Question:

pdfjo…@yahoo.com (Marlow) wrote in news:b79c52e4.0406151834.707932a1@posting.google.com:

The main trend I’ve noticed is that shy guys don’t like taking chances with anything, and this extends to their appearance.  So they end up making the safest choices with everything and they end up looking…you guessed it, conservative and boring. Marlow

Beards aren’t all that conservative.  Might spot you as either a lawyer, a doctor, or a loser, though. — "So what’s it like being Jewish?" "What’s it like being human?" "Well it’s no cake-walk." (Hill Street Blues)

Response:

pdfjo…@yahoo.com (Marlow) wrote in news:b79c52e4.0406151834.707932a1 @posting.google.com: Thanks for the post!  I have the luxury of not caring what I look like   right now because I’ve suckered a poor girl into staying with me for my personality, though.  (At least she figured out after a couple months that I wasn’t really nice.)

Most of the pictures of shy guys I’ve seen look ultra conservative. Basically nothing stands out.  Here’s a few ideas I have on the subject… If you have a beard, shave it off.  Period.  Goatees are ok if you have a really weak chin like I do, but if you don’t then shave it off completely.

In my experience, there are more women that really don’t like facial hair than women who really like it, so yeah, I’d say this is good advice.

Glasses.  Consider getting contact lenses if you can stand them.  If this isn’t an option for you, get some cool, trendy looking frames. Work up the nerve to ask for help on this one at the optomitrist.  If you can’t afford the $200 or so really nice looking frames might cost you, then get a second job to save up the money.  It’s that important. Your face is the first thing people see, if you’re wearing outdated giant gold wire frames, then that’s what people see first. Blue Jeans.  If you’re wearing cheap ass blue jeans every day, then that’s just boring.  Either spend the money to buy good designer jeans, or wear some other kind of pants.  Blue jeans are boring.

I think this is regional.  In my home city, everyone wears ordinary blue jeans.  In Metro Toronto, I don’t see them much at all on men. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Jewelry.  Wear some.  Like some interesting silver rings, or a black string necklass with a couple of beads on it (probably stay away from gold).  One or two pieces of jewelry is plenty, don’t overdo it.  Also consider getting an ear ring. Tattoos.  I don’t personally have any, but getting one or two is a good idea.  This makes you look less conservative and boring. Shirts.  Don’t tuck them in if you don’t have to.  Try to avoid things that either don’t fit right, are wrinkled, or are conservative and boring. Belt.  Wear one. Shoes.  Tennis shoes every day is boring.  Buy some cool looking shoes.  I personally like the ones that resemble bowling shoes.

Yeah, they’ll look silly like bell-bottom trousers in three years, but people like them now.

Hair.  I’ve grown mine out long, and the results have been pretty good.  A lot of girls don’t like guys with long hair, but the one’s that do like long hair REALLY like it. If you don’t want to go with the long hair, then try to find a style that’s not conservative and boring.  A good way to do this is to save up the money (once again it’s worth it to get a second job for a little while to do this if you need to) and go to a gay hairdresser in a trendy hair salon and ask for his help.  Tell him you don’t want anything that’s too conservative and boring.  He should be able to show you pictures of differant styles to help you find something that you like. The main trend I’ve noticed is that shy guys don’t like taking chances with anything, and this extends to their appearance.  So they end up making the safest choices with everything and they end up looking…you guessed it, conservative and boring.

I’ve become a believer that it’s perfectly okay to be outwardly boring to quite a few women, as long as I’m really comfortable with it.  It’s not like I want to go out partying more than very very occasionally anyway, so my looks might as well reflect the product:)

Response:

Dressing well but not remarkably also gives a girl a project once you’ve found her, you have no idea how much we get off on changing men.

Meanwhile women say that they want a man who will accept them for the way they are.

It’s a serious power trip.

That’s the problem.

Response:

In article <b79c52e4.0406151834.70793…@posting.google.com

,

pdfjo…@yahoo.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Most of the pictures of shy guys I’ve seen look ultra conservative. Basically nothing stands out.  Here’s a few ideas I have on the subject… If you have a beard, shave it off.  Period.  Goatees are ok if you have a really weak chin like I do, but if you don’t then shave it off completely. Glasses.  Consider getting contact lenses if you can stand them.  If this isn’t an option for you, get some cool, trendy looking frames. Work up the nerve to ask for help on this one at the optomitrist.  If you can’t afford the $200 or so really nice looking frames might cost you, then get a second job to save up the money.  It’s that important. Your face is the first thing people see, if you’re wearing outdated giant gold wire frames, then that’s what people see first. Blue Jeans.  If you’re wearing cheap ass blue jeans every day, then that’s just boring.  Either spend the money to buy good designer jeans, or wear some other kind of pants.  Blue jeans are boring. Jewelry.  Wear some.  Like some interesting silver rings, or a black string necklass with a couple of beads on it (probably stay away from gold).  One or two pieces of jewelry is plenty, don’t overdo it.  Also consider getting an ear ring. Tattoos.  I don’t personally have any, but getting one or two is a good idea.  This makes you look less conservative and boring. Shirts.  Don’t tuck them in if you don’t have to.  Try to avoid things that either don’t fit right, are wrinkled, or are conservative and boring. Belt.  Wear one. Shoes.  Tennis shoes every day is boring.  Buy some cool looking shoes.  I personally like the ones that resemble bowling shoes. Hair.  I’ve grown mine out long, and the results have been pretty good.  A lot of girls don’t like guys with long hair, but the one’s that do like long hair REALLY like it. If you don’t want to go with the long hair, then try to find a style that’s not conservative and boring.  A good way to do this is to save up the money (once again it’s worth it to get a second job for a little while to do this if you need to) and go to a gay hairdresser in a trendy hair salon and ask for his help.  Tell him you don’t want anything that’s too conservative and boring.  He should be able to show you pictures of differant styles to help you find something that you like. The main trend I’ve noticed is that shy guys don’t like taking chances with anything, and this extends to their appearance.  So they end up making the safest choices with everything and they end up looking…you guessed it, conservative and boring. Marlow

I think the main thing is to look put together and not wear old ragged clothes to work. One of the managers here has the classic nerd Bill Gates look but he still has a current hair style and even though he doesn’t dress up much, he still wears modern clothes that look put together. His glasses are a modern style too. Now there are a couple other managers who don’t have the nerd appearance and they dress up at work. Not a suit, but a suit type shirt and usually a tie.

Response:

Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk

wrote in

news:BCF64E19.10AFB%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk:

On 16 Jun 2004 03:36:47 GMT, Shelob <m…@privacy.net wrote: Dressing well but not remarkably also gives a girl a project once you’ve found her, you have no idea how much we get off on changing men.  It’s a serious power trip. I missed this earlier. No. No. No. Changing someone once you’ve found them! What’s the point? If they’re what you want then why change them? If they’re not what you want then that’s a given you shouldn’t want to change them. People can develop and change if they want to (mildly) but picking someone out with the intention of changing them is a non-starter (think Pygmalion). And it wouldn’t give me a thrill at all, I like to submit anyway so I’m not into power trips.

Did I say it was right? Like it or not (and personally understand it or not), a lot of women do get off on it.  I’m just being honest about it. Personally, my guy still wears his geeky shirts, glasses, walmart jeans, etc. I’ve not changed a thing about his looks. *shrug*

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shelob wrote:

Solitary Soul <solitarysoulNOS…@ev1.net wrote in news:m9v0d015q9pvnf8v77rosc8601n62hobth@4ax.com: On 16 Jun 2004 03:36:47 GMT, Shelob <m…@privacy.net wrote: pdfjo…@yahoo.com (Marlow) wrote in news:b79c52e4.0406151834.707932a1 @posting.google.com: Tattoos.  I don’t personally have any, but getting one or two is a good idea.  This makes you look less conservative and boring. They make you look like a branded cow. Hummm … who was it that was chastising me for comparing women to cows? Hummm … Did I say male or female here? We’re not talking a person’s natural body makeup here, we’re talking about a mark they’re intentionally making on their skin and its likeness to marks made on livestock – not even a body comparison, but a comparison of the markings.  Totally different than the large-breasted-woman=moooo thing. Shirts.  Don’t tuck them in if you don’t have to.  Try to avoid things that either don’t fit right, are wrinkled, or are conservative and boring. A lot of women are conservative and boring, seeking same. Really? Where the hell do I find them? Churches, libraries, etc.  

Women in libraries are often anything but boring. -M

Response:

Solitary Soul <solitarysoulNOS…@ev1.net

wrote in

news:m9v0d015q9pvnf8v77rosc8601n62hobth@4ax.com:

On 16 Jun 2004 03:36:47 GMT, Shelob <m…@privacy.net wrote: pdfjo…@yahoo.com (Marlow) wrote in news:b79c52e4.0406151834.707932a1 @posting.google.com: Tattoos.  I don’t personally have any, but getting one or two is a good idea.  This makes you look less conservative and boring. They make you look like a branded cow. Hummm … who was it that was chastising me for comparing women to

cows?

Hummm …

Did I say male or female here? We’re not talking a person’s natural body makeup here, we’re talking about a mark they’re intentionally making on their skin and its likeness to marks made on livestock – not even a body comparison, but a comparison of the markings.  Totally different than the large-breasted-woman=moooo thing.

Shirts.  Don’t tuck them in if you don’t have to.  Try to avoid

things

that either don’t fit right, are wrinkled, or are conservative and boring. A lot of women are conservative and boring, seeking same. Really? Where the hell do I find them?

Churches, libraries, etc.  

A naturally conservative man in a funky trendy hairstyle can look painful. Wear whatever style suits you, your lifestyle, and your face. Mebbe I should shave my head.

Knock yourself out.

Response:

Solitary Soul <solitarysoulNOS…@ev1.net

wrote in

news:m9v0d015q9pvnf8v77rosc8601n62hobth@4ax.com:

There’s nothing wrong with looking conservative and "boring".  Far more important are good fit and occasion-appropriate clothing.  None of the men I’ve ever been attracted to have been fashion mavens.  Dressing well but not remarkably also gives a girl a project once you’ve found her, you have no idea how much we get off on changing men.  It’s a serious power trip. Any girl that would have anything to do with me would have a MAJOR reclamation project on her hands. It would take her years.

Dammit dude, I feel so sorrrrry for you.

Response:

On 16 Jun 2004 03:36:47 GMT, Shelob <m…@privacy.net wrote: Dressing well but not remarkably also gives a girl a project once you’ve found her, you have no idea how much we get off on changing men.  It’s a serious power trip.

I missed this earlier. No. No. No. Changing someone once you’ve found them! What’s the point? If they’re what you want then why change them? If they’re not what you want then that’s a given you shouldn’t want to change them. People can develop and change if they want to (mildly) but picking someone out with the intention of changing them is a non-starter (think Pygmalion). And it wouldn’t give me a thrill at all, I like to submit anyway so I’m not into power trips.

Solitary Soul’s post: Any girl that would have anything to do with me would have a MAJOR reclamation project on her hands. It would take her years.

You’re probably fine as you are.

Response:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:39:44 -0500, Alan <maxpo…@mycompany.com

wrote: Women do like "bold" men.  They seem more interesting.  I shaved my head and now women are all over me like slop on a pig.

I’m thinking about doing that (shaving my head) – if for no other reason than to save me the bother of combing my hair. Solitary Soul -

http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/

—————————————————– Everyone has SOME sort of a defect – nobody’s perfect. The trick is to understand the nature of your own defects, and to be able to understand the nature of other people’s defects, and how best to deal with them.                                         – Solitary Soul

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Solitary Soul wrote:

On 16 Jun 2004 03:36:47 GMT, Shelob <m…@privacy.net wrote: pdfjo…@yahoo.com (Marlow) wrote in news:b79c52e4.0406151834.707932a1 @posting.google.com: Tattoos.  I don’t personally have any, but getting one or two is a good idea.  This makes you look less conservative and boring. They make you look like a branded cow. Hummm … who was it that was chastising me for comparing women to cows? Hummm … Shirts.  Don’t tuck them in if you don’t have to.  Try to avoid things that either don’t fit right, are wrinkled, or are conservative and boring. A lot of women are conservative and boring, seeking same. Really? Where the hell do I find them?

Churches, preferably fundamentalist. -M

Response:

On 16 Jun 2004 03:36:47 GMT, Shelob <m…@privacy.net

wrote: pdfjo…@yahoo.com (Marlow) wrote in news:b79c52e4.0406151834.707932a1 @posting.google.com: Tattoos.  I don’t personally have any, but getting one or two is a good idea.  This makes you look less conservative and boring. They make you look like a branded cow.

Hummm … who was it that was chastising me for comparing women to cows? Hummm …

Shirts.  Don’t tuck them in if you don’t have to.  Try to avoid things that either don’t fit right, are wrinkled, or are conservative and boring. A lot of women are conservative and boring, seeking same.

Really? Where the hell do I find them?

Hair.  I’ve grown mine out long, and the results have been pretty good.  A lot of girls don’t like guys with long hair, but the one’s that do like long hair REALLY like it. If you don’t want to go with the long hair, then try to find a style that’s not conservative and boring.  A good way to do this is to save up the money (once again it’s worth it to get a second job for a little while to do this if you need to) and go to a gay hairdresser in a trendy hair salon and ask for his help.  Tell him you don’t want anything that’s too conservative and boring.  He should be able to show you pictures of differant styles to help you find something that you like. A naturally conservative man in a funky trendy hairstyle can look painful. Wear whatever style suits you, your lifestyle, and your face.

Mebbe I should shave my head.

The main trend I’ve noticed is that shy guys don’t like taking chances with anything, and this extends to their appearance.  So they end up making the safest choices with everything and they end up looking…you guessed it, conservative and boring. There’s nothing wrong with looking conservative and "boring".  Far more important are good fit and occasion-appropriate clothing.  None of the men I’ve ever been attracted to have been fashion mavens.  Dressing well but not remarkably also gives a girl a project once you’ve found her, you have no idea how much we get off on changing men.  It’s a serious power trip.

Any girl that would have anything to do with me would have a MAJOR reclamation project on her hands. It would take her years. Solitary Soul -

http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/

—————————————————– Everyone has SOME sort of a defect – nobody’s perfect. The trick is to understand the nature of your own defects, and to be able to understand the nature of other people’s defects, and how best to deal with them.                                         – Solitary Soul

Response:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:11:41 +1000, Kirin <f…@email.com

wrote: The main trend I’ve noticed is that shy guys don’t like taking chances with anything, and this extends to their appearance.  So they end up making the safest choices with everything and they end up looking…you guessed it, conservative and boring. A boring person in interesting clothes is still a boring person. The appearance might as well be consistent with the personality.

My thoughts exactly. If you look boring, but you are an interesting person underneath the boring veneer, then a make-over might be the thing to do. If you are a boring person, through and through, then it would be a complete waste of time, effort, and money. Solitary Soul -

http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/

—————————————————– Everyone has SOME sort of a defect – nobody’s perfect. The trick is to understand the nature of your own defects, and to be able to understand the nature of other people’s defects, and how best to deal with them.                                         – Solitary Soul

Response:

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 05:37:09 GMT, William P <will(dot)p…@sympatico.ca

wrote:

pdfjo…@yahoo.com (Marlow) wrote in news:b79c52e4.0406151834.707932a1 @posting.google.com: The main trend I’ve noticed is that shy guys don’t like taking chances with anything, and this extends to their appearance.  So they end up making the safest choices with everything and they end up looking…you guessed it, conservative and boring. I’ve become a believer that it’s perfectly okay to be outwardly boring to quite a few women, as long as I’m really comfortable with it.  It’s not like I want to go out partying more than very very occasionally anyway, so my looks might as well reflect the product:)

Yes, outwardly boring is fine if metrosexual makes you cringe (it makes me cringe). If the beard’s long enough to resemble pubic hair, though, it’s time for a change. lm

Response:

"Marlow" <pdfjo…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:b79c52e4.0406151834.707932a1@posting.google.com…

Most of the pictures of shy guys I’ve seen look ultra conservative. Basically nothing stands out.  Here’s a few ideas I have on the subject… If you have a beard, shave it off.  Period.  Goatees are ok if you have a really weak chin like I do, but if you don’t then shave it off completely.

I’m not keen on really close shaves – a bit of stubble never did brad pitt any harm!

Glasses.  Consider getting contact lenses if you can stand them.  If this isn’t an option for you, get some cool, trendy looking frames. Work up the nerve to ask for help on this one at the optomitrist.  If you can’t afford the $200 or so really nice looking frames might cost you, then get a second job to save up the money.

$200 is only just over

Question:

Donald, When your rich like that you need to learn if your going to fly it, float it, or fuccck it, RENT IT. What a fool… "Ablang" <HilaryDuff05152…@ablang-duff.com

wrote in message

news:4ddda09bi70v6gmlu11r2fl5pprfr23fri@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

< The prenup seems like a good idea in his case. Donald Trump to marry again NEW YORK (CNN/Money) — He’s got the money, new fame from his hit reality TV show, and now Donald Trump is getting a wife. After two marriages ended in high-profile divorces, the billionaire star of high rating U.S. TV show, NBC’s "The Apprentice," proposed to his model girlfriend Melania Knauss, CNNfn confirmed Thursday. The New York Post reported that Trump gave a blinding diamond engagement ring to the 33-year-old Slovenian native at a party Monday at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, but it went unnoticed by other guests. Trump, with a net worth of $2.5 billion and ranked as the world’s 205th richest person by Forbes, would likely insist on a prenuptial with his model fiance, the paper added. "The Donald," as he’s called by tabloids, married his first wife Ivana in 1977. The marriage ended in a very public divorce after nearly 15 years. The divorce of his second wife, Marla Maples, also grabbed a lot of media attention. The 57-year-old Trump shares three children with Ivana Marie Zelnickova and one daughter with Marla Maples. The Post said no date has yet been set for the wedding. Riding the success of "Apprentice," Trump will also host a national radio show, Clear Channel, the broadcasting company that will air the show, said Wednesday. The weekday show, called "Trumped," will span business and non-business topics, including the real estate mogul’s thoughts on the media and entertainment world as well as politics. Clear Channel said it expects to launch the radio show June 15, while NBC told CNN/Money that the second season of "The Apprentice" will begin sometime in the fall. http://edition.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/04/29/trump.wedding/ == "You make a living by what you get, you make a life by what you give."      – Winston Churchill

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Jerry" <Je…@yahoo.co.uk

wrote in message <news:fpMpc.86$JL5.9@newsfe1-win… Donald, When your rich like that you need to learn if your going to fly it, float it, or fuccck it, RENT IT. What a fool… "Ablang" <HilaryDuff05152…@ablang-duff.com wrote in message news:4ddda09bi70v6gmlu11r2fl5pprfr23fri@4ax.com… < The prenup seems like a good idea in his case. Donald Trump to marry again NEW YORK (CNN/Money) — He’s got the money, new fame from his hit reality TV show, and now Donald Trump is getting a wife. After two marriages ended in high-profile divorces, the billionaire star of high rating U.S. TV show, NBC’s "The Apprentice," proposed to his model girlfriend Melania Knauss, CNNfn confirmed Thursday. The New York Post reported that Trump gave a blinding diamond engagement ring to the 33-year-old Slovenian native at a party Monday at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, but it went unnoticed by other guests. Trump, with a net worth of $2.5 billion and ranked as the world’s 205th richest person by Forbes, would likely insist on a prenuptial with his model fiance, the paper added. "The Donald," as he’s called by tabloids, married his first wife Ivana in 1977. The marriage ended in a very public divorce after nearly 15 years. The divorce of his second wife, Marla Maples, also grabbed a lot of media attention. The 57-year-old Trump shares three children with Ivana Marie Zelnickova and one daughter with Marla Maples. The Post said no date has yet been set for the wedding. Riding the success of "Apprentice," Trump will also host a national radio show, Clear Channel, the broadcasting company that will air the show, said Wednesday. The weekday show, called "Trumped," will span business and non-business topics, including the real estate mogul’s thoughts on the media and entertainment world as well as politics. Clear Channel said it expects to launch the radio show June 15, while NBC told CNN/Money that the second season of "The Apprentice" will begin sometime in the fall. http://edition.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/04/29/trump.wedding/ == "You make a living by what you get, you make a life by what you give."      – Winston Churchill

Why not post this in alt.support.who.gives.a.shit.?

Response:

Ablang wrote:

   < The prenup seems like a good idea in his case. Donald Trump to marry again NEW YORK (CNN/Money) — He’s got the money, new fame from his hit reality TV show, and now Donald Trump is getting a wife. After two marriages ended in high-profile divorces, the billionaire star of high rating U.S. TV show, NBC’s "The Apprentice," proposed to his model girlfriend Melania Knauss, CNNfn confirmed Thursday.

Will he never learn? Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

The New York Post reported that Trump gave a blinding diamond engagement ring to the 33-year-old Slovenian native at a party Monday at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, but it went unnoticed by other guests. Trump, with a net worth of $2.5 billion and ranked as the world’s 205th richest person by Forbes, would likely insist on a prenuptial with his model fiance, the paper added. "The Donald," as he’s called by tabloids, married his first wife Ivana in 1977. The marriage ended in a very public divorce after nearly 15 years. The divorce of his second wife, Marla Maples, also grabbed a lot of media attention. The 57-year-old Trump shares three children with Ivana Marie Zelnickova and one daughter with Marla Maples. The Post said no date has yet been set for the wedding. Riding the success of "Apprentice," Trump will also host a national radio show, Clear Channel, the broadcasting company that will air the show, said Wednesday. The weekday show, called "Trumped," will span business and non-business topics, including the real estate mogul’s thoughts on the media and entertainment world as well as politics. Clear Channel said it expects to launch the radio show June 15, while NBC told CNN/Money that the second season of "The Apprentice" will begin sometime in the fall. http://edition.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/04/29/trump.wedding/ == "You make a living by what you get, you make a life by what you give."      – Winston Churchill

— When did we divide into sides? "As president, I will put American government and our legal system back on the side of women."  John Kerry, misandrist Democratic candidate for President. http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/women/ [Bob does not advocate any illegal, seditious, or immoral acts.  All posts are for discussion, rhetorical, or humorous purposes only.]

Response:

"Ablang" <HilaryDuff05152…@ablang-duff.com

wrote in message

news:4ddda09bi70v6gmlu11r2fl5pprfr23fri@4ax.com…

< The prenup seems like a good idea in his case. Donald Trump to marry again NEW YORK (CNN/Money) — He’s got the money, new fame from his hit reality TV show, and now Donald Trump is getting a wife.

==what, again? It’s only been 3 weeks since he proposed to the last one.

Response:

Ablang, what are you doing posting about a 57 yr old man and a 33 yr old woman?  I thought you lost interest after they turn 18. On Sat, 15 May 2004 17:29:29 -0700, Ablang – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<HilaryDuff05152…@ablang-duff.com

wrote:    < The prenup seems like a good idea in his case. Donald Trump to marry again NEW YORK (CNN/Money) — He’s got the money, new fame from his hit reality TV show, and now Donald Trump is getting a wife. After two marriages ended in high-profile divorces, the billionaire star of high rating U.S. TV show, NBC’s "The Apprentice," proposed to his model girlfriend Melania Knauss, CNNfn confirmed Thursday. The New York Post reported that Trump gave a blinding diamond engagement ring to the 33-year-old Slovenian native at a party Monday at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, but it went unnoticed by other guests. Trump, with a net worth of $2.5 billion and ranked as the world’s 205th richest person by Forbes, would likely insist on a prenuptial with his model fiance, the paper added. "The Donald," as he’s called by tabloids, married his first wife Ivana in 1977. The marriage ended in a very public divorce after nearly 15 years. The divorce of his second wife, Marla Maples, also grabbed a lot of media attention. The 57-year-old Trump shares three children with Ivana Marie Zelnickova and one daughter with Marla Maples. The Post said no date has yet been set for the wedding. Riding the success of "Apprentice," Trump will also host a national radio show, Clear Channel, the broadcasting company that will air the show, said Wednesday. The weekday show, called "Trumped," will span business and non-business topics, including the real estate mogul’s thoughts on the media and entertainment world as well as politics. Clear Channel said it expects to launch the radio show June 15, while NBC told CNN/Money that the second season of "The Apprentice" will begin sometime in the fall. http://edition.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/04/29/trump.wedding/ == "You make a living by what you get, you make a life by what you give."     — Winston Churchill

Response:

        < The prenup seems like a good idea in his case.

Donald Trump to marry again NEW YORK (CNN/Money) — He’s got the money, new fame from his hit reality TV show, and now Donald Trump is getting a wife. After two marriages ended in high-profile divorces, the billionaire star of high rating U.S. TV show, NBC’s "The Apprentice," proposed to his model girlfriend Melania Knauss, CNNfn confirmed Thursday. The New York Post reported that Trump gave a blinding diamond engagement ring to the 33-year-old Slovenian native at a party Monday at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, but it went unnoticed by other guests. Trump, with a net worth of $2.5 billion and ranked as the world’s 205th richest person by Forbes, would likely insist on a prenuptial with his model fiance, the paper added. "The Donald," as he’s called by tabloids, married his first wife Ivana in 1977. The marriage ended in a very public divorce after nearly 15 years. The divorce of his second wife, Marla Maples, also grabbed a lot of media attention. The 57-year-old Trump shares three children with Ivana Marie Zelnickova and one daughter with Marla Maples. The Post said no date has yet been set for the wedding. Riding the success of "Apprentice," Trump will also host a national radio show, Clear Channel, the broadcasting company that will air the show, said Wednesday. The weekday show, called "Trumped," will span business and non-business topics, including the real estate mogul’s thoughts on the media and entertainment world as well as politics. Clear Channel said it expects to launch the radio show June 15, while NBC told CNN/Money that the second season of "The Apprentice" will begin sometime in the fall. http://edition.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/04/29/trump.wedding/ == "You make a living by what you get, you make a life by what you give."      – Winston Churchill

Response:

Question:

Oh, Vanessa, you are the loveliest!  Hope you are doing well.  I miss you! Love, Vicki

Hey Vic, Thanks for your sweet words. Sorry I haven’t been around much lately and do miss you heaps as well. I’m still catching up on posts but it sounds like you are doing well recently. Vanessa — The charter is available at:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know it’s funny. I’ve always found it annoying when other women felt compelled to knock me out to show me their rock. OOOOOOh, I love rubies. I’d considered it as well for my engagement ring. Basically it came down to wanting to be sure where my "rock" came from and some other considerations as well. I think most of the "it must be a big honkin’ rock or nobody will think you’re a stud" stuff comes from the diamond industry; but what do I know? That and Marylin Monroe…..I should say that my fiance doesn’t go around pointing out the ring because he wants to be a stud. We both think its really beautiful and we’re just so happy to have everyone know we’re getting hitched!

Just as likely, from Liz Taylor. And we all know how long her big-diamond marriages lasted!

Response:

You know it’s funny. I’ve always found it annoying when other women felt compelled to knock me out to show me their rock. Now I have one and I don’t necessarily feel like pointing it out (it’s a big one – my fiance insisted NOT me). So whenever we’re out he’s the one grabbing my hand and telling people to look at the ring. Oh well, like I’ve said a million times, the marriage is for life, and in your heart not on your finger.

I don’t have an engagement ring at all. While at first a handful of people asked, both men and women, the one person who has commented on the lack of ring *repeatedly,* has been male. I do know women who pay attention to ring size (not people with whom I regularly socialise), but it seems men are more concerned about size than women. Fortunately, where my fiance is from engagement rings are not common, and if they are worn, they are the wedding band worn on the other hand until the ceremony. So a ring wasn’t even an issue for him, let alone concern over size.

Response:

Also try this website, they have an excellent tutorial on engagment rings, www.diamondscope.com/index.asp. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Folks, I live in BC, Canada and am looking for an engagement ring. I’m looking at spending around the 5k for a ring/setting total with taxes. I went to birks and they want 5150$ cdn for a .41, vs2, F colour, excellent cut with an 18k white gold setting and a .02 saphire built into it. I talked to my friend who’s dad is a jewler and for 5500 cdn I can get a .7, VS1, F with the same ring custom made, however it’s a Very Good cut. My question is, for the latter, is this a good deal? and is there a big difference in noticable quality and price between the excellent cut and very good cut? The diamonds I am taking about are "princess cut". Please let me know if this is an inappropriate place to post regarding this matter. thanks in advance, E check out bluenile.com – No I don’t work there, and I couldn’t care less if you get anything from them but I feel like I got a good deal.  I spent about 6k  and got a fantastic diamond.  I got the stone mounted locally so I could see the ring.  It took a little longer to get everything sorted out, but the appraisal for the stone was about 10k, so I’m happy. Just make sure to get an ideal cut, anything else and the internet is not a good place to buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Folks, I live in BC, Canada and am looking for an engagement ring. I’m looking at spending around the 5k for a ring/setting total with taxes. I went to birks and they want 5150$ cdn for a .41, vs2, F colour, excellent cut with an 18k white gold setting and a .02 saphire built into it. I talked to my friend who’s dad is a jewler and for 5500 cdn I can get a .7, VS1, F with the same ring custom made, however it’s a Very Good cut. My question is, for the latter, is this a good deal? and is there a big difference in noticable quality and price between the excellent cut and very good cut? The diamonds I am taking about are "princess cut". Please let me know if this is an inappropriate place to post regarding this matter. thanks in advance, E

check out bluenile.com – No I don’t work there, and I couldn’t care less if you get anything from them but I feel like I got a good deal.  I spent about 6k  and got a fantastic diamond.  I got the stone mounted locally so I could see the ring.  It took a little longer to get everything sorted out, but the appraisal for the stone was about 10k, so I’m happy. Just make sure to get an ideal cut, anything else and the internet is not a good place to buy.

Response:

Cut is the MOST important thing when picking out a diamond.  Don’t go to Bluenile, they are a rip off.  They do not have perfect cut.  Look up hearts and arrows diamonds.  They have the most perfect cut and you can get a worse color and clarity and the diamond will sparkle like you won’t believe because the cut is perfect.  If your fiance favors quantity over quality, then go for a lower quality cut and get a bigger ring, but if she wants something that will be a family heirloom, then get a perfect cut ring in a smaller size.  My diamond is a perfect cut, hearts and arrows, 1.007 carats, VS1 and color D. It looks more like 1.5-2 carats because of the cut.  You can get away with a worse color if you are getting a gold band, but with a silver band, you don’t want to go any higher than G in color or the diamond will really look yellow.  Check out this website, www.goodoldgold.com.  The 4C’s and Beyond link has a pretty good tutorial to what you should be looking for when buying a diamond ring. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Folks, I live in BC, Canada and am looking for an engagement ring. I’m looking at spending around the 5k for a ring/setting total with taxes. I went to birks and they want 5150$ cdn for a .41, vs2, F colour, excellent cut with an 18k white gold setting and a .02 saphire built into it. I talked to my friend who’s dad is a jewler and for 5500 cdn I can get a .7, VS1, F with the same ring custom made, however it’s a Very Good cut. My question is, for the latter, is this a good deal? and is there a big difference in noticable quality and price between the excellent cut and very good cut? The diamonds I am taking about are "princess cut". Please let me know if this is an inappropriate place to post regarding this matter. thanks in advance, E check out bluenile.com – No I don’t work there, and I couldn’t care less if you get anything from them but I feel like I got a good deal.  I spent about 6k  and got a fantastic diamond.  I got the stone mounted locally so I could see the ring.  It took a little longer to get everything sorted out, but the appraisal for the stone was about 10k, so I’m happy. Just make sure to get an ideal cut, anything else and the internet is not a good place to buy.

Response:

Mine’s a sapphire and I don’t wear it any more, because of my job (physical about 50% of the time) and my arthritic knuckles. Ann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know it’s funny. I’ve always found it annoying when other women felt compelled to knock me out to show me their rock. My engagement ring is a ruby solitaire, and my wedding band has a tiny diamond chip on it.  People who look at my rings (and I will show if asked) often say "How unusual to have a ruby in a wedding band!"  I explain to them that the ruby is the engagement ring, and most of them look puzzled. (It’s not like it’s similar in size, either – the ruby is about 8X the size of the diamond chip.)  Diamond = engagement ring to so many people, even if it’s tiny. I think most of the "it must be a big honkin’ rock or nobody will think you’re a stud" stuff comes from the diamond industry; but what do I know? Liz — "No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings.  Man’s reason and     spirit have often solved the seemingly unsolvable – and we believe they     can do it again."  – John F. Kennedy, 6/10/1963

Response:

My engagement ring is a ruby solitaire, and my wedding band has a tiny diamond chip on it.  People who look at my rings (and I will show if asked) often say "How unusual to have a ruby in a wedding band!"  I explain to them that the ruby is the engagement ring, and most of them look puzzled.  (It’s not like it’s similar in size, either – the ruby is about 8X the size of the diamond chip.)  Diamond = engagement ring to so many people, even if it’s tiny.

        So silly.  My wedding set has a ruby as well.  It’s actually a Claddagh ring in two parts, with the heart set with a ruby and several tiny diamonds along the base of the crown.  Technically, the ruby is on the engagement ring and the diamonds are on the wedding ring, but no one really can tell which is which looking at is, as it’s too far from the usual solitaire + wedding band thing. Best wishes, Ericka

Response:

That and Marylin Monroe…..I should say that my fiance doesn’t go around pointing out the ring because he wants to be a stud. We both think its really beautiful and we’re just so happy to have everyone know we’re getting hitched!

 I didn’t mean to imply that he did.  I do know, though, that men can feel an awful lot of pressure about the ring; I just think most of it comes from the advertisers! And congratulations on your engagement.  Marriage to the right person is a real joy. Liz — "No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings.  Man’s reason and     spirit have often solved the seemingly unsolvable – and we believe they     can do it again."  – John F. Kennedy, 6/10/1963

Response:

Thanks! We’ve been through the ringer together, but it has finally happened and at precisely the right time. We’re overjoyed! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That and Marylin Monroe…..I should say that my fiance doesn’t go around pointing out the ring because he wants to be a stud. We both think its really beautiful and we’re just so happy to have everyone know we’re getting hitched!  I didn’t mean to imply that he did.  I do know, though, that men can feel an awful lot of pressure about the ring; I just think most of it comes from the advertisers! And congratulations on your engagement.  Marriage to the right person is a real joy. Liz — "No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings.  Man’s reason and    spirit have often solved the seemingly unsolvable – and we believe they    can do it again."  – John F. Kennedy, 6/10/1963

Response:

Heh, my fianc

Question:

Some women are that shallow. I had a co-worker who was short and weighed over 200 lbs. She found a boyfriend on the internet who was tall and probably weighed in the neighborhood of 400 lbs. He was smart and handsome. My co-worker was always trying to get him to go on a diet. He was crazy about her, so he did his best to lose weight. They got engaged. He bought her a $30,000 diamond engagement ring. (He wasn’t rich, either.) Apparently, he couldn’t lose enough weight to satisfy her by the wedding date, so she kept the ring and broke off the engagement. I feel sorry for the poor guy.

He was a sucker though… Giving any woman a $30k ring? i – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As for your husband, I’d be very concerned about his secretiveness on the internet. You don’t deserve being treated like that, no matter what his complaints are. Please get some outside support and stand up to this guy. Cat

Response:

Some women are that shallow. I had a co-worker who was short and weighed over 200 lbs. She found a boyfriend on the internet who was tall and probably weighed in the neighborhood of 400 lbs. He was smart and handsome. My co-worker was always trying to get him to go on a diet. He was crazy about her, so he did his best to lose weight. They got engaged. He bought her a $30,000 diamond engagement ring. (He wasn’t rich, either.) Apparently, he couldn’t lose enough weight to satisfy her by the wedding date, so she kept the ring and broke off the engagement. I feel sorry for the poor guy. As for your husband, I’d be very concerned about his secretiveness on the internet. You don’t deserve being treated like that, no matter what his complaints are. Please get some outside support and stand up to this guy. Cat

Response:

soc.support.fat-acceptance, alt.support.diet, alt.support.marriage, alt.support.divorce, alt.support.diet.low-carb, alt.support.big-folks What’s wrong with this picture?     Looks like someone who wants support from people who have a similar problem. If it were a troll, it might also include spurious, off-topic groups.

The inclusion of soc.support.fat-acceptance is evidence of trolling. That group was abandoned to trolls a few years ago.  That group’s members moved to soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated, because the non-moderated group was trolled so heavily and constantly as to be rendered unusable. (I never subscribed to it, but the alt.support.diet hierarchy was invited to participate in the official discussion and vote on having the moderated group created) —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

The inclusion of soc.support.fat-acceptance is evidence of trolling. That group was abandoned to trolls a few years ago.

    Didn’t know that.     But I would still expect to see alt.atheism or misc.lesbians.bite.me or sci.languages.klingon or even alt.sex.squeek.squeek.squawk     I still think it is a woman who searched for appropriate groups and posted to all of them. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Why are they interestedonly in firm bodies and not in my inner beauty?

I think you’re being grieviously unfair to men, by comparing them to your husband.  You owe us an apology for your statements almost as much as your husband owes you an apology for what he’s said to you. —

Question:

Hey thanks for the weblink… the tips are really good!! Congratulations on your upcoming wedding! Michelle

i just posted in another group, should have included this one too…still trying to get the hang of this. we are just getting started in the planning process…the expense of everything (even the little things like the thank you cards!!!) has really stunned both of us…especially here in nyc so any ideas on cost cutting would be most appreciated…for other’s looking for the same thing, here is a link to some really unique tips i found the other day on how to cut thousands of $$ from the budget…

http://www.fool.com/specials/2000/sp000925.htm?logvisit=y&source=embb… 1135 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -R

Response:

Yes, we just returned from our honeymoon. We spent one day in Chicago We were married Friday morning and drove to Chicago to stay overnight and then drove back today. We actually managed to get married without an ice sculpture or 500 matchbook covers with our names engraved on them in gold. We bought my ring for 9 dollars, I wore shoes and a pair of pants I already had. I bought a nice white shirt and black jacket that I can wear again, cost $50. My husband already had a suit (you do realize you can get married without a tux). We bought silk flowers for about $50, with boutonni

Question:

Wait a minute Miss Mo!!  I thought you were comin’ to my house to help me

with my filing after you finished all your Dad’s stuff!!  ;o) <<    Well lets talk, how much do you pay?  hehe     I’m happy the job is close to home.  I’m not sure I’m going to like the hours though. 8+ a day for 10 days straight.  Now let me see where did I put the foot salts.  I think I’m going to soak my for a looooong time. Mo EMT-1A School Grad 5-7-01 No matter the problem, a cup of coffee always makes it better. Roy DeSoto

Response:

what caused the turnaround?  new management?  you might want to monitor

things fairly closely to make sure they don’t slide back to to where they were… << I haven’t a clue why they went from a 14 (bad) to a 5 (good).  This is a big jump and I do plan on keeping up close and personal tabs.  Management is the same.  Go figure. As for the photo ideas, thanks everyone.  I am going out tomorrow afternoon to get needed supplies to put together a photo album for mom.  Something small that she can hold as she can’t lift big ones anymore for they are to heavy.  I won’t have anything in her room that is breakable. Jewelry is something she hasn’t worn in a about a year.  She doesn’t understand what it is and why she is wearing it so she will go there without any.  I have her wedding ring as she likes to hide in so many different places I was afraid she was going to lose it or flush it down the toilet.  Gosh forbid. Dinner tonight was Hometown Buffet (the best in cafeteria dinning) and mom made a pig of herself.  I love to see her eat so well.  She was stuffed and refused to even consider dessert right up until I mentioned ice-cream.  Oh my did she make a b-line to the dessert table. Dad – I can hardly wait for Friday.  Friday can’t come soon enough for me. Mo –  Huh, what?  What is happening on Friday that I don’t know about or don’t remember about?    Then it dawns on me.  His first day of total peace and quiet… no mom, no me (I’ll be working 8+ hours).  He can get up when he wants and do what he wants when he wants.  Gee, I don’t know if he can handle total solitude.  I hope he doesn’t go stir crazy.    I would like to thank everyone for the well wishes.  It never is an easy decision but sometimes one that has to be made sooner or later.    I am feeling much better tonight.  Well about this situation I am but I need the pepto bismol.  I made a pig of myself also at dinner.  But oh it was soooo goood. Mo EMT-1A School Grad 5-7-01 No matter the problem, a cup of coffee always makes it better. Roy DeSoto

Response:

Mo, having been there, done that with my poor MIL – I think you may be pleasantly surprised. I’m willing to bet you and your father start enjoying your mom more, once the constant worry and work is off your shoulders. You will certainly be able to relax, once you can see she is well cared for. It is always really hard making the choice, and in the first weeks as they settle in everyone has doubts, but if its a good place, I know you won’t regret this – you regret the illness that created the problem in the first place, but good care can give you wonderful peace of mind (you can stop waking up at 3 am wondering if that funny noise in the hallway is your poor mom doing something she shouldn’t). Having some life beyond caregiving can also be a boon, to your physical, emotional and mental health. We’re behind you – my thoughts are with you – no one who hasn’t been through what you have can really understand. Mary G.

Response:

More power to you and your dad, Mo.  Decisions are hard to make, and don’t let anybody second guess you. Gwen — Any child can tell you that the sole purpose of a middle name is so he can tell when he’s in trouble!

Response:

Hi Mo Just popped in and saw your post. Hang in there, the early, settling in days are difficult. Don’t let anyone criticise you for doing the best thing at the time for you and your family. One of the things I did for Mum was to make a "memory book" for her. This was just an ordinary display folder (the ones with the plastic sleeves in ) I found some nice paper to slip in each sleeve.On each page I stuck copies of old photos one or two to a page (some scanned and printed on the computer, others copies I already had) I worked through Mums old photos and put them in chronological order and added a couple of lines of print explaining what the photos were. We found the "album" useful for staff and other visitors to use for "something to do". We have added to it as family occasions happen like births and weddings. It usually makes Mum smile as I have added some funny family photos with amusing captions. There is a problem with things disappearing from her room, photo frames do go "walkabout" but usually show up again if it is mentioned to staff. My Mum is in a secure unit so things can’t go very far. We were also allowed to take in her own bed linen and a couple of her armchairs so it seemed more like her own home. Hope things go well for you Cally

Response:

Hi Mo,  Sorry you’re feeling so low about your Mom’s move. I remember it well and have finally started feeling really comfortable with our decision in the past month and Mom moved 6 months ago. We did bring in some things that were familiar to Mom, like her bed blanket, some little stuffed animals she loved carrying around and a light up aquarium lamp along with old family photo’s, everything marked. That was on the first day and since then I brought in other things once I got a feel for the place. One thing I wish we had done the first day was bring in a tape recorder so I could actually remember what was said and decided since I was only concentrating on how Mom was doing and didn’t really pay attention to other things. I wish we had filled out all the paperwork before hand. There were only a few things to fill out but my siblings freaked when we had to verify the DNR from her POA and trying to remember more things to tell them about Mom’s daily life etc. I just wanted to concentrate on Mom and see how she was doing but to much other stuff had to be done so later when I tried to figure things out I only had a partial picture and the sibs couldn’t remember either. Hope the transition is calm. — Mare              (.)(.) =oOO==(_)==OOo== http://www.muggsmulcher.com/kstuff/a.s.a/intro.htm alt.support.alzheimers’ FAQs and Stuff Pages – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi to everyone,      I didn’t want to say anything until it became official.  We wondered if we were doing the right thing in even thinking of nursing home care but these past two weeks have become such that my father says he has no choice.  It really saddens him to see me have to get up at around 5:30am every day to clean up the floor after mom has taken care of business.  I tell him it’s okay but he just doesn’t like the way things are going for me.  He wants me to have a life outside of this house and knows I can’t as long as mom is living with us.      I know this is breaking his heart and I wish I knew of a way to make him feel a little better.  I am sad over this too but I am dealing with it a little better than he is.      Anyhoo Tomorrow at 10:00am we take her to her new home.  The place my dad and uncle thought was the best we’ve seen, that I don’t like (very poor medicare rating), has now wound up with an awesomely(sp?) good medicare rating.  And I like what I’ve seen so far.  It’s only 15 minutes from home. There’s a school I take classes at from time to time just past the place that would make it good for me.  Going from work to visit mom them further on to school.      Dad has decided to tell mom she is leaving the daycare center she has been going to for a few months for another daycare center closer to home.  The people at the care center not NH, as they like to say, are nice.  They said it is probably a better idea to bring her on over Thursday and leave her there for the first four days to get settled in.  The we should come and visit on Monday and anytime we want to after that.  So that’s how we are going to proceed with this.      Tonight we are going to a fancy shmancy restaurant.  I told my dad I would like to have a ritzy dinner out some place nice rather than our usual tv dinners or a burger joint and he agreed.  Something nice for mom.      QUESTION for anyone who has a LO in a care center.  I’m looking to put a framed photograph of the family in her room.  Maybe a few other odds and ends to perk up the room a bit.  Not a lot just a few things.  Did any of you do anything like this.  Whatever I put in there will be things that if they wind up gone I won’t lose sleep over them.  Inexpensive, replaceable things.      Excuse me now while I go and do some more crying.  I try to have these short term breakdowns when he’s not around.  He has gone to pick up his new hearing aids.  I hope they work better than the last pair.  DAD please tern down the volume on the tv. Mo EMT-1A School Grad 5-7-01 No matter the problem, a cup of coffee always makes it better. Roy DeSoto

Response:

Snip’d And last but not least… I start work on Friday.  It’s only a two weeks job but it’s a start.  Re-doing the entire filing system for a car dealership in my area.

Wait a minute Miss Mo!!  I thought you were comin’ to my house to help me with my filing after you finished all your Dad’s stuff!!  ;o) No, seriously, good luck with the new job and I’ll be thinking of you tomorrow.  Like I always tell myself when things get stressful: Remember to breathe. Good Luck! Pam

Response:

snip’d      QUESTION for anyone who has a LO in a care center.  I’m looking to put a framed photograph of the family in her room.  Maybe a few other odds and ends to perk up the room a bit.  Not a lot just a few things.  Did any of you do anything like this.

Yes, great idea.  I pulled pulled a bunch of framed photos as well as albums and kept them visibly available so that mom would be "surrounded" by loved ones who looked familiar.  They were also photos that she already had around her home, so they were familiar in their frames and all.  I also brought fresh flowers and ice cream on my first visit that night. I figured if she was in a funk when I arrived, the flowers and ice cream would help provide a distraction.  It worked! I offered ice cream to all her "new friends" and the aides that were there sitting with them and we all sat around laughing and talking in the common area. Whatever I put in there will be things that if they wind up gone I won’t lose sleep over them.  Inexpensive, replaceable things.

Smart.  Try to use as many of these things that are also familiar. And one more suggestion:  If she has any good jewelry that she would miss wearing, consider replacing stones with fakes.  Mom was very aware of her diamond engagement ring missing when I took it off her finger for fear of losing it at her new home.  So I had a cubic Zirconia put in it’s place and gave it back to her.  The two weeks that it took to replace the stone were hell for the aides, cuz she kept agonizing over losing her ring!!  Now she’s happy with it back and if she loses it, it’s still a loss, but much less costly!      Excuse me now while I go and do some more crying.  I try to have these short term breakdowns when he’s not around.  

Oh Mo, my heart hurts for you.  I wish I could give you a big hug. Maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing if you and Dad cried together? He might need that too. Good Luck tomorrow, Pam

Response:

fan) sprake: Dear Mo My Mom has been in a nursing center going on 3 years now—she started out on the assisted living floor but had to be moved to a different floor 2 months ago—-My sister put some personal things in there—baby pictures of us kids, pics of grandkids—my mom & dad’s 50th wedding anniversary pic. She also put special decorations on the outside of her door to help her find her room—Mom doesn’t have AD but she is nearly blind & that helped. My Mom was upset about leaving her house but has been happy where she is—-she feels more secure knowing people will be checking on her so often.   Hope you are as pleased with your center as we have been with my mom’s. Char – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi to everyone,     I didn’t want to say anything until it became official.  We wondered if we were doing the right thing in even thinking of nursing home care but these past two weeks have become such that my father says he has no choice.  It really saddens him to see me have to get up at around 5:30am every day to clean up the floor after mom has taken care of business.  I tell him it’s okay but he just doesn’t like the way things are going for me.  He wants me to have a life outside of this house and knows I can’t as long as mom is living with us.     I know this is breaking his heart and I wish I knew of a way to make him feel a little better.  I am sad over this too but I am dealing with it a little better than he is.     Anyhoo Tomorrow at 10:00am we take her to her new home.  The place my dad and uncle thought was the best we’ve seen, that I don’t like (very poor medicare rating), has now wound up with an awesomely(sp?) good medicare rating. And I like what I’ve seen so far.  It’s only 15 minutes from home.  There’s a school I take classes at from time to time just past the place that would make it good for me.  Going from work to visit mom them further on to school.     Dad has decided to tell mom she is leaving the daycare center she has been going to for a few months for another daycare center closer to home.  The people at the care center not NH, as they like to say, are nice.  They said it is probably a better idea to bring her on over Thursday and leave her there for the first four days to get settled in.  The we should come and visit on Monday and anytime we want to after that.  So that’s how we are going to proceed with this.     Tonight we are going to a fancy shmancy restaurant.  I told my dad I would like to have a ritzy dinner out some place nice rather than our usual tv dinners or a burger joint and he agreed.  Something nice for mom.     QUESTION for anyone who has a LO in a care center.  I’m looking to put a framed photograph of the family in her room.  Maybe a few other odds and ends to perk up the room a bit.  Not a lot just a few things.  Did any of you do anything like this.  Whatever I put in there will be things that if they wind up gone I won’t lose sleep over them.  Inexpensive, replaceable things.     Excuse me now while I go and do some more crying.  I try to have these short term breakdowns when he’s not around.  He has gone to pick up his new hearing aids.  I hope they work better than the last pair.  DAD please tern down the volume on the tv. Mo EMT-1A School Grad 5-7-01 No matter the problem, a cup of coffee always makes it better. Roy DeSoto

Response:

     I didn’t want to say anything until it became official.  We wondered if we were doing the right thing in even thinking of nursing home care but these past two weeks have become such that my father says he has no choice.  

these choices are tough, but it sure sounds to me like it was maybe even past time to do this — you might think so too, once you finally get the load off.  like others, i wish you & your family the best during this difficult time.      Anyhoo Tomorrow at 10:00am we take her to her new home.  The place my dad and uncle thought was the best we’ve seen, that I don’t like (very poor medicare rating), has now wound up with an awesomely(sp?) good medicare rating.

what caused the turnaround?  new management?  you might want to monitor things fairly closely to make sure they don’t slide back to to where they were…      QUESTION for anyone who has a LO in a care center.  I’m looking to put a framed photograph of the family in her room.  Maybe a few other odds and ends to perk up the room a bit.  Not a lot just a few things.

what i’ve noticed seems to work well when visiting our local pioneers’ home: SEVERAL pictures in frames, but the home may want you to use plastic in the frames rather than glass.  ask if there is some way to fasten frames to the wall so they can’t be removed by other residents who may decide to pick up and move anything loose.  larger pictures work better for folks who either have failing eyesight or eventually will have problems losing glasses.  obviously you want copies of pictures. most homes will allow you to bring a favorite rocker or recliner, and that often helps familiarize the patient to their new room, as would favorite pillow covers, blankets, or quilts.  other things that help with familiarization include stuffed toys. one thing that helps a lot, especially with visitors who may have difficulty communicating with the patient, or who the patient might not remember, is a photo album.  this can provide hours of reminiscing. obviously, you want to use copies of photos and keep the originals at home in your album. if you mother has rings that include one with a diamond, get her a replacement ringwith a fake diamond — she won’t notice the difference, but it won’t be a loss if it’s stolen. best of luck with the transition, and welcome to the rest of your life. ;^)

Response:

Dear Mo, Anyone who says you haven’t done right by your Mom will have to contend with me, too. You have been wonderful to her. And whatever you and your Dad decide is best will recieve whole hearted support. (((hugs))) It’s hard, but the reality is that some patients need help so many hours in the day that it really takes shifts of different people to meet their needs. And since two people just can’t do the work of three or more (and still support the family), good NH’s become the best place for our LO’s. Neither of the NH’s my FIL was in allowed glass in picture frames. We have Paintshop Pro, software for photographs. We scanned in family pictures, cropped and sized them to fit spaces in an inexpensive collage frame and printed them out (on a single page and in color) on photo stock (from Costco). This way, original photos would not be lost. And if the ‘photo’ were damaged or lost, we could print out another. We also captioned the pictures with names and relationship (Alan; Doug, son; Rebecca, granddaughter…) so that anyone who looked at them could read them to selves and to FIL. The first nursing home had trouble keeping track of Alan’s things (glasses, clothing, etc.) which was the least of our problems with them, but annoying nonetheless. The second NH had no problems re things breaking or disappearing. Wishing you all good things. Adelle

Response:

Hi to everyone,

I didn’t want to say anything until it became official.  Anyhoo Tomorrow at 10:00am we take her to her new home. << P.S.  To all you flamers and trollers out there in internet land, feel free to tell me how you really feel about our decision.  As the saying goes, "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me.  I’m a big girl and can take care of your ridicule with the touch of a click button. Mo EMT-1A School Grad 5-7-01 No matter the problem, a cup of coffee always makes it better. Roy DeSoto

Response:

Hi to everyone,

I didn’t want to say anything until it became official. << And last but not least… I start work on Friday.  It’s only a two weeks job but it’s a start.  Re-doing the entire filing system for a car dealership in my area. Mo EMT-1A School Grad 5-7-01 No matter the problem, a cup of coffee always makes it better. Roy DeSoto

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi to everyone,      I didn’t want to say anything until it became official.  We wondered if we were doing the right thing in even thinking of nursing home care but these past two weeks have become such that my father says he has no choice.  It really saddens him to see me have to get up at around 5:30am every day to clean up the floor after mom has taken care of business.  I tell him it’s okay but he just doesn’t like the way things are going for me.  He wants me to have a life outside of this house and knows I can’t as long as mom is living with us.      I know this is breaking his heart and I wish I knew of a way to make him feel a little better.  I am sad over this too but I am dealing with it a little better than he is.      Anyhoo Tomorrow at 10:00am we take her to her new home.  The place my dad and uncle thought was the best we’ve seen, that I don’t like (very poor medicare rating), has now wound up with an awesomely(sp?) good medicare rating.  And I like what I’ve seen so far.  It’s only 15 minutes from home. There’s a school I take classes at from time to time just past the place that would make it good for me.  Going from work to visit mom them further on to school.      Dad has decided to tell mom she is leaving the daycare center she has been going to for a few months for another daycare center closer to home.  The people at the care center not NH, as they like to say, are nice.  They said it is probably a better idea to bring her on over Thursday and leave her there for the first four days to get settled in.  The we should come and visit on Monday and anytime we want to after that.  So that’s how we are going to proceed with this.      Tonight we are going to a fancy shmancy restaurant.  I told my dad I would like to have a ritzy dinner out some place nice rather than our usual tv dinners or a burger joint and he agreed.  Something nice for mom.      QUESTION for anyone who has a LO in a care center.  I’m looking to put a framed photograph of the family in her room.  Maybe a few other odds and ends to perk up the room a bit.  Not a lot just a few things.  Did any of you do anything like this.  Whatever I put in there will be things that if they wind up gone I won’t lose sleep over them.  Inexpensive, replaceable things.      Excuse me now while I go and do some more crying.  I try to have these short term breakdowns when he’s not around.  He has gone to pick up his new hearing aids.  I hope they work better than the last pair.  DAD please tern down the volume on the tv. Mo

Dear Mo, Keep your courage up. Only you know what is the right decision for you and your family.   Nobody else can possibly understand the pressures and difficulties more than you, who is an actual part of the situation. So many here have told us that they were sorry they didn’t do it sooner and that it was the right thing to do.   I am sure it is right for you too. We are looking into long term care situations too, but taking our time about it. Anybody who dares to jump all over you on this, Mo…. will get flamed back by me.  You don’t deserve anything but kindness and support for your decisions at this point. I know this had to be a hard decision and not something entered into lightly. I am off in a hurry now, but here’s a hug from a friend ((((((( hug ))))))). Love, Evelyn

Response:

Hi to everyone,      I didn’t want to say anything until it became official.  We wondered if we were doing the right thing in even thinking of nursing home care but these past two weeks have become such that my father says he has no choice.  It really saddens him to see me have to get up at around 5:30am every day to clean up the floor after mom has taken care of business.  I tell him it’s okay but he just doesn’t like the way things are going for me.  He wants me to have a life outside of this house and knows I can’t as long as mom is living with us.      I know this is breaking his heart and I wish I knew of a way to make him feel a little better.  I am sad over this too but I am dealing with it a little better than he is.      Anyhoo Tomorrow at 10:00am we take her to her new home.  The place my dad and uncle thought was the best we’ve seen, that I don’t like (very poor medicare rating), has now wound up with an awesomely(sp?) good medicare rating.  And I like what I’ve seen so far.  It’s only 15 minutes from home.  There’s a school I take classes at from time to time just past the place that would make it good for me.  Going from work to visit mom them further on to school.      Dad has decided to tell mom she is leaving the daycare center she has been going to for a few months for another daycare center closer to home.  The people at the care center not NH, as they like to say, are nice.  They said it is probably a better idea to bring her on over Thursday and leave her there for the first four days to get settled in.  The we should come and visit on Monday and anytime we want to after that.  So that’s how we are going to proceed with this.      Tonight we are going to a fancy shmancy restaurant.  I told my dad I would like to have a ritzy dinner out some place nice rather than our usual tv dinners or a burger joint and he agreed.  Something nice for mom.      QUESTION for anyone who has a LO in a care center.  I’m looking to put a framed photograph of the family in her room.  Maybe a few other odds and ends to perk up the room a bit.  Not a lot just a few things.  Did any of you do anything like this.  Whatever I put in there will be things that if they wind up gone I won’t lose sleep over them.  Inexpensive, replaceable things.      Excuse me now while I go and do some more crying.  I try to have these short term breakdowns when he’s not around.  He has gone to pick up his new hearing aids.  I hope they work better than the last pair.  DAD please tern down the volume on the tv. Mo EMT-1A School Grad 5-7-01 No matter the problem, a cup of coffee always makes it better. Roy DeSoto

Response:

Question:

Try looking other places.

I second that suggestion.  My band is platinum and 18k, and cost about $400 (I also have a platinum e-ring).  The jeweler (Shane Company–I’ve no afiliation except as a customer) had a lot of platinum bands that were about there or a little less expensive.  FH’s ring (also platinum and 18k, but much wider than mine, and with a pattern engraved on the platinum part) was a lot more expensive (over $1k), but considering the design and the fact that he doesn’t have a diamond solitaire on his hand, well worth the price The white gold may be fine too–try it on next to your engagement ring and see if it looks good together.  I had to try on a lot of rings before I found one that I liked that went well with mine–my e-ring has a bit thicker band than most others I’ve seen, and bands that were too thin looked funny, and too-thick took up too much room on my (stubby) fingers.  Hehe, I actually tried on FH’s band as an option for me, but it was too wide next to my e-ring. Good luck, and have fun –twinkle to ms 7/7/01

Response:

Hi, If you’re worried about the expense of platinum but wish to have it anyway, you might consider using a pattern which includes mostly yellow gold with a rail of platinum (or some other feature in platinum).  We wound up choosing this option and we love it!  Not only do the yellow gold and platinum complement one another nicely – it also allows for the occasional gold bracelet (etc.) to not look out of place with my wedding jewelry. It’s also sometimes less expensive.  We wound up paying a fair amount for our bands because I designed them so the custom plate and casting were a little hefty but I have seen plenty of mixed metal rings for far less than a solid platinum one would be. White gold – I think it will be obvious against the platinum… Cheryl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a platinum/diamond engagement ring.  My fiance and I want to get matching wedding bands–originally, we were thinking platinum, but when we went to the jeweler’s today, we were surprised by the price.  Two 5mm "comfort fit" bands in white gold were priced at $400; the same bands were $1400 in platinum. So I have a few questions–is it worth it to go platinum?  Is there anything wrong with white gold, other than that it is less rare than platinum? Will a white gold wedding band look remarkably different alongside a platinum engagement ring, after years and years have passed? Thanks for any feedback…

Response:

Have you worn white gold for extended periods in the past?   A small percentage of people (I’ve heard estimates around 5%) develop an allergy to the nickel in white gold.  I had never worn white gold for any extended period until my husband surprised me with some lovely diamond earrings mounted in white gold.  When we were selling our houses I wore the earrings for a couple of months straight (rather than leave them in a house with strangers traipsing through) and during that time I developed a nickel allergy.  The skin on my earlobes got very sore and started to slough off. When I took off the earrings and wore yellow gold earrings, my earlobes healed up.  But after that whenever I tried to wear the white gold earrings my earlobes would get sore and the skin would start peeling off.  I ended up going to the jeweler and asking for help.  She arranged to have the outer parts of the earrings coated with yellow gold, which was much less expensive than resetting the diamonds in different mountings.   So I’m very glad my rings are platinum.  Otherwise I probably would have needed to have them replaced once the allergy developed. Good Luck, Sarah W   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there anything wrong with white gold, other than that it is less rare than platinum?

Response:

I have a platinum/diamond engagement ring.  My fiance and I want to get matching wedding bands–originally, we were thinking platinum, but when we went to the jeweler’s today, we were surprised by the price.  Two 5mm "comfort fit" bands in white gold were priced at $400; the same bands were $1400 in platinum. So I have a few questions–is it worth it to go platinum?  Is there anything wrong with white gold, other than that it is less rare than platinum?  Will a white gold wedding band look remarkably different alongside a platinum engagement ring, after years and years have passed? Thanks for any feedback…

Response:

So I have a few questions–is it worth it to go platinum?  Is there anything wrong with white gold, other than that it is less rare than platinum?  Will a white gold wedding band look remarkably different alongside a platinum engagement ring, after years and years have passed?

Try looking other places. For example, I got a plat/diamond wedding band at Bloomingdale’s (in tyson’s corner) for ~$500. DH looked for a plat band, but decided the $300 price difference didn’t matter to him (IIRC, $99 for white gold, $400 for plat). He got the white gold, as his ring doesn’t have to match mine. I have platinum in both my e-ring and wedding bands. I can’t comment on the wear between the two, but DH’s band still looks silvery, 9 months later. -Leslie

Response:

Question:

I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies? Thanks, Pam — Pamela G. Niedermayer Pinehill Softworks Inc. 600 W. 28th St., Suite 103 Austin, TX 78705 512-236-1677 http://www.pinehill.com

Response:

Wrap ‘em yourself first. Old blankets, sleeping bags, 70’s curtains, whatever you have. When I move a valuable piece, it is easily half as big again due to padding. Don’t know about in the states, but here you can get bubble wrap very cheaply from Garden centers (they sell it as greenhouse insulation I think) Make sure that if you use shippers, they are insured against damage and remember to inspect the pieces thoroughly before you sign for them. It may be embarrassing to make the shippers wait while you check, but most shippers take a signature to mean the goods arrived in perfect condition. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies? Thanks, Pam

Response:

Pam, I’m surprised you don’t have the answer yourself, being so worldly and knowledgeable.  I mean you do have a comment for just about every thread, including the meaningless ones.  LOL. Seriously,  have you asked Mailboxes Etc..  I know they crate and ship.  I would almost bet they’d be cheaper than a moving van. Another thought is to ask Jummy to take a drive and get it.  With his middle finger all bandaged up, he won’t be cutting wood for a few weeks.  I’m sure he would love to drive to Virginia to help you out. — Sincerely, Sy Kaplan Proprietor Black Sheep Woodworks 14 Smith Farm Road N. Chittenden, VT  05763 (802) 483-2600 http://www.blacksheepwoodworks.com "We’ve all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know that it’s not true."

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies? Thanks, Pam — Pamela G. Niedermayer Pinehill Softworks Inc. 600 W. 28th St., Suite 103 Austin, TX 78705 512-236-1677 http://www.pinehill.com

Response:

Thanks, but I’m not there (1300+ miles away), won’t be for some months. Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wrap ‘em yourself first. Old blankets, sleeping bags, 70’s curtains, whatever you have. When I move a valuable piece, it is easily half as big again due to padding. Don’t know about in the states, but here you can get bubble wrap very cheaply from Garden centers (they sell it as greenhouse insulation I think) Make sure that if you use shippers, they are insured against damage and remember to inspect the pieces thoroughly before you sign for them. It may be embarrassing to make the shippers wait while you check, but most shippers take a signature to mean the goods arrived in perfect condition. I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies? Thanks, Pam

– Pamela G. Niedermayer Pinehill Softworks Inc. 600 W. 28th St., Suite 103 Austin, TX 78705 512-236-1677 http://www.pinehill.com

Response:

Now you’ve got me laughing. First, no I don’t comment or ask further questions on just about every thread. Just for starters there is the entire group of power tool discussions in which I seldom if ever participate…. Second, doesn’t this fit in the "comment for just about every thread, whether one has something to say or not"? Look to thy own self…. LOL Seriously, if I were there I’d pack it up myself, don’t think Mailboxes, Etc. does pickups, but will ask them tomorrow. Are you saying you ship big pieces of your furniture via M, E? Thanks, Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pam, I’m surprised you don’t have the answer yourself, being so worldly and knowledgeable.  I mean you do have a comment for just about every thread, including the meaningless ones.  LOL. Seriously,  have you asked Mailboxes Etc..  I know they crate and ship.  I would almost bet they’d be cheaper than a moving van. Another thought is to ask Jummy to take a drive and get it.  With his middle finger all bandaged up, he won’t be cutting wood for a few weeks.  I’m sure he would love to drive to Virginia to help you out. — Sincerely, Sy Kaplan Proprietor Black Sheep Woodworks 14 Smith Farm Road N. Chittenden, VT  05763 (802) 483-2600 http://www.blacksheepwoodworks.com …

– Pamela G. Niedermayer Pinehill Softworks Inc. 600 W. 28th St., Suite 103 Austin, TX 78705 512-236-1677 http://www.pinehill.com

Response:

Look to thy own self…. LOL

Oh I do, almost everyday. <g  Each day I like what I see just a wee bit more.  Primarily I enter a thread to either compliment a piece, lend my opinion on a tool, or  discuss a finishing issue.  I do not chase threads that debate anacronyms, nor trolls.  I really do not enjoy see 300 messages a day, mostly made up of followup comments that have strayed from woodworking severely and threads that started based on a non-woodworking topic.  I don’t really care if people wish to do this, but it is more appropriate to simply go to a private chat room or direct email IMHO, rather then submit "all" subscribers to it. I’d still like to see some of your work.  Based on the information and opinion you’ve shared, I am betting your projects are quite excellent. Seriously, if I were there I’d pack it up myself, don’t think Mailboxes, Etc. does pickups, but will ask them tomorrow. Are you saying you ship big pieces of your furniture via M, E?

I have not shipped furniture with them, but my local ME does offer crating and shipping.  They pick up documents so I don’t see why they wouldn’t pick up furniture for the right price.  It’s worth a call. Also, last year at the Vermont State Fair I was approached by two small (1-2 man) trucking companies.  They were trying to get their business off the ground I suppose.  One assured me he was willing to drive an order as small as 4 Adirondack chairs and footrests as far as Virginia.  As I recall he estimated a couple of hundred dollars.  I have not needed their services, but if need be I will be requests numerous references. Sincerely, Sy Kaplan

Response:

… I’d still like to see some of your work.  Based on the information and opinion you’ve shared, I am betting your projects are quite excellent.

I promise, as soon as I produce something besides tools that I consider worthy of sharing, I’ll post the photos. See, I’m very new to the neander approach, am still learning how to use the tools, deciding on which tools to use for some things, making some more, rebuilding the shop, and other ww activities. I keep hitting these major snags just trying to finish the cameras. And when I have to work for money 6 or 7 days a week (because the clients all want stuff yesterday, not being all that greedy), it goes pretty slowly. … Also, last year at the Vermont State Fair I was approached by two small (1-2 man) trucking companies.  They were trying to get their business off the ground I suppose.  One assured me he was willing to drive an order as small as 4 Adirondack chairs and footrests as far as Virginia.  As I recall he estimated a couple of hundred dollars.  I have not needed their services, but if need be I will be requests numerous references.

I’ve only moved furniture via national moving van company or ourselves in a rented van. Unfortunately my 76 year old mother is not quite up to this packing job, not even to much in the way of supervising the packing; so I’ve got to rely on someone else to handle it all from a distance. And it’s very good stuff. Thanks, Pam — Pamela G. Niedermayer Pinehill Softworks Inc. 600 W. 28th St., Suite 103 Austin, TX 78705 512-236-1677 http://www.pinehill.com

Response:

Doesn’t MBE only use commercial package carriers, like Fed Ex (ground) and UPS? Those guys get pretty pricey when the box size gets large. My money’s on the movers being cheapest although you probably won’t get a firm delivery date — more like sometime b/n 7 & 14 days. Having not too recently moved cross country, the national moving companies seem to be franchised (is that the right one?) — independantly owned but conforming to the national co’s rules.  This means that level and quality of service will vary based on location.  There also seems to be quite a bit of variation on the part of the driver. With us, the driver was responsible for how full he kept his truck, thus the variable delivery time.  It was in his favor to try and pick up small loads here & there to keep his rig as full as possible.  He seemed somewhat autonomous in that regard although it did seem like he had bounds for how long he could make us wait. Oh, so they charge by weight and estimate by cubic foot.  It turns out that they have enough data that their estimating scheme does work — at least the folks we went with. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pam, I’m surprised you don’t have the answer yourself, being so worldly and knowledgeable.  I mean you do have a comment for just about every thread, including the meaningless ones.  LOL. Seriously,  have you asked Mailboxes Etc..  I know they crate and ship.  I would almost bet they’d be cheaper than a moving van. Another thought is to ask Jummy to take a drive and get it.  With his middle finger all bandaged up, he won’t be cutting wood for a few weeks.  I’m sure he would love to drive to Virginia to help you out. — Sincerely, Sy Kaplan Proprietor Black Sheep Woodworks 14 Smith Farm Road N. Chittenden, VT  05763 (802) 483-2600 http://www.blacksheepwoodworks.com "We’ve all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know that it’s not true." I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies? Thanks, Pam — Pamela G. Niedermayer Pinehill Softworks Inc. 600 W. 28th St., Suite 103 Austin, TX 78705 512-236-1677 http://www.pinehill.com

Response:

I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies?

        Probably the cheapest way to do this is to have someone pack it up properly on one end and ship it by freight truck.           If it was me, I would call all the antique shops in Richmond and ask them to recommend someone.  I’ll bet they have to deal with this all the time and know who is good and who isn’t.

Response:

I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies? Thanks, Pam — Pamela G. Niedermayer Pinehill Softworks Inc. 600 W. 28th St., Suite 103 Austin, TX 78705 512-236-1677 http://www.pinehill.com

Someone may have already suggested this but just in case……. There are moving companies that will take partial loads.  They make up a full load by picking up at several different locations.  Naturally they drop off at different locations as well. The result of course is that they can’t give an exact delivery  date.  I’ve heard of two week delivery "windows" but they will call from wherever and let you know a couple days ahead of when they want to deliver. Most of the major moving companies know of these movers and will usually direct you to them.  Give it a try.

Response:

Thanks, Flint, sounds like good info. I’ll first check with a couple of smaller outfits to just pack on one end and get it to a shipping company; but if that doesn’t work, it’s definitely a big mover as the option. Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … My money’s on the movers being cheapest although you probably won’t get a firm delivery date — more like sometime b/n 7 & 14 days. Having not too recently moved cross country, the national moving companies seem to be franchised (is that the right one?) — independantly owned but conforming to the national co’s rules.  This means that level and quality of service will vary based on location.  There also seems to be quite a bit of variation on the part of the driver. With us, the driver was responsible for how full he kept his truck, thus the variable delivery time.  It was in his favor to try and pick up small loads here & there to keep his rig as full as possible.  He seemed somewhat autonomous in that regard although it did seem like he had bounds for how long he could make us wait. Oh, so they charge by weight and estimate by cubic foot.  It turns out that they have enough data that their estimating scheme does work — at least the folks we went with. …

Response:

Good idea, Peter, that’s a great idea. I’ll also check with a couple of woodworkers/custom furniture builders in the VA/DC area I’m getting referred. Thanks, Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies?         Probably the cheapest way to do this is to have someone pack it up properly on one end and ship it by freight truck.         If it was me, I would call all the antique shops in Richmond and ask them to recommend someone.  I’ll bet they have to deal with this all the time and know who is good and who isn’t.

Response:

Thanks, pompier, may end up doing this as soon as I can find someone to pack it. Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Someone may have already suggested this but just in case……. There are moving companies that will take partial loads.  They make up a full load by picking up at several different locations.  Naturally they drop off at different locations as well. The result of course is that they can’t give an exact delivery  date.  I’ve heard of two week delivery "windows" but they will call from wherever and let you know a couple days ahead of when they want to deliver. Most of the major moving companies know of these movers and will usually direct you to them.  Give it a try.

Response:

Call a couple of your local antique stores and talk to them. Many of the larger ones offer shipping and might be willing to give some recommendations. Stuart Johnson Red Oak, Texas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies? Thanks, Pam

Response:

Thanks, Stuart. Fortunately Mom got so excited by the prospect of emptying her garage of furniture (she just down sized houses slightly), she volunteered to start calling around. Should save me a small fortune in long distance charges. Also, a couple of people on list know people in VA who may be able to help; but if all this fails, I’ll call some local stores, maybe for a fee they’d even handle the whole thing. Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Call a couple of your local antique stores and talk to them. Many of the larger ones offer shipping and might be willing to give some recommendations. Stuart Johnson Red Oak, Texas I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies? Thanks, Pam

– Pamela G. Niedermayer Pinehill Softworks Inc. 600 W. 28th St., Suite 103 Austin, TX 78705 512-236-1677 http://www.pinehill.com

Response:

Pam, If they have any antique value at all, and you want then safe, get a moving company to do it for you. A fourposter bed and a love seat would probably be a "mini" shipment, and the rate will probably seem exorbient, but it will be the best way to go. Let them do all of the packing and padding otherwise it will ship as "PBO" (Packed by Owner) and they will not be responsible. The movers will advise as to the potential need for extra value insurance. It is not really a big deal; these types of shipments hapen all the time. Hope this helps Regards Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies? Thanks, Pam — Pamela G. Niedermayer Pinehill Softworks Inc. 600 W. 28th St., Suite 103 Austin, TX 78705 512-236-1677 http://www.pinehill.com

Response:

Thanks, Jeffrey, we’re checking with the small company that custom made the bed and have shipped a dining room table and chairs they also made to us before with zero problems; but they won’t be able to actually do the work this time since the items aren’t in their shop. Then a couple of woodworkers in the Richmond area referred by people here, then we’ll probably be in the hands of the moving companies. One of my main concerns is that the regular movers have always used cardboard, whereas the woodworkers crated. However, I have to admit that the big movers have never destroyed, lost, or even scratched any of our stuff – a much better record than Jack and I have. Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pam, If they have any antique value at all, and you want then safe, get a moving company to do it for you. A fourposter bed and a love seat would probably be a "mini" shipment, and the rate will probably seem exorbient, but it will be the best way to go. Let them do all of the packing and padding otherwise it will ship as "PBO" (Packed by Owner) and they will not be responsible. The movers will advise as to the potential need for extra value insurance. It is not really a big deal; these types of shipments hapen all the time. Hope this helps Regards Jeff …

– Pamela G. Niedermayer Pinehill Softworks Inc. 600 W. 28th St., Suite 103 Austin, TX 78705 512-236-1677 http://www.pinehill.com

Response:

I’ve got to have a couple of antique pieces (4 poster bed and love seat) packed and shipped from Richmond, Virginia to Texas. Anyone have any recommendations, besides the regular moving van companies?

Why not use the regular moving van companies? You say the items are antique. If they are valuable — even if only to you — are you going to chince out and take the chance that maybe someone did an OK job crating/boxing the pieces up? And then maybe a dedicated furniture trucking outfit (like MGM out of High Point, NC and Totowa, NJ) will pack those boxes/crates/cartons in such a way that no transit damage will result by the time you uncrate the items? And how do you know that these items were constructed to withstand the rigors of being carted in a crated state (vs. being carted in a blanket-wrapped pappded van or truck)? You don’t. I am a furniture repair technician. I fixed the concealed damages that occur on trucks that haul crated furniture. I also fix the damages that occur on blanket-wrapped items hauled in moving vans/trucks. All the moving companies are insured without you buying extra coverage on your items. They will pay $0.60 per POUND on any item that you can substantiate was damaged by them. The burdon of proof is on you. They inventory each item before it is loaded (before it is packed, actually). That means that they look for pre-existing scrathes, dents, mars, soiled marks — anything tghat signifies that the items that they are hauling are not in factory-new condition. You can buy additional coverage (the word "insurance" is bantied about, far too much). If your items are anitque and have special value, it’s up to you to substantiate what that value is. Appraisals cost money and you are the one to pay, just like when you purchase an additional rider to attach to your home insurabce policy if you have a special watch (like a Rolex) or diamond engagement ring, etc. There’s different types of coverage. Don’t get snookerd by the estimator. At the same time, purchase the coverage that will pay out to you what the item is worth should it be mangled beyonfd repair. If the item is worth something because it is collectable, get coverage that will pay you the difference in value between the item’s current worth and what it is worth after it has to be restored. Let me interject here: antique does not equal valuable. Antique does not equal collectable. An item that accrues in value as it gets older is collectable. Just because something is old, it may be venerable, but not necessarily valuable. That’s where appraisers enter the picture. They are the so-called experts on what is collectable. When you choose a moving company that blanket wraps their items, look for one with high standards. Their movers and drivers should all "look" professional. They should not smoke near your goods. They should use no foul langauge. More important, their blanket wrapping should be done with moving blankets all in NEW condition. The blankets should not be secured with tape, but with special rubberbands. Some case goods are menat to lie on their sides or backs while being transported (or perhaps they will need special crating to raise their delicate legs off the floor of the van because all the jostling and bouncing of the truck could snap those legs like a woman’s hip who has osteoperosis). I hope that this helps to clear up some issues. Watch out. It’s your dime. — Daniel Shafner shafner at earthlink dot net

Response:

… Why not use the regular moving van companies? You say the items are antique. If they are valuable — even if only to you — are you going to chince out and take the chance that maybe someone did an OK job crating/boxing the pieces up? And then maybe a dedicated furniture trucking outfit (like MGM out of High Point, NC and Totowa, NJ) will pack those boxes/crates/cartons in such a way that no transit damage will result by the time you uncrate the items?

I would prefer the items be crated by someone who knows about good furniture. And how do you know that these items were constructed to withstand the rigors of being carted in a crated state (vs. being carted in a blanket-wrapped pappded van or truck)? You don’t.

The bed is (know the maker and condition is excellent), the loveseat maybe not, already know it needs minor repairs; but I’d prefer that they be crated in wooden containers. Are you saying that padding and crating will be harder on a piece than blanket-wrapping? I am a furniture repair technician. I fixed the concealed damages that occur on trucks that haul crated furniture. I also fix the damages that occur on blanket-wrapped items hauled in moving vans/trucks.

Cool. All the moving companies are insured without you buying extra coverage on your items. They will pay $0.60 per POUND on any item that you can substantiate was damaged by them. The burdon of proof is on you. They inventory each item before it is loaded (before it is packed, actually). That means that they look for pre-existing scrathes, dents, mars, soiled marks — anything tghat signifies that the items that they are hauling are not in factory-new condition.

$0.60/pound is just not enough, so in any event I’d have to add insurance. I’d expect a mover to show up with the correct number of crates and each crate intact. …. There’s different types of coverage. Don’t get snookerd by the estimator. At the same time, purchase the coverage that will pay out to you what the item is worth should it be mangled beyonfd repair. If the item is worth something because it is collectable, get coverage that will pay you the difference in value between the item’s current worth and what it is worth after it has to be restored.

OK, thanks. Let me interject here: antique does not equal valuable. Antique does not equal collectable. An item that accrues in value as it gets older is collectable. Just because something is old, it may be venerable, but not necessarily valuable. That’s where appraisers enter the picture. They are the so-called experts on what is collectable.

Yes, I know this. The love seat is a Duncan Phyfe, don’t know the value of the 4-poster. …. I hope that this helps to clear up some issues. Watch out. It’s your dime.

Thank you, Daniel. Pam

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Why not use the regular moving van companies? You say the items are antique. If they are valuable — even if only to you — are you going to chince out and take the chance that maybe someone did an OK job crating/boxing the pieces up? And then maybe a dedicated furniture trucking outfit (like MGM out of High Point, NC and Totowa, NJ) will pack those boxes/crates/cartons in such a way that no transit damage will result by the time you uncrate the items? I would prefer the items be crated by someone who knows about good furniture. And how do you know that these items were constructed to withstand the rigors of being carted in a crated state (vs. being carted in a blanket-wrapped pappded van or truck)? You don’t. The bed is (know the maker and condition is excellent), the loveseat maybe not, already know it needs minor repairs; but I’d prefer that they be crated in wooden containers. Are you saying that padding and crating will be harder on a piece than blanket-wrapping?

If the bed is a modern peice of furniture, then the chances are *better* that the item can withsatnd the rigors of being jostled around in a crate. Every month in "Modern Woodworking" (a tradre magazine for the furniture manufacturing industry) there is a column on the current state of the hauling and transporting of manufactured furniture. Furniture is not only constructed to look good, but it is also engeneered in ways that it should last for X amount of time (let’s say that some manufacturers make *delicate* furniture and it does not seem to hold up that long to ordinary use. Separate from these two issues are engeneering of furniture with the purpose that it withstands the rigors of being shipped (as I have said now a few times). This last standard you cannot be sure of. Sometimes it has nothing to do with the manufacturer. It is something that is individual to each model number in the manufacturer’s inventory. They know when there is a problem when the truckers and retailers start filing their concealed damages claims. The consumer never knows and the consumer has no way of finding out (as if there were a way to find out, and there is not because it is not a science but a gestalt — yes, even us furniture tecks know about the finer aspects of flowery prose). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a furniture repair technician. I fixed the concealed damages that occur on trucks that haul crated furniture. I also fix the damages that occur on blanket-wrapped items hauled in moving vans/trucks. All the moving companies are insured without you buying extra coverage on your items. They will pay $0.60 per POUND on any item that you can substantiate was damaged by them. The burdon of proof is on you. They inventory each item before it is loaded (before it is packed, actually). That means that they look for pre-existing scrathes, dents, mars, soiled marks — anything that signifies that the items that they are hauling are not in factory-new condition. $0.60/pound is just not enough, so in any event I’d have to add insurance. I’d expect a mover to show up with the correct number of crates and each crate intact.

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance [your vigilance, not others]. You can expect them to do the right thing. But it’s up to you to stop the wotrld from turning if something is amiss. Mistakes happen. Carelessness occurs. Negligence is possible. Etc. There’s different types of coverage. Don’t get snookerd by the estimator. At the same time, purchase the coverage that will pay out to you what the item is worth should it be mangled beyonfd repair. If the item is worth something because it is collectable, get coverage that will pay you the difference in value between the item’s current worth and what it is worth after it has to be restored.

Just remember, on your crtaed goods, it will likely be your tough luck (actually "misfortune" is more accurate because "luck" implies a complete randomness of the situation while "misfortune" has conotations that some things are under your control, you being the master of your own ship and making your own informed choices) if when the time for uncrating arrives and something is damaged (and the hauler says that the mishap is the result of a manufacturing defect and not a transit-caused issue). You stand a better chance at recourse with blanket-wrapped goods than you do with crated goods. However, if you have a good knack for intuition and you can get a good sense that the item will hold out well as long as it is crated properly (another big issue in the furniture hauling business), then go for the crating. Why do they call it crating? Let’s take a dresser, for example. The bottom of the dresser is afixed to a crate using straps made of double strength corrugated cardboard. Huge, fat staples are used to secure the cardboard straps. Think of the straps as functioning the way suspenders do on a fireman’s outfit. Then, the carboard carton is placed around the case of the dresser and folded under the crate and stapled to the crate. What you have is something boxed and crated. The item should be wrapped prior to crating with a non-abrasive polyethylene foam. Corner blocks made of thick layers of cardboard are set into place around the top four corners. "L" shaped pieces of cardoard (also very, very thick) are set in along the front edge and back edge. The draswers are secured closed (stretch wrap works great for this). But puncture wounds happen. Crates get dropped alot more than balnket-wrapped furniture gets mistreated. The carton signals a false sense of security to the person unloading the item from the back of a truck. Blanket-wrapped furniture is always carried by [loving] hands, however. And last (for this Usenet message at least), the people who work in furniture stores unloading trucks and uncrating (unpacking) furniture are the ones whoi posess all the anecdotal data on crated hauled furniture. But where are they on this thread? Perhaps when they are off-hours they are in bars inspecting poured-epoxy countertops, tipping wrists of deep-deish olive pies (martinis for folks in Rio Linda) and waiting for w’s Ten Year Plan to save yesterday’s ecconomy (Hey George, tax cuts now, not later). They are cutting loose, not cardboard, and you can bet they ain’t online in the newsgroups checking out the stained cherry threads in rec.woodworking. Me? I’m married and a teatotler and I always hated olives (polluting my vodka back in those days). I have nothing better to do than to go Usenet. I am waiting for some finish to dry… — Daniel Shafner shafner at earthlink dot net

Response:

… If the bed is a modern peice of furniture, then the chances are *better* that the item can withsatnd the rigors of being jostled around in a crate.

No, no, no, no jostling around in a crate. The idea of crating is to secure the item inside the crate, at least that’s what was done with dining table and chairs we had shipped a few years ago, wrapped (some sort of foam), strapped (nylon rope), packed in a lined wooden crate. It was so well packed that it took most of an afternoon to unpack it. … You stand a better chance at recourse with blanket-wrapped goods than you do with crated goods…

OK, understood, nice to know that blanket wrapping is a good option. …Crates get dropped alot more than balnket-wrapped furniture gets mistreated. The carton signals a false sense of security to the person unloading the item from the back of a truck. Blanket-wrapped furniture is always carried by [loving] hands,

Yes, plus the freighters typically travel alone, often without mechanical lifters, kind of difficult to avoid dropping a large crate, just a matter of how far. …

Pam

Response:

… If the bed is a modern peice of furniture, then the chances are *better* that the item can withsatnd the rigors of being jostled around in a crate. No, no, no, no jostling around in a crate. The idea of crating is to secure the item inside the crate, at least that’s what was done with dining table and chairs we had shipped a few years ago, wrapped (some sort of foam), strapped (nylon rope), packed in a lined wooden crate. It was so well packed that it took most of an afternoon to unpack it.

No, you are referring to rattling. Loose items rattle inside of shaken containers. Truck drivers’ kidneys rattle themselves loose from the lining that secures the kidney. So what happens with crtaed furniture? I described crating and how it secures the item to the crate. However, if you have ever ridden in a motor boat where there are some two feet waves or more, that is what is happening to your crates and the items secured within them. They get shock treatment. They get bumped. That’s what goes on inside an 18 wheel trailer, even the air-cushioned rides. The same bumpy ride occurs with blanket wrapped items as well. What holds up better, a crated item (packed according to high standards like what you find with new Thomasville furniture) or blanket wrapped items treated gingerly (like what you find with new Winners Only oak desks)? The weak links are the drivers and the people who load and unload the trucks. For cartoned goods, I like MGM Trucking. If you are thinking of a common carrier, then you might save some money on freight costs, but a carton of furniture gets the same rough treatment as a pallot of wooden slats. Youch! Some things demand crating, regardless of the carrier. Marble tops and statues are a couple of things that come to mind. Bedding (mattresses and box springs) ought to be placed in appropriate sized bedding boxes. Lamps and lamp shades need boxing. Etc. — Daniel Shafner shafner at earthlink dot net

Response:

… So what happens with crtaed furniture? I described crating and how it secures the item to the crate. However, if you have ever ridden in a motor boat where there are some two feet waves or more, that is what is happening to your crates and the items secured within them. They get shock treatment. They get bumped. That’s what goes on inside an 18 wheel trailer, even the air-cushioned rides.

I see, as to crating I was thinking secured/slightly shock absorbed box within a box, so that when the bumping happens the inner box/structure can move enough to tap the cushion, but not enough to bang into the outer box. The inner structure would move as a unit. This may be expecting a bit much. However, you’ve just reminded me of US 40 in western Tennesee and eastern Arkansas, one constant corrugation caused by who knows what; but it’s continuous (may also be the case in western Arkansas, but we gave up well east of Little Rock, took the back roads which were much smoother), and the most irritating, horrible road I can remember travelling. Could always hope the trucker ends up on US 10 instead, but wouldn’t want to count on it. The same bumpy ride occurs with blanket wrapped items as well. What holds up better, a crated item (packed according to high standards like what you find with new Thomasville furniture) or blanket wrapped items treated gingerly (like what you find with new Winners Only oak desks)? The weak links are the drivers and the people who load and unload the trucks. For cartoned goods, I like MGM Trucking. If you are thinking of a common carrier, then you might save some money on freight costs, but a carton of furniture gets the same rough treatment as a pallot of wooden slats. Youch!

I’ll call MGM, see what they have to say. Thank you so much for the referral. Some things demand crating, regardless of the carrier. Marble tops and statues are a couple of things that come to mind. Bedding (mattresses and box springs) ought to be placed in appropriate sized bedding boxes. Lamps and lamp shades need boxing. Etc.

Good point, mattress and box spring for the 4-poster will be shipped, too. Thanks, Pam — Pamela G. Niedermayer Pinehill Softworks Inc. 600 W. 28th St., Suite 103 Austin, TX 78705 512-236-1677 http://www.pinehill.com

Response:

Question:

Snoooorrrrrrrr….. Someone wake me when he has something intelligent to say. Hitman Jr. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh Jeanne decided to come in and play again, tired of beating your dead goat. Please note how the vendor treats people who disagree with him.  In his wedding world, the vendor is always right at all costs "for the good of the industry". . . By the way JH is your real name? Surprise there I thought it was jeanne hinds not JH. Surprise there I thought it was Brian Peterson not "Hitman Jr." and those other attempts of hiding *YOUR* identity? Or is JH your attempt to by-pass all the killfiles you’ve ben put in. Or are those names your attempt to by-pass all the killfiles you’ve ben (sic) put in? I find it so interesting that every once in a while you change your e-mail address and now you don’t even put in your name at the bottom. I find it so interesting that every once in a while you change your e- mail address and now you don’t want to publicize your name despite calling others to do so. Don’t lecture me until you clean up your own act woman. ***OOPS***. . .please note couples how this vendor treats the female detractor by saying her gender in such a way that exposes his true feelings for the female persuasion. . .he uses the word "woman" to show "superiority" over them and that it’s his way of "putting them back into line". Brian, I don’t give a damn *how* angry you are with Jeanne, you simply don’t *talk* to a woman like that!  I was raised that you can disagree with them but you don’t belittle them or hit them! Remember folks, even if you personally disagree with Jeanne, you have to note how the vendor would treat *YOU* if you disagreed with him. Would you like it if he talked to you like that? By the way my name is readily found out as you so gleefully pointed out about 7 months ago. Though some digging was required. . .but I personally didn’t mind because you just never know what kind of *TREASURE* is down there. . .and great dirt!! Also my REAL e-mail address is attached to this. Anyone who would like to e-mail me with a question is perfectly welcome to. Unlike the coward known as the weasel. My e-mail is real too.  Tell Rick Rosen that I can see his lips moving. . .tell your "partner" that your venquilitism act is so bad that it couldn’t even make the cut on the TV morning news/variety show that’s on around here. . .and believe me, they let some acts go on that not only scrap the bottom of the barrel. . .they *GOUGE* it!!  Believe me, "The Ed Sullivan Show" it isn’t! Or you, or do you actually have 5 e-mail addresses at mindspring and if so why. What business is it of yours if she did? The core of the Weasel’s post, (if there is such a thing in the mind of the thing) Careful. . .Sidney Smith said that he would like to be compared to an octopus. . .so in your little world, that makes two "animals" that are here now. . .and if you keep talking the way you are, there will soon be three because you’re acting like a donkey. . .!!!! [snipped as it is going off-topic, it's obvious that the wedding vendor has no concept to the corporate industry as he is hopelessly stuck in the wedding industry mindset and trying to explain it to the wedding vendor is like explaining complex geometry to a three year old] if there is one thing that I’ve learned in the wedding industry over a decade plus, that is it weeds itself out pretty well. Wasn’t it you that mentioned about vendors that worked in your little corner of the world that were in business for twenty years and you thought that they basically stunk?  Looks like you can toss that flimsy theory right out. . . Those who tend to overprice themselves and their services, those who turn in inferior work and those who have no clue are usually out of business fairly quickly. But the wedding industry is overpriced, turns in inferior work, has absolutely no clue and they’re *still* in business. What’s your excuse now? The wedding industry isn’t like the corp world where its who you know and not what you know. It’s obvious that you don’t know the corporate world then. . .Rick’s lips moved again. . . If you don’t deliver in this industry you recieve the boot. (similar to the weasel did) I delivered, but one constantly has to figure out ways how to gyp the couples into either paying or buying more than they need in order to survive in the business when they have no idea what they really are buying.  I wasn’t willing to do that as I felt that it was a cheat. [rest snipped as it is directed towards Jeanne personally] The Weasel – The Official "Weasel" of UseNet!  Accept no substitutes!! — "Now, how would you feel if the same thing was done to you on an internet wedding site read by many prospective clients?  It makes all photographers look bad." – Rick Rosen on rec.photo.technique.people about a post made on the wedding newsgroups about a photographer. Before you buy.

Response:

Oh Jeanne decided to come in and play again, tired of beating your dead goat.

Please note how the vendor treats people who disagree with him.  In his wedding world, the vendor is always right at all costs "for the good of the industry". . . By the way JH is your real name?

Surprise there I thought it was jeanne hinds not JH.

Surprise there I thought it was Brian Peterson not "Hitman Jr." and those other attempts of hiding *YOUR* identity? Or is JH your attempt to by-pass all the killfiles you’ve ben put in.

Or are those names your attempt to by-pass all the killfiles you’ve ben (sic) put in? I find it so interesting that every once in a while you change your e-mail address and now you don’t even put in your name at the bottom.

I find it so interesting that every once in a while you change your e- mail address and now you don’t want to publicize your name despite calling others to do so. Don’t lecture me until you clean up your own act woman.

***OOPS***. . .please note couples how this vendor treats the female detractor by saying her gender in such a way that exposes his true feelings for the female persuasion. . .he uses the word "woman" to show "superiority" over them and that it’s his way of "putting them back into line". Brian, I don’t give a damn *how* angry you are with Jeanne, you simply don’t *talk* to a woman like that!  I was raised that you can disagree with them but you don’t belittle them or hit them! Remember folks, even if you personally disagree with Jeanne, you have to note how the vendor would treat *YOU* if you disagreed with him. Would you like it if he talked to you like that? By the way my name is readily found out as you so gleefully pointed out about 7 months ago.

Though some digging was required. . .but I personally didn’t mind because you just never know what kind of *TREASURE* is down there. . .and great dirt!! Also my REAL e-mail address is attached to this. Anyone who would like to e-mail me with a question is perfectly welcome to. Unlike the coward known as the weasel.

My e-mail is real too.  Tell Rick Rosen that I can see his lips moving. . .tell your "partner" that your venquilitism act is so bad that it couldn’t even make the cut on the TV morning news/variety show that’s on around here. . .and believe me, they let some acts go on that not only scrap the bottom of the barrel. . .they *GOUGE* it!!  Believe me, "The Ed Sullivan Show" it isn’t! Or you, or do you actually have 5 e-mail addresses at mindspring and if so why.

What business is it of yours if she did? The core of the Weasel’s post, (if there is such a thing in the mind of the thing)

Careful. . .Sidney Smith said that he would like to be compared to an octopus. . .so in your little world, that makes two "animals" that are here now. . .and if you keep talking the way you are, there will soon be three because you’re acting like a donkey. . .!!!! [snipped as it is going off-topic, it's obvious that the wedding vendor has no concept to the corporate industry as he is hopelessly stuck in the wedding industry mindset and trying to explain it to the wedding vendor is like explaining complex geometry to a three year old] if there is one thing that I’ve learned in the wedding industry over a decade plus, that is it weeds itself out pretty well.

Wasn’t it you that mentioned about vendors that worked in your little corner of the world that were in business for twenty years and you thought that they basically stunk?  Looks like you can toss that flimsy theory right out. . . Those who tend to overprice themselves and their services, those who turn in inferior work and those who have no clue are usually out of business fairly quickly.

But the wedding industry is overpriced, turns in inferior work, has absolutely no clue and they’re *still* in business. What’s your excuse now? The wedding industry isn’t like the corp world where its who you know and not what you know.

It’s obvious that you don’t know the corporate world then. . .Rick’s lips moved again. . . If you don’t deliver in this industry you recieve the boot. (similar to the weasel did)

I delivered, but one constantly has to figure out ways how to gyp the couples into either paying or buying more than they need in order to survive in the business when they have no idea what they really are buying.  I wasn’t willing to do that as I felt that it was a cheat. [rest snipped as it is directed towards Jeanne personally] The Weasel – The Official "Weasel" of UseNet!  Accept no substitutes!! — "Now, how would you feel if the same thing was done to you on an internet wedding site read by many prospective clients?  It makes all photographers look bad." – Rick Rosen on rec.photo.technique.people about a post made on the wedding newsgroups about a photographer. Before you buy.

Response:

Oh Jeanne decided to come in and play again, tired of beating your dead goat. By the way JH is your real name? Surprise there I thought it was jeanne hinds not JH. Or is JH your attempt to by-pass all the killfiles you’ve ben put in. I find it so interesting that every once in a while you change your e-mail address and now you don’t even put in your name at the bottom. Don’t lecture me until you clean up your own act woman. By the way my name is readily found out as you so gleefully pointed out about 7 months ago. Also my REAL e-mail address is attached to this. Anyone who would like to e-mail me with a question is perfectly welcome to. Unlike the coward known as the weasel. Or you, or do you actually have 5 e-mail addresses at mindspring and if so why. The core of the Weasel’s post, (if there is such a thing in the mind of the thing) is that it is a failure who returns to beat a dead horse when its bored. It has returned to this board again and again to whine and carry on about how crooked the wedding industry is. All the while trumpting its own horn that it has succeded in "marketing" its knick nacks at outrageous prices to the corporate world. In its own words: willing to pay us a living wage (and more)

In other words it found that while the wedding industry wasn’t willing to pay for its over priced trinkets so it went elsewhere where they pay more than its overpriced trinkets are worth. It has continously expounded that B&Gs can not afford and do not deserve its quality of work then it continues to rant and rave how overpriced the wedding market is! If that isn’t the height of being a hipocrite. If a photo, and yes we are talking a photo cannot be afforded by a bride and groom but can be afforded by a corporation then that photo is WAY overpriced. Yet this is what the Weasel keeps champoining, "the wedding consumer needs to watch out, the vendors are overpriced. At the same time I’m the greatest photographer there is, and the wedding industry can’t affod me!" I think the corporate world needs to watch out for the weasel, thats why he refuses to reveal itself. if there is one thing that I’ve learned in the wedding industry over a decade plus, that is it weeds itself out pretty well. Those who tend to overprice themselves and their services, those who turn in inferior work and those who have no clue are usually out of business fairly quickly. The wedding industry isn’t like the corp world where its who you know and not what you know. If you don’t deliver in this industry you recieve the boot. (similar to the weasel did) Jeanne I just love how you take one factor in a piece of history, the factor that supports your contentions, and treat it like the word of god. Example: Most advertising done after the beginning of the Industrial Revolution focussed on creating in the consumer a need which a certain product then fulfilled.  Weddings have certainly become more complicated, elaborate, expensive productions and the various wedding related industries have contributed to this by marketing services or products as "must have" in order to create a need in consumers that they can then fulfill.

Hmmm. Lets put your supposition back into context. while marketing can and does increase interest in various products/services, it can not to the eternal chargin of advertising agents and marketing specialists, create a demand for anything. You can lead a horse to water but not make them drink. There has to be a desire somewhere in the person to begin with for marketing to even begin to work. If your supposition was entirely true then everything created and marketed would still be selling very well for everyone would want everything. Do Beers while very good at marketing, did not create the demand for diamonds, diamonds have been treasured throughout recorded history and before. They "realligned" to some degree what diamonds are used for but they did not create the demand. Long after they are gone the demand for the shinny stones will still exist. The same is for weddings. The desire to have a large and elaborate wedding existed long before the industrial revolution. They did happen long before the industrial revolution. What changed with the industrial revolution is that now the wealth was to some degree distributed more evenly with the "common" person. This allowed the common person to purchase more of what the rich or aristocratic could already to afford. Thus increasing the demand and amount of "eloaborate and large" weddings. A bridal couple does not *need* anything other than their commitment to each other, a marriage license and an officiant to become married.

By the way Rick Martin if Jeannes supposition of the weasel’s post is correct and that is what the weasel was trying to say thru all the whine then I suggest you find another line of work.  Since 1 B&Gs do not "need" pictures. 2 A photographers marketing of pictures is only creating an environment in which the only purpose is to steal from the client. the only thing a B&G needs is a piece of paper from the state and love in their hearts. If they win you’re out of business. Have a nice day. Hitman Jr.

Response:

Let me get this straight. You are a wedding photographer. A person who makes a living off of what the nameless coward says is

Please sign your real name to your posts as well if you are going to continue to hold anonymity in contempt. the industry is nothing more than a bunch of horse fertilizer wrapped up in tissue paper.  The truth of the matter is that people need a professional (fill-in-the-blank) for their wedding as much as Hawaiians need snow shovels. Since you obviously agree with the Weasel, this is your second praising of his writing, I hate to see  how little  you think of the people who purchase your services.

Reread again and comprehend the core message in Weasel’s post.  The wedding industry promotes the idea that bridal consumers *NEED* their services lest they have an embarassing or disappointing wedding day.  The bottom line is that no one NEEDS any of these services to get married (other than a state recognized officiant).  A couple is just as married if they go to a justice of the peace with 1 witness or have an elaborate and large wedding with all the trimmings.  What are labeled as *needs* are really *wants*. Most advertising done after the beginning of the Industrial Revolution focussed on creating in the consumer a need which a certain product then fulfilled.  Weddings have certainly become more complicated, elaborate, expensive productions and the various wedding related industries have contributed to this by marketing services or products as "must have" in order to create a need in consumers that they can then fulfill.  DeBeers has done this masterfully by creating a culture mentality wherein if the man does not spend at least a month’s pay on a diamond engagement ring, he’s doesn’t love his intended that much or is a cheapskate. A bridal couple does not *need* anything other than their commitment to each other, a marriage license and an officiant to become married.

Response:

H man, open your mind a little and read the gist of the text. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me get this straight. You are a wedding photographer. A person who makes a living off of what the nameless coward says is the industry is nothing more than a bunch of horse fertilizer wrapped up in tissue paper.  The truth of the matter is that people need a professional (fill-in-the-blank) for their wedding as much as Hawaiians need snow shovels. Since you obviously agree with the Weasel, this is your second praising of his writing, I hate to see  how little  you think of the people who purchase your services. Hitman Jr. Great writing! — Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

– Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me get this straight. You are a wedding photographer. A person who makes a living off of what the nameless coward says is the industry is nothing more than a bunch of horse fertilizer wrapped up in tissue paper.  The truth of the matter is that people need a professional (fill-in-the-blank) for their wedding as much as Hawaiians need snow shovels. Since you obviously agree with the Weasel, this is your second praising of his writing, I hate to see  how little  you think of the people who purchase your services. Hitman Jr. Great writing! — Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va — Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va H man, open your mind a little and read the gist of the text.

You gotta do better than that Rick Martin.  If your appraisal of this industry is so poor then logic stands that you view your clients with disdain and you ARE exactly the problem weasel is ranting about.  Or are you just trying to stir the pot? Best regards, Rick Rosen Newport Beach, CA www.rickrosen.com

Response:

Great writing! — Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

Response:

Let me get this straight. You are a wedding photographer. A person who makes a living off of what the nameless coward says is the industry is nothing more than a bunch of horse fertilizer wrapped up in tissue paper.  The truth of the matter is that people need a professional (fill-in-the-blank) for their wedding as much as Hawaiians need snow shovels.

Since you obviously agree with the Weasel, this is your second praising of his writing, I hate to see  how little  you think of the people who purchase your services. Hitman Jr. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Great writing! — Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

Response:

Uh huh! — Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

Response:

Uh huh!

That’s enough out of you, Beevis — Joe Pucillo Baltimore, Maryland  USA To reply by email, please remove the .xx from the address.

Response:

bahahahaahahahahaaa Uh huh! That’s enough out of you, Beevis — Joe Pucillo Baltimore, Maryland  USA To reply by email, please remove the .xx from the address.

– Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

Response:

My business and issues should not be brought up on the e-list pronetphoto!

Take it to e-mail guys.

Response:

Perhaps you guys should be introduced to the concept of "e-mail." Just a thought… Ya ya ya ya ya ya ya

– Joe Pucillo Baltimore, Maryland  USA To reply by email, please remove the .xx from the address.

Response:

My business and issues should not be brought up on the e-list pronetphoto! Take it to e-mail guys.

No reason to.  I responded to his sniping post and I’ll leave it at that.  End of discussion for me. Best regards, Rick Rosen Newport Beach, CA www.rickrosen.com

Response:

You are right, I DID invite myself to that issue when I saw two "professional" photographers slamming another professional behind his back on Usenet.  I DO feel that those activities are unprofessional and do paint a bad image of our profession in the eyes of the public.  IMO, your kind is all over this industry, you whine and slam about the success of others to make up for your lack of similar success.

Didn’t you apologize to Martin in rec.photo.technique.people earlier this summer stating your allegations about him "slamming" Fong were incorrect?  As for professionalism,  why don’t you tell the nice readers that you have twice now been inflamatory, unprofessional behavior?  One more time and you are booted off of pronetphoto.  We of alt.wedding should be so lucky. I’ll consider myself warned.

Consider yourself doubly warned.

Response:

have twice now been

They make groups like that private to keep folks like you out. Take the hint.

Response:

have twice now been They make groups like that private to keep folks like you out. Take the hint.

I am not in that group, Mr. Morgan.

Response:

They make groups like that private to keep folks like you out. Take the hint. I am not in that group, Mr. Morgan.

I know. Just your nose is.

Response:

Didn’t you apologize to Martin in rec.photo.technique.people earlier this summer stating your allegations about him "slamming" Fong were incorrect?  

Jeanne, Why don’t you just keep your nose out of other people’s business.  I have watched in silence lately as you pulled "facts" off Usenet and used them to pass your judgements on a few others here.  IMO, you are a Usenet stalker. For the record, I did apologize to Martin because I incorrectly credited him for ONE part of the attack he and your buddy wedding photographer John Douglas wrote.  I stand by my position that his and Douglas’ slamming of another photographer behind his back was a very unprofessional thing to do.  Martin was equally involved in that slam-fest but I incorrectly attributed a specific comment to him that was made by Douglas.  He went on for months whining about how I lied about his post so I researched it and immediately corrected myself on one specific post.  Sometimes it just gets hard to identify who threw a specific pile of poop when it is all over the wall.  It was simply a matter of which photographer said what in the context of that slam-fest.  Incidentally Jeanne, where is your good friend Douglas these days, the wedding photographer that you have so highly recommended?  I don’t see him posting here any more.  I hear he left New Jersey and moved to Tennessee? It is also very telling to me and I hope to others that you have stood behind these two photographers even though their behavior in the eyes of many here has been highly unprofessional.  One of your photo buddies even skipped town on his clients.  Watch it Ms Hinds, your "advocacy" IMO is very telling. As for professionalism,  why don’t you tell the nice readers that you have twice now been inflamatory, unprofessional behavior?  One more time and you are booted off of pronetphoto.  

Pronetphoto business will remain on pronetphoto newsgroup.  You, once again, are twisting the truth to us it as an attack.  Last I noticed you were not a member of pronetphoto. We of alt.wedding should be so lucky.

I am sure if a vote was taken here Ms Hinds, I would not be the one that would be leaving. I’ll consider myself warned. Consider yourself doubly warned.

You know something Ms Hinds. You have been threatening me with some form of complaint for over a year now.  Why don’t you just as the saying goes "put up or shut up"?  If you feel a complaint on me is warranted then, by all means, PLEASE file it.  If it is not filed then why not shut up about it already. Now, go castrate a goat or something. Best regards, Rick Rosen Newport Beach, CA www.rickrosen.com

Response:

<< Rosen, you continue to run your mouth on that e-list about me and the situation I was involved in. You invited yourself to that issue. You should have kept your nose out of it. I can file a complaint against you as well for your comments about me. You have been warned! What e-list and what post are you referring to?  I don’t have a clue.  I defy you to post it or email it to me.   You are right, I DID invite myself to that issue when I saw two "professional" photographers slamming another professional behind his back on Usenet.  I DO feel that those activities are unprofessional and do paint a bad image of our profession in the eyes of the public.  IMO, your kind is all over this industry, you whine and slam about the success of others to make up for your lack of similar success.   Frankly, Martin, your lack of professionalism (under whatever name you choose to post behind) does not concern me at all until it is addressed at me directly.   I’ll consider myself warned. Best regards, Rick Rosen Newport Beach, CA www.rickrosen.com

Response:

pronetphoto is what I am refering to. And you do know what you said! You took the first swipe by calling me a jerk photographer and continued on from there with threats about something with Fuji over on another board. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << Rosen, you continue to run your mouth on that e-list about me and the situation I was involved in. You invited yourself to that issue. You should have kept your nose out of it. I can file a complaint against you as well for your comments about me. You have been warned! What e-list and what post are you referring to?  I don’t have a clue.  I defy you to post it or email it to me. You are right, I DID invite myself to that issue when I saw two "professional" photographers slamming another professional behind his back on Usenet.  I DO feel that those activities are unprofessional and do paint a bad image of our profession in the eyes of the public.  IMO, your kind is all over this industry, you whine and slam about the success of others to make up for your lack of similar success. Frankly, Martin, your lack of professionalism (under whatever name you choose to post behind) does not concern me at all until it is addressed at me directly. I’ll consider myself warned. Best regards, Rick Rosen Newport Beach, CA www.rickrosen.com

– Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

Response:

pronetphoto is what I am refering to. And you do know what you said! You took the first swipe by calling me a jerk photographer and continued on from there with threats about something with Fuji over on another board.

Rick, I will not discuss any ProNetPhoto business outside of ProNetPhoto. As for the issue with Fuji.  You posted on r.p.t.p. that you were opening your own web site, www.pronetphoto.com.  I remarked that was a *catchy name*. Obviously you were intending to use a name that was already in use by well-known newsgroup and also by Fuji.  IMO, it was just another of your sour-grapes sniping at a private newsgroup that denied you admission.  (That is already public knowledge brought out by you originally in your whining posts so it is not private pronetphoto business.)  I simply commented that I would contact a friend at Fuji to see if the name was trademarked by them.  If you want to call that a "threat" so be it.   Keep digging yourself into a hole of unprofessionalism if you wish. Best regards, Rick Rosen Newport Beach, CA www.rickrosen.com

Response:

pronetphoto is not in use by Fuji! I am digging nothing. You are simply caught up in your own delusions of grandeur! My business and issues should not be brought up on the e-list pronetphoto! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – pronetphoto is what I am refering to. And you do know what you said! You took the first swipe by calling me a jerk photographer and continued on from there with threats about something with Fuji over on another board. Rick, I will not discuss any ProNetPhoto business outside of ProNetPhoto. As for the issue with Fuji.  You posted on r.p.t.p. that you were opening your own web site, www.pronetphoto.com.  I remarked that was a *catchy name*. Obviously you were intending to use a name that was already in use by well-known newsgroup and also by Fuji.  IMO, it was just another of your sour-grapes sniping at a private newsgroup that denied you admission.  (That is already public knowledge brought out by you originally in your whining posts so it is not private pronetphoto business.)  I simply commented that I would contact a friend at Fuji to see if the name was trademarked by them.  If you want to call that a "threat" so be it. Keep digging yourself into a hole of unprofessionalism if you wish. Best regards, Rick Rosen Newport Beach, CA www.rickrosen.com

– Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

Response:

Rosen, you continue to run your mouth on that e-list about me and the situation I was involved in. You invited yourself to that issue. You should have kept your nose out of it. I can file a complaint against you as well for your comments about me. You have been warned! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How about that sig file? — Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va You know Rick, I would have thought that you had learned your lesson by now about harassing other photographers here on Usenet.  But, I guess not.  Some people I guess are just unprofessional and really love that game. Now, about that weasel sig file: <<The Weasel – The Official "Weasel" of UseNet!  Accept no substitutes!! — "Now, how would you feel if the same thing was done to you on an internet wedding site read by many prospective clients?  It makes all photographers look bad." – Rick Rosen on rec.photo.technique.people about a post made on the wedding newsgroups about a photographer. As you know my comments relate to a series of posts by you and another photographer which were critical of a nationally-recognized wedding photographer who was/is not present on Usenet.  In summary, you were slamming his work behind his back and the "I’ll take your money and move out-of-state with your wedding pictures" photographer was libeling him and doing his unprofessional best to slam his success.  You two were having great fun at his expense and not even in a forum where he was active and could defend himself. My comment was addressed at how unprofessional it was for two wedding photographers to go after another professional like that behind his back.  I stand by that comment and this industry is full of jerks who love to slam the more successful among them.  Obviously, with your history of harassment of other photographers your ethics are a bit different from mine. And before you or our resident "advocate" or weasel or any of our anonymous cowardly trolls jumps back with some comment about how I was critical of a photographer that took his client’s money and did not deliver their photos so I am "harassing" other photographers as well.  I’d be careful about that one.  He was still taking clients and their deposits from alt.wedding when his problems surfaced.  If you or any of our misfits condones that activity so be it.  I do not, many other profesionals do not and I received a commendation from PPA National for my stance. Rick Martin, if you keep up this sniping at me and other photographers I will file a complaint with PPA.  You have been warned. Now, back to ignoring our trolls. Best regards, Rick Rosen Newport Beach, CA www.rickrosen.com

– Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

Response:

How about that sig file? — Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

Response:

How about that sig file? — Rick Martin,AFP http://www.rickmartin.com   Manassas,Va

Yes Rick…what’s that…a one line post to show your sig file? Sidney Smith Eustis, FL