Question:

Has anyone ever stopped at the Gatun Yacht Club on a cruise?  It looked like a good idea for a few hours off the ship, but I would still love to get a tour of the locks as some of the other excursions offered. Bill

Response:

Not much to do for a few hours. Local girls will pose with you. Snacks & souveniers to buy. Small beach for swimming. Take a tour of the locks. Or take the train excursion. From the caribbean side to the Pacific side. Florence < —- loved viewing the canal passage thru the first 3 locks.

Response:

Bill,     Went there this year on Rotterdam (HAL) southern Carib. We basically went into the canal through the Gatun locks (east Side) and then stopped on the lake. Panama didn’t allow any unescorted excursions so you had to take a tour or go to the Gatun Yacht Club. We went to the Yacht club. You dock with the tenders. Theres a small snack bar, Native Indians do traditional dances and talk about the local culture. There was a large bus selling T-shirts etc, and a group of the local Indians selling crafts. I bought a straw mask of a Bat. They had taken Cartegenia Columbia off the cruise itinery due to problems in Columbia. Sales of Columbian Emerald Jewelery was moved to the yacht club in Panama. My wife  bought a rough emerald ring. (cost a lot more than the mask). Since you transit the Gatun Locks going in and out we felt we had seen enough of the operation. although some more detailed looks at the workings etc might have been interesting. I got some colorful shots of the traditional dances etc. It wasn’t that exciting we went back to the ship before the final dance. There was another all day tour by rail to the other side of the Canal. The folks who took that seemed to enjoy it. The cruise video of this looked interesting. We opted against this after seeing some negative posts on this newsboard that talked about the train being overcrowed and having mechanical difficulties and returning without reaching the other side. Didn’t hear any negatives on our cruise. You may want to post a question about what other tours folks would recommend and why. Val Kraut

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever stopped at the Gatun Yacht Club on a cruise?  It looked like a good idea for a few hours off the ship, but I would still love to get a tour of the locks as some of the other excursions offered. Bill

Response:

Has anyone ever stopped at the Gatun Yacht Club on a cruise?  It looked like a good idea for a few hours off the ship, but I would still love to get a tour of the locks as some of the other excursions offered. Bill

Response:

Not much to do for a few hours. Local girls will pose with you. Snacks & souveniers to buy. Small beach for swimming. Take a tour of the locks. Or take the train excursion. From the caribbean side to the Pacific side. Florence < —- loved viewing the canal passage thru the first 3 locks.

Response:

Bill,     Went there this year on Rotterdam (HAL) southern Carib. We basically went into the canal through the Gatun locks (east Side) and then stopped on the lake. Panama didn’t allow any unescorted excursions so you had to take a tour or go to the Gatun Yacht Club. We went to the Yacht club. You dock with the tenders. Theres a small snack bar, Native Indians do traditional dances and talk about the local culture. There was a large bus selling T-shirts etc, and a group of the local Indians selling crafts. I bought a straw mask of a Bat. They had taken Cartegenia Columbia off the cruise itinery due to problems in Columbia. Sales of Columbian Emerald Jewelery was moved to the yacht club in Panama. My wife  bought a rough emerald ring. (cost a lot more than the mask). Since you transit the Gatun Locks going in and out we felt we had seen enough of the operation. although some more detailed looks at the workings etc might have been interesting. I got some colorful shots of the traditional dances etc. It wasn’t that exciting we went back to the ship before the final dance. There was another all day tour by rail to the other side of the Canal. The folks who took that seemed to enjoy it. The cruise video of this looked interesting. We opted against this after seeing some negative posts on this newsboard that talked about the train being overcrowed and having mechanical difficulties and returning without reaching the other side. Didn’t hear any negatives on our cruise. You may want to post a question about what other tours folks would recommend and why. Val Kraut

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever stopped at the Gatun Yacht Club on a cruise?  It looked like a good idea for a few hours off the ship, but I would still love to get a tour of the locks as some of the other excursions offered. Bill

Response:

Question:

My mother would dearly love some regular sized metal sporks but cannot find them anywhere. We’ve looked through google, but you just find a lot of complaining that no one can find them. Anyone know where we could order them? Thanks a bunch! Karen

Response:

My mother would dearly love some regular sized metal sporks but cannot find them anywhere. We’ve looked through google, but you just find a lot of complaining that no one can find them. Anyone know where we could order them? Thanks a bunch!

Uh…. What’s a "spork"?  (If I knew what they were, I’d know whether I could susggest a source for them.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Karen

Response:

My mother would dearly love some regular sized metal sporks but cannot find them anywhere. We’ve looked through google, but you just find a lot of complaining that no one can find them. Anyone know where we could order them? Thanks a bunch! Karen

(Posted & emailed) EBAY!  I just did a search there; eBay has one listing for a set of Sheffield metal sporks.  Hurry, the auction ends tomorrow night.

Response:

My mother would dearly love some regular sized metal sporks but cannot find them anywhere. We’ve looked through google, but you just find a lot of complaining that no one can find them. Anyone know where we could order them? Thanks a bunch! Uh…. What’s a "spork"?  (If I knew what they were, I’d know whether I could susggest a source for them.)

It’s a spoon, no, wait, it’s a fork!  It’s a spoon with tines on it.  It’s a spork!  Originally designed for use with ice cream, then manufactured as plastic cutlery by the people who run Kentucky Fried Chicken (ostensibly for their mashed potatoes).  The spork is a multi-purpose implement.  I just found her a metal set made by Sheffield in a Loxley pattern on eBay. Jill

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mother would dearly love some regular sized metal sporks but cannot find them anywhere. We’ve looked through google, but you just find a lot of complaining that no one can find them. Anyone know where we could order them? Thanks a bunch! Uh…. What’s a "spork"?  (If I knew what they were, I’d know whether I could susggest a source for them.) Karen

It’s a cross between a spoon and a fork. You get plastic ones at some restaraunts and in school lunches. Handy gadgets. Karen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mother would dearly love some regular sized metal sporks but cannot find them anywhere. We’ve looked through google, but you just find a lot of complaining that no one can find them. Anyone know where we could order them? Thanks a bunch! Karen (Posted & emailed) EBAY!  I just did a search there; eBay has one listing for a set of Sheffield metal sporks.  Hurry, the auction ends tomorrow night.

Thanks! I just bid on them. Karen

Response:

things to say about Re: OT: Sporks: Uh…. What’s a "spork"?  (If I knew what they were, I’d know whether I could susggest a source for them.) It’s a spoon, no, wait, it’s a fork!  It’s a spoon with tines on it.  It’s a spork!  Originally designed for use with ice cream, then manufactured as plastic cutlery by the people who run Kentucky Fried Chicken (ostensibly for their mashed potatoes).  The spork is a multi-purpose implement.  I just found her a metal set made by Sheffield in a Loxley pattern on eBay.

Most Taco Bell restaurants also have plastic ones on hand. — "Don’t mess with major appliances unless you know what you are doing (or unless your life insurance policy is up-to-date)." – John, RCFL

Response:

It’s a spoon, no, wait, it’s a fork!  It’s a spoon with tines on it.  It’s a spork!  Originally designed for use with ice cream, then manufactured as plastic cutlery by the people who run Kentucky Fried Chicken (ostensibly for their mashed potatoes).  The spork is a multi-purpose implement.  I just found her a metal set made by Sheffield in a Loxley pattern on eBay.

I have vague recollections of there being something called a "Sblade" (sp?) as well, where one edge of the spoon was straight and bevelled to provide a sort of blade.  You had the fork tines and the bowl shape of the spoon as well. — Cathi

Response:

Is that a grapefruit spoon (spork)?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a spoon, no, wait, it’s a fork!  It’s a spoon with tines on it. It’s a spork!  Originally designed for use with ice cream, then manufactured as plastic cutlery by the people who run Kentucky Fried Chicken (ostensibly for their mashed potatoes).  The spork is a multi-purpose implement.  I just found her a metal set made by Sheffield in a Loxley pattern on eBay. I have vague recollections of there being something called a "Sblade" (sp?) as well, where one edge of the spoon was straight and bevelled to provide a sort of blade.  You had the fork tines and the bowl shape of the spoon as well. — Cathi

Response:

Is that a grapefruit spoon (spork)? I have vague recollections of there being something called a "Sblade" (sp?) as well, where one edge of the spoon was straight and bevelled to provide a sort of blade.  You had the fork tines and the bowl shape of the spoon as well.

That sounds different from any grapefruit spoon or spork I’ve seen. Sporks have tines that you can sort of pick things up with like a fork.  Grapefruit spoons are serrated.  Is Cathi’s utensil a cross between a spoon, fork and knife??

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mother would dearly love some regular sized metal sporks but cannot find them anywhere. We’ve looked through google, but you just find a lot of complaining that no one can find them. Anyone know where we could order them? Thanks a bunch! Karen (Posted & emailed) EBAY!  I just did a search there; eBay has one listing for a set of Sheffield metal sporks.  Hurry, the auction ends tomorrow night. Thanks! I just bid on them. Karen

If that doesn’t work out – try looking at: http://www.runciblespoon.com/html/book.html?57,19 What you are calling a spork has been known as a runcible spoon for quite some time now  

Response:

My mother would dearly love some regular sized metal sporks but cannot find them anywhere. We’ve looked through google, but you just find a lot of complaining that no one can find them. Anyone know where we could order them?

Also try army surplus type places. They tend to supply FREDS (friggin ridiculous eating devices, aka sporks) with their ready-to-eat meals, but the sporks also have a little can opener blade attached. Yowie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mother would dearly love some regular sized metal sporks but cannot find them anywhere. We’ve looked through google, but you just find a lot of complaining that no one can find them. Anyone know where we could order them? Thanks a bunch! Karen (Posted & emailed) EBAY!  I just did a search there; eBay has one listing for a set of Sheffield metal sporks.  Hurry, the auction ends tomorrow night. Thanks! I just bid on them. Karen If that doesn’t work out – try looking at: http://www.runciblespoon.com/html/book.html?57,19 What you are calling a spork has been known as a runcible spoon for quite some time now

Whew! I hope I win the eBay ones. A LOT cheaper Karen

Response:

things to say about Re: OT: Sporks: Uh…. What’s a "spork"?  (If I knew what they were, I’d know whether I could susggest a source for them.) It’s a spoon, no, wait, it’s a fork!  It’s a spoon with tines on it.  It’s a spork!  Originally designed for use with ice cream, then manufactured as plastic cutlery by the people who run Kentucky Fried Chicken (ostensibly for their mashed potatoes).  The spork is a multi-purpose implement.  I just found her a metal set made by Sheffield in a Loxley pattern on eBay. Most Taco Bell restaurants also have plastic ones on hand.

And I just hate it when I get a Taco Salad and have try to spear lettuce with those teeny little tines. — Steve Touchstone home page http://www.sirinet.net/~stouchst/index.html

Response:

The spork is a multi-purpose implement.  I just found her a metal set made by Sheffield in a Loxley pattern on eBay. Jill

You beat me to it I was going to do a search on eBay then report back. Good work Jill. Suz Iron Chef Macmoosette Thank Heavens There’s Only One =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=  =^..^=  =^..^= Chocolate heals all wounds.                  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The spork is a multi-purpose implement.  I just found her a metal set made by Sheffield in a Loxley pattern on eBay. Jill You beat me to it I was going to do a search on eBay then report back. Good work Jill. Suz Iron Chef Macmoosette Thank Heavens There’s Only One =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=  =^..^=  =^..^= Chocolate heals all wounds.

I try to stay away from eBay.  See, I found her a set of sporks and then bid on an emerald ring for my eldest brother’s 50th birthday (he was born in May).  And then I found some amber earrings that will go perfectly with my brick coloured linen dress.  Darnit!  Karen just had to go looking for sporks, didn’t she?! (laughing) Jill

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The spork is a multi-purpose implement.  I just found her a metal set made by Sheffield in a Loxley pattern on eBay. Jill You beat me to it I was going to do a search on eBay then report back. Good work Jill. Suz Iron Chef Macmoosette Thank Heavens There’s Only One =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=  =^..^=  =^..^= Chocolate heals all wounds. I try to stay away from eBay.  See, I found her a set of sporks and then bid on an emerald ring for my eldest brother’s 50th birthday (he was born in May).  And then I found some amber earrings that will go perfectly with my brick coloured linen dress.  Darnit!  Karen just had to go looking for sporks, didn’t she?! (laughing)

Its addicting but for unusual things its great. Amber earrings? Can I outbid you? Suz Iron Chef Macmoosette Thank Heavens There’s Only One =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=   =^..^=  =^..^=  =^..^= Chocolate heals all wounds.                  

Response:

Question:

 With the present/previous BS going on I figured the best way for me to cope with the mud slinging was to not see it on my computer to bother me. So for me, I spell relief  F-I-L-T-E-R.  I’ve filtered out certain topics so I will not see any more comments – regardless of who sends them. I’ve also filtered out certain individuals so I won’t have to be stressed by their BS.  Those who were here before the mud slinging began are still on my active list of good people – some of those after the mud slinging began also are on the active list and then there are those who I choose to ignore. Who says one cannot find peace I have a very nice filter on my newsgroup reader. Others might wish to do the same to eliminate some of the BS in your lives. I am making my life a little easier. I don’t think it a loss to NOT see certain topics and certainly NOT a loss to NOT see certain people. Thanks to filters Pete

Response:

I spell relief  F-I-L-T-E-R.

I spell it A-F-T-E-R-N-E-W-Y-E-A-R’S! Oh, and the filtering too.  I just updated mine! Best, Luanne http://members.aol.com/luannep/adoption.htm

Response:

    Geeeesh, relief is what I need right now.  Jane made some homemade bean soup in the crock pot today, and I ate two LARGE bowls full. ugh.  I’m in serious trouble.  Ever since I had a sword go through my small intestine a couple of years ago, I have a hard time getting the dog to sleep with me. ugh.  hahahahahahaha.  Tonight will be a real blast, as it is cold here, and the dog AND the cats will be crowding for cover anywhere they can find it. I ran out of Acephex ( sp) today, and won’t have any more til tomorrow:-) This is going to be a real good time at home later:-)  Geeeeesh ,  can’t stop laughing about it:-)  Jane really hates it when I get this way, but I’ve told her more than once, don’t make any of her ‘afterburner soup’, but she keeps on doing it, and I keep on eating it     Oh well, had to go to the mall today to pick up a jewelry repair , and viola !  I found her Christmas present in my buddie’s jewelry store.  I hate to give her jewelry from my own place, as I think that is kinda cheesy. Sorta like owning a pizza place, and taking her out to dinner at the same place.   Anyway, it’s a marquis cut, one carat emerald ring, with a half carat worth of diamonds around it.  My friend let me have it for what he had in it, so I only have to sell about three of my guns to pay for it this year  Thank goodness, I won’t have to spend any more time in the mall this year.     Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well with their own personal relief. Mine will arrive shortly:-) J. David flmf…@tampabay.rr.com

Response:

"J David Phillips" <flmf…@tampabay.rr.com

wrote in message

news:o%dK9.29485$Db4.845029@twister.tampabay.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Geeeesh, relief is what I need right now.  Jane made some homemade

bean

soup in the crock pot today, and I ate two LARGE bowls full. ugh.  I’m in serious trouble.  Ever since I had a sword go through my small intestine a couple of years ago, I have a hard time getting the dog to sleep with me. ugh.  hahahahahahaha.  Tonight will be a real blast, as it is cold here,

and

the dog AND the cats will be crowding for cover anywhere they can find it. I ran out of Acephex ( sp) today, and won’t have any more til tomorrow:-) This is going to be a real good time at home later:-)  Geeeeesh ,  can’t stop laughing about it:-)  Jane really hates it when I get this way, but I’ve told her more than once, don’t make any of her ‘afterburner soup’,

but

she keeps on doing it, and I keep on eating it     Oh well, had to go to the mall today to pick up a jewelry repair , and viola !  I found her Christmas present in my buddie’s jewelry store.  I

hate

to give her jewelry from my own place, as I think that is kinda cheesy. Sorta like owning a pizza place, and taking her out to dinner at the same place.   Anyway, it’s a marquis cut, one carat emerald ring, with a half carat worth of diamonds around it.

Excuse me, but the line forms here for J David’s next wife, no pushing, no shoving………girls just get behind me!  ;-) td   My friend let me have it for what he had – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

in it, so I only have to sell about three of my guns to pay for it this

year

 Thank goodness, I won’t have to spend any more time in the mall this year.     Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well with their own personal relief. Mine will arrive shortly:-) J. David flmf…@tampabay.rr.com

Response:

In article <o%dK9.29485$Db4.845…@twister.tampabay.rr.com

,

 "J David Phillips" <flmf…@tampabay.rr.com

wrote:     Geeeesh, relief is what I need right now.  Jane made some homemade bean     Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well with their own personal relief. Mine will arrive shortly:-) J. David flmf…@tampabay.rr.com

Beano.  It works.  A Supreme Court Justice says so.

Response:

Naaaaaaaa.  That would take all the fun out of it. J. David flmf…@tampabay.rr.com "Rose Marie Holt" <rmho…@mindspring.com

wrote in message news:rmholt1-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Beano.  It works.  A Supreme Court Justice says so.

Response:

"J David Phillips" <flmf…@tampabay.rr.com

wrote in message

news:8PeK9.30162$Db4.851711@twister.tampabay.rr.com…

Naaaaaaaa.  That would take all the fun out of it. J. David

Opps, I forgot about your ‘little problem’ tonight……..see what happens when you mention jewelry to a woman………I’m thinkin maybe I’ll form that line tomorrow instead of today……..ya think ‘late afternoon’ might work?? td – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

flmf…@tampabay.rr.com "Rose Marie Holt" <rmho…@mindspring.com wrote in message news:rmholt1- Beano.  It works.  A Supreme Court Justice says so.

Response:

Oh boy. David if you meant Aciphex then I really feel for you. Suggestion, don’t run out, ha! Larry L "J David Phillips" <flmf…@tampabay.rr.com

wrote in message

news:o%dK9.29485$Db4.845029@twister.tampabay.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    Geeeesh, relief is what I need right now.  Jane made some homemade

bean

soup in the crock pot today, and I ate two LARGE bowls full. ugh.  I’m in serious trouble.  Ever since I had a sword go through my small intestine a couple of years ago, I have a hard time getting the dog to sleep with me. ugh.  hahahahahahaha.  Tonight will be a real blast, as it is cold here,

and

the dog AND the cats will be crowding for cover anywhere they can find it. I ran out of Acephex ( sp) today, and won’t have any more til tomorrow:-) This is going to be a real good time at home later:-)  Geeeeesh ,  can’t stop laughing about it:-)  Jane really hates it when I get this way, but I’ve told her more than once, don’t make any of her ‘afterburner soup’,

but

she keeps on doing it, and I keep on eating it     Oh well, had to go to the mall today to pick up a jewelry repair , and viola !  I found her Christmas present in my buddie’s jewelry store.  I

hate

to give her jewelry from my own place, as I think that is kinda cheesy. Sorta like owning a pizza place, and taking her out to dinner at the same place.   Anyway, it’s a marquis cut, one carat emerald ring, with a half carat worth of diamonds around it.  My friend let me have it for what he

had

in it, so I only have to sell about three of my guns to pay for it this

year

 Thank goodness, I won’t have to spend any more time in the mall this year.     Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well with their own personal relief. Mine will arrive shortly:-) J. David flmf…@tampabay.rr.com

Response:

Question:

My fiance and I live together and he told me he tried putting a string around my finger and marking it while I was asleep (very funny when it’s acted out for you!).  Warning: I evidently moved a lot when he was doing this and the result was too small!  He kept asking if I liked it and I kept saying it was perfect.  However, when we went to have it resized, the one we ended up with was just a hair ‘more perfect’. The original ring has a claddagh in the center, with 4 channel-set diamonds on either side, and the one I am wearing now is the same except it is two diamonds and two emeralds on either side.  I love emeralds!  It is perfect for me, as it has a very low profile.  I am a PC technician and have my hands inside computers quite often, so something that stuck out would have spent a lot of time in my pocket!  Our wedding rings both have knot designs. I will probably wear my engagement ring on my right hand, rather than the two together, since the wedding ring is more a rose gold and the engagement more a yellow gold.  They are perfect! And for Christmas my family gave me earrings that match.  The first thing I said was, "Oh, they’re beautiful, I’ll wear them in the wedding!". Robin 7 more days!

Response:

It wasn’t to get an engagement ring, but the theory holds anyway. When my sister was visiting her boyfriend’s family if Colombia, I gave her money to get me an emerald ring. I didn’t know if they used the same sizing scale in South America so I traced the inside of a ring that fit on a piece of paper, she took the paper and laid the ring she planned to purchase over the tracing. The ring she brought back fit perfectly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What if I want to propose marriage but I’m not sure of the engagement ring size?  I know that in Hollywood movies the engagement ring seems to always fit the woman’s finger!  How can you know the size of the finger without giving away the secret of the marriage proposal?  Or is Hollywood just rubbish?

Response:

Hello everyone I just want to thank everyone for their advice.  I did propose to my girlfriend in the Lake District (in England) on 10 September under an oak tree (yes, I got down on my knee!).  I didn’t have a ring at the time but I did have a cute teddy bear for her.  The following day we chose an engagement ring together…18 carat gold, 1/3 carat weight diamond (7 diamond stones). Thanks for all the advice:) Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It wasn’t to get an engagement ring, but the theory holds anyway. When my sister was visiting her boyfriend’s family if Colombia, I gave her money to get me an emerald ring. I didn’t know if they used the same sizing scale in South America so I traced the inside of a ring that fit on a piece of paper, she took the paper and laid the ring she planned to purchase over the tracing. The ring she brought back fit perfectly. What if I want to propose marriage but I’m not sure of the engagement ring size?  I know that in Hollywood movies the engagement ring seems to always fit the woman’s finger!  How can you know the size of the finger without giving away the secret of the marriage proposal?  Or is Hollywood just rubbish?

Response:

I’m nearly 3/4ths a size larger on my right hand.  My right foot is bigger too.  If I put a ring for my right hand on my left, it would fall off. Q Tylenolhead

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what if it’s a little off. The ring finger of the right hand will be pretty close. It is really not a big deal at all to go have the ring resized. It’s even free, at least it was for us. Personally, I’d rather be surprised than to go together and pick out a ring. It says a lot when your guy finds the perfect ring for you. This means taking a chance that the ring may not fit *perfectly*, but really, it doesn’t matter! kyoto Only slight problem with grabbing a ring that she wears on her right ring finger…her right ring finger might be a little bigger or smaller. To me it seems my right ring finger is a little bigger but I’m not sure.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My fiance guessed at my ring size, and he guessed 2 sizes too big! I didn’t even care. i wore it on my middle finger with another ring on top of it until we got back to the states (we were in Europe on vacation). We got it resized later. To get an estimated guess… does she wear rings on her other fingers? maybe she wears a ring on the ring finger of her right hand. If so, grab the ring when she’s not looking, measure around it w/ a strip of paper (you can even get paper w/ ring size indicators on the internet. Do a google search for ‘ring sizing chart’ or something like that and see what comes up. I found one that you print out, actual size, then cut it out). Take the strip to your jeweler for a guess at her size. If you’re a little off…. it doesn’t really matter. Get it resized together later. Good luck! kyoto What if I want to propose marriage but I’m not sure of the engagement ring size?  I know that in Hollywood movies the engagement ring seems to always fit the woman’s finger!  How can you know the size of the finger without giving away the secret of the marriage proposal?  Or is Hollywood just rubbish?

Response:

So what if it’s a little off. The ring finger of the right hand will be pretty close. It is really not a big deal at all to go have the ring resized. It’s even free, at least it was for us. Personally, I’d rather be surprised than to go together and pick out a ring. It says a lot when your guy finds the perfect ring for you. This means taking a chance that the ring may not fit *perfectly*, but really, it doesn’t matter! kyoto – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Only slight problem with grabbing a ring that she wears on her right ring finger…her right ring finger might be a little bigger or smaller. To me it seems my right ring finger is a little bigger but I’m not sure. My fiance guessed at my ring size, and he guessed 2 sizes too big! I didn’t even care. i wore it on my middle finger with another ring on top of it until we got back to the states (we were in Europe on vacation). We got it resized later. To get an estimated guess… does she wear rings on her other fingers? maybe she wears a ring on the ring finger of her right hand. If so, grab the ring when she’s not looking, measure around it w/ a strip of paper (you can even get paper w/ ring size indicators on the internet. Do a google search for ‘ring sizing chart’ or something like that and see what comes up. I found one that you print out, actual size, then cut it out). Take the strip to your jeweler for a guess at her size. If you’re a little off…. it doesn’t really matter. Get it resized together later. Good luck! kyoto What if I want to propose marriage but I’m not sure of the engagement ring size?  I know that in Hollywood movies the engagement ring seems to always fit the woman’s finger!  How can you know the size of the finger without giving away the secret of the marriage proposal?  Or is Hollywood just rubbish?

Response:

What if I want to propose marriage but I’m not sure of the engagement ring size? Of course you can propose without a ring.  (Or with a "fake" or symbolic ring, such as a toy version.)

You could also get her a piece of jewelry that would hold sentimental value and that she could possibly wear on the day of the wedding.  I’m thinking diamond earings (if her ears are pierced) or a beautiful necklace or pendant would be just as good as a temporary ring.  - PQ

Response:

Another idea is to find good stone and get it put in a temporary setting. For guestimating what size your fianc

Question:

<< What better way to remember a wonderful vacation than a fine Colombian Emerald Ring or any other piece that catches your eye. Welllll  …. IMHO a beautiful colored t-shirt made of fine cotton fabric is a great way to remember the vacation! Mike

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that’s a man for ya!!!!!! <g Kathy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Welllll  …. IMHO a beautiful colored t-shirt made of fine cotton fabric is a great way to remember the vacation! Mike

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Dave, I couldn’t agree more. While on a cruise celebrating our 40th anniversary, my DH purchased a Diamond Anniversary band for me. After I returned I had it appraised by my local jeweler for $1000.00 more than I paid. I wasn’t cheated and since my DH died soon after, I have a wonderful memory of a great trip. Buy what you love, remember why you bought it and don’t worry about it. Norma

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Shop in the US to get an idea of prices first, and NEVER believe what the salesperson at the counter tells you.  Example:  I bought an Imperial Topaz pendant for my mom at Amsterdam Sauer in Rio.  It came with an appraisal and guarantee of authenticity.  It was half the price of a comparable item in the States, and the setting was 18 kt gold instead of 14kt as is usual in the US.  A jeweler friend here in the US confirmed the appraisal and told me I got a bargain.  So, a few years later, I took mom & dad on a Caribbean cruise.  In the Amsterdam Sauer in St. Thomas, we looked at their Imperial Topaz collection.  For fun, I innocently asked the saleswoman what she thought of my mom’s pendant.  She sneered and said that the topaz in her shop was far superior, and that my mom’s pendant was not a true Imperial Topaz, and the setting was poorly made.  I said "gee, that’s not what your branch in Rio told me."  She tried to recover the fumble, but it was too late, we were already out the door.  Caveat emptor. HB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have read that you can find some fabulous deals on jewelry while cruising. My question may seem dumb, however here goes: How do you know if what you think is a "great deal" on a gem or jewelry really is? I don’t mean so much price-wise, but cut and quality-wise (of course price is important too). Do the gems and/or jewelry come with "papers" to prove authenticity? My Mom just loves gems but won’t spend money on herself and I’d like to get her something really nice, but I don’t want to get swindled either. We are cruising to Grand Cayman, Montego Bay and Cozamel and I don’t even know if they are known for their good deals. Thanks in advance for the help. -Melissa

Response:

After an awful lot of Caribbean cruises and a lot of jewelry purchases, I’d echo the earlier thoughts that you need to either stick to relatively inexpensive pieces or KNOW what you are buying. I’ve lost stones from  three pieces I bought at Colombian Emeralds over the years, so I don’t buy gemstones from them anymore.  On the other hand, I bought a Raymond Weil watch on sale in St. Thomas, got home, and saw the same watch at a local jeweler for 5 times what I paid for it. I bought a loose tanzanite which was lovely and now appraises for far more than my purchase price, BUT the stone originally had a crack which had to be polished out.  Likewise, I bought a pair of loose amethysts and had them set into earrings.  I could have easily purchased a pair of earrings for what the stones and the setting cost.  However, they weren’t that expensive to begin with and they hold good memories of the trip, so I still consider them a good bargain. I could go on with the list, but the bottom line for me is that there is great variety and there are some good bargains in the Caribbean.  But, it’s also easy to get carried away with "vacation fever" if you don’t know what you are buying. As for gold, I never touch the stuff down in the islands — wait for someone you know to go to Italy and get the good stuff!

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As for gold, I never touch the stuff down in the islands — wait for someone you know to go to Italy and get the good stuff!

I agree!  Although my best bargain was in Turkey.  I got an 18k gold bracelet, with *evil eyes* set in to it.  I paid 50 bucks.  I brought it in to a local jewelery store to have a larger clasp put on it and the guy said it was worth well over $200!  I guess ya just never know… Pam : ) Official Virtual Cruise Director http://allcruiseauction.atinfopop.com/ http://www.allcruiseauction.com/html/categories.htm

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A jeweler friend here in the US confirmed the appraisal and told me I got a bargain.  

While we are on the jewlelry thread, I have a question. Have any of you seen any gold slides with interesting stones for the two chain slide bracelets in the islands?  I have one my husband started for me several years ago, and need about four more to complete it. I would love to know if they are available in the stores there. Each one of my slides has a sentimental meaning from a special occasion. Thanks,

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I had a similar experience to Babette’s in St. Thomas while browsing in one of the jewelry shops.  A salesman commented on my beautiful tanzanite studs.  I thanked him and hubby and I walked out and had one good laugh!!  I was wearing my CZ tanzanite look-alikes from the Joan Rivers Classic Collection purchased from QVC.  As Babette so aptly put it….caveat emptor!!

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Welllll  …. IMHO a beautiful colored t-shirt made of fine cotton fabric is a great way to remember the vacation!

Fortunately for those of us in the jewelry business….millions of women will disagree with that statement Dave

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Buy what you love, remember why you bought it and don’t worry about it.

Norma, Your story sums up my feelings about jewelry.   The concept of "precious" jewelry is about what it means, not what it costs. You have something that is so precious to you that  it can not be assigned a dollar value. Dave

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I bought a wonderful 2.5 caret invisible set diamond ring in Cozamel at Diamonds International for $2,000 got it home and insurance appraised for $5,600.  I have bought from them in St Thomas and Key West in the past with the same great results

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have read that you can find some fabulous deals on jewelry while cruising. My question may seem dumb, however here goes: How do you know if what you think is a "great deal" on a gem or jewelry really is? I don’t mean so much price-wise, but cut and quality-wise (of course price is important too). Do the gems and/or jewelry come with "papers" to prove authenticity? My Mom just loves gems but won’t spend money on herself and I’d like to get her something really nice, but I don’t want to get swindled either. We are cruising to Grand Cayman, Montego Bay and Cozamel and I don’t even know if they are known for their good deals. Thanks in advance for the help. -Melissa

Response:

That reminds me of jewelry shopping in St. Maarten a few years ago.  The salesperson was valiantly trying to sell us a Tanzanite bracelet.  We haggled back and forth for a while and then my husband pulled out his jewelers loupe and started examining the piece.  The salesperson looked shocked and surprised that he had his own loupe.  When he questioned us we told him that we always check our purchases very carefully and he also had a higher magnification loupe in his pocket that he frequently uses as well.  The salesperson then did a very quick disappearing act and couldn’t be seen anywhere in the store.  The funny part was that he left the tanzanite bracelet right there on the counter in front of us.  We burst out laughing and walked out of the store.  We were still laughing about it halfway down the street.  It was the best time I ever had jewelry shopping in the Caribbean.

Lola in Hamilton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you know what jewelry dealers really love – pulling a loupe out of your pocket. they love nothing better then that… i personally would like to see a jewelry person’s face… though still the best thing, if your going to shop for anything at all. go to a few stores in your hometown and get some comparison prices for a baseline. —Mike Savad — — Mike’s Stained Glass – http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That reminds me of jewelry shopping in St. Maarten a few years ago. The salesperson was valiantly trying to sell us a Tanzanite bracelet. We haggled back and forth for a while and then my husband pulled out his jewelers loupe and started examining the piece.  The salesperson looked shocked and surprised that he had his own loupe.  When he questioned us we told him that we always check our purchases very carefully and he also had a higher magnification loupe in his pocket that he frequently uses as well.  The salesperson then did a very quick disappearing act and couldn’t be seen anywhere in the store. The funny part was that he left the tanzanite bracelet right there on the counter in front of us.  We burst out laughing and walked out of the store.  We were still laughing about it halfway down the street. It was the best time I ever had jewelry shopping in the Caribbean. Lola in Hamilton

the same idea goes when you talk to the computer guy at the store, he acts like the know it all, and you show him up with your own skills – as he stutters along. but with jewelry you have to be careful. plated stuff, false diamonds, cracked maybe, off color (hard to tell of the lighting isn’t right). if you shell out the dough, be ready to examine the good carefully, because it’s a long way to come back and return it… —Mike Savad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you know what jewelry dealers really love – pulling a loupe out of your pocket. they love nothing better then that… i personally would like to see a jewelry person’s face… though still the best thing, if your going to shop for anything at all. go to a few stores in your hometown and get some comparison prices for a baseline. —Mike Savad — — Mike’s Stained Glass – http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/

– — Mike’s Stained Glass – http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/

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And I have to agree – yes if you are a certified gemologist or very knowledgeable about jewlery you probably will know to examine the piece with an expert eye.  I though don’t have that skill and will likely not develop it before I cruise.  So with that in mind for me and most like me, buying *expensive* jewlery while on a cruise is a poor choice.  Something less expensive (under $100, perhaps $200 if I *reallllllly* loved it and was pretty sure about its quality) I would ‘trust’ myself to assess but pricey items, I’ll stick local for purchases. Laura

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That reminds me of jewelry shopping in St. Maarten a few years ago. The salesperson was valiantly trying to sell us a Tanzanite bracelet. We haggled back and forth for a while and then my husband pulled out his jewelers loupe and started examining the piece.  The salesperson looked shocked and surprised that he had his own loupe.  When he questioned us we told him that we always check our purchases very carefully and he also had a higher magnification loupe in his pocket that he frequently uses as well.  The salesperson then did a very quick disappearing act and couldn’t be seen anywhere in the store. The funny part was that he left the tanzanite bracelet right there on the counter in front of us.  We burst out laughing and walked out of the store.  We were still laughing about it halfway down the street. It was the best time I ever had jewelry shopping in the Caribbean. Lola in Hamilton the same idea goes when you talk to the computer guy at the store, he acts like the know it all, and you show him up with your own skills – as he stutters along. but with jewelry you have to be careful. plated stuff, false diamonds, cracked maybe, off color (hard to tell of the lighting isn’t right). if you shell out the dough, be ready to examine the good carefully, because it’s a long way to come back and return it… —Mike Savad you know what jewelry dealers really love – pulling a loupe out of your pocket. they love nothing better then that… i personally would like to see a jewelry person’s face… though still the best thing, if your going to shop for anything at all. go to a few stores in your hometown and get some comparison prices for a baseline. —Mike Savad — — Mike’s Stained Glass – http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/ — — Mike’s Stained Glass – http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/

Response:

I have read that you can find some fabulous deals on jewelry while cruising. My question may seem dumb, however here goes: How do you know if what you think is a "great deal" on a gem or jewelry really is? I don’t mean so much price-wise, but cut and quality-wise (of course price is important too). Do the gems and/or jewelry come with "papers" to prove authenticity? My Mom just loves gems but won’t spend money on herself and I’d like to get her something really nice, but I don’t want to get swindled either. We are cruising to Grand Cayman, Montego Bay and Cozamel and I don’t even know if they are known for their good deals. Thanks in advance for the help. -Melissa

I also went to Cozamel, Grand Cayman and Ocho Rios.  I found 14kt gold for $10 per gram, some designer pieces, in Ocho Rios.  You have to haggle over the prices.  We met a lady who bougth a 14kt watch in Cozamel for $800., then was sick when she found the exact same watch in Ocho Rios for $300..  I have been told Grand Cayman is expensive. My husband was very happy to let me shop for jewelry in Ocho Rios as they provided free beer while he waited as well as let him test the liquors they had for sale.  I will be making a special trip to Ocho Rios for more jewelry shopping later.  It is the best I personally have found yet. Jenna W. http://www.e-vacationtips.com     (free newsletter)

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There are many wonderful jewelry buying opportunities throughout the Caribbean.  The prices are fair and can usually be negotiated a bit.  The greatest advantage is selection.  Where an American jeweler might have a couple large Tanzanite rings to show you, the Island jeweler will have a hundred for you to choose from. THE KEY is to do your research before you go.  Know what you might want and become familiar with the qualities and prices at home.  Then you have the ability to compare. Also, look for jewelers that are members of the Caribbean Gemological Institute.  Those stores will often have quality certificates on the better jewelry.  You can check out their site at www.carigem.org  Lots of good info there.

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Mexico is known for having beautiful silver jewelry.  We have shopped mostly in Grand Cayman.   At Grand Cayman, I purchased a 4 carat diamond ring, a gold coin ring, a Rolex and a couple of other watches.  The store that sold the Rolex watches, no longer sells Rolex.  These stores also offer beautiful collectibles, Lladro, Ebony Visions, Swarovski, Waterford, Lalique, Baccarat, Armani figurines, Murano Glass, Harmony Kingdom, Lenox, Hummels, and my personal favorites, little Limoge boxes. Becca  <—–last time I was at Grand Cayman, I bought a toe ring…

Response:

<< How do you know if what you think is a "great deal" on a gem or jewelry really is? I don’t mean so much price-wise, but cut and quality-wise (of course price is important too). Do the gems and/or jewelry come with "papers" to prove authenticity? As a Diplomate Gemologist of the Gemological Institute of America and a very experienced jewelry appraiser, my advice to anyone buying jewelry is to deal with a reputable local jeweler in your home town.  The values of diamonds and gemstones are based on microscopic differences and subtle shades of color that even an expert cannot evaluate without instruments.  To spend any substantial amount of money on an unknown gemstone at a foreign port is taking a huge chance, to say the least. I would suggest that you restrict your purchases on the cruise to ashtrays and t-shirts and buy major items from someone that you can go back to locally. Michael J. Hall Gemologist GIA

Response:

As a Diplomate Gemologist of the Gemological Institute of America and a very experienced jewelry appraiser, my advice to anyone buying jewelry is to deal with a reputable local jeweler in your home town.

Michael…..I have to disagree with you on this one.  I am also a Graduate Gemologist highly experienced in appraisals (I examine approx. 8000 items per year) and I think the Caribbean is a wonderful place to buy jewelry. The selections are awesome, much better that any hometown jeweler I’ve ever seen.. Too many Gemologists lose track of what jewelry is all about.  We tend to think only of what we see in the microscope.  Jewelry is about romance, memories and feelings.  What better way to remember a wonderful vacation than a fine Colombian Emerald Ring or any other piece that catches your eye. To spend any substantial amount of money on an unknown gemstone at a

foreign port is taking a huge chance, to say the least.

Most of the more expensive pieces in the islands usually come with a certificate from CGI, GIA, EGL or IGI.  You can always have the item checked by a gemologist at home to be sure the cert matches the item.  The cruise ships will help you in any dispute with one of their recommended stores. CGI will help in disputes with any store in the islands. Again….doing your homework before you travel is the best idea….then go….enjoy… and buy what you like. Dave Siskin Graduate Gemologist – GIA

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Just returned from Triumph cruise to St. Thomas, St. Croix, and San Juan. Prior to arriving at our first port the cruise director had an information session regarding shopping and gave a list of reputable and recommended jewellery stores (alot of emphasis on St. Thomas stores).  I would imagine the same would be in the ports you visit.  One thing with the Carnival recommended stores is that if you get home and find the jewellery purchased is not what you thought you had purchased you can contact Carnival directly and they will assist you.  I think on all these Islands it is ‘buyer beware’ and remember to bargain.  On St. Thomas earlier this month, I really wanted a tanzanite and diamond bracelet.  The sales person started at $400.00, I ended up paying $200.00 without alot of bargaining. Did I get a $400.00 bracelet?  I doubt it, but I’m happy with the $200.00 bracelet. Regarding your itinerary…we sailed the Sensation two years ago to the Western Carribean and Cozumel seemed to be the island for jewellery shopping.  As far as gems goes, I don’t think (as a gift) you can go wrong with a semi-precious stone such as Amethyst or Blue Topaz.  You could probably get a pendant, set in 14ct gold, 1.5 ct. stone for about $60.00 (chain not included).  I did purchase a (supposedly) 14ct. gold, 1ct. diamond tennis bracelet for $175.00 in Cozumel.  While I doubt it was the best quality, I loved the style and was happy with what I got. Wendy (Who loves her jewellery!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have read that you can find some fabulous deals on jewelry while cruising. My question may seem dumb, however here goes: How do you know if what you think is a "great deal" on a gem or jewelry really is? I don’t mean so much price-wise, but cut and quality-wise (of course price is important too). Do the gems and/or jewelry come with "papers" to prove authenticity? My Mom just loves gems but won’t spend money on herself and I’d like to get her something really nice, but I don’t want to get swindled either. We are cruising to Grand Cayman, Montego Bay and Cozamel and I don’t even know if they are known for their good deals. Thanks in advance for the help. -Melissa

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As a Diplomate Gemologist of the Gemological Institute of America and a very experienced jewelry appraiser, my advice to anyone buying jewelry is to deal with a reputable local jeweler in your home town. Michael…..I have to disagree with you on this one.  I am also a Graduate Gemologist highly experienced in appraisals (I examine approx. 8000 items per year) and I think the Caribbean is a wonderful place to buy jewelry. The selections are awesome, much better that any hometown jeweler I’ve ever seen.. Too many Gemologists lose track of what jewelry is all about.  We tend to think only of what we see in the microscope.  Jewelry is about romance, memories and feelings.  What better way to remember a wonderful vacation than a fine Colombian Emerald Ring or any other piece that catches your eye. To spend any substantial amount of money on an unknown gemstone at a foreign port is taking a huge chance, to say the least. Most of the more expensive pieces in the islands usually come with a certificate from CGI, GIA, EGL or IGI.  You can always have the item checked by a gemologist at home to be sure the cert matches the item. The cruise ships will help you in any dispute with one of their recommended stores. CGI will help in disputes with any store in the islands. Again….doing your homework before you travel is the best idea….then go….enjoy… and buy what you like. Dave Siskin Graduate Gemologist – GIA

you know what jewelry dealers really love – pulling a loupe out of your pocket. they love nothing better then that… i personally would like to see a jewelry person’s face… though still the best thing, if your going to shop for anything at all. go to a few stores in your hometown and get some comparison prices for a baseline. —Mike Savad — — Mike’s Stained Glass – http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1141/

Response:

My wife bought some  pearls for 400$ in Jamaica and had to have the clasp seen to when she got home which was carried out FREE, after which they were valued by Miki Moko at

Question:

If you have swollen fingers and can’t get your rings off, try this instead of all the spit and washing up liquid.

I stopped wearing rings because my finger size varies so much.  I would probably wind up with nodules above the ring, because anytime there is a pressure area I get nodules. Oh well, that’s a great tip!

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Good tip Connie. I took my rings off for my very first set of RA x-rays and have never put them back on again. It took me so long to prise them off in the x-ray theatre I decided not to bother after that. We aren’t terribly sentimental in that way anyway so it didn’t bother Col and I too much. Nic Perth. W. Aus.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have swollen fingers and can’t get your rings off, try this instead of all the spit and washing up liquid. Using a thin piece of cotton thread , feed it UNDER the ring, ( there is almost always enough "give" in the flesh), otherwise use the "eye" end of a needle to thread it under, (pull needle clear once you have taken the thread through) and pull ONE end through so you have the ring with the tails of the thread on either side of underside of the ring. Bring the tails together and keeping a firm grasp of the two tails in the other hand and gently run the thread around the inside of the ring, gently pulling upwards at the same time. This compresses the flesh a tiny bit as the thread passes over it, but allows for the ring to slip off. Less time consuming than getting a fireman to hack it off, and doesn’t damage the ring, so less expensive. Regards ConnieD.

Response:

Hi Connie,  Thats a good idea . I never thought of that. Now I just need a ring.! Ok you guys, who’s not married?(bg).   ally

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ally, have you thought of having a ring made larger to get over a swollen joint and having an adjustable band placed on the inside so it allows for swelling…. other than that.. can’t help. Luvv ConnieD — http://users.tebenet.nl/~davis-coombs-ce/index.htm Hi Connie, I used to wear kids rings as I had such small fingers. Now they look like sausages and I can’t get a ring on let alone off. (sob)     Ally If you have swollen fingers and can’t get your rings off, try this instead of all the spit and washing up liquid. Using a thin piece of cotton thread , feed it UNDER the ring, ( there is almost always enough "give" in the flesh), otherwise use the "eye" end of a needle to thread it under, (pull needle clear once you have taken the thread through) and pull ONE end through so you have the ring with the tails of the thread on either side of underside of the ring. Bring the tails together and keeping a firm grasp of the two tails in the other hand and gently run the thread around the inside of the ring, gently pulling upwards at the same time. This compresses the flesh a tiny bit as the thread passes over it, but allows for the ring to slip off. Less time consuming than getting a fireman to hack it off, and doesn’t damage the ring, so less expensive. Regards ConnieD.

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A further tip for the thread put under the ring, the bit of thread above the ring is wound round the finger (not overlapping) and the bit of thread below the ring is then unwound, thus moving the ring off the finger. regards Hildagh (who has a large size engagement ring to cope with the swelling of the fingers) – the only ring I can now wear. ( except of the very few good days or when it is freezing cold. ) Well, I have only had the engagement ring for a year, so still have to flash it – the ring that is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good tip Connie. I took my rings off for my very first set of RA x-rays and have never put them back on again. It took me so long to prise them off in the x-ray theatre I decided not to bother after that. We aren’t terribly sentimental in that way anyway so it didn’t bother Col and I too much. Nic Perth. W. Aus. If you have swollen fingers and can’t get your rings off, try this instead of all the spit and washing up liquid. Using a thin piece of cotton thread , feed it UNDER the ring, ( there is almost always enough "give" in the flesh), otherwise use the "eye" end of a needle to thread it under, (pull needle clear once you have taken the thread through) and pull ONE end through so you have the ring with the tails of the thread on either side of underside of the ring. Bring the tails together and keeping a firm grasp of the two tails in the other hand and gently run the thread around the inside of the ring, gently pulling upwards at the same time. This compresses the flesh a tiny bit as the thread passes over it, but allows for the ring to slip off. Less time consuming than getting a fireman to hack it off, and doesn’t damage the ring, so less expensive. Regards ConnieD.

Response:

If you have swollen fingers and can’t get your rings off, try this instead of all the spit and washing up liquid.

As a birthday present to myself a few years ago, I had my wedding set and the set that used to be my Grandmother’s sized to fit me.  Grandma’s were a size 5 I think and I never wore that small a ring, even prior to the RA. Anyway, had this done and they fit for a time and then my fingers stopped swelling and they were too big.  Now they fit about right unless my hands are cold and then they are too big.  I’d like to find some of those plastic ring sizers so I can use those when they are too big.  It’s getting to where I have to check them daily to see if they fit or not.  Recently, I shook my hand for some reason and one set went flying across the room. Tigg

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have swollen fingers and can’t get your rings off, try this instead of all the spit and washing up liquid. As a birthday present to myself a few years ago, I had my wedding set and the set that used to be my Grandmother’s sized to fit me.  Grandma’s were a size 5 I think and I never wore that small a ring, even prior to the RA. Anyway, had this done and they fit for a time and then my fingers stopped swelling and they were too big.  Now they fit about right unless my hands are cold and then they are too big.  I’d like to find some of those plastic ring sizers so I can use those when they are too big.  It’s getting to where I have to check them daily to see if they fit or not.  Recently, I shook my hand for some reason and one set went flying across the room. Tigg

Tigg you can buy special gold or silver clasps that fit inside the ring and expand/contract as your fingers alter…. they clip onto the ring itself and are a safety guard against losing rings….A jeweler will fit them for you……. I wear my Mom. wedding and eternity rings UNDER my wedding ring as she had rather large fingers and mine are a measly size N……. Lickle bier worstjes ( beer sausages) as my DH and son calls them LOL….. and a pinky ring on my left hand . regards ConnieD

Response:

Tigg you can buy special gold or silver clasps that fit inside the ring and expand/contract as your fingers alter…. they clip onto the ring itself and are a safety guard against losing rings….A jeweler will fit them for you…….

Will see about finding a jeweler with these in the near future.  I can only wear one set right now.  The other is too big and slide off my hand.  I alternate between wearing my wedding set and Grandma’s.  DH doesn’t care if I wear a ring or not, since we both know that I’m married to him!  I just prefer to wear something, not that I have guys asking me out when I’m not wearing them. I wear my Mom. wedding and eternity rings UNDER my wedding ring as she had rather large fingers and mine are a measly size N…….

Don’t know what size an N would be.  I had a size 9 in high school, have always had short, stubby fingers.  I think they are an 11 now or around there, depending on the swelling.  The only way my fingers look long is to have my nails done, which I do every other week.  I figure it’s one thing I do to make myself feel better and it doesn’t cost that much.  DH likes them long since they are good for scratching his back. Now I just have to get my emerald ring fixed (one of the stones is loose) and I can wear that one every now and then too. Tigg (having to keep an "eagle eye" on the dog who keeps lurking around the kitchen trash can tonight…pork chop bones)

Response:

Ally, have you thought of having a ring made larger to get over a swollen joint and having an adjustable band placed on the inside so it allows for swelling…. other than that.. can’t help. Luvv ConnieD — http://users.tebenet.nl/~davis-coombs-ce/index.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Connie, I used to wear kids rings as I had such small fingers. Now they look like sausages and I can’t get a ring on let alone off. (sob)     Ally If you have swollen fingers and can’t get your rings off, try this instead of all the spit and washing up liquid. Using a thin piece of cotton thread , feed it UNDER the ring, ( there is almost always enough "give" in the flesh), otherwise use the "eye" end of a needle to thread it under, (pull needle clear once you have taken the thread through) and pull ONE end through so you have the ring with the tails of the thread on either side of underside of the ring. Bring the tails together and keeping a firm grasp of the two tails in the other hand and gently run the thread around the inside of the ring, gently pulling upwards at the same time. This compresses the flesh a tiny bit as the thread passes over it, but allows for the ring to slip off. Less time consuming than getting a fireman to hack it off, and doesn’t damage the ring, so less expensive. Regards ConnieD.

Response:

If you have swollen fingers and can’t get your rings off, try this instead of all the spit and washing up liquid. Using a thin piece of cotton thread , feed it UNDER the ring, ( there is almost always enough "give" in the flesh), otherwise use the "eye" end of a needle to thread it under, (pull needle clear once you have taken the thread through) and pull ONE end through so you have the ring with the tails of the thread on either side of underside of the ring. Bring the tails together and keeping a firm grasp of the two tails in the other hand and gently run the thread around the inside of the ring, gently pulling upwards at the same time. This compresses the flesh a tiny bit as the thread passes over it, but allows for the ring to slip off. Less time consuming than getting a fireman to hack it off, and doesn’t damage the ring, so less expensive. Regards ConnieD.

Response:

Hi Connie, I used to wear kids rings as I had such small fingers. Now they look like sausages and I can’t get a ring on let alone off. (sob)     Ally

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have swollen fingers and can’t get your rings off, try this instead of all the spit and washing up liquid. Using a thin piece of cotton thread , feed it UNDER the ring, ( there is almost always enough "give" in the flesh), otherwise use the "eye" end of a needle to thread it under, (pull needle clear once you have taken the thread through) and pull ONE end through so you have the ring with the tails of the thread on either side of underside of the ring. Bring the tails together and keeping a firm grasp of the two tails in the other hand and gently run the thread around the inside of the ring, gently pulling upwards at the same time. This compresses the flesh a tiny bit as the thread passes over it, but allows for the ring to slip off. Less time consuming than getting a fireman to hack it off, and doesn’t damage the ring, so less expensive. Regards ConnieD.

Response:

Question:

Hi, all! That’s about all I have to say.  I generally find denial to be one of my most useful tools when dealing with MS, so I avoid the group — but I do lurk, and I felt like saying hello. So… hello! Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Response:

<gig friendly wave

Hi Keith! ((U))   M "Keith Snyder" <ke…@woollymammoth.com

wrote in message

news:BAA3407D.69E01%keith@woollymammoth.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi, all! That’s about all I have to say.  I generally find denial to be one of my most useful tools when dealing with MS, so I avoid the group — but I do lurk, and I felt like saying hello. So… hello! Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Response:

Hello back at ya. Any new books? Gaylan "Keith Snyder" <ke…@woollymammoth.com

wrote in message

news:BAA3407D.69E01%keith@woollymammoth.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi, all! That’s about all I have to say.  I generally find denial to be one of my most useful tools when dealing with MS, so I avoid the group — but I do lurk, and I felt like saying hello. So… hello! Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Response:

Hello to you, too, Keith.  Denial is a comfortable place to be when dealing with this disease.  Stay there a little while longer, if you wish.  We still have some snow on the ground, summer might be a good time to poke out your nose and check for your shadow.  :-) — From: watchman (watch…@nucleus.com) [Now ironjust...@aol.com] Newsgroups: alt.support.thyroid Date: 2002-01-12 15:56:30 PST "Look lady .. if you don’t know what you are talking about ‘medically’ .. then stay out of it .. The man has had three miscarriages/spontaneous abortions."

Response:

Hi Keith! Hello backatcha! Anything new with you?  New books, travels, adventures? Updates, please! Sylvia

Response:

Sylv772…@yahoo.com (Sylvia) wrote in message <news:e43f7f84.0303231845.244bd958@posting.google.com

… Anything new with you?  New books, travels, adventures?

No new books. I’ve been working on a screenplay for most of the last year, and it’s getting close to being done. I was in Pasadena, CA a couple of weeks ago for a mystery convention, and then I went to Louisville, KY to teach a writing workshop last week.  Unfortunately, it was a bad MS week (well, bad compared to my usual, anyway; compared to a lot of people’s, it was good), so I came back pretty fried. Better now, though. Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Response:

Keith Snyder <ke…@woollymammoth.com

wrote in message <news:BAA3407D.69E01%keith@woollymammoth.com… Hi, all! That’s about all I have to say.  I generally find denial to be one of my most useful tools when dealing with MS, so I avoid the group — but I do lurk, and I felt like saying hello. So… hello! Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Hello , Keith! Glad to have you peeping in. What eve happene with your book discussions?           Jayne

Response:

Ja…@Planet-Save.com (Jayne Adler) wrote in message <news:60223b1e.0303251015.1ebda3c8@posting.google.com

… Glad to have you peeping in. What eve happene with your book discussions?

There wasn’t all that much of a response, so they just kind of fizzled. Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Response:

At 02:58 PM 3/14/96 +0200, you wrote:

Hi to all May I introduce myself.  My name is Dotty and I live in Surrey, England I am getting on a bit now, but I have had MS for nearly 50 years. This comes from Dotty’s Den, somewhere in the heart of Surrey Internet E mails ecstatically received at do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk welcome and then some! to tired to write much more, my folks used to live

in south croyden, now they live in gerard’s cross. i just love england, and scottland, oh well and turkey, and canada, and so on a laugh a day keeps the blues away           susan

Response:

Marcello Brocchi <pcs…@venus.devetir.qld.gov.au

wrote: Heloo everyone… I have just discovered that I have internet mail and news at work so I have decided to have a look. When I saw this group I almost cried. My very good friend that I love very very much may have MS.. thankyou. Marcello.

hello marcello! sounds like your friend is lucky to have you in her life! is there a ms society in australia?  if you do have access to a ms society office, they will be able to give you pamphlets to read.  if not, let us know and someone in this group can mail you these.   i sound like a salesperson for multiple sclerosis! peggy

Response:

 Hi Susan  

May I introduce myself.  My name is Dotty and I live in Surrey, England

 

I am getting on a bit now, but I have had MS for nearly 50 years.

 

This comes from Dotty’s Den, somewhere in the heart of Surrey

 

Internet E mails ecstatically received at do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk

 

 

welcome and then some! to tired to write much more, my folks used to live

 S_

in south croyden, now they live in gerard’s cross. i just love

 S_

england, and scottland, oh well and turkey, and canada, and so on

 I live only a few miles from South Croydon so we could have been  neighbours:)  Look after yourself and write again  .E ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]   ___        _     _  / _  ___ | |__ | | Internet: do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk | | | |/ _ | ‘_ | | FidoNet : Dorothy Denn 2:254/233 | |_| | (_) | | | |_|  ___/ ___/|_| |_(_) Ooh! BBS London +44-181-395-3108 [MULTI-LINE]

Response:

 Hullo BJ  Bj

Welcome Dotty,

 Bj

Of course you can, I will look forward to hearing from you.

 Bj

((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

 

May I introduce myself.  My name is Dotty and I live in Surrey, England

 

I am getting on a bit now, but I have had MS for nearly 50 years.

 

I did have large spells of remission, but now I appear to be going

 

downhill faster than I would like.  May I please join this very caring

 

company

 Thank you for your welcome.  Our BBS has only taken this echo for a few  weeks, so it is all very strange.  I am surprised and sad at the number  of people that suffere from this crippling disease. Look afer yourself .E  This comes from Dotty’s Den, somewhere in the heart of Surrey Internet E mails ecstatically received at do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk         ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]   ___        _     _  / _  ___ | |__ | | Internet: do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk | | | |/ _ | ‘_ | | FidoNet : Dorothy Denn 2:254/233 | |_| | (_) | | | |_|  ___/ ___/|_| |_(_) Ooh! BBS London +44-181-395-3108 [MULTI-LINE]

Response:

 Hi Thel,  Th

Hello Dotty,

 Th

Welcome!  So glad to have you joining us.  I am sorry that you

 Th

are going downhill more quickly these days but I am sure you have many

 Th

happy memories of those good remissions.  I look forward to hearing

 Th

more from you. (Is ‘Dotty’ short for ‘Dorothy’? – don’t answer unless

 Th

you want to… I hope people are too polite to guess what my name is

 Th

short for…) Oh, yes, we have someone on this list (Bill in

 Th

New Mexico, where are you???) who just might have something to say

 Th

about being ‘chronologically disadvantaged’.  (ggg)

 Th

Sunshine,

 Th

Thel

Age has a lot of problems itself without having the MS dumped on top it it.  But I get by, one has too, very frustrating though<g

Yes my name is Dorothy, but I thought Dotty sounded more friendly, and that is also how I am known on my BBS.  I come from Sutton in Surrey, England, just a few miles south of London.  Where do you hail from? I have not yet heard from Bill in New Mexico, that pleasure I hope still to come.  Sorry this is brief, but I have had such a lot of welcoming messages, it is taking all my time (and strength) to answer them Speak to you soon  .E  This comes from Dotty’s Den, somewhere in the heart of Surrey Internet E mails ecstatically received at do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk         … To whom the gods destroy, they first teach Windows… ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]   ___        _     _  / _  ___ | |__ | | Internet: do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk | | | |/ _ | ‘_ | | FidoNet : Dorothy Denn 2:254/233 | |_| | (_) | | | |_|  ___/ ___/|_| |_(_) Ooh! BBS London +44-181-395-3108 [MULTI-LINE]

Response:

 Hi Peggy  Ab

hi dotty!

 Ab

please join in the fun anytime your heart desires!

 Nice to hear from you,  I do like this echo, everyone is so friendly.  Where are you, and how are you  Speak to you soon  .E  This comes from Dotty’s Den, somewhere in the heart of Surrey Internet E mails ecstatically received at do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk         … Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]   ___        _     _  / _  ___ | |__ | | Internet: do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk | | | |/ _ | ‘_ | | FidoNet : Dorothy Denn 2:254/233 | |_| | (_) | | | |_|  ___/ ___/|_| |_(_) Ooh! BBS London +44-181-395-3108 [MULTI-LINE]

Response:

Hi Jan  Js

Hi, Dorothy!  Welcome to this group!  We are always sad for the

 Js

_reason_  people join us, but always glad to have a new friend!  It

 Js

sounds like you  are still enjoying life…that’s what it’s all about,

 Js

eh?  When I was 30,  I was quite healthy, but my life was a mess, full

 Js

of fear, anger, and  mental pain.  Now I am 49, have MS, and am happier

 Js

than I have ever been  in my life!  Just goes to show you, mental

 Js

attitude is all!  And you seem  to have it.   Hope to hear more from

 Js

you, about your "den", Surrey, et  al.   Hugs and lots of warm

 Js

fluffies–JAN

 How lovely to hear from you, so may people have answered my message, I feel quite flattered<g

Yes I still enjoy life, if one can enjoy life

spending most of the day in a wheelchair.  But it is only after reading some of the postings here, I realise how much worse some other people are so I don’t grumble.  Sorry to hear how things are for you, there were time that I felt I could not go on, and people do not understand the mental torture one goes through.  I started having walking and sight problems when I was 16 – 17 years, but nobody took any notice.  The doctors and hospitals didn’t know what the matter was either.  Luckily I had long bouts of remission when everything seemed to be back to normal, then I would have a relapse.  But I managed to have two children (although I lost 4) aand have now 3 granchildren.  I was finally diagnosed 15 years ago, when my husband promptly left me.  Some people can be so stupid, I was sure he thought I would be in a wheelchair the next day, barmy and dribbling, and him having to look after me 24 hours a day.  I am much better off without him. So cheer up if you can, I know it can’t be easy sometimes life can be a proper b****r at times, but don’t let it win:)) Cheers .E  This comes from Dotty’s Den, somewhere in the heart of Surrey Internet E mails ecstatically received at do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk         … * Denn: Noun. A small cubby hole or place to hide. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]   ___        _     _  / _  ___ | |__ | | Internet: do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk | | | |/ _ | ‘_ | | FidoNet : Dorothy Denn 2:254/233 | |_| | (_) | | | |_|  ___/ ___/|_| |_(_) Ooh! BBS London +44-181-395-3108 [MULTI-LINE]

Response:

At 06:27 AM 3/14/96 GMT, you wrote:

Heloo everyone… I almost cried. My very good friend  MS.. Every 5 years or so she has experienced some MS symptoms.

        hi, you came to a very good place. i’ve had symptoms for almost 20 years, but just got diagnosed 6 years ago. it can be terrible, but livable. at least in my mind. i have days i’m depressed, days i’m angry, days i’m sad, sometimes all three. but i have so much to live for. even with my left sided paralysis i get along, not like i used to but i do. the checkers at the grocery store know i want paper, instead of plastic, there are 3 men that squabble about who will help me to the car, all sorts of good things. and i haven’t even mentioned the most wonderful guy i’m married to. yes that’s rightr my husband. so yes it’s a disturbing and frustrating disease, but can be lived through. we all here on the list are doing it.        treat your friend as you would have anyway, but when weird things happen, let her laugh or cry, or do both. if you are at a loss for words, the greatest thing for me to hear is: I AM HERE.         hope this helps, good luck a laugh a day keeps the blues away           susan

Response:

 Hi Cathy  Cm

Cheers Dotty!  Nice to ‘ear from someone from over ‘ome, as my dad

 Cm

calls it. My rellies hail from Faversham, Kent – is that close to

 Cm

Surrey?   Sorry to year you’ve been going downhill, but glad you’ve

 Cm

found us.  We’ll have to teach all these ‘mercans how to spell

 Cm

neighbour and theatre and how to say "schedule", eh what?

 Nice of you to answer my call.  Yes Kent is very close to Surrey, do you ever get over here at all.  I think I’m going downhill a bit faster now because I am OLD, I don’t want to be old, but the years are creeping up<sob

Suppose it comes to us all sometime<g Now be careful how you try

to teach these Yanks to spell, you don’t know who’s looking in, they might try and make fun of the English spellings. BTW I was speaking to a Lorraine Phillips in Calgary some time back.  She has never answered my netmail, she too has MS, do you know her at all?   Cm

Hope you’re well

  I’m keeping my pecker up <g

  Cheers   .E  This comes from Dotty’s Den, somewhere in the heart of Surrey Internet E mails ecstatically received at do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk         … Ground Beef – a  cow with no legs ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]   ___        _     _  / _  ___ | |__ | | Internet: do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk | | | |/ _ | ‘_ | | FidoNet : Dorothy Denn 2:254/233 | |_| | (_) | | | |_|  ___/ ___/|_| |_(_) Ooh! BBS London +44-181-395-3108 [MULTI-LINE]

Response:

do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk (Dorothy Denn) wrote:

Hi to all May I introduce myself.  My name is Dotty and I live in Surrey, England I am getting on a bit now, but I have had MS for nearly 50 years. I did have large spells of remission, but now I appear to be going downhill faster than I would like.  May I please join this very caring company Bye

hi dotty! please join in the fun anytime your heart desires! peggy

Response:

Hello Dotty,         Welcome!  So glad to have you joining us.  I am sorry that you are going downhill more quickly these days but I am sure you have many happy memories of those good remissions.  I look forward to hearing more from you. (Is ‘Dotty’ short for ‘Dorothy’? – don’t answer unless you want to… I hope people are too polite to guess what my name is short for…)         Oh, yes, we have someone on this list (Bill in New Mexico, where are you???) who just might have something to say about being ‘chronologically disadvantaged’.  (ggg) Sunshine, Thel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

May I introduce myself.  My name is Dotty and I live in Surrey, England I am getting on a bit now, but I have had MS for nearly 50 years. … I’m not old – just chronologically disadvantaged do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk

Response:

At 02:58  14/03/96 +0200, you wrote:

Hi to all May I introduce myself.  My name is Dotty and I live in Surrey, England I am getting on a bit now, but I have had MS for nearly 50 years. I did have large spells of remission, but now I appear to be going downhill faster than I would like.  May I please join this very caring company

Cheers Dotty!  Nice to ‘ear from someone from over ‘ome, as my dad calls it. My rellies hail from Faversham, Kent – is that close to Surrey?   Sorry to year you’ve been going downhill, but glad you’ve found us.  We’ll have to teach all these ‘mercans how to spell neighbour and theatre and how to say "schedule", eh what? Hope you’re well. Cathy in Calgary (Alberta, Canada)

Response:

Hi, Dorothy!  Welcome to this group!  We are always sad for the _reason_ people join us, but always glad to have a new friend!  It sounds like you are still enjoying life…that’s what it’s all about, eh?  When I was 30, I was quite healthy, but my life was a mess, full of fear, anger, and mental pain.  Now I am 49, have MS, and am happier than I have ever been in my life!  Just goes to show you, mental attitude is all!  And you seem to have it.   Hope to hear more from you, about your "den", Surrey, et al.   Hugs and lots of warm fluffies–JAN On 12 Mar 1996, Dorothy Denn wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi to all May I introduce myself.  My name is Dotty and I live in Surrey, England I am getting on a bit now, but I have had MS for nearly 50 years. I did have large spells of remission, but now I appear to be going downhill faster than I would like.  May I please join this very caring company Bye .E  This comes from Dotty’s Den, somewhere in the heart of Surrey Internet E mails ecstatically received at do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk         … I’m not old – just chronologically disadvantaged ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]   ___        _     _  / _  ___ | |__ | | Internet: do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk | | | |/ _ | ‘_ | | FidoNet : Dorothy Denn 2:254/233 | |_| | (_) | | | |_|  ___/ ___/|_| |_(_) Ooh! BBS London +44-181-395-3108 [MULTI-LINE]

Response:

Hi to all May I introduce myself.  My name is Dotty and I live in Surrey, England I am getting on a bit now, but I have had MS for nearly 50 years. I did have large spells of remission, but now I appear to be going downhill faster than I would like.  May I please join this very caring company Bye .E  This comes from Dotty’s Den, somewhere in the heart of Surrey Internet E mails ecstatically received at do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk         … I’m not old – just chronologically disadvantaged ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]   ___        _     _  / _  ___ | |__ | | Internet: do…@ooh.dircon.co.uk | | | |/ _ | ‘_ | | FidoNet : Dorothy Denn 2:254/233 | |_| | (_) | | | |_|  ___/ ___/|_| |_(_) Ooh! BBS London +44-181-395-3108 [MULTI-LINE]

Response:

We are ok. Thanks. It *does* hurt, what these bastards do. Somebody
brainwashed those suicide ‘living bombs’ that they will go straight to
paradise. Disgusting.
Love to all,
Chanoch Weil
ccan…@ALUF.TECHNION.AC.IL

Chanoch,  I take it you are in The Holy Land…my prayers are with you and your family.  On the humorous side (we must look for humor in the worst of situations!)  Picture the ‘living bombs’ waking up and realizing that ‘paradise is on fire!!!!’ May God bless and protect you, Karlyn

Response:

Dear Chanoch and Tamari: I am so glad you wrote and told us you were okay.  Since I’m not familiar with where each town is located, I don’t know who is getting the bombings.  It’s very scary for those of us who know people there.   They show everything on television, even the 5 yo’s who will replace the dead human bombs!  It is disgusting!  Somehow, they, the Muslims, must realize that for each human they kill, it does NOT mean going to their Paradise!   Please take good care of yourselves, and try not to let the stress get to you both:-)  We all care about you! Circles Of Love Around The World, Stelle

Response:

Heloo everyone… I have just discovered that I have internet mail and news at work so I have decided to have a look. When I saw this group I almost cried. My very good friend that I love very very much may have MS.. Every 5 years or so she has experienced some MS symptoms. A few years ago she almost lost her vision became blurry for a short time and lately her left arm has been ‘dieing’ on and off to put it in her words. She has been checked in to have a MS test performed. I think it is called MIA test. Please excuss my ignorance. Well my ignorance is really the reason for my posting here. Can someone please mail me some information about MS. whats it like living with it and how I should approach the problem with her. I really would like to hear it from someone who has MS rather than reading it in some med. journal. thankyou. Marcello. email : pcs…@devetir.qld.gov.au

Response:

Welcome Dotty, Of course you can, I will look forward to hearing from you. ((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

May I introduce myself.  My name is Dotty and I live in Surrey, England I am getting on a bit now, but I have had MS for nearly 50 years. I did have large spells of remission, but now I appear to be going downhill faster than I would like.  May I please join this very caring company

             B.J.        M.S.- THE DISEASE OF USED TO BE.                *HUGS*   For those looking for first-hand accounts of experiences with MS, try:        http://stripe.colorado.edu/~leonarm/ms         and don’t forget to leave your experiences too!     Take charge of your health-care, you are the boss and         you are the one the meds./treatments affect.

Response:

if…@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mary Johnson) wrote:

 Well, I guess I’m not up to much more right now – excuse my typos -I just don’t have the energy to fix them – it sure is great to talk to people who understand that!  See you!   Mary in Seattle

Hi Mary: Don’t worry about the typos and conserve your energy.  I’m glad you joined in with the group–Welcome! ((((Hugs)))) and o/ o/ Blessings o/ o/ Millie Ser…@pacificnet.net

Response:

Mary in Seatle, Welcome to the group – as I’ve seen a very caring group! I didn’t see any "typos" – I got a spell checker turned on, but sometimes I don’t agree with it "Joint pain" I’m in that group too!,  You and I have two things in common – I have an  8 yr old daughter and I’ve had MS for 22 years Time sure flys doesn’t it? The other day I had a conversation with an older gentleman and he was talking about how old he was feeling – got me thinking, I’ve been feeling old for a while now and I’m only 38. I don’t know how growing old feels – it just happened. I guess the saying really applies "young at heart" Anyway, hope to hear more from you. Eddie B

what you can do well today will be envied tomorrow <<

 ———- From: owner-mslist-l To: Multiple recipients of list MSLIST-L Subject: Hello Date: April 17, 1996 6:06PM Hi – I just started reading this ng (just sarted with computers for that matter).  I’ve had ms for 22yrs, been unable to work (except for being a single parent to my eight year old daughter) for the last eight.  I’m really glad to be joining this group, especially since I’ve never been part of a ms suport group.  I was interested to read several people saying they had joint pain similar to mine, since my dr. always says its nor considtent with ms.  I had all the arthritis tests also.  Well, I guess I’m not up to much more right now – excuse my typos -I just don’t have the energy to fix them – it sure is great to talk to people who understand that!  See you!   Mary in Seattle  – x x

Response:

Mary Johnson (if…@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote:

: Hi – I just started reading this ng (just sarted with computers : for that matter).  I’ve had ms for 22yrs, been unable to work : (except for being a single parent to my eight year old daughter) Thats a full time job. I was single parent to two boys and it was definitely an adventure. : for the last eight.  I’m really glad to be joining this group, : especially since I’ve never been part of a ms suport group.  I : was interested to read several people saying they had joint pain : similar to mine, since my dr. always says its nor considtent with : ms.  I had all the arthritis tests also.  Well, I guess I’m not : up to much more right now – excuse my typos -I just don’t have : the energy to fix them – it sure is great to talk to people who : understand that!  See you!   Mary in Seattle Joint pain is very consistent with MS. Its because we adapt the ways we do things to match our abilities. These adaptations cause us to use our skeleton in ways contrary to its design adding stress to the joints. If I have to walk a lot I get pain in my hip because of my gait, I have no feeling in my lower leg so the lower leg and foot muscles do not cushion my landing like they are supposed to. Bill in New Mexico

Response:

Hi – I just started reading this ng (just sarted with computers for that matter).  I’ve had ms for 22yrs, been unable to work (except for being a single parent to my eight year old daughter) for the last eight.  I’m really glad to be joining this group, especially since I’ve never been part of a ms suport group.  I was interested to read several people saying they had joint pain similar to mine, since my dr. always says its nor considtent with ms.  I had all the arthritis tests also.  Well, I guess I’m not up to much more right now – excuse my typos -I just don’t have the energy to fix them – it sure is great to talk to people who understand that!  See you!   Mary in Seattle — x x

Response:

Pauline wrote :

I’m in the UK & have PPMS so no meds.  I have worsening symptoms but not as disabled as some and fortunate to have little pain.  I have had only 1 MRI scan but am claustrophobic and had a panic attack after only 1 min. inside the tube. Take care, Pauline

Have you ever thought about sedation for the MRI?  You have to get there earlier, stay later, and have someone drive you, but it sounds like you had a bad time of it before. Good luck. Vincent

Response:

| Pauline wrote : |

I’m in the UK & have PPMS so no meds.  I have worsening

|

symptoms but not as disabled as some and fortunate to

|

have little pain.  I have had only 1 MRI scan but am

|

claustrophobic and had a panic attack after only 1 min.

|

inside the tube.

"Vincent" <show…@ev1.net

wrote in message |

| Have you ever thought about sedation for the MRI?  You have to get there | earlier, stay later, and have someone drive you, but it sounds like you had | a bad time of it before. | Good luck. Thanks but I doubt that I will ever have need for another scan but if I’m asked intend to spend the whole of it asleep. I didn’t realise how claustrophobic I was until I was enclosed inside the tube, although I did once spend a sleepless night in a windowless hotel room in Amsterdam.  How Anne Frank and others stayed imprisoned for years in those tiny garrets without going mad I don’t know.  Perhaps they did but then the alternative was much worse. Take care, Pauline

Response:

Nice to meet you.  Dx 12-98.  Copaxone. Take care, Vincent

Response:

"Ron" <nal…@comcast.net

wrote in message …

| Hello everyone |     My name is Ron I was dx’d 2 years ago with 1 major attack (my neuro is | pretty good) on Avonex pretty good so far side effects all but gone I am | also in a study in Boston where I went for my second opinion they say I am | a classic case and wanted me in this study it is a natural history study 10 | years long I go twice a year tons of blood work physco stuff and an Mri and | a damn long one too it’s a 3d mri and each one I do is over 2 hours long | 1/2 without gad and the other half with gad…. | As far as meds go I’m on provigil (a life saver)Zoloft,neurontim 1200mg a | day for some pain in my head which is kinda bad and various drugs for the | pain but so far nothing really good I am trying not to go for the narcotics | like Vicodin cause I work full time and I’d like to continue and do not want | to be doped too bad but other than that I am married to a wonderful | woman last year was 20 years and a daughter 18 who is ok (you know | haha) Anyway pleased to meet all of you. Pleased to meet you too Ron but sorry that any of us have reason to be here. I’m in the UK & have PPMS so no meds.  I have worsening symptoms but not as disabled as some and fortunate to have little pain.  I have had only 1 MRI scan but am claustrophobic and had a panic attack after only 1 min. inside the tube. Take care, Pauline

Response:

Hello everyone     My name is Ron I was dx’d 2 years ago with 1 major attack (my neuro is pretty good) on Avonex pretty good so far side effects all but gone I am also in a study in Boston where I went for my second opinion they say I am a classic case and wanted me in this study it is a natural history study 10 years long I go twice a year tons of blood work physco stuff and an Mri and a damn long one too it’s a 3d mri and each one I do is over 2 hours long 1/2 without gad and the other half with gad…. As far as meds go I’m on provigil (a life saver)Zoloft,neurontim 1200mg a day for some pain in my head which is kinda bad and various drugs for the pain but so far nothing really good I am trying not to go for the narcotics like Vicodin cause I work full time and I’d like to continue and do not want to be doped too bad but other than that I am married to a wonderful woman last year was 20 years and a daughter 18 who is ok (you know haha)     Anyway pleased to meet all of you.             Ron

Response:

Hi, my name is Don Anders and after a month of lurking in the background I thought it was time to introduce myself. I have gained more knowledge this month about what it means and doesn’t mean to have MS than ever before. I have also come to realize the importance of support among friends. Because of the slow course of my illness I had decided to ignore it for many years. I is just resently that I have come out of the closet. When I was a freshman in college I had my first symptom: a slight loss of vision in my right eye. The doctors at Johns Hopkins called it an idiosyncrasy and sent me on my merry way. Since I was 18 and invincible that was fine for me. By the time I was a senior I went to another eye doctor who told me that my optic neuritis could be an early sign of MS. This was just two weeks before  my marriage. I scared the hell out of me. What to do while waiting for a dx? In my case get married, have two children, finish graduate school, change jobs several times, move and work in three states: all the stuff people do. By the  time I was 40 nothing had happened; so I concluded that second doctor was an idiot. There was nothing wrong with me, after all, I had heard that MS was diagnosed in young people and I was now 42. Too old, right? Then at the end of my 42nd year the next set of symptoms hit. It was a year of  stress for me. I sold one business and started another, we renovated a house built in 1824, and then my wife died. I guess stress sure does influence the course of MS.  For the next ten years I have had a few more symptoms but they have progressed slowly. I am now back teaching at a local college, am in a wonderful relationship, and am the grandfather of a 14 month old boy. MS has not stopped me from enjoying life to the best that I can. Sorry if this is long posting, but this is the first time that I have openly talked about this stuff to anyone other than my children and my SO.

Response:

Welcome Don!

Response:

Hi,     I posted on this website recently and found the responses I received very helpful.     I had written in that I had fallen and was concerned that it was related to the MS and could happen again.      Of course there’s no way to know for sure;  the doctor feels that since I have a slight weakness in my left side,  I may have tripped and not felt it.      But for now, I wear shoes with good support(As suggested) and go at a slower pace.                Hannah

Response:

Hannah1…@webtv.net wrote:

<<    I had written in that I had fallen and was concerned that it was related to the MS and could happen again.

  You are correct, this fall may have been related to weakness on one side, or some other aspect of your MS, or it may have ben the result of a momentary loss of focus on what you were doing! This happens to EVERYONE MS or no MS. Many times we attribute to MS a problem that may be due to other issues, or due to nothing in particular, that is one of the … lovely … things about MS it’s unpredictability! Since starting on Copaxone I fall down a lot less often, but I have done my share of Chevy Chase initato pratalls as well, some years ago long preceding diagnosis! My friend jane Vessey ued to refer to this as," there was a thread on the carpet that needed tripping over", and that is as good of a reason as any.  Be well!    LarryC (Who used to be dadman@erols but now is larcrav…@aol.com  

Response:

Hi Ron Sorry you have MS but this group is great ~ (I had trouble with my server and am still working on it.) I take neurontin as well for pain ~ think it’s a brilliant drug but so expensive (my GP got me $600 worth free recently via the rep!!!) I hope you get good results from the trial you are on. Welcome to a group of fun and info.I live in Australia. Barb "Giganews" <nal…@comcast.net

wrote in message

news:TvOcnbZI1scAzk-jXTWcpA@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello everyone     My name is Ron I was dx’d 2 years ago with 1 major attack (my neuro is pretty good) on Avonex pretty good so far side effects all but gone I am also in a study in Boston where I went for my second opinion they say I am

a

classic case and wanted me in this study it is a natural history study 10 years long I go twice a year tons of blood work physco stuff and an Mri

and

a damn long one too it’s a 3d mri and each one I do is over 2 hours long

1/2

without gad and the other half with gad…. As far as meds go I’m on provigil (a life saver)Zoloft,neurontim 1200mg a day for some pain in my head which is kinda bad and various drugs for the pain but so far nothing really good I am trying not to go for the

narcotics

like Vicodin cause I work full time and I’d like to continue and do not

want

to be doped too bad but other than that I am married to a wonderful woman last year was 20 years and a daughter 18 who is ok (you know haha)     Anyway pleased to meet all of you.             Ron

Response:

Hi, Ron, There are many ideas floating around this group and most are very, very useful.  I have found out so many things from this eclectic bunch. I assume you have seen Paul Jones’ website?  It is the first thing I usually refer people to because of the wealth of information – real information, not quackery. http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/ Read and post.  We need you.  We want you.   – Lynne "Giganews" <nal…@comcast.net

wrote in message

news:TvOcnbZI1scAzk-jXTWcpA@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello everyone     My name is Ron I was dx’d 2 years ago with 1 major attack (my neuro is pretty good) on Avonex pretty good so far side effects all but gone I am also in a study in Boston where I went for my second opinion they say I am

a

classic case and wanted me in this study it is a natural history study 10 years long I go twice a year tons of blood work physco stuff and an Mri

and

a damn long one too it’s a 3d mri and each one I do is over 2 hours long

1/2

without gad and the other half with gad…. As far as meds go I’m on provigil (a life saver)Zoloft,neurontim 1200mg a day for some pain in my head which is kinda bad and various drugs for the pain but so far nothing really good I am trying not to go for the

narcotics

like Vicodin cause I work full time and I’d like to continue and do not

want

to be doped too bad but other than that I am married to a wonderful woman last year was 20 years and a daughter 18 who is ok (you know haha)     Anyway pleased to meet all of you.             Ron

Response:

Ron, hi and welcome. You’re lucky to be near a center where they have a study going. But that MRI sounds like a doozy. Hope you’re not claustrophobic. They’ve never bothered me, but I know a lot of people have problems with them. It sounds like you’re dealing with your dx pretty well, and that you have a good support system. That’s crucial. And not taking any more meds than absolutely necessary is a good thing, as each med, though fixing one symp, gives you a side effect. Check in with us whenever with questions/comments. There are as many opinions here as there are people! — Shirley B. ASMS List #6 http://come.to/ASMS-Lists "Making a way out of No Way is sometimes the Only way" Dr. Johnnetta B. Cole TO REPLY BY EMAIL REMOVE  ’NICK’ "Giganews" <nal…@comcast.net

wrote in message

news:TvOcnbZI1scAzk-jXTWcpA@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello everyone     My name is Ron I was dx’d 2 years ago with 1 major attack (my neuro is pretty good) on Avonex pretty good so far side effects all but gone I am also in a study in Boston where I went for my second opinion they say I am

a

classic case and wanted me in this study it is a natural history study 10 years long I go twice a year tons of blood work physco stuff and an Mri

and

a damn long one too it’s a 3d mri and each one I do is over 2 hours long

1/2

without gad and the other half with gad…. As far as meds go I’m on provigil (a life saver)Zoloft,neurontim 1200mg a day for some pain in my head which is kinda bad and various drugs for the pain but so far nothing really good I am trying not to go for the

narcotics

like Vicodin cause I work full time and I’d like to continue and do not

want

to be doped too bad but other than that I am married to a wonderful woman last year was 20 years and a daughter 18 who is ok (you know haha)     Anyway pleased to meet all of you.             Ron

Response:

Hello everyone     My name is Ron I was dx’d 2 years ago with 1 major attack (my neuro is pretty good) on Avonex pretty good so far side effects all but gone I am also in a study in Boston where I went for my second opinion they say I am a classic case and wanted me in this study it is a natural history study 10 years long I go twice a year tons of blood work physco stuff and an Mri and a damn long one too it’s a 3d mri and each one I do is over 2 hours long 1/2 without gad and the other half with gad…. As far as meds go I’m on provigil (a life saver)Zoloft,neurontim 1200mg a day for some pain in my head which is kinda bad and various drugs for the pain but so far nothing really good I am trying not to go for the narcotics like Vicodin cause I work full time and I’d like to continue and do not want to be doped too bad but other than that I am married to a wonderful woman last year was 20 years and a daughter 18 who is ok (you know haha)     Anyway pleased to meet all of you.             Ron

Response:

Sorry the first one went out under my boyfriend e-mail had to change disregaurd Tim Ridolfi it should be from Terri.I have been reading this since I was dx on april fools day this year some joke hey. Since then I have had a course of IV steriods and I am taking a 20 day steriods oral no and I am on Amantadine and lots of other things. Now that we know what is wrong I think I have had it all my life just little relaps now and then. But I have been though the ring for the last 3 years and it finally got so bad they couldn’t deni it anymore and so 3 mris and a year off work they said you have MS. Now what happens How do you keep stress out of your life and not make you sick? I wish there ws someone to tell me what to exspect my doc and nero say that it is differnent for everyone. I have enjoyed the group and reading your stories it has help when I am down.  I would like to take part now in the group.

Response:

Hi Terri, Welcome to the group (sorry for the reason). How you keep stress out of your life?  That’s a question which has both easy and hard answers.  What’s necessary is to remodel your personality and life such that they accommodate your MS problems (and limit potential stressors).  That sounds good but it’s a process of making small changes a little at a time. The first thing to try is to make sure you do 1 thing for YOURSELF every day! Z http://www.mindspring.com/~cczimmer/ +————————————————————————+ + Carolyn C. Zimmer       | "I’ve been warped by the rain,               | + Duluth, GA              |  driven by the snow, I’m drunk and dirty,    | + cczim…@mindspring.com |  don’t you know, But I’m still…willin’"    | + STANDARD DISCLAIMER     |                               Lowell George  | +————————————————————————+

Response:

        Welcome aboard!!  Sorry MS is so individualistic and so different at different times of day or weeks it’s hard to know what a doctor should tell you.         Stress: I use hypnosis, relaxation tapes, now I think spring is here in NH  i can start working on my  landlady’s window box, I do deep breathing and watch funny videos, and of course there’s the list to let my feelings out, be they scared, angry, funny, sad, etc.  Glad you are here sorry for the reason. At 09:57 PM 5/1/97 -0500, you wrote:

Sorry the first one went out under my boyfriend e-mail had to change disregaurd Tim Ridolfi it should be from Terri.I have been reading this since I was dx on april fools day this year some joke hey. Since then I have had a course of IV steriods and I am taking a 20 day steriods oral no and I am on Amantadine and lots of other things. Now that we know what is wrong I think I have had it all my life just little relaps now and then. But I have been though the ring for the last 3 years and it finally got so bad they couldn’t deni it anymore and so 3 mris and a year off work they said you have MS. Now what happens How do you keep stress out of your life and not make you sick? I wish there ws someone to tell me what to exspect my doc and nero say that it is differnent for everyone. I have enjoyed the group and reading your stories it has help when I am down.  I would like to take part now in the group.

   |      _,,,—,,_                    luv susan    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_                 s_guzie…@conknet.com   |,4-  ) )-,_..; (  `’-’  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_)  fL      The mind is its own place, and in itself, can make heaven of Hell, and a hell of Heaven. -John Milton

Response:

Thank you so much for you support it always helps to know that there is someone out there. Since I can do this with anyone in my family. At 05:45 PM 5/5/97 +0300, you wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

       Welcome aboard!!  Sorry MS is so individualistic and so different at different times of day or weeks it’s hard to know what a doctor should tell

you.

       Stress: I use hypnosis, relaxation tapes, now I think spring is here in NH  i can start working on my  landlady’s window box, I do deep breathing and watch funny videos, and of course there’s the list to let my feelings out, be they scared, angry, funny, sad, etc.  Glad you are here sorry for the reason. At 09:57 PM 5/1/97 -0500, you wrote: Sorry the first one went out under my boyfriend e-mail had to change disregaurd Tim Ridolfi it should be from Terri.I have been reading this since I was dx on april fools day this year some joke hey. Since then I have had a course of IV steriods and I am taking a 20 day steriods oral no and I am on Amantadine and lots of other things. Now that we know what is wrong I think I have had it all my life just little relaps now and then. But I have been though the ring for the last 3 years and it finally got so bad they couldn’t deni it anymore and so 3 mris and a year off work they said you have MS. Now what happens How do you keep stress out of your life and not make you sick? I wish there ws someone to tell me what to exspect my doc and nero say that it is differnent for everyone. I have enjoyed the group and reading your stories it has help when I am down.  I would like to take part now in the group.   |      _,,,—,,_                    luv susan   /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_                 s_guzie…@conknet.com  |,4-  ) )-,_..; (  `’-’ ‘—”(_/–’  `-’_)  fL     The mind is its own place, and in itself, can make heaven of Hell, and a hell of Heaven. -John Milton

Response:

Hello. I’m new at this so I hope I’m doing it right. This is my first mailing list. I’m really enjoying the letters I read. They have quite a bit of information in them about meds and coping with this wonderful illness we all share. I also enjoy reading the jokes some of you have written. It’s nice to hear that others are dealing with this M.S. with a sense of humor. I have Chronic Progressive, and am  pretty much wheelchairbound. I find that trying not to take this illness too seriously and looking at the fact that there is always someone worse of than I am helps.I am very grateful and fortunate that I am blessed with such a supportive family and friends. It sure helps beat the depression that comes with this illness and the meds. The one thing l learned is that you can sure tell who your friends are real quick. Anyway I am glad I joined this list. You folks seem very kind, warm and friendly. I look forward  to more.                Sincerely……………..Gwendolyn.

Response:

Hi Gwendolyn, Welcome to the group. I am also cp and wheelchair bound. This group is a lifesaver. Most of my friends walked out on me also. They didn’t even want to try to understand. It’s so sad this…but you’re right about one thing…You quickly find out who your friends are. My only consolation in regards to this miserable illness, are groups like this. Here you find caring, warmth, support, and information. Everyone is in the same boat, so at least we understand each other. Take care!!!!! Dawn ******************* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello. I’m new at this so I hope I’m doing it right. This is my first mailing list. I’m really enjoying the letters I read. They have quite a bit of information in them about meds and coping with this wonderful illness we all share. I also enjoy reading the jokes some of you have written. It’s nice to hear that others are dealing with this M.S. with a sense of humor. I have Chronic Progressive, and am  pretty much wheelchairbound. I find that trying not to take this illness too seriously and looking at the fact that there is always someone worse of than I am helps.I am very grateful and fortunate that I am blessed with such a supportive family and friends. It sure helps beat the depression that comes with this illness and the meds. The one thing l learned is that you can sure tell who your friends are real quick. Anyway I am glad I joined this list. You folks seem very kind, warm and friendly. I look forward  to more.               Sincerely……………..Gwendolyn.

Response:

At 12:56 PM 5/25/97 -0400, you wrote:

Hello. I’m new at this so I hope I’m doing it right. This is my first mailing list. I’m really enjoying the letters I read. They have quite a bit of information in them about meds and coping with this wonderful illness we all share. I also enjoy reading the jokes some of you have written. It’s nice to hear that others are dealing with this M.S. with a sense of humor.

Hi Gwendolyn: Welcome aboard and your coming through loud and clear. Lots of really nice people who are willing to share their information, support and most important a sense of humor!!!!! Toodles, Pam McHenry   Indianapolis, IN

Response:

On 5/25/97 you wrote:

Hello. I’m new at this so I hope I’m doing it right. This is my first

mailing

list. I’m really enjoying the letters I read. They have quite a bit of information in them about meds and coping with this wonderful illness we

all

share. I also enjoy reading the jokes some of you have written. It’s nice

to

hear that others are dealing with this M.S. with a sense of humor.

Gwendolyn,      Hi & welcome to the list!  Although I’m not glad you need to be here, I’m glad you found us.  There are a lot of great folks, info & humor here.  Post whenever you like.  And whatever you did, it worked just fine!!     Lyse                                                    U,  ,U     Doggies are just kids in fur!       ==o==

Response:

Hi Gwendolyn, Welcome to the group — especially with your positive attitude. The other day I was discussing mobility aids with a friend (his wife has other problems and really needs to be using a cane but won’t), and came to a startling conclusion about them — MOBILITY AIDS ARE TOOLS, and what humans are particulary good at (besides language) is making and using TOOLS! If you require a wheelchair for mobility (as I did for 1 1/2 years, and still do for long distance, shorter I just use my cane), then be thankful that you are able to get one!   Z http://www.mindspring.com/~cczimmer/ +————————————————————————+ + Carolyn C. Zimmer       | "I’ve been warped by the rain,               | + Duluth, GA              |  driven by the snow, I’m drunk and dirty,    | + cczim…@mindspring.com |  don’t you know, But I’m still…willin’"    | + STANDARD DISCLAIMER     |                               Lowell George  | +————————————————————————+

Response:

THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THE NET.  I’VE HAD M.S. NOW FOR 7 YEARS, AND BECAME WHEELCHAIR BOUND IN JUST THE LAST YEAR.  I’VE BEEN BATTLING DEPRESSION SINCE I WAS DIAGNOSED.  I’VE TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE MANY TIMES.  I FINALLY ACCEPTED MY CONDITION  JUST LAST YEAR, AND AM COPING ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS.  I HAVE 2 CHILDREN ONE 10 AND ONE 4.  MY HUSBAND IS THERE BUT DOESN’T UNDERSTAND OR EVEN TRY. I HOPE I CAN FIND SUPPORT AND UNDERSTANDING FROM THIS GROUP. SUSAN DEMELLO CALIFORNIA

Response:

SUSAN, Welcome to the MS List. I firmly believe that you will find all the understanding and warm-hearted support you seek here. There are a lot of great people here. Don’t be shy. Please make comments and ask all the questions you like. You can’t possibly ask too many. You will receive answers and support from a variety of kindly people who have experienced many of your MS problems, so they will understand what you are going through. Whenever you do not receive the specific information  you are after, please be persistent. Ask again and again until you receive what you need. You won’t offend anybody by being persistent and you will be amply rewarded. You will also have the opportunity to pass on to others what you have learned about how to deal with your MS. Please try to feel like one of the family. You’ll be surprised at the warmth you will find. I’m sorry to learn that your husband is not being as supportive as he should be. Those of us who have supportive spouses are, indeed, fortunate. Maybe there is some way that you can encourage your spouse to learn more about MS and to be more supportive. Ask others on this list if they have found any way to accomplish that. Maybe you can find a way. I sincerely hope you can. In the meantime and forever, we will be you family. With the hope that you will find the support you need here, best wishes, Paul Bruce From: SUSAN DEMELLO, carsdn…@aol.com (CARSDNTED), Date: 13 Jun 1997 18:36:15 GMT: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THE NET.  I’VE HAD M.S. NOW FOR 7 YEARS, AND BECAME WHEELCHAIR BOUND IN JUST THE LAST YEAR.  I’VE BEEN BATTLING DEPRESSION SINCE I WAS DIAGNOSED.  I’VE TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE MANY TIMES.  I FINALLY ACCEPTED MY CONDITION  JUST LAST YEAR, AND AM COPING ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS.  I HAVE 2 CHILDREN ONE 10 AND ONE 4.  MY HUSBAND IS THERE BUT DOESN’T UNDERSTAND OR EVEN TRY. I HOPE I CAN FIND SUPPORT AND UNDERSTANDING FROM THIS GROUP. SUSAN DEMELLO CALIFORNIA Path: lobby01.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!audrey02. news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: carsdn…@aol.com (CARSDNTED) Newsgroups: alt.support.mult-sclerosis Subject: Re: Hello Date: 13 Jun 1997 18:36:15 GMT Lines: 11 Message-ID: <19970613183600.OAA14…@ladder02.news.aol.com

NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder02.news.aol.com X-Admin: n…@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <199705261618.MAA09…@jacinet.johnabbott.qc.ca

Response:

Dear Susan,         Oh honey, have you come to the right place!  You’ll get all the love and understanding and support you could possibly ask for and then some.  You can feel free to ask any questions or express any feelings you could possibly have.  Here you can rant, rave, laugh, cry, learn and love. Folks here know what you’re going thru and know how you feel.  Somebody, if not several somebodies, has been there, done that and can help you along the way.         Thank God your suicide attempts failed.  Life ain’t over just cuz you’ve got MS.  It’s just different that’s all.  You can also get meds that will help with your depression.  Sometimes depression comes just from being diagnosed and sometimes it’s actually caused by the MS itself, but there IS help for it. And you’ve got two little kids who need their Mom – no matter what shape she’s in.  Besides, there are so many new things today to help treat the symptoms – things that weren’t around even 7 yrs. ago when you were diagnosed.  They’re closer to a cure now than ever before.         We also have some hubbies here whose wives have MS.  It’s possible that they can help you help your husband.  Kevin, Nik, Robert – give this lady a hand please!  Carolyn might be able to help too – she’s the wife of an MSer who now has it too.  She’s seen the picture from both sides.         As for me, I’m just part of the welcoming committee when I can be. My daughter has MS – dx’d at 19, gonna be 25 next week and is getting married in October.  I’ve also got big shoulders if ya need ‘em, or I can give a good swift kick in the butt if that’s called for.         If you read the thread "Getting to Know You" you’ll get to meet a number of us and maybe feel comfortable enough to tell us some more about yourself and your family.  We’re here for you, individually and as a whole.  Welcome to the family.  Very glad you found us.         Hugs n prayers,         P. At 18:36 6/13/97 GMT, you wrote:

THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THE NET.  I’VE HAD M.S. NOW FOR 7 YEARS, AND BECAME WHEELCHAIR BOUND IN JUST THE LAST YEAR.  I’VE BEEN BATTLING DEPRESSION SINCE I WAS DIAGNOSED.  I’VE TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE MANY TIMES.  I FINALLY ACCEPTED MY CONDITION  JUST LAST YEAR, AND AM COPING ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS.  I HAVE 2 CHILDREN ONE 10 AND ONE 4.  MY HUSBAND IS THERE BUT DOESN’T UNDERSTAND OR EVEN TRY. I HOPE I CAN FIND SUPPORT AND UNDERSTANDING FROM THIS GROUP. SUSAN DEMELLO CALIFORNIA

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Some days you’re the pigeon and some days you’re the statue.              PamY Spokesmom for Jennie who has MS. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Response:

Susan, You came to the right group for support and understanding.  Please realize that your children and family need you.  Whatever questions you have, we have some answers or can point you in the right direction to get the help you need.  Of course, sometimes we may not have *the* answer you want or need, but we are here for you, none the less.  I think you will realize that just having this group around is going to make a *big* difference in your life and the way you deal with your disease.  Not only can you glean useful, scientific information about MS, you have the opportunity to hear from people who are in your shoes – they can tell you what works (and doesn’t work) for them in regards to daily living. Please write often and let us know how we can help. Sincerely Cathy from Illinois

THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THE NET.  I’VE HAD M.S. NOW FOR 7 YEARS, AND BECAME WHEELCHAIR BOUND IN JUST THE LAST YEAR.  I’VE BEEN BATTLING DEPRESSION SINCE I WAS DIAGNOSED.  I’VE TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE MANY TIMES.  I FINALLY ACCEPTED MY CONDITION  JUST LAST YEAR, AND AM COPING ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS.  I HAVE 2 CHILDREN ONE 10 AND ONE 4.  MY HUSBAND IS THERE BUT DOESN’T UNDERSTAND OR EVEN TRY. I HOPE I CAN FIND SUPPORT AND UNDERSTANDING FROM THIS GROUP. SUSAN DEMELLO CALIFORNIA

Cathy Ashmore Information Technology Services Eastern Illinois University Charleston, IL  61920 217.581.2727

Response:

Hi Susan – I’m very sorry about the difficulties you are having emotionally. This group is a wonderful place to get information and support. Many of us have had MS with various degrees of disability (and many, many different symptoms), for a long time. Please feel free to vent your frustration and ask questions. I certainly hope that you have a good neurologist that is knowledgeable about the drugs currently available. Let us know a little about you when you become comfortable with us. Someone may have suggestions that will help you cope. And as PamY said, there are people here to help your husband too. I contacted the National Multiple Sclerosis Society (NMSS), and went to their counseling for newly diagnosed people. This included one session that my husband and father attended. It really helped them understand better what I was going through. I strongly recommend counseling of some sort for both of you!! Where abouts in California do you live? I live in Ventura County (Oxnard) and there are several others here from California too…LaVonne is in San Diego, Marilyn is in Oakland, Sharon in Guadalupe, Stelle in Agoura….let us know where you are. Welcome aboard. Let us help you if we can. Candace PS Your email address is intriguing. Sounds like an auto body shop, or demolition derby, or junk yard or something. (Oh yeah, just so you know, most people don’t use all capital letters when they send Email – it is considered the equivalent of yelling!)

Response:

        Well I’m sure glad you found us.  yes coping on a day to day basis is about all we can do.  Maybe you and your husband can find a support group that you could visit together. He might be reacting to fear.         At least this group offers understanding, empathy, share what you are comfortable with we are here to support one another.  It’s like a family and do have the minor squabbles from time to time.         Here’s a heartfelt welcome to the group, I hope you make use of us. (((((((hugs))))) At 06:36 PM 6/13/97 GMT, you wrote:

THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THE NET.  I’VE HAD M.S. NOW FOR 7 YEARS, AND BECAME WHEELCHAIR BOUND IN JUST THE LAST YEAR.  I’VE BEEN BATTLING DEPRESSION SINCE I WAS DIAGNOSED.  I’VE TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE MANY TIMES.  I FINALLY ACCEPTED MY CONDITION  JUST LAST YEAR, AND AM COPING ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS.  I HAVE 2 CHILDREN ONE 10 AND ONE 4.  MY HUSBAND IS THERE BUT DOESN’T UNDERSTAND OR EVEN TRY. I HOPE I CAN FIND SUPPORT AND UNDERSTANDING FROM THIS GROUP. SUSAN DEMELLO CALIFORNIA

   |      _,,,—,,_                    luv susan    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_                 s_guzie…@conknet.com   |,4-  ) )-,_..; (  `’-’  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_) fl  The mind is its own place,  and in itself, can make                             heaven of Hell, and a hell of Heaven. -John Milton

Response:

On Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:57:55 -0400, PamY <den…@EQUINOX.NET

wrote:

(snip) :        We also have some hubbies here whose wives have MS.  It’s possible :that they can help you help your husband.  Kevin, Nik, Robert – give this :lady a hand please!   (snip) Susan, Sometimes the social side effects of MS are as difficult to deal with as the disease itself.  Because many of the symptoms of MS are not visible from the outside, it is hard for someone who doesn’t have MS to understand.  See the message from chantel…@aol.com, subject "Hidden MS — You Look So Good (Invisible MS symptoms)", posted 6/14/97. Your husband doesn’t understand.  As a husband of someone with MS, neither do I.  The difference is, I _know_ I don’t understand. Reading the messages from this group, and thinking about the way Nella acted, I found that she has many of the symptoms described here that she never told me about.  She didn’t want to be a whiner.  When I asked her about some of them, she said, "Oh, that’s been happening for two or three years.  But you can’t do anything about it anyway, so I just learned to live with it." While Nella’s attitude of not wanting to bother me is admirable in its way, it does not foster good communication between spouses.  If I don’t know she gets exhausted easily, she looks lazy to me.  If I don’t know that she has cognitive problems from MS, she looks thoughtless.  If I don’t know she has coordination problems, she looks careless.  If I don’t know that her condition can get worse unexpectedly, she looks unreliable. As in any marriage, the secret is communication, communication, communication.  If communication doesn’t happen, you get misunderstandings.  Misunderstandings range from trivial through nuisance, annoyance, and pain in the rear to major problem.  Example of misunderstanding from poor communication:  I spent months or years being annoyed with Nella over her insistence on using towels where hot pads would be appropriate.  I could never find the hot pads, the towels would soak with liquid and weren’t practical, she was just being silly and inconveniencing me.  It turns out that she needs to use towels because she has lost temperature sensation in her hands.  Using hot pads, she can burn herself by not noticing that she misses the pad part,  The towels have greater area to cope with this, and are thinner and easier to deal with for her reduced coordination.  I didn’t know this till I saw some posts here about loss of temperature sensation.   Recalling some things I had observed in Nella, I asked her about this symptom and we talked about it for a few minutes.  This got rid of a long-standing, if minor, emotional conflict between us.  Communication, communication, communication! Even if I understand the fatigue, coordination problems, cognitive difficulties, etc., as well as can be understood from the oustide, MS still presents difficulties for me as the spouse of the affected person.  The difficulties of MS interact with every other challenge life throws our way and seem to make many of them more difficult to deal with. You have two children, ages 10 and 4.  Anyone who has had kids knows that small children take a lot of parental energy.  MS causes (among other things) fatigue and lack of energy.  Given that you have had MS for 7 years, I expect that the last 4 of them (at least) have been a process of moving from one crisis to the next in child rearing, frequently having to ask your husband to help out in ways that other husbands don’t have to.  If he has been trying at all to be a good father and husband, he is likely emotionally exhausted, stressed, and unable to cope with the situation.  Been there, done that.  If you both keep working on it, eventually things get better.  (I have war stories, but this message is already long.) If your husband is still there, he may be trying more than you think. He will have his problems, too.  One of them is that you have worse problems, so he will feel he has no right to complain.  Much of the work of adjusting your household to accomodate a wheelchair will fall on his shoulders; this is in addition to earning a living, being a good father, and whatever else is going on in his life.  It’s tough, just not as tough as what you are going through. Free advice, worth what it costs:  Think about how this is for him. Show him messages from people about how they cope, and discuss how your experience is similar or different.  Show him this message and talk about where I’ve hit the mark and what I’ve guessed that doesn’t apply to your situation.   Don’t assume he can see how you are doing just because it’s so obvious to you.  Keep coming back to the online support group and let us know how you’re doing; the people here can be very supportive. Kevin : :At 18:36 6/13/97 GMT, you wrote: :

THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THE NET.  I’VE HAD M.S. NOW FOR 7 YEARS,

AND :

BECAME WHEELCHAIR BOUND IN JUST THE LAST YEAR.  I’VE BEEN BATTLING

:

DEPRESSION SINCE I WAS DIAGNOSED.  I’VE TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE MANY

:

TIMES.  I FINALLY ACCEPTED MY CONDITION  JUST LAST YEAR, AND AM

COPING ON :

A DAY TO DAY BASIS.  I HAVE 2 CHILDREN ONE 10 AND ONE 4.  MY HUSBAND

IS :

THERE BUT DOESN’T UNDERSTAND OR EVEN TRY. I HOPE I CAN FIND SUPPORT

AND :

UNDERSTANDING FROM THIS GROUP.

:

:

SUSAN DEMELLO

:

CALIFORNIA

:

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ :Some days you’re the pigeon and :some days you’re the statue. :             PamY :Spokesmom for Jennie who has MS. :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ kclnfltr @ frontiernet.net It is impossible to make anything foolproof,   because fools are so ingenious. — Eleventh Corollary to Murphy’s Law

Response:

Well I’m sure glad you found us.  yes coping on a day to day basis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

is about all we can do.  Maybe you and your husband can find a support group that you could visit together. He might be reacting to fear.         At least this group offers understanding, empathy, share what you are comfortable with we are here to support one another.  It’s like a family and do have the minor squabbles from time to time.         Here’s a heartfelt welcome to the group, I hope you make use of us. (((((((hugs))))) At 06:36 PM 6/13/97 GMT, you wrote: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THE NET.  I’VE HAD M.S. NOW FOR 7 YEARS, AND BECAME WHEELCHAIR BOUND IN JUST THE LAST YEAR.  I’VE BEEN BATTLING DEPRESSION SINCE I WAS DIAGNOSED.  I’VE TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE MANY TIMES.  I FINALLY ACCEPTED MY CONDITION  JUST LAST YEAR, AND AM COPING ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS.  I HAVE 2 CHILDREN ONE 10 AND ONE 4.  MY HUSBAND IS THERE BUT DOESN’T UNDERSTAND OR EVEN TRY. I HOPE I CAN FIND SUPPORT AND UNDERSTANDING FROM THIS GROUP. SUSAN DEMELLO CALIFORNIA    |      _,,,—,,_                    luv susan    /,`.-’`’    -.  ;-;;,_                 s_guzie…@conknet.com   |,4-  ) )-,_..; (  `’-’  ’—”(_/–’  `-’_) fl  The mind is its own place,  and in itself, can make                             heaven of Hell, and a hell of Heaven. -John Milton

Gee, Susan, depression and suicidal thoughts seems to be a big part of the emotional side of MS.  I was very depressed (from lack of a diagnosis for a long time, and then anxiety attacks after that), but fortunately my neuro early on prescribed elavil on a daily basis (40 mg at bedtime, but I could take up to 100 mg daily he said–I don’t think I could stand it).  But it helps me a lot and if i start worrying or getting anxious, I usually realize I’ve forgotten to take my elavil. Good luck.  We care.  My sustaining thought is by Robert Frost:  "One thing I’ve learned about life: it goes on." Brenda S.

Response:

Welcome to our group Susan!!! I’m so sorry MS is the reason you have to come here, but also so very glad you chose to do so.  We all try to help each other in both good times and bad.  I too suffer from depression, and also live in California.  I’m in the Santa Monica Mountains, 8 miles to Malibu. If you’re close by, I’ll send you my phone number, if you’d like, and you can call me.   My husband is there for me, and we went to a couples group from the MS Society, which helped us a lot.  I also went to the Newly Dx’ed Group and also was a Peer Counseler for 4 years.  Plus I ran a support group in Thousand Oaks for 4 years too.  That group also helped me.  We have to have places and people to turn to, who know what we’re going through.  It must be very hard for our spouses to understand. Especially, when "we look so good"!   I tried Prozac and became very suicidal on it.  So, I changed to Zoloft and it works great for me.  I now take 200mg/day.  Otherwise, not only would I be depressed, but I would be crying at inappropriate times, like with tv commercials and funny movies.  I also take Effexor too.  I have to see a Psychiatrist in order to get these anti-depressant meds.  I see her about 4 times a year. I do hope your husband will either read some of the newly dx’ed info, or join you in a couples group.  Another choice is for him and you too, to have separate Peer Counselers, provided for free, just by asking, from the MS Society.   Let me know if I can be of further assistance. Warm hugs, Stelle

Response:

Welcome to Gwen and all the other new people who’ve joined our wonderful group.  I’m so sorry that MS is the reason, but very happy you chose to join us.  Let me know if I can be of any assistance. Warm Hugs, Stelle

Response:

Thank you, Kevin!  I printed out your post for my grown daughters. It helped me understand that by being stoic I am NOT being brave, I am hindering communication and exacerbating misunderstanding. What a wonderful lesson.  Again, thank you! (((hugs))) to you and your wife. Jeanie

Response:

Hi there Susan, Just wanted to add my welcome to everyone else’s and to say how much I have valued this group since becoming a part of it some months ago.  Hope you will feel able to participate and enjoy it too.  Jim is here in the background – reading posts, learning a lot, and generally being supportive to me.   He doesn’t usually post up to the group but I know he would be delighted to reply to any individual e-mails from anyone who might like his perspective. Kevin is absolutely right in his comments about ongoing communications – when we first found this group Jim was hurt and a bit cross because he said he was finding out more about me from reading my postings to the group than he was from living with me daily(!); and so he was, because for the first time I had found somewhere I could be open and honest instead of conveying the impression that all was ok all the time. Good luck and warm wishes from us both Helen and Jim

Response:

THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THE NET.  I’VE HAD M.S. NOW FOR 7 YEARS, AND BECAME WHEELCHAIR BOUND IN JUST THE LAST YEAR.  I’VE BEEN BATTLING DEPRESSION SINCE I WAS DIAGNOSED.  I’VE TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE MANY TIMES.  I FINALLY ACCEPTED MY CONDITION  JUST LAST YEAR, AND AM COPING ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS.  I HAVE 2 CHILDREN ONE 10 AND ONE 4.  MY HUSBAND IS THERE BUT DOESN’T UNDERSTAND OR EVEN TRY. I HOPE I CAN FIND SUPPORT AND UNDERSTANDING FROM THIS GROUP. SUSAN DEMELLO CALIFORNIA

Susan, you’ve come  the right place. I have never fnd a more supportive group than here. We are here to help everyone, but in doing so, we help ourselves. I think you’ll find a very helpful loving group right here.                                                 Cyberhugs,                                                         Cyd  :) ~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    `~-._|            I love being alive     `   ~ )           and I will be the best man I possibly can.       –  //            I will take love wherever I find it   ,,.–(_ ("""^==–*    and offer it to everybody who will take it.  ;;( ,___, ,/~;        Seek knowledge from those who are wiser ;’ )/

/  ’–,           and teach those who wish to learn from me.

   | `   |"                                            -Unknown ~~ "   "  " ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~         c…@eden.rutgers.edu    c…@rci.rutgers.edu     c…@pilot.njin.net

Response:

Hi there, This is the first time I have posted anything anywhere on the ‘net and I am not sure that it will work. I was diagnosed as having MS about 15 months ago and have not joined any support group before now. I have found some of the postings both supportive and informative. Thanks to all in the group. Chris

Response:

Linda Landre <linda_lan…@bendnet.com

wrote: I’m trying to learn how to post to the newsgroup.   Hope it works this time.

linda, it worked!  are you surprised??  welcome aboard! peggy

Response:

In article <4e6knd$…@news0.rain.rg.net

,

   Linda Landre <linda_lan…@bendnet.com

wrote: I’m trying to learn how to post to the newsgroup.   Hope it works this time.

You did something right this time.  Welcome! Lois.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

In article <7uk95k$t7…@news.hitter.net

, "Marianne" <major1nos…@hitter.net

writes:

The doctor has the wait and see attitude for good reason.  My mom had a serious attack (hospitalized & diagnosed) and didn’t have a second for 10 years!  My MS, unfortunately, was rapid progression.  I wish you well. Marianne

How rapidlydid yours progress? I am PPMS, diagnosed in 93 but had it 20 yrs before that  I’m in a w/c 75% of the time right now. Bummer. Major bummer. Kathi

Response:

In article <19991020133836.27098.00000…@ng-cr1.aol.com

,

flowofs…@aol.compote (Keith Snyder) writes:

I do intend to ask my neurologist more about her decision not to start drug treatment, but my understanding so far is that she just doesn’t want to begin what would be a lifetime course of injection if it’s not unambiguously necessary.

If you have ms, it is not ambiguous and your doctor is way behind the times. Get a second opinion. Please do not wait until it is too late. Kathi

Response:

Thanks again for the welcomes and the advice.  I’ll be speaking to my doctor soon about why she’s not putting me on ABC drugs. Thanks, Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Response:

How rapidlydid yours progress? I am PPMS, diagnosed in 93 but had it 20 yrs before that  I’m in a w/c 75% of the time right now. Bummer. Major bummer. Kathi

My first symptoms (optic neuritis & numbness) 1989.  Diagnosed after leg weakness so severe I used crutches, 1991.  1992 Canadian Crutches, PT Wheelchair, hand breaks in the car, Stiffness and Balance problems. 1993 Wheelchair (total paralysis in legs), Rigidity and Tremors. 1999 Assisted Slide Board transfers Wheelchair to Hospital Bed.  Trunk involvement, hand tingling & closing, arms weakening, Shallow Breathing. Very Progressive (No Remissions), but I can still think, speak, and contribute valuable input in my 13 year old daughter’s life while she helps keep me at home. Marianne

Response:

Hello Keith, I’m new to this too but I recently read a health letter by the Mayo Clinic and they said "Scientists now understand that even when MS seems to be in remission, it may be silently attacking the central nervous system. For this reason, physicians are initiating treatment for MS at an earlier stage than in the past. Best wishes Frank

Response:

I’ve been lurking for about a day and figured I’d say hello. I was hospitalized with double vision a week and a half ago after my flu symptoms escalated, and came out with an MS diagnosis.  Lesions on the MRI, positive oligoclonal banding test.  No insurance, of course — I’ve always been healthy, and I’m a starving artist.  The hospital bill will total more than last year’s gross income. My symptoms are gradually getting better, and I’m obviously in better shape than a lot of the people whose posts I’ve been reading here.  (And pretty lucky that my diagnosis took about three days, total, as opposed to the many years of frustration I’ve been reading about.  I got lucky in wandering into an ER at a hospital with an MS center.)  The neurologist wants to keep me off the ABC drugs until I have a second episode, but I’m not quite clear on why that is. Anyway, hello, nice to meet you.  I don’t think I have much to contribute here yet, but I wanted to say hello. Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Response:

Hello Keith- The doctor has the wait and see attitude for good reason.  My mom had a serious attack (hospitalized & diagnosed) and didn’t have a second for 10 years!  My MS, unfortunately, was rapid progression.  I wish you well. Marianne Keith Snyder wrote in message <…

My symptoms are gradually getting better, and I’m obviously in better shape than a lot of the people whose posts I’ve been reading here.  (And pretty

lucky

that my diagnosis took about three days, total, as opposed to the many

years of

frustration I’ve been reading about.  I got lucky in wandering into an ER

at a

hospital with an MS center.)  The neurologist wants to keep me off the ABC drugs until I have a second episode, but I’m not quite clear on why that

is.

Response:

Hi Keith! <<  The neurologist wants to keep me off the ABC drugs until I have a second episode, but I’m not quite clear on why that is.

Get another opinion on this!  The general consensus on the ABC drugs is: start as soon as you are diagnosed.  Why wait to get worse? Sorry you have joined us, but welcome to the group!  Let us know how you are doing! Sylvia

Response:

Welcome (unfortunately). I was recently DX in Aug.  This was my 4th episode in 10 years and have just started on Avonex.  I too have been lurking around in this newgroup and am just starting to contribute (although I feel I am receiving more info than I’m giving). SB

Response:

Hi Keith! Well, as you can see, the concensus about starting one of the ABC’s is divided! Most likely the reason yer neuro wants to wait until you have a 2nd attack before starting one of these is because, the general "standard" for positively dx-ing MS is, 2 seperate attacks of differing symptoms. Having said that, I know someone who had their first attack in 1987, was dx’d right away, & hasn’t had an attack since! Sucks to have to be here, but welcome! Lin  ~~ If you can’t be nice, at least have the decency to be vague ~~

Response:

Thanks for the warm welcomes.  My vision is finally to where I can start researching this stuff, so I’m reading web sites, newsgroups, and whatever I can find.   I do intend to ask my neurologist more about her decision not to start drug treatment, but my understanding so far is that she just doesn’t want to begin what would be a lifetime course of injection if it’s not unambiguously necessary. Anyway, nice to meet you all. Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Response:

Hi all I have been wondering around and this seems to be a comfortable place. This is an unfortunate Dx. But if I had the opportunity to be able to start from the beginning. I would start eating a low fat no fat diat. the (Shank diet ) stanleystone Keith Snyder wrote in message

<19991020133836.27098.00000…@ng-cr1.aol.com

…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Thanks for the warm welcomes.  My vision is finally to where I can start researching this stuff, so I’m reading web sites, newsgroups, and whatever

I

can find. I do intend to ask my neurologist more about her decision not to start drug treatment, but my understanding so far is that she just doesn’t want to

begin

what would be a lifetime course of injection if it’s not unambiguously necessary. Anyway, nice to meet you all. Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Response:

<< if I had the opportunity to be able to start from the beginning. I would start eating a low fat no fat diat

I’ve actually been on Atkins, or at least something like it, for several months.  My family has an inherited blood sugar thing (we just call it "the curse"), and low-carb eating, along with a little exercise, helps keep my mind from fogging.  I’d hope I could continue to eat this way.  Why do you recommend low-fat for MS? Thanks, Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Response:

Hi Keith, sorry you have to be here, but it’s a great place,  Very knowledgable, sharing and supportiive people. I’m new too.

Response:

Hello Keith…..Welcome and have fun here. Let your hair done and say whatever you want. It is extremely scary to know you have this stuff and even more so if you dont have someone to listen to you.  Everybody hear listens to everybody.  I for one just respond to the ones I can relate to and I am sure you will get the hang of it real quick.  You are quite lucky you got diagnosed so soon.  You have no idea how much stress you go through with that waiting game.  As far as you next episode,  I dont think they can predict those.  I know mine didnt match up with others and different things happen to different people.  You will find all the support you need here… Stick around

Response:

Hi Keith, Welcome to the group, you have discovered the most wonderful bunch of people.  No matter what you need, question or want to share you are accepted.  While it sucks that ms is a common thread joining us it is also something that brought everyone together. Laura Keith Snyder <flowofs…@aol.communist

wrote in article

<19991020095537.27084.00000…@ng-cr1.aol.com

…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’ve been lurking for about a day and figured I’d say hello. I was hospitalized with double vision a week and a half ago after my flu symptoms escalated, and came out with an MS diagnosis.  Lesions on the

MRI,

positive oligoclonal banding test.  No insurance, of course — I’ve

always been

healthy, and I’m a starving artist.  The hospital bill will total more

than

last year’s gross income. My symptoms are gradually getting better, and I’m obviously in better

shape

than a lot of the people whose posts I’ve been reading here.  (And pretty

lucky

that my diagnosis took about three days, total, as opposed to the many

years of

frustration I’ve been reading about.  I got lucky in wandering into an ER

at a

hospital with an MS center.)  The neurologist wants to keep me off the

ABC

drugs until I have a second episode, but I’m not quite clear on why that

is.

Anyway, hello, nice to meet you.  I don’t think I have much to contribute

here

yet, but I wanted to say hello. Keith http://www.woollymammoth.com/keith

Response:

My Name is Moishe Pipik & I come from Palestine My mother brought me up on ManIScHewitz Kosher Wine

Response:

At 04:36 PM 3/23/96 -0500, you wrote:

My Name is Moishe Pipik & I come from Palestine My mother brought me up on ManIScHewitz Kosher Wine

Moishe,    Welcome to the group. It is nice to have you here. I hope you will tell us a bit more about yourself. I hope we can help you here and that you will feeel free to ask questions and offer help to others when you wish to. I will look forward to seeing you here again. Take care.                                 CL Spuhler                            _________________________                           |  ~    ^ ^               | Cheryl and Dana Spuhler   |  ~   ()()      /(       | spuh…@bright.net        |  ~  / /  |    /  (      | Beware of Dragon          |   ~00/ | |___/    (     |                           |    ^^  |           (    |                           |____________________(___|

Response:

My Name is Moishe Pipik & I come from Palestine My mother brought me up on ManIScHewitz Kosher Wine

 Hello Moishe,  Welcome to the group. My name is Fernando and I live in Tarragona (Spain).  I’m married with 2 sons. Since 10 years ago I have MS.  If you like, tell me about yourself. My best wishes from Spain                                         Fernando                                     f…@tinet.fut.es

Response:

     WELCOME CHRIS!      Look forward to hearing from you!      <C

     Christine ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Hello Author:  Multiple Sclerosis Discussion/Support <MSLIS…@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL

at umkc-smtpgate

Date:    1/30/96 4:12 PM Hi there, This is the first time I have posted anything anywhere on the ‘net and I am not sure that it will work. I was diagnosed as having MS about 15 months ago and have not joined any support group before now. I have found some of the postings both supportive and informative. Thanks to all in the group. Chris

Response:

At 01:00 AM 1/25/96 GMT, Linda Landre wrote:

I’m trying to learn how to post to the newsgroup. Hope it works this time.

Guess What Linda, it worked! I’ve been off the group, or at least hanging low due to illness and I will assume that you are fairly new to the group.  Welcome, and hope you get something from this forum. Gary Stone gst…@genesee.freenet.org

Response:

I’m trying to learn how to post to the newsgroup. Hope it works this time.

Hi Linda, I can certainly identify with "trying to learn". It worked – Welcome Aboard!

Response:

I’m trying to learn how to post to the newsgroup. Hope it works this time. Hi!

It worked. Take it from someone who has problems connecting sometimes,just keep posting away. Welcome. Karen in Alaska

Response:

Hooray Linda! It worked and welcome. Strawberries, Watermelon & Lollipops (and hugs, smiles and sunshine) Eric Eric Weinberg a0020…@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Linda Landre wrote:

I’m trying to learn how to post to the newsgroup. Hope it works this time.

Response:

"Gary L. Stone" <gst…@GENESEE.FREENET.ORG

wrote: I’ve been off the group, or at least hanging low due to illness and I will assume that you are fairly new to the group.  Welcome, and hope you get something from this forum. Gary Stone

gar, i do hope you are feeling better!  miss ya! peggy

Response:

At 09:44 PM 1/23/96 GMT, you wrote:

Hi there, This is the first time I have posted anything anywhere on the ‘net and I am not sure that it will work. I was diagnosed as having MS about 15 months ago and have not joined any support group before now. I have found some of the postings both supportive and informative. Thanks to all in the group. Chris

Chris,    I hope you stay with us and post more often now that you have started. Welcome to the group. I am glad that you have found both support and information here. Please fell free to ask questions or offer some support yourself. Take care.                                         CL Spuhler                            _________________________                           |  ~    ^ ^               | Cheryl and Dana Spuhler   |  ~   ()()      /(       | spuh…@bright.net        |  ~  / /  |    /  (      | Beware of Dragons         |   ~00/ | |___/    (     |                           |    ^^  |           (    |                           |____________________(___|

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Subject: Hello From: "[ Doc Jeff ]" m…@privacy.net Date: 9/18/2004 7:57 PM Mountain Daylight Time Message-id: <Xns9568C0B4222A64…@127.0.0.1 I worry about how tired she is even after doing mundane things like bringing in groceries.

Multiple sclerosis has been genetically linked to iron excess. Iron overload has been shown to cause extreme fatigue . Iron has been hypothesized to be involved in multiple sclerosis. Cites for all of the above .. Duck because this thread is about to be attacked .. Who loves ya. Tom Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Response:

In <news:20040918223020.08241.00000696@mb-m10.aol.com

,

doe said:

Duck because this thread is about to be attacked ..

It wouldn’t be attacked if you’d just keep your fat, fatuous, flatulent ass the hell out of it.

Response:

ON 9/18/04 8:57 PM [    Doc Jeff    ] actually said this about that ;

The lady with whom I am in love has MS. I’ve read much about it and how it works. I even listened to some online lectures about it to help educate myself. Is there anything I should pay particular attention to? Any advice from other guys who are in love with a woman with MS? (or women who are in love with a guy who has it) I worry about how tired she is even after doing mundane things like bringing in groceries. Any comments are appreciated (other than more of the political stuff which bores me to death)  :)

Bring chocolates.  Learn massage.  Practice listening. (Just relax.  Everybody has something.) Lo Oh!  Remember to tip your server.  

Response:

Subject: Re: Hello From: "Michael" muirh…@haidagwaii.net Date: 9/18/2004 8:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time Message-id: <2r4a67F153rq…@uni-berlin.de In <news:20040918223020.08241.00000696@mb-m10.aol.com, doe said: Duck because this thread is about to be attacked .. It wouldn’t be attacked if you’d just keep your fat, fatuous, flatulent ass the hell out of it.

Very nice .. You must be able to cure yourself with your .. command .. of the English language .. eh .. ? Oh .. yeah .. that’s right .. You .. can’t .. —————————————————– Iron in multiple sclerosis .. Read and absorb .. http://tinyurl.com/3w584 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

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<chuckling

does joan know you’re telling us about her encounters? three a month eh. rofl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jim Carter wrote:

on 19 Sep 2004 01:57:07 GMT, "[    Doc Jeff    ]" <m…@privacy.net wrote in alt.support.mult-sclerosis: I worry about how tired she is even after doing mundane things like bringing in groceries. My wife and I both had MS when we were married 3 1/2 years ago.  I do not get the MS fatigue.  Drugs called Amantadine and Evening Primrose Oil reduce Joan’s encounters to about three times per month.

Response:

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:57:04 +1000, jils <j…@spambegone.net.au

wrote in

alt.support.mult-sclerosis:

<chuckling does joan know you’re telling us about her encounters? three a month eh. rofl

Each encounter lasts about 10 days.  February is hell. — Spelling and grammatical errors are deliberate to catch copyright violators.

Question:

This fall my wife and I spent 6 weeks traveling the New England states and Canada, including New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.  We used two time share trades to stay in New Hampshire and Vermont during the fall color season.  This was one of our best trips ever since we are both retired and can take it easy.  We did a lot of antique shopping. Colorado doesn’t have the good stuff you find in the east, especially tools.  I had researched a little for likely sources, but found that asking for the antique guides given out at better shops in each state gave us a good idea of where to go.  My daughter and daughter-in-law had hinted about a few items they might like for Christmas.  The Dodge caravan was full when we returned to Colorado. I had very good luck finding a bunch of refurbishable Stanley tools. I will post some photos on my web site when I finish tuning and cleaning these tools. Two of the best sites were the Tool Barn outside of Bar Harbor, Maine, and Margaret Scott Carter’s store in Portsmouth, NH.  Both had some great user grade tools, and locked cabinets with the really collectable stuff.  Every time I admired something special, my wife would wave the hand which sports the diamond and emerald ring I bought her for our 40th anniversary, and encourage me to buy it.  I would always reply — "I’m a user, not a collector." I could not believe my eyes when I spotted the Norris A5 (coffin shaped) infill plane at Margaret Carter’s shop on the water front in Portsmouth.  She travels to England twice a year and occasionally locates one to bring back.  She asked me if I would like to examine the Norris — I stammered "Oh no, I could never buy something that fine", but admitted that I would love to examine the famous adjusting mechanism. The plane had obviously been refurbished by an expert, the closed handle beech infill used by Norris on post war planes had been re-lacquered and all steel was clean and bright with only very minor pitting.  The base was perfectly flat and the mouth in good condition. The plane iron was an original Norris with about an inch of good steel left, and the bevel in great condition with only a final honing required.  The patented Norris adjusting mechanism was perfect.  When we left Portsmouth my wife was still trying to talk me into going back and buying the plane. Yesterday we had our family Christmas get-together.  It is a special time when our married children come to our house and we open gifts for the grandchildren — five of them under the age of 8.  There are gifts for the grownups, but Christmas is for the kids, and what a fun time it is!  After all the gifts were opened and the kids busy playing with new toys, my wife said there is one more gift for grandpa.  Inside the box, carefully wrapped in bubble pack was the Norris infill smoothing plane.  My wife and my two children had bought me the plane I had admired for Christmas. — Ken Vaughn Visit my workshop: http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65/

Response:

Congratulations Ken, on both a great plane and a wonderful wife and kids that understand the delight we get in such things. Merry Christmas, Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This fall my wife and I spent 6 weeks traveling the New England states and Canada, including New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.  We used two time share trades to stay in New Hampshire and Vermont during the fall color season.  This was one of our best trips ever since we are both retired and can take it easy.  We did a lot of antique shopping. Colorado doesn’t have the good stuff you find in the east, especially tools.  I had researched a little for likely sources, but found that asking for the antique guides given out at better shops in each state gave us a good idea of where to go.  My daughter and daughter-in-law had hinted about a few items they might like for Christmas.  The Dodge caravan was full when we returned to Colorado. I had very good luck finding a bunch of refurbishable Stanley tools. I will post some photos on my web site when I finish tuning and cleaning these tools. Two of the best sites were the Tool Barn outside of Bar Harbor, Maine, and Margaret Scott Carter’s store in Portsmouth, NH.  Both had some great user grade tools, and locked cabinets with the really collectable stuff.  Every time I admired something special, my wife would wave the hand which sports the diamond and emerald ring I bought her for our 40th anniversary, and encourage me to buy it.  I would always reply — "I’m a user, not a collector." I could not believe my eyes when I spotted the Norris A5 (coffin shaped) infill plane at Margaret Carter’s shop on the water front in Portsmouth.  She travels to England twice a year and occasionally locates one to bring back.  She asked me if I would like to examine the Norris — I stammered "Oh no, I could never buy something that fine", but admitted that I would love to examine the famous adjusting mechanism. The plane had obviously been refurbished by an expert, the closed handle beech infill used by Norris on post war planes had been re-lacquered and all steel was clean and bright with only very minor pitting.  The base was perfectly flat and the mouth in good condition. The plane iron was an original Norris with about an inch of good steel left, and the bevel in great condition with only a final honing required.  The patented Norris adjusting mechanism was perfect.  When we left Portsmouth my wife was still trying to talk me into going back and buying the plane. Yesterday we had our family Christmas get-together.  It is a special time when our married children come to our house and we open gifts for the grandchildren — five of them under the age of 8.  There are gifts for the grownups, but Christmas is for the kids, and what a fun time it is!  After all the gifts were opened and the kids busy playing with new toys, my wife said there is one more gift for grandpa.  Inside the box, carefully wrapped in bubble pack was the Norris infill smoothing plane.  My wife and my two children had bought me the plane I had admired for Christmas. — Ken Vaughn Visit my workshop: http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65/

Response:

Congratulations Ken, on both a great plane and a wonderful wife and kids that understand the delight we get in such things. Merry Christmas, Larry

It couldn’t be said better. Me too Lyn

Response:

Yesterday we had our family Christmas get-together.  It is a special time when our married children come to our house and we open gifts for the grandchildren — five of them under the age of 8.  There are gifts for the grownups, but Christmas is for the kids, and what a fun time it is!  After all the gifts were opened and the kids busy playing with new toys, my wife said there is one more gift for grandpa.  Inside the box, carefully wrapped in bubble pack was the Norris infill smoothing plane.  My wife and my two children had bought me the plane I had admired for Christmas.

Thou sucketh, bigtime. Have fun with it. Cheers, seasonally adjusted. Saaaaay, if they bought that for you, maybe you’d like some land, too. : http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=531544648 is a real interesting proposition.                 Gator: The other white meat!  http://www.diversify.com  Comprehensive Website Development

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<sniperoo of deserved comments Saaaaay, if they bought that for you, maybe you’d like some land, too. : http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=531544648 is a real interesting proposition. LJ, you definitely have too much time on your hands. LOL!!!!!

I loved the guy’s email address "m-bezzler", too.                 Gator: The other white meat!  http://www.diversify.com  Comprehensive Website Development

Response:

locates one to bring back.  She asked me if I would like to examine the Norris — I stammered "Oh no, I could never buy something that fine", but admitted that I would love to examine the famous adjusting mechanism.

Fatal mistake!  That’s how those b……s get us to spend $$$ on these tools…      <G required.  The patented Norris adjusting mechanism was perfect.  When we left Portsmouth my wife was still trying to talk me into going back and buying the plane.

Can you get your wife to train mine?     ;-D new toys, my wife said there is one more gift for grandpa.  Inside the box, carefully wrapped in bubble pack was the Norris infill smoothing plane.  My wife and my two children had bought me the plane I had admired for Christmas.

You’re a very lucky fella, Ken.   And of course:    you SUCK!!!!!! Cheers Nuno Souto http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/the_Den/index.html

Response:

Good story, Ken, and a great gift!  Let us know when you have pictures of the Norris on your site. Phil — Living In The Woods of Beautiful Bonney Lake Washington Visit My Web Site www.madrona.bizhosting.com

This fall my wife and I spent 6 weeks traveling the New England states

<snip of a great story – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -After all the gifts were opened and the kids busy playing with new toys, my wife said there is one more gift for grandpa.  Inside the box, carefully wrapped in bubble pack was the Norris infill smoothing plane.  My wife and my two children had bought me the plane I had admired for Christmas. — Ken Vaughn Visit my workshop: http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65/

Response:

OK, Phil I was going to wait until I polished it up a little and gave it a protective coating The following pics cannot be reached via the website menu system, but here they are: The plane as seen from the side. http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65/norris_side.jpg A close-up of the adjusting mechanism — the bolt head which secures the cap iron to the plane iron is captured in the hollow cylinder which moves up or down and also pivots from side to side to square the iron to the mouth. http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65/norris_adj.jpg — Ken Vaughn Visit my workshop: http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good story, Ken, and a great gift!  Let us know when you have pictures of the Norris on your site. Phil — Living In The Woods of Beautiful Bonney Lake Washington Visit My Web Site www.madrona.bizhosting.com

Response:

WOW, Ken, that Norris is a beauty!  Polish it up and put it to work!  I bet you can’t wait. Phil

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, Phil I was going to wait until I polished it up a little and gave it a protective coating The following pics cannot be reached via the website menu system, but here they are: The plane as seen from the side. http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65/norris_side.jpg A close-up of the adjusting mechanism — the bolt head which secures the cap iron to the plane iron is captured in the hollow cylinder which moves up or down and also pivots from side to side to square the iron to the mouth. http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65/norris_adj.jpg — Ken Vaughn Visit my workshop: http://home.earthlink.net/~kvaughn65/ Good story, Ken, and a great gift!  Let us know when you have pictures of the Norris on your site. Phil — Living In The Woods of Beautiful Bonney Lake Washington Visit My Web Site www.madrona.bizhosting.com

Response:

Question:

Here’s the first one they pulled…actually, it’s not this exact auction, cuz it’s gone. But this is an identical auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=229442207 Ditto with this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=223393352 Show me keyword spamming. I assume they mean the words wicca and pagan. I did a search. There are literally over 1000 auctions with those exact And it did occur to me that someone in the newsgroup is doing something, even just lurking and fingering people, but I haven’t done anything to piss anyone off! I’ve always been nice and tried to be helpful. It did seem odd that I’ve been doing this exact same kind of listings for a year now and suddenly since I’m active in the NG eBay has hassled me twice. I don’t get it. Lisa

Response:

Here’s the first one they pulled…actually, it’s not this exact auction, cuz it’s gone. But this is an identical auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=229442207 Ditto with this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=223393352 Show me keyword spamming. I assume they mean the words wicca and pagan.

Why don’t the words "wicca" and "pagan" appear in the description itself? Seems to me you would have a better case if you call this a "wicca/pagan ring." ";-/

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: Lisa it isn’t Ebay,  there is a Gestapo at work in the newsgroup….. It IS eBay, they have complete control over what they remove.  Snitches can only suggest to eBay which items they should remove. Peter

Response:

This is why I don’t use our real ebay name here…a while back I used to, but funny things started happening with our auctions… Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I cannot believe they did this! They yanked one of my auctions WITH SEVERAL BIDS ON IT because of what they call "keyword spamming!" I have other items for sale right now with these same keywords, and no bids yet, but they yanked the one with bids! Let me state that I’ve been listing the same items on eBay for almost a year now, with the exact same titles. It seems odd to me that since I’ve started posting on this newsgroup I’ve had eBay f***ing with me twice now! I’m a model eBayer. I pay my fees, I ship my stuff, I get and give great feedback. Why are they messing with me, when there are people doing all kinds of horrendous stuff and getting away with it? What the hell is going on? Lisa it isn’t Ebay,  there is a Gestapo at work in the newsgroup….. For what reason I do not know, but check out how many posts you see with, I turned him in or I contacted Safe Harbor over silly shit that was none of their business. How do you think the kid got busted here? Just watch what you post I guess, it’s a damn shame as this group could really help each other……   <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<   Jack/Pittsburgh      Gambling and Travel Info   <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

Normally keyword spamming doesn’t bother me much, so long as it is done properly..  I buy a lot of WW2 prop aircraft stuff, and people put up:  ’ P-40 warhawk aircraft airplane’  …thats ok to me, but the ‘not this, not that’ BS gets me..One seller doesn’t even bother with the "not’s" anymore and would put up an auction as so: " P-40 Warhawk p-51, b-17, F4u" Lisa’s pagan/wicca doesn’t bother me, but then again, I don’t do searches for pagan/wicca stuff.. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Keyword spamming is a pet peeve of mine, it slows down searches, wastes my time, and makes the whole eBay experience less enjoyable for me (on those occasions that I encounter it).  For example, recently I was looking for an LL Bean item and encountered numerous auctions containing the words "not LL Bean", "not Orvis", " not Lands End", (all within the same auction!). Since I experienced the inconvenience of wading through those sites, it seemed appropriate to let those sellers deal with eBay to determine if they were in compliance with eBay rules. On the other hand, I don’t see anything in Lisa’s auctions that I consider to be blatant keyword spamming. Maybe I need to go back and read the eBay definition of keyword spamming to understand what is and is not included. I usually report keyword spamming  to eBay.    

Response:

Show me keyword spamming. I assume they mean the words wicca and pagan. I did a search. There are literally over 1000 auctions with those exact

Keyword spamming is using words that have nothing to do with the item being auctioned, like saying "Nike" when you’re selling Reeboks or saying "sex" just to get the hits. Using "wicca" and "pagan" to sell jewelry with a Wiccan/pagan symbol is clearly *not* keyword spamming, IMO. eBay seems to hire lots of clueless folks who can’t read or understand eBay’s own rules.  Then they give these clueless hires the authority to kill auctions.  If you appeal this, you’ll probably get an apology (not that that will do you any good). GK

Response:

If you appeal this, you’ll probably get an apology (not that that will do you any good). GK

I did write to them about it, but I have no idea how long it will take them to answer, if they even do. I do know that last week when I wrote to Amazon.com about their zShops I got an answer within 12 hours. Thanks for backing me up on this though. I honest to God don’t think I was keyword spamming. Lisa

Response:

Show me keyword spamming. I assume they mean the words wicca and pagan. I did a search. There are literally over 1000 auctions with those exact Keyword spamming is using words that have nothing to do with the item being auctioned, like saying "Nike" when you’re selling Reeboks or saying "sex" just to get the hits. Using "wicca" and "pagan" to sell jewelry with a Wiccan/pagan symbol is clearly *not* keyword spamming, IMO.

There is, however, a fundamental difference between (eg)    Emerald Ring wicca/pagan and    Emerald Wicca/Pagan Ring. I expect that eBay’s keyword-spam search is an automated gizmo.  The human then simply checks the auction’s title. Gotta love the english language! "PEOPLE BELOW DO NOT THROW ROCKS OVER CLIFF" … A sign in a park outside of Albany NY.  I always thought it was very nice of Park Services to inform us that the kind folks walking on the footpath along the bottom of the cliff won’t be throwing rocks at us. – Dan. | South Jersey, USA, Earth  <http://users.snip.net/~darmok |

Response:

I expect that eBay’s keyword-spam search is an automated gizmo.  The human then simply checks the auction’s title.

If it’s automated, it sure does a poor job. In eBay’s wording of keyword spamming example, they use "Beautiful Brand X boots – not Brand Z". Do a title search for the word "not" and you will see some prime examples of a direct violation of eBay’s example. I’m more likely to think that these are cases where items slip through the cracks unless someone gets peeved and complains because their search snagged one of these auction titles. – David –

Response:

I’m more likely to think that these are cases where items slip through the cracks unless someone gets peeved and complains because their search snagged one of these auction titles.

Could be. Someone pointed out to me last night that eBay is probably caught in a censorship trap.  ie, if you censor one auction you have to censor all.   That’s one of the defining points toward determining if you’re a "common carrier" or not.   ….Remember folx having to discuss Yabbo Cancer and Chicken Yabbo Recipes on AOL years ago, because their automated gizmo was censoring "breast".  AOL got nailed for that. And given the number of auctions starting per hour (math done in a previous thread), they’d have to hire a gigantic staff to censor.  So I guess its probably better if they just depend on us folx browsing to forward suspect auctions. I wish they would do some limited search and destroy tho.  It gets very tiring to grab a computer category listing and see a dozen+ get-right-quick schemes. – Dan. | South Jersey, USA, Earth  <http://users.snip.net/~darmok |

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I cannot believe they did this! They yanked one of my auctions WITH SEVERAL BIDS ON IT because of what they call "keyword spamming!" I have other items for sale right now with these same keywords, and no bids yet, but they yanked the one with bids! Let me state that I’ve been listing the same items on eBay for almost a year now, with the exact same titles. It seems odd to me that since I’ve started posting on this newsgroup I’ve had eBay f***ing with me twice now! I’m a model eBayer. I pay my fees, I ship my stuff, I get and give great feedback. Why are they messing with me, when there are people doing all kinds of horrendous stuff and getting away with it? What the hell is going on? Lisa user ID innersource — The Inner Source http://www.theinnersource.com Goddess, pentacle and wire-wrapped crystal jewelry, and Ritual  Wands

it. Maybe someone complained about the word "pagan"? I don’t know why cancelled your auction…….

Response:

it. Maybe someone complained about the word "pagan"? I don’t know why cancelled your auction…….

Could it be the ad at the bottom that lists the types of stuff you sell at The Inner Source? You have about half a dozen items listed not pertaining to the listing. Or is the Ad a JPEG? Just a thought. A Lurker

Response:

Could it be the ad at the bottom that lists the types of stuff you sell at The Inner Source? You have about half a dozen items listed not pertaining to the listing. Or is the Ad a JPEG?

That is a jpg file. I finally heard from eBay on the subject. It all basically comes down to semantics, believe it or not. Here is an excerpt from their letter: "Keyword spamming is the use of unrelated keywords or keywords lists in order to gain search engine exposure such as the following: "Silver pentacle/pentagram ring – wicca pagan" "The same description in a grammatical description (such as "Silver wiccan pentacle /pentagram pagan ring") would be acceptable as long as it is related to the item as it would not include strings of keywords (albeit two words) employed to attract search engine traffic." So apparently the words are related to the item if they’re moved elsewhere in the title line. The exact same words, although still just as legitimate, are not considered related if they’re at the end. I thought "unrelated" would mean putting something like "Nike" or "Levis" in a listing like this, just to get people to land there. I think they are nitpicking to the nth degree, but I don’t make the rules. They never did answer why, out of all the auctions I had running with those exact keywords, they pulled the one with bids, OR why I was singled out of the over 2,000 other auctions using those exact words, in the same place in the title.

Response:

What is keyword spamming anyway? Before you buy.

Response:

From eBay’s Listing Policy page: "Key word spamming   Inclusion of unrelated key word terms used in effort to gain unfair exposure for seller’s listing. The seller will usually state in title; Beautiful Brand X boots – not Brand Z.   Policy: These types of listings are not permitted and will be ended. The insertion fee will be automatically credited for that listing." http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-list.html – David – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is keyword spamming anyway? Before you buy.

Response:

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I cannot believe they did this! They yanked one of my auctions WITH SEVERAL BIDS ON IT because of what they call "keyword spamming!" I have other items for sale right now with these same keywords, and no bids yet, but they yanked the one with bids! Let me state that I’ve been listing the same items on eBay for almost a year now, with the exact same titles. It seems odd to me that since I’ve started posting on this newsgroup I’ve had eBay f***ing with me twice now! I’m a model eBayer. I pay my fees, I ship my stuff, I get and give great feedback. Why are they messing with me, when there are people doing all kinds of horrendous stuff and getting away with it? What the hell is going on? Lisa user ID innersource — The Inner Source http://www.theinnersource.com Goddess, pentacle and wire-wrapped crystal jewelry, and Ritual  Wands

Response:

Lisa,  They are messing with people. I posted a couple times here and now they are messing with my account. They are saying I owe them $7.00 and some change from since Decembers billing. I have double checked and triple checked. I have done the math. Actually their figures are off and I can prove it. I PAID ( not credited ) over $180.00 in fees,  so far in January and my account is perfect. I have written them NUMEROUS times , with NO response. I have asked them to call me if there is still any problem. No phone call. I too am a good Ebayer with a perfect record. I guess I made a mistake being honest and straight forward in the survey they sent. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I cannot believe they did this! They yanked one of my auctions WITH SEVERAL BIDS ON IT because of what they call "keyword spamming!" I have other items for sale right now with these same keywords, and no bids yet, but they yanked the one with bids! Let me state that I’ve been listing the same items on eBay for almost a year now, with the exact same titles. It seems odd to me that since I’ve started posting on this newsgroup I’ve had eBay f***ing with me twice now! I’m a model eBayer. I pay my fees, I ship my stuff, I get and give great feedback. Why are they messing with me, when there are people doing all kinds of horrendous stuff and getting away with it? What the hell is going on? Lisa user ID innersource — The Inner Source http://www.theinnersource.com Goddess, pentacle and wire-wrapped crystal jewelry, and Ritual  Wands

Response:

From eBay’s Listing Policy page: "Key word spamming  Inclusion of unrelated key word terms used in effort to gain unfair exposure for seller’s listing. The seller will usually state in title; Beautiful Brand X boots – not Brand Z.  Policy: These types of listings are not permitted and will be ended. The insertion fee will be automatically credited for that listing."

I was glad to find this out.  It gets on my nerves.  Lets say I’m pushed for time and want to check out my favorite fountain pen.  I go to the page and if it’s Pelikan some ads will read.  "Crappy Pen – not Pelikan." Richard S remove van3 for email

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is there a completed auction you could give the item # of, so we could look at the completed one?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I cannot believe they did this! They yanked one of my auctions WITH SEVERAL BIDS ON IT because of what they call "keyword spamming!" I have other items for sale right now with these same keywords, and no bids yet, but they yanked the one with bids! Let me state that I’ve been listing the same items on eBay for almost a year now, with the exact same titles. It seems odd to me that since I’ve started posting on this newsgroup I’ve had eBay f***ing with me twice now! I’m a model eBayer. I pay my fees, I ship my stuff, I get and give great feedback. Why are they messing with me, when there are people doing all kinds of horrendous stuff and getting away with it? What the hell is going on? Lisa user ID innersource — The Inner Source http://www.theinnersource.com Goddess, pentacle and wire-wrapped crystal jewelry, and Ritual  Wands

Response:

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! I cannot believe they did this! They yanked one of my auctions WITH SEVERAL BIDS ON IT because of what they call "keyword spamming!" I have other items for sale right now with these same keywords, and no bids yet, but they yanked the one with bids! Let me state that I’ve been listing the same items on eBay for almost a year now, with the exact same titles. It seems odd to me that since I’ve started posting on this newsgroup I’ve had eBay f***ing with me twice now!

How about giving some more details?

Response:

Question:

A friend of mine knows a gentlemen (retired HS teacher) who shows the classic bipolar syndrome.  A number of weeks ago he signed(although he has no extra money) a purchase offer for a very expensive ocean home on the east coast.  He also  walked into a jewelry store in a tourist town and charged a $7000 emerald ring. Bills at his house have been piling up on his dining room table for months.At this stage he is very depressed and can’t deal with a single bill.  He has not submitted his income tax forms for three yeas and although he has received waivers they were due yesterday. The house is a complete wreck.  The puppy he bought does its business everywhere. He sits all day long. He stopped seeing his Psychiatrist as he says he cant afford it( although I retired from a comparable nearby school district and have good mental health coverage).  He cant even muster up the strength to call and find out about his coverage. My friend is trying to get this man to take his medicine.  He refuses as he says it causes sleeplessness, strange dreams and other similar side effects. Things are getting worse. What can my friend do to help this man.

Response:

A friend of mine knows a gentlemen (retired HS teacher) who shows the What can my friend do to help this man.

Probably not too much.  If you want , be a friend, and understand that he sees the world from a very, very different perspective. Arthur

Response:

    You have mentioned a lot of things but no mention of family.  Does he have grown children?  Is he recently (within 2-5 years) widowed?  *Recently* retired?  Situational depression can also cause bizarre behavior in an attempt to regain some sense of control when everything seems out of control.  Perhaps he feels that everyone is trying to take control of his life by telling him what to do.     As just a concerned friend the only thing you can really do is to be available and offer emotional support if he wants it. (He may not)  You mentioned a puppy……perhaps the gentleman feels that the doggie is his only friend right now…..and it gives him unconditional love. (strange behavior and all)     Just some thoughts….         Abby  :-) A friend of mine knows a gentlemen (retired HS teacher) who shows the classic bipolar syndrome.  A number of weeks ago he signed(although he has no extra money) a purchase offer for a very expensive ocean home on the east coast.  He also  walked into a jewelry store in a tourist town and charged a $7000 emerald ring. Bills at his house have been piling up on his dining room table for months.At this stage he is very depressed and can’t deal with a single bill.  He has not submitted his income tax forms for three yeas and although he has received waivers they were due yesterday. The house is a complete wreck.  The puppy he bought does its business everywhere. He sits all day long. He stopped seeing his Psychiatrist as he says he cant afford it( although I retired from a comparable nearby school district and have good mental health coverage).  He cant even muster up the strength to call and find out about his coverage. My friend is trying to get this man to take his medicine.  He refuses as he says it causes sleeplessness, strange dreams and other similar side effects. Things are getting worse. What can my friend do to help this man.

Response: