits. There is also a feature on the engineer Carlos has been using for a few years to record his guitar (and band, tho sometimes another engineer is in charge of the entire session, Carlos brings along Steve Fontano to make sure the guitar sounds are recorded correctly). In the article he explains that Carlos currently (mainly) uses 3 amps- a Boogie Mk II-C (IIRC), a Marshall -no model given- and a Fender Twin in the studio. He normally plays through all 3 at once. Steve2000

Thanks Steve. I knew I read that article, but I couldn’t remember where. Mark Plancke SOUNDTECH RECORDING STUDIOS Windsor, Ontario, Canada http://SoundTechRecording.com "Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it’s just not widely reported" – DAVID ST. HUBBINS

Response:

georgio schrieb: i do know that he changed from Fender amps to Mesa boogie when he did the Abraxas album… after that, all mesa..

Santana is one perfect example of a guitar player that always get’s his own tone, no mather which gear he uses. Bernard — www.piller.at

Response:

i believe the first two albums were with the SG and Third/Caravanserai/Welcome were Les Pauls – standard and Custom. Borboletta was a Gibson L6S and thereafter it was the yamaha SG until PRS came along in the early 80s. if you want to check out where i think santana got his main inspiration from listen to John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers album "Hard Road" especially Peter Green’s "Supernatural" – every early santana lick is there and with the long singing sustain. couldn’t have been easy to take over from Clappers (twice!) but Peter Greenbaum pulled it off. the rest as they say is history. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – georgio schrieb: i do know that he changed from Fender amps to Mesa boogie when he did the Abraxas album… after that, all mesa.. Santana is one perfect example of a guitar player that always get’s his own tone, no mather which gear he uses. Bernard — www.piller.at

Response:

When(years) and on what albums did he use his red Gibson SG and what amp(s) did he play through, also any modification info, Pickups,etc Thanks

Response:

i do know that he changed from Fender amps to Mesa boogie when he did the Abraxas album… after that, all mesa.. georgio When(years) and on what albums did he use his red Gibson SG and what amp(s) did he play through, also any modification info, Pickups,etc Thanks

– Remove the *NOSPAM* part in my email if you reply..

Response:

Sorry !  Next thing I’ll be checking out is this "Led Zepplin." just kidding, of course.

LOL! You whippersnapper!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ditto.  One of the best shows I ever saw was in about 75 when Carlos opened for EC.  It was right after 461 Ocean Blvd. came out and we Clapton fans feared for the worst but figured "what the fuck at least Santana will rock." He was tremendous.  Then Clapton came on and opened with Layla and tore the place down.  If that wasn’t enough the two encored together for about 1/2 an hour on Tell the Truth and Why does love gotta be so sad. Apparently when this tour went to NYC John McLaughlin joined in on the encore. (Hopefully you know who he is). If you are just getting into Carlos the must have album is called Abraxas (I doubt I spelled that right) released in about 1970.  Also I think He gave one of the few performances at Woodstock that didn’t suck.  There is about 15 minutes of him in the movie that is very good. I’ll be 40 in two weeks and it’s guys like you that make me want to shoot myself. Doug

Your gonna hate me for this, but I haven’t heard any John McLaughlin.  I know OF him… I suppose I’ll check him out… anything to increase my influences to draw from.   -=Devon Lougheed=- Guitarist, Composer, Arranger to reply remove NOSPAM from email adress

Response:

Shameless Name Dropping… Unsubstantiated-but shameless…

Apologies not necessary. Great stories. More! More!

Response:

<snipped nice Melton/Randall/Princeton/Boogie story Nice job steve!  Think you could post that over in rmm… Nevermind. — rct The opinions above are mine and mine alone.

Response:

The original Santana bassist, Dave Brown, IIRC, had a lot to do with the fluidity and motion in their music. Brown reunited with the band on the Clapton/Santana tour a few years back. Bass players make a difference!

That’s true.  When I started out (playing bass), I was told by an old blues bar guitar veteran, "Guitar players are usually a dime-a-dozen. A good bass player is hard to find.  You have to *want* to play bass and hold down the groove.  If you learn to groove and lay it down, you won’t have problems finding work.  If you can sing and play, you’ll have to fight off the calls."  He was right.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ditto.  One of the best shows I ever saw was in about 75 when Carlos opened for EC.  It was right after 461 Ocean Blvd. came out and we Clapton fans feared for the worst but figured "what the fuck at least Santana will rock." He was tremendous.  Then Clapton came on and opened with Layla and tore the place down.  If that wasn’t enough the two encored together for about 1/2 an hour on Tell the Truth and Why does love gotta be so sad. Apparently when this tour went to NYC John McLaughlin joined in on the encore. (Hopefully you know who he is). If you are just getting into Carlos the must have album is called Abraxas (I doubt I spelled that right) released in about 1970.  Also I think He gave one of the few performances at Woodstock that didn’t suck.  There is about 15 minutes of him in the movie that is very good. I’ll be 40 in two weeks and it’s guys like you that make me want to shoot myself. Doug

Sorry !  Next thing I’ll be checking out is this "Led Zepplin." just kidding, of course. -=Devon Lougheed=- Guitarist, Composer, Arranger to reply remove NOSPAM from email adress

Response:

I’d recommend Sacred Fire, which he did a couple of years ago, live in Mexico City. Adding Myron Dove was the best thing he’s done in years.  The guy thumbs everything and has this huge bass tone ala Marcus Miller, which they wisely mix right up front, and Carlos is still, well, Carlos.  Another cool thing about Carlos is his ability to consistently deliver a positive message of peace and love, without being corny about it.  He’s still the ultimate vato.  As my homeys here in New Mexico say, "He jams like fuck esse…" Panky

I saw that line up live and didn’t know who the bass player was. He blew me away, great groove, great tone-seemed to take the already great band up a notch. Also agree with your comments about Carlo’s continuing positive message. Steve

Response:

I saw that line up live and didn’t know who the bass player was. He blew me away, great groove, great tone-seemed to take the already great band up a notch. Also agree with your comments about Carlo’s continuing positive message. Steve

I always admired Santana’s bassists because they have such a fluid groove.  They don’t really groove… they go beyond.  I like to think of it as "flow."

Response:

I always admired Santana’s bassists because they have such a fluid groove. They don’t really groove… they go beyond.  I like to think of it as "flow." The original Santana bassist, Dave Brown, IIRC, had a lot to do with the fluidity and motion in their music. Brown reunited with the band on the Clapton/Santana tour a few years back. Bass players make a difference!

I agree with the first post and sometimes use ‘fluid’ to describe a bass player, he certainly is that. Shameless Name Dropping Trivia 1: I saw the original Santana many times when they were starting to breaking big. A lot of guys were from the Redwood City area on the SF Penninsula. Every guy in that band contributed something to their refreshingly ‘new’ and great sound. Not sure who led the percussionists (there were 2 or 3), Mike Shrieve was a monster on drums, he was very driving and had great feel and technique but not in the cliche "heavy" way that was popular at the time. He took a great solo, but it owed more to Buddy Rich than Ginger Baker. David Brown on bass had a critical role in holding all that rhythmic activity together. He could have chosen to be a rock, but didn’t. He moved right along with the whole band, very fluid. And watching him onstage, you could tell that he was feeling it. What a great unit that band was…. Even with all the players over the years, Santana maintains headliner status worldwide. Says something about the vision. Seeing Santana in those early days reminds me of the first time I heard him at the Fillmore and while he had a high energy rock guitar tone, it wasn’t the same type of Marshall or cranked Fender tones that everyone else was using, which brings me to.. Trivia 2 (Unsubstantiated-but shameless) I believe I actually played a few notes thru the very first "Boogie" amp. We were playing a club about 10-12 years ago. The club was celebrating a big anniversary, 20 yerars or something. The owner was the original one and had made many contacts and friends over the years by devoting Monday nites to regional or national headliners, with dance bands like mine filling out the rest of the nites. For the anniveryary show he had some of the folks who had been popular in earlier times and moved on, also acts tha were still active, like some of the Tower of Power guys and Elvin Bishop. We were the default back up band, providing equip or players to get guests on. Some had whole or partial bands, some just jammed with us. I had read a an article that said Randall Smith’s first ‘Boogie’ design was the result of a joke played on Barry Melton, guitarist for Country Joe and the fish during their prime. Apparenty, some friends had taken a Princeton Reverb to Smith, who was building a name for repairs and mods on Fenders back then (circa 1968-70 or so). They asked him to make the normally mild amp as loud as he could manage. According to an article I read, Smith installed the first cascading gain circuitry (which he’d been developing), beefed up the power section and put in an EV speaker (I think) to handle it. Result: basically a Boogie-ized Princton that put out about 100w. Not an uncommon occurance in a smaller size amp these days, but back then you needed a twin or showman (or Marshall if you find one) for that kind of volume-not to mention the added bonus of high gain.(I believe Smith also said he worked with the then popular keyboardist Lee Michaels to beta test.) Not only was the amp a success in blowing away Melton with all that power in a small amp, it actually sounded very good and was the beginning of the Boogie empire. Barry Melton (now a lawyer with a band…sound familiar?) was on the bill on our anniversary show. He had some guys and tunes worked out. The first Fish album was a favorite of mine in high school, so I was in a bit of awe. He was a real nice guy, older and mellow. I asked if he wanted to play thru my Musicman or whatever. He said no, he was used to his own amp, it was pretty small, could I just get him power? He set an old Princeton on the stage. I asked if he needed a mic and he said it kicked ass and he usually just turned it up. I asked if this was the (legendary) boogie-ized Princeton. He laughed and and said," You’ve heard the story too? Yeah this is it." I got him power and he let me play a couple of chords thru it. His style is that SF psychedelic type that is a few bluesy type licks combined with a lot of different melodic lines. He was true to his word. He didn’t need a mic. He just turned it up and it sang. Steve

Response:

I always admired Santana’s bassists because they have such a fluid groove.

They don’t really groove… they go beyond.  I like to think of it as "flow." The original Santana bassist, Dave Brown, IIRC, had a lot to do with the fluidity and motion in their music. Brown reunited with the band on the Clapton/Santana tour a few years back. Bass players make a difference!

Response:

I’d recommend Sacred Fire, which he did a couple of years ago, live in Mexico City. Adding Myron Dove was the best thing he’s done in years.  The guy thumbs everything and has this huge bass tone ala Marcus Miller, which they wisely mix right up front, and Carlos is still, well, Carlos.  Another cool thing about Carlos is his ability to consistently deliver a positive message of peace and love, without being corny about it.  He’s still the ultimate vato.  As my homeys here in New Mexico say, "He jams like fuck esse…" Panky

Response:

Anyone else here into Santana?

NO one in the world plays with as much passion and fire as Carlos. as far as I know, he was the first guy to include classical influences in rock(he was a trained violinist before he took up guitar), and still managed to retain the warmth and emotion of the blues, which is something the neoclassical metal guyas seem to have lost. If you can find it, check out the third Santana album. It’s just called Santana, and has some sort of dark, psychedelic wahoo stuff on the cover, and features Neal Schon (at about 19 years old as the second guitarist). The side that starts with "Batuka" has the most fire, anger, and desparate emotion I have ever heard recorded on one album. He was really hurting at that time, and the resolution of it shows up on the next album, Caravanserai, which is amazingly serene and joyous. Mike Vande

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just got Santana – the best of from columbia house.  At first listen, I’d have to say that the man is a melodic genious.  Europa is freekin’ genius, and soul sacrifice is so incredibly latino cool…. This is the first thing I heard from Santana, except for a promotional tape. Anyone else here into Santana? -=Devon Lougheed=- You just made me feel really old. How is it somebody could miss hearing Santana? : ) In my mind, it’s unfathomable, but, like I said, I’m getting old….. I’m bummed……

Ditto.  One of the best shows I ever saw was in about 75 when Carlos opened for EC.  It was right after 461 Ocean Blvd. came out and we Clapton fans feared for the worst but figured "what the fuck at least Santana will rock." He was tremendous.  Then Clapton came on and opened with Layla and tore the place down.  If that wasn’t enough the two encored together for about 1/2 an hour on Tell the Truth and Why does love gotta be so sad. Apparently when this tour went to NYC John McLaughlin joined in on the encore. (Hopefully you know who he is). If you are just getting into Carlos the must have album is called Abraxas (I doubt I spelled that right) released in about 1970.  Also I think He gave one of the few performances at Woodstock that didn’t suck.  There is about 15 minutes of him in the movie that is very good. I’ll be 40 in two weeks and it’s guys like you that make me want to shoot myself. Doug

Response:

Aye matey! I’ll be swabbin’ the decks from bow to stern after I’m tied and flogged by me scurvy shipmates…. Aar! Oncte was a punke what called me olde n I carried his wee head upon a pike and pisst out me bladder in his bloody stumpe.  Tis Keef Richards what be olde, squire.

Damn! You did that really good! I’m not worthy!!!!

Response:

The Great Gibson Part Sale List New humbucking  Pickups:  Gibson USA’s    6 Gold w/black ring    3 Gold w/cream ring        3 Zebras  no ring                 All 30.00 each    6 Chrome no ring    4 Chrome with black rings    1 Black with black ring 1- Gold Gibson Citation floating pickup     60.00 The Original Gibson Humbucker  HBR   2 No cover/ black ring  8  chrome cover/ cream ring  18 chrome cover /black ring    1 gold cover  no ring 3 Chrome with no ring                          All 30.00 each New Pat # ’s :  13 Chrome cover /cream ring   18 Chrome cover/ black ring    5 No cover /black ring    3 No cover/ cream ring    8 Chrome with no rings                                                                All 30.00 each  48 500 T’s black w/no ring 45 490 R’s black with black rings 25 490  T’s  chrome/ cream 48   490  R’s  cream/ cream 49 37 496 R’s black w/black rings 36 500  T’s  black/ no rings                All 30.00 each 14 500 T’s black w/cream rings 22 black w/black rings New  Gibson singlecoil  NSX’s : 36  Black                                                All 15.00 each 1 PAF 57 classic   Gold w/blk ring   45.00 New Gibson bass pickups:  31 P-bass style  39 Jazz bass style                                   All 20.00 each Gibson P-100’s :  23 dog ear    2 non dogeared                            All 40.00 each 4  Select by EMG guitar humbuckers and single coils   10.00 each 13  Select Bass humbuckers:    10.00 each 2 Stienberger bass pickups black w/black metal rings  20.00 each New Gibson Bridges: 10 ABR chrome & nickel w/out saddles  85 Gold ABR w/out saddles            All 10.00 each 2 SG chrome, Made In Germany, Bridges w/saddles    20.00 each 2- L5 Ebony bridge base with inlay   10.00 1 L-5 style Ebony bridge with Ebony wood inlaid base  15.00 1 L-5 Ebony, inlaid base w/gold ABR-1               20.00 Pickguards:  Flying V’s  2 white / 1-black        4.00 each  Emporer regent jazz style  5-black     3.00 each  Fender Telecaster  tortis pearl-burst-gold New  15.00  Les Paul-black  Beauty 3 pickup style       5.00each 3 Les Paul, Black w/ blk/white/blk      5.00 each  Es-335 pickguard  black         10.00  ES-295 pickguard white w/gold flower scroll design   25.00 new still plastic coated Gibson firebird black w/gold lettering truss rod cover       3.00 Epiphone firebird truss rod cover white     1.00 2 Epiphone odd shaped truss rod covers    .50 each 1 Ephiphone mandolin tortis pickguard      3.00 Black pickup rings  13 Black back plates  2 Brown back plates 3 Black switch plates 8 Brown switch plates 2 Brass  jack plates 4 Black jack plates 3                All 1.00 each   Brass/ 2.00 each Gibson truss rod covers black  5   1.00 each Blank truss rod covers black 3   1.00each   2 Les Paul model decals    5.00each 4 The Gibson Guitar Co. decals    5.00each 2 – silver whammy bars /white tips  ephi style    .50 each Brass Truss covers  1     3.00 each 90 short shaft VT pots –    1.00 each 14 long shaft pots –    2.00 each 10mini 500 K pots  -   1.00 each 8 Lucielle 8 position switch    4.00 each 15 Les Paul switches  -   3.00 each 1 SG switch       3.00 80 lbs of 6105 size frett wire  -  5.00 per pound Steinburger system bridge/tailpiece/nut combo: for bass –   6  -     35.00 each Black Steinburger knobs  30-    .50  each p-90 dog-ear cover black-1   2.00 1-cr

Question:

OPTHALMOLOGIST Hell of a word, but I haven’t seen it spelled right yet –Cindy

Um, Cindy, it’s OpHthalmologist. Now it’s spelled right! — Robin, Jasper and Dreamer (my opinions are strictly my own!) Doberman page: http://www.hsc.missouri.edu/people/robin/

Response:

I’ll expand a little bit on Cindy’s remarks on CERF.

Thanks for the comments — I appreciated them.  One note:  This examination uses a standard form to fill out that describes the condition of each eye and is signed by the veterinarian performing the examination.  You get a copy, I believe the vet is required to turn her copy in to CERF. The vet is required to do so.

<snip If you can afford it, it is a very good idea to submit the form to CERF for registration each year so CERF can build a database on your breed.

As I understand it, the database is built from the veterinary forms turned in.  You just get a number for other people to look up (useful in of itself, actually) by turning it in yourself. –Cindy —    WAGGERY   U-CD Terrell’s Chocolate Deduction CGC CDX–Hershe   LABRADORS

Response:

CERF is the "Canine Eye Registration Foundation".  They are similar to OFA (Osteopathic Foundation for Animals) except that they provide certification for eyes not hips and elbows.  Some breeds are prone to eye disorders (cateracts, abnormalities, etc.) and a good breeder will always provide you of proof.  This is usually designated by "CERF Clear" in their add or letter.  If you are buying a dog and it is a breed that is prone to eye disorders please request a copy of the CERF certificate.  Keep in mind that dogs should be re-CERFed every year until about age 6 or so (that is if they have been clear all 6 years).  OFA on the other hand is a one time XRAY done after the age of 2 (I always do my dogs on their 2nd birthday).  OFA gives a dog a registration number if they are clear of hip displaysa.  The number will contain a F for fair, G for good, or an E for an excellant rating.  Do not confuse the F for female with an F for fair.  They also have a date in months as to how old the dog was when it was OFAed.  If you need more info please feel free to email me she knows about a hundred times more than I do).

Response:

OPTHALMOLOGIST Hell of a word, but I haven’t seen it spelled right yet Nor have I yet.  OPHTHALMOLOGIST.  *^%$%^&$*

Probably because most people pronounce it wrong – they say OP – THAL – MOL- O – GIST….thinking of optometry or optometrist. It is pronouned… OFF – THAL – MOL – O – GIST therefore spelled "ophthalmologist. Debbie Tripp Kimberlite Kennels Reg’d. Home of Kleinebar’s Diamond Kimberlite, Ch. Sanmarco’s Smokey Quartz, Ch. Kimberlite’s Amethyst, Ch. Kimberlite’s Blue Diamond, Ch. Bev’s Kimberlite Cornerstone, Kimberlite’s Captain Crunch and Kimberlite’s Cocoa Puff.

Response:

I’ll expand a little bit on Cindy’s remarks on CERF. Let me expand a tad on CERF, as it works differently from OFA.  In OFA, you have a vet take the xrays and you send those in to OFA for them to evaluate & grade. In contrast, to get a CERF, you have the eyes examined by an ACVO Board Certified Veterinarian.

ACVO is the American College of Veterinary Opthamologists.   This examination uses a standard form to fill out that describes the condition of each eye and is signed by the veterinarian performing the examination.  You get a copy, I believe the vet is required to turn her copy in to CERF.

The vet is required to do so.  You pay $15-$30 for this examination, depending on where you have it done or if you take advantage of a clinic. Now that you have the form, you can at your option turn it into CERF along with a $7 fee to get a registered number.  This number will go into AKC’s database.  It’s good for a year.  I went the whole shebang earlier this year; I suspect I’ll just get the form done next time (and next, and next…).  Either way is fine…either the breeder can show you a string of CERF numbers or a set of forms (they are all the exact same form used in the US) for each year the dog has been examined.  

If you can afford it, it is a very good idea to submit the form to CERF for registration each year so CERF can build a database on your breed. IN some breeds,t he first examination shoudl be at eight weeks of age and then yearely thereafter.  In many breeds, checking starts  just before breeding and then yearly thereafter.

Some very good and very particular vets will note eye defects on the form that are not enough for decertification but are important to keep track of and note. For instance, many breeds suffer from distichiasis (ingrown eyelashes). While this malady is not enough to prevent the dog from getting a CERF number in most breeds, it is important to take note if your dog has this if you ever intend to breed the dog. It is also important to let people know that even if your dog has a CERF number, it also has distichiasis (or other problems noted on the form by the vet that do not prevent the dog from being CERFed.) Some vets don’t automatically write down what they consider minor eye faults, such as distichiasis. You should tell the vet doing the examination of your dog’s eyes that you want minor, non-visually impairing traits, such as distichiasis, noted on the form. This is to keep an accurate data base for your breed. When breeding to a stud dog, you should always ask to see the eye examination form rather than just rely on the CERF number. Why? Because it is important to note such things as pigment clumpss in the eye, distichiasis, concerns about possible hyper-reflective spots, etc. When a young dog (under five) has several notations on his form about pigment clumps or possible hyper-reflective spots, etc., it is well to take note, especially if your bitch has any of these noted on her form as well. jaymar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –Cindy —    WAGGERY   U-CD Terrell’s Chocolate Deduction CGC CDX–Hershe   LABRADORS

Response:

OPTHALMOLOGIST Hell of a word, but I haven’t seen it spelled right yet –Cindy —    WAGGERY   U-CD Terrell’s Chocolate Deduction CGC CDX–Hershe   LABRADORS

Response:

OPTHALMOLOGIST Hell of a word, but I haven’t seen it spelled right yet

Nor have I yet.  OPHTHALMOLOGIST.  *^%$%^&$* –Cindy —    WAGGERY   U-CD Terrell’s Chocolate Deduction CGC CDX–Hershe   LABRADORS

Response:

CERF is something like Canine Eye Registry Foundation.  Exam must be done by board-certified canine opthamologist.  Certification is good for one year.  In breeds prone to eye problems (including but not limited to Goldens, BC’s poodles, cockers), ask to SEE the certificate on the dam and photocopy of certificate on sire to check for current dates before buying a puppy. Mary Alice

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there. I cant remember exactly what it stands for…(someone help out here?) but it is a somethingorother eye foundation (tests for eye/vision problems) Im sure someone else will be able to help more. CERF stands for Canine Eye Registry Foundation. Although not all breeds need to be CERF’d or examined by a canine opthomologist, it is very important for some breeds. You can check in one of the FAQ’s or a breed book to see if the breed you are interested mentions anything about eye problems. If it does, and you are looking for a puppy, ask to see the latest CERF report on the bitch and the dog being bred. This should be no more than a year or so old…it should be done each and every year of the life of a dog being used or possibly being used for breeding. Puppies should be done, to check on any possible puppy eye problems, and should then be done each year afterwards. It’s abou;$20 a year to do this, and many breed clubs sponsor clinics. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Anyone who is such a scaredy cccatt that they MAIl their flames to me rather than posting them, will see them posted as a followup to the thread.

Is CERF recommended routinely for the GSD? Terri

Response:

CERF…Canine Eye Registration Foundation…..Eye tests for dogs..checks for entropion, ectropion..distichiasis, ectopic cilia etc, alos third eyelid problens, cornea problems..commonly used to check for PRA..Progressive Retinal Atrophy..

Response:

Hi Rick CERF…Canine Eye Registration Foundation..checks for eye problems..commonly used to check for PRA..Progessive Retinal Atrophy.

Response:

Hi there. I cant remember exactly what it stands for…(someone help out here?) but it is a somethingorother eye foundation (tests for eye/vision problems) Im sure someone else will be able to help more. CERF stands for Canine Eye Registry Foundation. Although not all breeds need to be CERF’d or examined by a canine opthomologist, it is very

Let me expand a tad on CERF, as it works differently from OFA.  In OFA, you have a vet take the xrays and you send those in to OFA for them to evaluate & grade. In contrast, to get a CERF, you have the eyes examined by an ACVO Board Certified Veterinarian.  This examination uses a standard form to fill out that describes the condition of each eye and is signed by the veterinarian performing the examination.  You get a copy, I believe the vet is required to turn her copy in to CERF.  You pay $15-$30 for this examination, depending on where you have it done or if you take advantage of a clinic. Now that you have the form, you can at your option turn it into CERF along with a $7 fee to get a registered number.  This number will go into AKC’s database.  It’s good for a year.  I went the whole shebang earlier this year; I suspect I’ll just get the form done next time (and next, and next…).  Either way is fine…either the breeder can show you a string of CERF numbers or a set of forms (they are all the exact same form used in the US) for each year the dog has been examined.  IN some breeds,t he first examination shoudl be at eight weeks of age and then yearely thereafter.  In many breeds, checking starts  just before breeding and then yearly thereafter. –Cindy —    WAGGERY   U-CD Terrell’s Chocolate Deduction CGC CDX–Hershe   LABRADORS

Response:

Hello, I often see the terms OFA and CERF appearing together. I am familiar with OFA certification. Could anyone give me a detailed explanation of CERF?

CERF stands for Canine Eye Registry Foundation. In the USA, CERF registers dogs that are found to be clear of eye problems by a board certified (AVCO) veterinarian. Dogs need to be cleared yearly as there are some types of eye problems that show up later in life (cataracts, entropion, etc.). Melissa

Response:

Hello, I often see the terms OFA and CERF appearing together. I am familiar with OFA certification. Could anyone give me a detailed explanation of CERF? Thanks, Rick

I think OFA is  Orthopedic somethingerother…for hip dyspasia and CERF is for eyes..cataracts and the like. A breeder told me this. In better detail but I can’t remember them. C. Jackson, her trusty dog Max, and Buie who is waiting at the Rainbow Bridge

Response:

Hi there. I cant remember exactly what it stands for…(someone help out here?) but it is a somethingorother eye foundation (tests for eye/vision problems) Im sure someone else will be able to help more.

CERF stands for Canine Eye Registry Foundation. Although not all breeds need to be CERF’d or examined by a canine opthomologist, it is very important for some breeds. You can check in one of the FAQ’s or a breed book to see if the breed you are interested mentions anything about eye problems. If it does, and you are looking for a puppy, ask to see the latest CERF report on the bitch and the dog being bred. This should be no more than a year or so old…it should be done each and every year of the life of a dog being used or possibly being used for breeding. Puppies should be done, to check on any possible puppy eye problems, and should then be done each year afterwards. It’s abou;$20 a year to do this, and many breed clubs sponsor clinics. Ann, Twzl & Sligo — Anyone who is such a scaredy cccatt that they MAIl their flames to me rather than posting them, will see them posted as a followup to the thread.

Response:

Hello, I often see the terms OFA and CERF appearing together. I am familiar with OFA certification. Could anyone give me a detailed explanation of CERF? Thanks, Rick

Response:

Hello, I often see the terms OFA and CERF appearing together. I am familiar with OFA certification. Could anyone give me a detailed explanation of CERF? Thanks, Rick

Hi there. I cant remember exactly what it stands for…(someone help out here?) but it is a somethingorother eye foundation (tests for eye/vision problems) Im sure someone else will be able to help more. diane

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am superstitious (a bit), so I am following that old adage.  I want to wear something blue somewhere, but I’m not into blue garters, and I’d like the blue to be visible.  If you’d share with me what you’re doing, what you’ve seen, or what you did, I’d appreciate it. Stephanie (who hasn’t found something borrowed either).

Our wedding colors are blue and green.  All the bouquets will be tied with Black Watch plaid ribbon, and I’m hoping to find a necklace that includes aquamarine and peridot or sapphire and emerald (real or faux).  Failing that, I’ll wear a pearl necklace and an aquamarine (my birthstone) ring my Dad gave me for my 18th birthday. Holly (& Ken) 8/25/96

Response:

i have my ’something old and something blue’ all in one.  at my shower last weekend, a friend gave me an antique blue carved-glass necklace.  now, all i need to do is to talk to my mother-in-law about borrowing something.  i want to borrow something from her, because the origin of the custom was to borrow something from the happiest/longest wed woman at the wedding, so that some of her luck would rub off on the bride.  my future in-laws have been married for 40+ years. mermaid <may 12, 1996, only 12 more days!!!

Response:

I am superstitious (a bit), so I am following that old adage.  I want to wear something blue somewhere, but I’m not into blue garters, and I’d like the blue to be visible.  If you’d share with me what you’re doing, what you’ve seen, or what you did, I’d appreciate it. Stephanie (who hasn’t found something borrowed either).

I have an aquamarine ring that I’ve lent to quite a few friends on their wedding days.  Covered both the borrowed and the blue.   venitha

Response:

In the back of one (all?) of the invitation catalogs, they have a little piece that clips to your shoe.  It has a sixpence (or penny or whatever) and a blue ribbon.  Kills two birds with one stone.  

I actually did stick a penny in my shoe, though it was under my big toe  Not this time, well, maybe! Ann

Response:

In the back of one (all?) of the invitation catalogs, they have a little piece that clips to your shoe.  It has a sixpence (or penny or whatever) and a blue ribbon.  Kills two birds with one stone. I actually did stick a penny in my shoe, though it was under my big toe  Not this time, well, maybe! Ann

I did, too.  I think it was around my arch.  I KNOW it was there when I started down the aisle.  I also know that it wasn’t there after the ceremony was over.  Hmmmmm.  Maybe its gone to join all those socks that have disappeared from the drier. Barbara

Response:

*A penny in her shoe: To ensure a life of prosperity.

I thought it was a sixpence in the shoe ?   Thanks for the meanings : ) elaine (march 8 97)

Response:

My friend wore blue underwear!!

Response:

i have my ’something old and something blue’ all in one.  at my shower last weekend, a friend gave me an antique blue carved-glass necklace.  now, all i need to do is to talk to my mother-in-law about borrowing something.  i

As a kinda odd idea that I haven’t heard yet — how about borrowing a Wheatback penny from someone? That covers the old, borrowed and penny parts On the hair issue — it’s all up to her, I don’t care if it is long, short shaved or whatever, no matter where it is located. I just object to stubble On the other hand, I do enjoy the long hair on her head — tickles nice. -Tom the Melaniephile (339 days post-wedding)

Response:

Does nobody recall that I requested VISIBLE blue ideas??  I don’t think this one’s quite gonna work…. Thanks to everybody who’s been responding!  I could bedeck my entire body in blue now…. Stephanie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My friend wore blue underwear!!

Response:

Does nobody recall that I requested VISIBLE blue ideas??  I don’t think this one’s quite gonna work…. Thanks to everybody who’s been responding!  I could bedeck my entire body in blue now…. Stephanie

Does anyohe remember that girl last summer who wrote the newsgroup asking for advice after she had accidently dyed her pubic hairs blue right before her wedding?  SHe apparently was in the bath tub bathing her dog and the canine shampoo had a reaction to her hair.  Since her wedding was right before the fourth of July and she had red hair, I made the suggestion that not only did she have her "something blue" but was quite in theme with her holiday wedding. She later reported back that her new husband found her new hair color   interesting and provocative. | Jeanne  Hinds                 | "Etiquette, after all, is the       | |                               | over the chaos of instinct."        | |                               |   – Judith Martin                   |

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone remember that girl last summer who wrote the newsgroup asking for advice after she had accidently dyed her pubic hairs blue right before her wedding?  SHe apparently was in the bath tub bathing her dog and the canine shampoo had a reaction to her hair.  Since her wedding was right before the fourth of July and she had red hair, I made the suggestion that not only did she have her "something blue" but was quite in theme with her holiday wedding. She later reported back that her new husband found her new hair color   interesting and provocative. | Jeanne  Hinds                 | "Etiquette, after all, is the       | |                               | over the chaos of instinct."        | |                               |   – Judith Martin                   |

  Not only do I remember it, I think I still have a copy of some of the hysterical dialogue that went on about it.  I’ll post it if I find it and someone seems interested.  Let me know. Ranee & Rich 12/31/99 "How many loved your moments of glad grace And loved your beauty, with love false or true But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you And loved the sorrows of your changing face."– W.B. Yeats

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does nobody recall that I requested VISIBLE blue ideas??  I don’t think this one’s quite gonna work…. Thanks to everybody who’s been responding!  I could bedeck my entire body in blue now…. Stephanie Does anyohe remember that girl last summer who wrote the newsgroup asking for advice after she had accidently dyed her pubic hairs blue right before her wedding?  SHe apparently was in the bath tub bathing her dog and the canine shampoo had a reaction to her hair.  Since her wedding was right before the fourth of July and she had red hair, I made the suggestion that not only did she have her "something blue" but was quite in theme with her holiday wedding. She later reported back that her new husband found her new hair color interesting and provocative. | Jeanne  Hinds                 | "Etiquette, after all, is the       | |                               | over the chaos of instinct."        | |                               |   – Judith Martin                   |

I put on the very end of my train.  It was there for people who noticed!

Response:

writes: Does anyohe remember that girl last summer who wrote the newsgroup asking for advice after she had accidently dyed her pubic hairs blue

Yeah, tee hee, that was amusing! I am put in mind of a passage in a best-seller type book I once read in which a man, seeing his new lover undress for the first time, says, "You really ARE a redhead!"  She replies, "What did you think I had down there, blue feathers?" Memorable to me, of course, because I am a redhead.  :-) For those who want NON-visible blue that’s more unusual than a garter, how about a blue-polish pedicure?  Body paint? Holly (& Ken) 8/25/96

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does nobody recall that I requested VISIBLE blue ideas??  I don’t think this one’s quite gonna work…. Thanks to everybody who’s been responding!  I could bedeck my entire body in blue now…. Stephanie Does anyohe remember that girl last summer who wrote the newsgroup asking for advice after she had accidently dyed her pubic hairs blue right before her wedding?  SHe apparently was in the bath tub bathing her dog and the canine shampoo had a reaction to her hair.  Since her wedding was right before the fourth of July and she had red hair, I made the suggestion that not only did she have her "something blue" but was quite in theme with her holiday wedding. She later reported back that her new husband found her new hair color interesting and provocative. | Jeanne  Hinds                 | "Etiquette, after all, is the       | |                               | over the chaos of instinct."        | |                               |   – Judith Martin                   |

Would the person who said hey still have it (Ranee?) please post it?  Sounds like a good laugh . . . Deirdre and David 8/9/96

Response:

I am superstitious (a bit), so I am following that old adage.  I want to wear something blue somewhere, but I’m not into blue garters, and I’d like the blue to be visible.  If you’d share with me what you’re doing, what you’ve seen, or what you did, I’d appreciate it. Stephanie (who hasn’t found something borrowed either). I have an aquamarine ring that I’ve lent to quite a few friends on their wedding days.  Covered both the borrowed and the blue.   venitha

I’ve incorporated navy ribbons on my dress after copying a vera wang dress and my veil will have navy trim… bridesmaids are wearing cynthia rowley sundresses in a navy gingham

Response:

How about blue-colored jewelry (aquamarine, sapphire, or blue topaz)? That’s what I’m doing. Laurel and Jack, 5/25/96

Response:

How about blue-colored jewelry (aquamarine, sapphire, or blue topaz)? That’s what I’m doing. Laurel and Jack, 5/25/96

I’m going to wear blue toe-nail polish! Mandy (& Mark) Oct. 4, 1996 — Auraelius

Response:

How about blue-colored jewelry (aquamarine, sapphire, or blue topaz)? That’s what I’m doing. Laurel and Jack, 5/25/96 I’m going to wear blue toe-nail polish!

I thought of ordering baby blue satin ballet slippers to wear for the ceremony… Pam and Rob 08/23/97

Response:

I am superstitious (a bit), so I am following that old adage.  I want to wear something blue somewhere, but I’m not into blue garters, and I’d like the blue to be visible.  If you’d share with me what you’re doing, what you’ve seen, or what you did, I’d appreciate it. Stephanie (who hasn’t found something borrowed either).

Response:

: I am superstitious (a bit), so I am following that old adage.  I want : to wear something blue somewhere, but I’m not into blue garters, and : I’d like the blue to be visible.  If you’d share with me what you’re : doing, what you’ve seen, or what you did, I’d appreciate it.         My wedding colors were blue & white anyway, so I had blue flowers in my bouquet and blue trim on my veil to qualify. Shannon — Shannon W. Sudderth "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." — Thomas Jefferson Censorship is the easy way out.

Response:

I am superstitious (a bit), so I am following that old adage.  I want to wear something blue somewhere, but I’m not into blue garters, and I’d like the blue to be visible.  If you’d share with me what you’re doing, what you’ve seen, or what you did, I’d appreciate it. Stephanie (who hasn’t found something borrowed either).

How about blue sapphire earings, or bracelet or pendant? Or blue topaz? Jenna http://www.tiac.net/users/jsteele/flora

Response:

I am superstitious (a bit), so I am following that old adage.  I want to wear something blue somewhere, but I’m not into blue garters, and I’d like the blue to be visible.  If you’d share with me what you’re doing, what you’ve seen, or what you did, I’d appreciate it. Stephanie (who hasn’t found something borrowed either).

Stephanie, I got borrowed and blue all in one.  For my first wedding 12 years ago, I wore an incredibly beautiful pearl necklace with a several carat Sapphire piece that floated over it, rather like a pendant.   Ann

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am superstitious (a bit), so I am following that old adage.  I want to wear something blue somewhere, but I’m not into blue garters, and I’d like the blue to be visible.  If you’d share with me what you’re doing, what you’ve seen, or what you did, I’d appreciate it. Stephanie (who hasn’t found something borrowed either). Stephanie, I got borrowed and blue all in one.  For my first wedding 12 years ago, I wore an incredibly beautiful pearl necklace with a several carat Sapphire piece that floated over it, rather like a pendant. Ann

I wore the garter.  I hadn’t planned to, but it appeared at my bachelorette party, so I figured, why not?  :- In the back of one (all?) of the invitation catalogs, they have a little piece that clips to your shoe.  It has a sixpence (or penny or whatever) and a blue ribbon.  Kills two birds with one stone.  You could also tie or sew a blue ribbon inside your dress.  Or, if you put your hair up, use a blue rubberband (I did this, in case I forgot the garter).  If all else fails, blue nail polish is really in style this season.  How about blue toe nails? Barbara

Response:

RE: Something blue… I’d like to give you the meaning of the various items associated with with this old rhyme. These talismans have come to us from centuries’ old tradition and superstition.   *Something old: Wearing or carrying something old provides us with a sense of continutiy. The past flowing gently into the future. *Something new: Usually the bride’s clothes, giving a sense of optimism. *Something borrowed: The old adage is that happiness rubs off. *Something blue: (You’re going to love this one <g). Blue is the color of purity, fidelity and love. It is also the color associated with the Virgin Mary. *A penny in her shoe: To ensure a life of prosperity. All the best, Deb McCoy, "Author, "For the Bride" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am superstitious (a bit), so I am following that old adage.  I want to wear something blue somewhere, but I’m not into blue garters, and I’d like the blue to be visible.  If you’d share with me what you’re doing, what you’ve seen, or what you did, I’d appreciate it. Stephanie (who hasn’t found something borrowed either). I have an aquamarine ring that I’ve lent to quite a few friends on their wedding days.  Covered both the borrowed and the blue. venitha

Response:

Question:

Reading through some of the previous posts, I discovered some hints to women giving the men they will marry something that represents this promise, like an engagement ring only obviously for men.  Has anyone done this… what was done… any ideas on any traditions in these parts.  I mean, I am male myself and I’m just curious what may happen these days on that side of the street.  Any ideas out there?

My now-husband wore his now-wedding ring on his right hand during our engagement. We had it made with the same stones in my engagement ring, and he wanted something to show his promise to me. We considered a second ring, but he couldn’t imagine wearing two rings after we were married, and this solution seemed good to him. A week before the wedding, we took both rings in to be polished up, and didn’t put them back on until the wedding. He now wears the ring on his left hand. Best wishes! Sami

Response:

: Reading through some of the previous posts, I discovered some hints to women : giving the men they will marry something that represents this promise, like : an engagement ring only obviously for men.  Has anyone done this… what was : done… any ideas on any traditions in these parts.  I mean, I am male : myself and I’m just curious what may happen these days on that side of the : street.  Any ideas out there? :       For my husband and myself, it was important for us to : symbolize an equal sharing in the commitment (not that one of : us would have been less involved without the symbol, we just : wanted it that way).  He really wanted us to have identical : rings.  Originally, we had a Claddagh ring made for me (with : ruby heart and tiny diamonds across the base of the crown) : that I wore as an engagement ring and he was to receive an : identical ring at the wedding.  Then, at the jewelers that : made the first ring, I saw an example of a Claddagh ring that : had been split–the hands and heard were one ring and the crown : was on a separate thin band of its own.  So I decided to surprise : him (he lived several states away, so sneaking around was easy : I had my ring separated and had them start work on his ring. : When Christmas came around, I gave him the hands and heart ring : for an engagement ring of his own.  Then we both received the : crown ring at the wedding.  (I was quite amused by the new : symbolism of the ring–love and friendship at the engagement, : loyalty at the wedding :       Anyway, it worked out quite well for us.  He was *very* : surprised to get his engagement ring.  (We would have loved for : both of us to get our rings at the same time, but we didn’t have : the money to make both rings at once.) : Ericka What a cool idea!!! i am impressed by the symbolism too!! -Kim

Response:

| Reading through some of the previous posts, I discovered some hints to women | giving the men they will marry something that represents this promise, like | an engagement ring only obviously for men.  Has anyone done this… what was | done… any ideas on any traditions in these parts.  I mean, I am male | myself and I’m just curious what may happen these days on that side of the | street.  Any ideas out there? I bought an engagement ring for my fiance. We hadn’t really planned on it or discussed it or whatever, but when we were shopping for my engagement ring, he started to look at men’s rings, too. My attitude was Sure! Why should I be the only one to get a ring!? So, I got a solitaire diamond (1/2 carat) on a plain gold band, and he got a (smaller, about 1/3 carat) in a wider gold band with a flat squarish top — the diamond was sort of recessed in the top so the top of the diamond was flush with the flat gold topface of the ring. Kind of hard to describe, I don’t think I did it justice there… As for traditions; I don’t know of any other men with engagement rings, but no one seemed too shocked when we showed them his ring; most people seemed a little surprised, maybe amused, and liked the idea. Kim P.S. When we get married in June he’s planning on moving the engagement ring to his right hand, and wear the wedding band on his left hand… — Kim Kvech — Software Support — Thinking Machines | *The Paladin* |   * Kyle * | | | |+Luke 12:48+   +Matthew 16:3-4+   +1 Cor. 13:13+   +Revelation 19:1+| | |                                                                    | | |              The opinions expressed herein are correct             |

Response:

Hee! Me again.  When we got engaged, I gave my fiance a silver lattice-work ring, very plain, that I had owned and worn myself for several years.  I was hoping it would fit his finger, but it was too small, so I bought him a silver chain which he wears it on.  It means a lot to both of us since it was something that I used to wear a lot, and I don’t think he would have let me buy him a new piece of "engagement" jewelry. Mary

Response:

Reading through some of the previous posts, I discovered some hints to women giving the men they will marry something that represents this promise, like an engagement ring only obviously for men.  Has anyone done this… what was done… any ideas on any traditions in these parts.  I mean, I am male myself and I’m just curious what may happen these days on that side of the street.  Any ideas out there?

        For my husband and myself, it was important for us to symbolize an equal sharing in the commitment (not that one of us would have been less involved without the symbol, we just wanted it that way).  He really wanted us to have identical rings.  Originally, we had a Claddagh ring made for me (with ruby heart and tiny diamonds across the base of the crown) that I wore as an engagement ring and he was to receive an identical ring at the wedding.  Then, at the jewelers that made the first ring, I saw an example of a Claddagh ring that had been split–the hands and heard were one ring and the crown was on a separate thin band of its own.  So I decided to surprise him (he lived several states away, so sneaking around was easy I had my ring separated and had them start work on his ring. When Christmas came around, I gave him the hands and heart ring for an engagement ring of his own.  Then we both received the crown ring at the wedding.  (I was quite amused by the new symbolism of the ring–love and friendship at the engagement, loyalty at the wedding         Anyway, it worked out quite well for us.  He was *very* surprised to get his engagement ring.  (We would have loved for both of us to get our rings at the same time, but we didn’t have the money to make both rings at once.) Ericka

Response:

Reading through some of the previous posts, I discovered some hints to women giving the men they will marry something that represents this promise, like an engagement ring only obviously for men.  Has anyone done this… what was done… any ideas on any traditions in these parts.  I mean, I am male myself and I’m just curious what may happen these days on that side of the street.  Any ideas out there? *The Paladin*   * Kyle * |+Luke 12:48+   +Matthew 16:3-4+   +1 Cor. 13:13+   +Revelation 19:1+| |                                                                    | |              The opinions expressed herein are correct             |

Response: