Question:

Take a look at the Rinker 19′.  You’ll be pleasantly surprised.

Response:

What a drag…our only tiny little piece of power however is as a consumer.  There is way too much competition to put up with this.  Thanks Harry…as I look for my first boat, Chris Craft can be rest assured they won’t be selling a boat to me. SF – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – read.news.verio.net, I’m going to be a first time owner and I’m looking at new boats. I could use a little help in my decision. They are all 19′ Bowriders w/4.3L Volvo Penta’s. All are within the same price range, about $18,900. 1)1999 Chris Craft (I’m not crazy about the rear bench seat/I like removable carpet w/fiber glass deck) 2)2000 SeaRay (not crazy about wood deck w/ non- removable carpet) 3)2000 Regal LSR (not crazy about wood deck w/ non-removable carpet/but with life warranty) Anyone have any comments on any of these boats? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff I am a owner of a New Chris Craft 210 Open Bow, with a 5.7L Volvo Penta.  The boat has a full page of broken Items, some that have been addressed by Chris Craft, some that Chris Craft does not feel is there problem.  The primary issue is the Engine.  After the 20hr service, a very noticable loss of power and missfiring engine left me with a new boat that so far has spent in excess of 40 days in the shop.  Volvo at one point said there was nothing they could do, that is until I appeared on TV, with a Consumer Action Group.  As far a Chris Craft is concerned, there is nothing they can or will do since they did not make the motor.  The list of other items is way to long to go into here, but I would be glad to fax, or Email them to you.  It ranges from electrical power failures (real fun at night) to Seat filler cushions that don’t fit, to the Chris Craft emblem itself coming off the boat.  I have given Chris Craft multiple oportunities to make this right, and they have dragged this out endlessly.  I have even offered to trailer the boat down to them hoping to get everything fixed once and for all.  I personaly feel very screwed and disappointed by an esablished company that boasts "125 years of Quality boats".  I am now considering legal action against Chris Craft.  These are warrantee items and may get fixed, but meanwhile I have no boat, only payments. feel free to email me at Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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GOD Bless union people,America needs them

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How come we never hear from Jeff Baldwin? GB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Harry, My guess is that the owner is out of his mind to let a cream puff like this go at such a LOW PRICE.  I know if I was in the market for a boat, wither I thought I wanted a fishing boat, a fish/ski combo, a sportfisherman or a glass bottom boat, I would have to BUY this boat just because it is such a steal. I just hope someone buys the boat before he is committed for letting it go for such a cheap price. — Jim 1994 Regal 256 for sale – see ad at http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C189+R1187463 Harry, Damn, I did find ONE such boat.  It is listed in the Classified 2000 section of excite. you can reach the sale site by clicking on the following link: http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C189+R1187463 Jeff, I think you will find that this ad is probably the ONLY boat that will ever meet your needs. Let me know if I can be of any more assistance. — Jim Well, it sounds like a great boat to me. Does the owner realize what he is doing? Hmmm. Is it equipped with the requisite number of Boat Bimbettes? — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Friends don’t let friends cross picket lines.

Response:

read.news.verio.net, I’m going to be a first time owner and I’m

looking at new boats. I could use a little help in my decision. They are all 19′

Bowriders w/4.3L Volvo Penta’s. All are within the same price range, about $18,900. 1)1999 Chris Craft (I’m not crazy about the

rear bench seat/I like removable carpet w/fiber glass deck) 2)2000 SeaRay (not crazy about wood deck w/ non- removable carpet) 3)2000 Regal LSR (not crazy about wood deck w/

non-removable carpet/but with life warranty) Anyone have any comments on any of these boats? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff

I am a owner of a New Chris Craft 210 Open Bow, with a 5.7L Volvo Penta.  The boat has a full page of broken Items, some that have been addressed by Chris Craft, some that Chris Craft does not feel is there problem.  The primary issue is the Engine.  After the 20hr service, a very noticable loss of power and missfiring engine left me with a new boat that so far has spent in excess of 40 days in the shop.  Volvo at one point said there was nothing they could do, that is until I appeared on TV, with a Consumer Action Group.  As far a Chris Craft is concerned, there is nothing they can or will do since they did not make the motor.  The list of other items is way to long to go into here, but I would be glad to fax, or Email them to you.  It ranges from electrical power failures (real fun at night) to Seat filler cushions that don’t fit, to the Chris Craft emblem itself coming off the boat.  I have given Chris Craft multiple oportunities to make this right, and they have dragged this out endlessly.  I have even offered to trailer the boat down to them hoping to get everything fixed once and for all.  I personaly feel very screwed and disappointed by an esablished company that boasts "125 years of Quality boats".  I am now considering legal action against Chris Craft.  These are warrantee items and may get fixed, but meanwhile I have no boat, only payments. feel free to email me at Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Some eroneous information was just part of a response i.e. : Bayliner brand (subsidiary of Brunswick) is available only with Mercruiser I/O units.  Bayliners are, in fact, available in outboard configuration and with the actually superior (sorry GM  Mercruiser fans) OMC I/O units. Not rumor, I own one—-no troubles at all.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree with Karl on the hull design of the Regal. The FasTrac "type" hull that’s used on Fountain’s and other sport boats really lets the Regal fly. In this size boat, I would choose the Regal if performance was your #1 concern. I’m not so sure I agree with the Karl on SX drive being superior to the new generation Alpha1 MerCruiser. Alpha 1’s are the leader in the I/O business for a number of reasons. Mostly because they are durable, low in maintenance requirements and costs and the parts/repair network is very strong. Can’t say the same for Volve Penta, although the SX has received many good reviews. Take a look at the construction of the SX drives .vs. the Alphas. Let’s go through a few things… 1.  The SX has a rear oil pump at the lower end of the unit – the Mercruiser    does not.  This keeps the lower unit oil circulating (a big deal as    anyone who has had problems with lubrication in an I/O will attest)    Forced lubrication wins every day in my book. And if the pump fails so does the lower unit.

If the pump fails you’re in big shit because its an integral part of the front lower bearing housing.  This is true regardless of which drive you have. 2.  The SX has a beefier transmission clutch system for shifting than the    Mercruiser.  Look at the two and tell me which one is better    designed….. again, an expensive thing to fix if you have problems    with it. I have owned 4 alphas an never had a problem.

That’s nice, but the point remains. 3.  The SX has a shear plate in the upper part of the unit that will shear    off if you hit something really hard (prop strike, particularly with a    stainless prop).  The mercruiser lacks this, which means that instead of    shearing a reasonably-inexpensive piece of metal you screw up the gears    and/or bend the propshaft.  Either is a MAJOR repair .vs. a relatively    minor one.  Both will strand you, but the SX will be cheaper to get back    in the water by a longshot after such an event. The props for the alpha have a plastic hub that gives way in case of an impact, and this can be replaced while the boat is in the water not leaving you to be towed in.

MAYBE.  Aftermarket props (ie: Stainless) may not have one, or it may be rubber, and PERHAPS it gives way. You can always use a prop with a hub insert.  You can also have the insert spin when you haven’t hit anything, and the hub may not protect the drive. 4. The SX has an input shaft that is much beefier than the Alpha; again,   strength is a good thing. 5. The SX’s gear set is helical engagement .vs. straight-cut engagement;   the strength difference here is *enormous*. Again in 10 years and 4 Alphas never a problem and anyone who knows me would tell you that I am hard on a boat.

Again, that its never broken on you doesn’t mean that they’re better in design. The warranty on the two bears this out. Mercury offers a year; the standard Penta SX drive warranty is two years. You can buy extended warranties on both, but what the manufacturer gives you out of the box says a lot about how they believe the unit will hold up in the real world. Not  agood argument. Most hand held VHF’s are now being touted as being waterproof even though in most cases the manufactures have made no changes. Its just a selling point.

Sure it is.  If Mercury won’t back it for 2 years, then in year two YOU eat the cost of repairs.  Volvo backs the drive for two years – in the second year THEY eat the cost of repairs. The Alpha 1 isn’t a bad drive, but its not up to the performance and horsepower handling levels of the SX, nor do I believe it will it last as long without major service work. If Mercury was convinced their drive was as durable as the SX they’d match their warranty terms.  They don’t, and that says quite a bit to me. See last answer

See mine. I also find it interesting that while the costs are quite comparable at the dealer level for each, those who carry and can order both almost universally recommend the SX. And when was this study done?

Why don’t you ask a few non-Brunswick dealers? Mercury has a hammer-lock on a lot of boat lines.  Since Brunswick owns them, anything they make is going to have a Mercruiser I/O in it (Sea Ray, Bayliner, Maxxum, etc). True That artificially inflates their market share beyond what it would be in a truly competitive marketplace Even without their own boat brands Mercury has more installed units.

Look at what’s selling NOW.  Remove Brunswick brands and you find a very, very different story. And as for HP rating Mercury makes a number of drives not a one size fits all and the alpha is plenty strong enough for a 5,7L When I watch the boat races and see mercury everywhere that is proof enough for me. Gary Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners

When you bought a Bayliner you bought a Mercruiser drive, like it or not. Being forced into something has a funny way of twisting the analysis of whether that is a "good" or "bad" thing. — — Tired of the broken divorce system in the United States and what it’s doing to our kids?  SIGN the online petition for equal parental – and children’s – rights at the above URL.  Make a difference in a kid’s life today. Real-time chat now available from the above web page

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Harry, Damn, I did find ONE such boat.  It is listed in the Classified 2000 section of excite. you can reach the sale site by clicking on the following link: http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C189+R1187463 Jeff, I think you will find that this ad is probably the ONLY boat that will ever meet your needs. Let me know if I can be of any more assistance. — Jim

Well, it sounds like a great boat to me. Does the owner realize what he is doing?

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Harry, Let me do a quick deja snooze and I will see if I can find any such boats. — Jim 1994 Regal 256 for sale – see ad at http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C189+R1187463

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff, I have to be completely honest with you.  I think you are all wrong on your 3 choices.  In my humble opinion, the ONLY boat for you is a used boat in the 24-26 ft. range.  The boat should be about 5 to 6 yrs old, maintained and used exclusively in a fresh water lake.  Ideally the boat would allow you to pull watertoys and skiers, be economical to use and be manufactured by a reliable company such as Regal Marine. I am sure if you look at some of the used boats in the marketplace you can find a super value that will exceed all of your expectations. Sincerely, — Jim Jim: Would you happen to know anyone who has such a pristine boat for sale? Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Are you sure it isn’t time for a colorful metaphor?

Response:

Harry, Damn, I did find ONE such boat.  It is listed in the Classified 2000 section of excite. you can reach the sale site by clicking on the following link: http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C189+R1187463 Jeff, I think you will find that this ad is probably the ONLY boat that will ever meet your needs. Let me know if I can be of any more assistance. — Jim 1994 Regal 256 for sale – see ad at http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C189+R1187463

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Harry, Let me do a quick deja snooze and I will see if I can find any such boats. — Jim 1994 Regal 256 for sale – see ad at http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C189+R1187463 Jeff, I have to be completely honest with you.  I think you are all wrong on your 3 choices.  In my humble opinion, the ONLY boat for you is a used boat in the 24-26 ft. range.  The boat should be about 5 to 6 yrs old, maintained and used exclusively in a fresh water lake.  Ideally the boat would allow you to pull watertoys and skiers, be economical to use and be manufactured by a reliable company such as Regal Marine. I am sure if you look at some of the used boats in the marketplace you can find a super value that will exceed all of your expectations. Sincerely, — Jim Jim: Would you happen to know anyone who has such a pristine boat for sale? Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Are you sure it isn’t time for a colorful metaphor?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff, I have to be completely honest with you.  I think you are all wrong on your 3 choices.  In my humble opinion, the ONLY boat for you is a used boat in the 24-26 ft. range.  The boat should be about 5 to 6 yrs old, maintained and used exclusively in a fresh water lake.  Ideally the boat would allow you to pull watertoys and skiers, be economical to use and be manufactured by a reliable company such as Regal Marine. I am sure if you look at some of the used boats in the marketplace you can find a super value that will exceed all of your expectations. Sincerely, — Jim

Jim: Would you happen to know anyone who has such a pristine boat for sale? Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - Are you sure it isn’t time for a colorful metaphor?

Response:

Jeff, I have to be completely honest with you.  I think you are all wrong on your 3 choices.  In my humble opinion, the ONLY boat for you is a used boat in the 24-26 ft. range.  The boat should be about 5 to 6 yrs old, maintained and used exclusively in a fresh water lake.  Ideally the boat would allow you to pull watertoys and skiers, be economical to use and be manufactured by a reliable company such as Regal Marine. I am sure if you look at some of the used boats in the marketplace you can find a super value that will exceed all of your expectations. Sincerely, — Jim 1994 Regal 256 for sale – see ad at http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C189+R1187463

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m going to be a first time owner and I’m looking at new boats. I could use a little help in my decision. They are all 19′ Bowriders w/4.3L Volvo Penta’s. All are within the same price range, about $18,900. 1)1999 Chris Craft (I’m not crazy about the rear bench seat/I like removable carpet w/fiber glass deck) 2)2000 SeaRay (not crazy about wood deck w/ non-removable carpet) 3)2000 Regal LSR (not crazy about wood deck w/ non-removable carpet/but with life warranty) Anyone have any comments on any of these boats? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff

Response:

Gary and Karl both have good arguments here maintaining that it’s a matter of preference and ownership trade-offs. Do you want the SX for all its additional "beef", or do you choose a time-proven product with parts and repair networks nearby in almost every state? I concede that the SX has received good reviews, but again for the money, ease of repair ( when and if you need it ) and the massive dealer network, I would choose the Alpha1. Volvo Penta is a solid drive, but their construction lends ( in my opinion ) to much a more labor-intensive job in small fixes ( Dave could weigh in on this to confirm ). Parts ( from my past ownership of a boat with DuoProp ) are hard to get and more costly than MerCruiser parts when comparing apples to apples ( I know this from experience also ). That is, unless you have a very well-stocked and high volume Volvo Penta dealer network close by. My preference would come mostly from that fact that I have found the mechanics really skilled in Volvo Penta are hard to find. At least in my part of New England. We can talk specs all day, and we may compare construction and durability as well. All I can say is the Alpha1 will last for decades with proper maintenance and under normal and reasonable use. BK PS ( remember that the internal thrust hubs on Merc props absorb much of the impact from accidental strikes. Of course.. being careful is always a good preventative for a lower end rebuild. )

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree with Karl on the hull design of the Regal. The FasTrac "type" hull that’s used on Fountain’s and other sport boats really lets the Regal fly. In this size boat, I would choose the Regal if performance was your #1 concern. I’m not so sure I agree with the Karl on SX drive being superior to the new generation Alpha1 MerCruiser. Alpha 1’s are the leader in the I/O business for a number of reasons. Mostly because they are durable, low in maintenance requirements and costs and the parts/repair network is very strong. Can’t say the same for Volve Penta, although the SX has received many good reviews. Take a look at the construction of the SX drives .vs. the Alphas. Let’s go through a few things… 1.  The SX has a rear oil pump at the lower end of the unit – the Mercruiser    does not.  This keeps the lower unit oil circulating (a big deal as    anyone who has had problems with lubrication in an I/O will attest)    Forced lubrication wins every day in my book.

And if the pump fails so does the lower unit. 2.  The SX has a beefier transmission clutch system for shifting than the    Mercruiser.  Look at the two and tell me which one is better    designed….. again, an expensive thing to fix if you have problems    with it.

I have owned 4 alphas an never had a problem. 3.  The SX has a shear plate in the upper part of the unit that will shear    off if you hit something really hard (prop strike, particularly with a    stainless prop).  The mercruiser lacks this, which means that instead of    shearing a reasonably-inexpensive piece of metal you screw up the gears    and/or bend the propshaft.  Either is a MAJOR repair .vs. a relatively    minor one.  Both will strand you, but the SX will be cheaper to get back    in the water by a longshot after such an event.

The props for the alpha have a plastic hub that gives way in case of an impact, and this can be replaced while the boat is in the water not leaving you to be towed in. 4. The SX has an input shaft that is much beefier than the Alpha; again,   strength is a good thing. 5. The SX’s gear set is helical engagement .vs. straight-cut engagement;   the strength difference here is *enormous*.

Again in 10 years and 4 Alphas never a problem and anyone who knows me would tell you that I am hard on a boat. The warranty on the two bears this out. Mercury offers a year; the standard Penta SX drive warranty is two years. You can buy extended warranties on both, but what the manufacturer gives you out of the box says a lot about how they believe the unit will hold up in the real world.

Not  agood argument. Most hand held VHF’s are now being touted as being waterproof even though in most cases the manufactures have made no changes. Its just a selling point. The Alpha 1 isn’t a bad drive, but its not up to the performance and horsepower handling levels of the SX, nor do I believe it will it last as long without major service work. If Mercury was convinced their drive was as durable as the SX they’d match their warranty terms.  They don’t, and that says quite a bit to me.

See last answer I also find it interesting that while the costs are quite comparable at

the dealer level for each, those who carry and can order both almost universally recommend the SX. And when was this study done? Mercury has a hammer-lock on a lot of boat lines.  Since Brunswick owns them, anything they make is going to have a Mercruiser I/O in it (Sea Ray, Bayliner, Maxxum, etc).

True That artificially inflates their market share beyond what it would be in a truly competitive marketplace

Even without their own boat brands Mercury has more installed units. And as for HP rating Mercury makes a number of drives not a one size fits all and the alpha is plenty strong enough for a 5,7L When I watch the boat races and see mercury everywhere that is proof enough for me. Gary Another member of The Loyal Order Of Bayliner Owners

Response:

I’m going to be a first time owner and I’m looking at new boats. I could use a little help in my decision. They are all 19′ Bowriders w/4.3L Volvo Penta’s. All are within the same price range, about $18,900. 1)1999 Chris Craft (I’m not crazy about the rear bench seat/I like removable carpet w/fiber glass deck) 2)2000 SeaRay (not crazy about wood deck w/ non-removable carpet) 3)2000 Regal LSR (not crazy about wood deck w/ non-removable carpet/but with life warranty) Anyone have any comments on any of these boats? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff

Response:

You aren’t going to find many boats in this size and price range with fiberglass liners and removable carpets.  They are 3 of the better lines of boats though.  SeaRay will have the most name recognition when it comes time to sell it.  Followed by the Chris Craft and then the Regal. The prices seem about right for each.  You really have to drive them all, and see which feels the most comfortable.  Try to find a place where you can experience different types of conditions though.  A nice lake on a windy day, where they may be some sections that are calm, and some that are rougher.  Boats act totally different in these situations. 1)1999 Chris Craft (I’m not crazy about the rear bench seat/I like

removable carpet w/fiber glass deck) Chris Craft is the top of the line for the OMC boat lines.  I like the looks of it, and the reviews have been fairly positive.  Probaly the heaviest of the 3 (if I had to guess) so it will probably be the best of the 3 in rougher waters, but will sacrafice some speed on the top end. 2)2000 SeaRay (not crazy about wood deck w/ non-removable carpet)

Good boat also. Not the boat they used to be, but definitely a company you know will be around.  Other threads on this NG hint at price fixing from the distributors.   Didn’t think you can get the SeaRay with a Volvo-Penta drive, since they are owned by Brunswick (aka Mercruiser). Probably the middle of the 3 for speed and rough water ride. 3)2000 Regal LSR (not crazy about wood deck w/ non-removable

Probably going to be the fastest of the 3 because of the stepped hull, especially in calm water, haven’t heard the greatest things about handling in tight turns and rougher water. Hope that helps a little… Steve — In a World of Compromise, Some Don’t… Cobalt Boats H&K Pistols Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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