Question:

I do deserve better.  And I WILL find it.  Hopefully sooner than later! : ) I just hope people understand that just because I divorced my husband doesn’t mean I didn’t try.  I still believe in the "til death do us part thing".  Not all the people who initiate the divorce are homewreckers, didn’t try, lack committment, or did something "bad" in Gods eyes. Sometimes I do feel that people think I’m all of those things because I was the one who said it was over. Sorry, just a little sidenote that was on my mind today. Zimm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He hocked his ring DURING the marriage? Twice? Geez, what a low life. It sure doesn’t look like he had any idea what a loving commitment is. Well, now you know that you not only deserve better, you can hopefully one day find it. Sigh.  I took mine off the day I filed for divorce.  In my mind that was the day I divorced my husband, not six months later when the judge signed some papers. It made me very sad that it was over but then I remembered that my husband had hocked his ring twice during our marriage.  I realized then that it was just a piece of jewelery and it only had an emotional impact on me because I let it. Zimm Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul

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Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul

Even now, after all these years, once in a while I feel like something is missing on my ring finger.  It’s not a sadness though, just a strange thing I guess.

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If it doesn’t feel right Paul, perhaps you could wear it on your right hand for awhile.  Yes it felt odd to me, in fact I still have the indentions of 25 years on my finger.  Hang in there sweetie, it will get easier with time. Daisy Visit the ASD Who’s Who webpages at: http://www.geocities.com/asddaisy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul

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Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger.

This is my first visit to this NG.  I’ve spent hours this evening lurking and am starting to feel better already. Monday my wife told me I was getting a divorce (if she is – I am). Wednesday while attending my sons wrestling match I noticed she wasn’t wearing her rings anymore, that’s part of why I’m here.  Sorta makes a statement. Gary

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do deserve better.  And I WILL find it.  Hopefully sooner than later! : ) I just hope people understand that just because I divorced my husband doesn’t mean I didn’t try.  I still believe in the "til death do us part thing".  Not all the people who initiate the divorce are homewreckers, didn’t try, lack committment, or did something "bad" in Gods eyes. Sometimes I do feel that people think I’m all of those things because I was the one who said it was over. Sorry, just a little sidenote that was on my mind today. Zimm

Zimm,         I don’t know you, but I do understand your position. My husband ended our marriage but because we’ve talked a lot since our divorce, I understand him completely. Your words above are almost all of his, word for word.         Just thought I would let you know that some people do understand. Kim Kim

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I just hope people understand that just because I divorced my husband doesn’t mean I didn’t try.  I still believe in the "til death do us part thing".  Not all the people who initiate the divorce are homewreckers, didn’t try, lack committment, or did something "bad" in Gods eyes. Sometimes I do feel that people think I’m all of those things because I was the one who said it was over.

What she said! My STBX and I refused for a long time to talk about the "hippo in the living room." Now the hippo is dead. I happen to be the one who will admit that. It would be nice if my STBX would agree and help me haul out the dead hippo. But if she doesn’t/can’t/won’t, I’ll do it myself. In many eyes, that makes me look like the bad guy. Maybe someday she’ll think differently. Or they will. But I can’t think of anything else to do with a verifiably dead hippo. — "This is only temporary — unless it works!" — Red Green

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I recommend putting it in a safety deposit box – out of sight, out of mind. Michelle Before you buy.

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Symbolism cuts very deep indeed!  I took mine off the day I knew for certain it was over (which as it turns out was several months before the divorce.)  I had to keep reminding myself that it was OK not to wear it, because for better or for worse I was single again.  I had worn it throughout our trial separation and when that ended and I saw he wasn’t wearing his… my guess is that most people in his new life don’t know he was ever married in the first place. I wore it for less than 2 years in all so the "dent" faded pretty fast… I’ve finally stopped searching for it with my thumb.  I’ve been wearing another ring (no sentimental value, just something I liked) on the same hand but a different finger and that helped too. You will get used to it eventually… but the fact that it felt weird just means you’re normal.  :) Michelle Before you buy.

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I’ve found people to be much more understanding than I expected at first.  I wasn’t the one to say "it’s over", but I was the one to file, because ending the marriage legally was not of much significance to him.  I knew for sure it was over in May and filed in August;  I suspect that if I’d tried to wait it out I would still be married now.  Anyway, I’ve found that I sometimes get a little defensive, like I have to explain it away, because I filed – but hey, I don’t have to explain myself to anyone if I don’t want to.  And neither do you! Here’s to both of us finding better… Michelle Before you buy.

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He hocked his ring DURING the marriage? Twice? Geez, what a low life. It sure doesn’t look like he had any idea what a loving commitment is. Well, now you know that you not only deserve better, you can hopefully one day find it.

Sigh.  I took mine off the day I filed for divorce.  In my

mind that was the day I divorced my husband, not six months later when the judge signed some papers. It made me very sad that it was over but then I remembered that my husband had hocked his ring twice during our marriage.  I realized

then that it was just a piece of jewelery and it only had an emotional impact on

me because I let it. Zimm Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it

right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’

nowhere. Symbolism cuts – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul

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Sigh.  I took mine off the day I filed for divorce.  In my mind that was the day I divorced my husband, not six months later when the judge signed some papers. It made me very sad that it was over but then I remembered that my husband had hocked his ring twice during our marriage.  I realized then that it was just a piece of jewelery and it only had an emotional impact on me because I let it. Zimm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul

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I read all the responses and I have to say I am still wearing mine and my wife also took hers off ages ago.  She claimed that her fingers were too fat from her weight gain to wear them comfortably.  I suggested resizing, but she insisted she would lose weight instead.  Well we each lost a lot of weight and she was able to wear it again… to church and to the occasional event out, but rarely any other time.  It always made me feel odd that she didn’t feel a need to wear her rings when I always wore mine.  Well now I guess I know why… she was looking for a way out and found it in another man’s bed. I am still planning to wear it until the divorce is final ( found myself without it day. I felt panicked that I didn’t have it on when I realized I had forgotten to put it on in the morning) and then I am going to get it resized and possibly reworked a bit and wear it on my right hand.  It has a very nice diamond in it and I really love the look of the ring so will not consider burying it. It sure is a weird feeling at times though. Stuart

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul

Response:

Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul

most of the time i don’t even think about it.  the other day however, i happened to open the drawer and see it….i took it out, put it on, and cried for about 1/2 hr….won’t be doing that again anytime soon k Before you buy.

Response:

Ragman, I know exactly how you feel.  I took my engagement and wedding ring off a year after the split and even now, 4 years later it still feels a bit weird sometimes.  Also, I find myself hiding my left hand sometimes too, particularly when I;m with my children as I’m concerned that people will think that they are illegitimate because their mum is not wearing a wedding ring.  Does anyone else think about that?  Only a few months ago I dug my engagment ring out and now I wear it on my right hand as a dress ring.  I think that more than anything else, that symbolises to me that I have  moved on.  I still think of my exhusband a lot, but I think I miss the intimacy and exclusivity of marriage rather than him particularly.  I always thought that I’d be married forever and that our children would grow up in a happy home like I had.  His cheating and lying ended a dream and sometimes it’s hard not to reminise about what should have been. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul Yeah, it was a hard choice to make. I’ve gone back and forth putting my ring on and saying it will stay until the divorce is over, then taking it off again. Now I’ve left it put away for many months and don’t have any urge to put it back on. It now represents too much pain instead of the love that it was supposed to represent. I find it really funny though, and this tells you a lot about MY commitment, but you know how men are often portrayed as the ones who won’t wear a ring, or take it off when they are "out on the town", or try to hide the ring when someone pretty comes around. Well, while I was married I always made sure my left hand was prominently displayed. Everyone I came in contact with saw that ring – I was damn proud of it. Now that it is gone along with the marriage, I find myself hiding my left hand subconsciously. I notice when I talk to people, especially women, that my left hand always manages to find its way into a pocket. It should be the other way around, now I should be letting everyone see that I’m not "attached", but it just doesn’t work that way. I’d dispose of the ring except I’m saving it for a symbolic closure on this marriage once the final divorce is over. The day I receive the final papers I plan on having a private funeral where I bury things such as these and some other mementos. Seems very appropriate to me since the person that I loved no longer exists. Maybe some day I’ll find someone else that will put a ring on my finger that I’ll again be proud to display. Until then, when you see a skinny guy with his left hand in his pocket, (hopefully) around some nice lady – come say Hi!

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I hadn’t even considered having to do this yet! Thanks for one more thing to worry about Paul (how do you express sadness and humor at the same time here?) Do you have to take it off? Does it help the transition if you do it early or make it worse? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul

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What a beautiful thought, a funeral for a relationship.  Wow.  And I thought hocking the ring would be appropriate……hmmm…..someone suggested I save it to give to my daughter as it represents the union that produced her. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul Yeah, it was a hard choice to make. I’ve gone back and forth putting my ring on and saying it will stay until the divorce is over, then taking it off again. Now I’ve left it put away for many months and don’t have any urge to put it back on. It now represents too much pain instead of the love that it was supposed to represent. I find it really funny though, and this tells you a lot about MY commitment, but you know how men are often portrayed as the ones who won’t wear a ring, or take it off when they are "out on the town", or try to hide the ring when someone pretty comes around. Well, while I was married I always made sure my left hand was prominently displayed. Everyone I came in contact with saw that ring – I was damn proud of it. Now that it is gone along with the marriage, I find myself hiding my left hand subconsciously. I notice when I talk to people, especially women, that my left hand always manages to find its way into a pocket. It should be the other way around, now I should be letting everyone see that I’m not "attached", but it just doesn’t work that way. I’d dispose of the ring except I’m saving it for a symbolic closure on this marriage once the final divorce is over. The day I receive the final papers I plan on having a private funeral where I bury things such as these and some other mementos. Seems very appropriate to me since the person that I loved no longer exists. Maybe some day I’ll find someone else that will put a ring on my finger that I’ll again be proud to display. Until then, when you see a skinny guy with his left hand in his pocket, (hopefully) around some nice lady – come say Hi!

Response:

I had a problem in that all my jewellry was given to me by the estranged.  I wanted to keep my rings on till the divorce was final, but a close friend told me that since the bond it represented was broken that it really had no meaning.  On top of that, looking at it made me sad.  So I took them off.  Unfortunately, I also had to take off a "family" ring that has his stone in it.  That also made for painful moments as my youngest would ask "who" each stone was.  I may have them rework that ring into a birthstone for me and one of the kids and toss his ruby in the drink. My watch was the most painful thing.  I got it for my 2nd anniversary at a small shop in Offenburg Germany and it meant a lot to me.  Every time I would look at the time it hurt.  I had to take it off….all $500 of gold and Seiko machinery, and I bought a $30 Indiglo from Zellers.  I still wear the nice watch if I dress up, but the meaning is slowly fading and I think I’ll trade it in at a Cash Converters for one of a different style with no memories attached. Weird you can get used to….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul Yeah, it was a hard choice to make. I’ve gone back and forth putting my ring on and saying it will stay until the divorce is over, then taking it off again. Now I’ve left it put away for many months and don’t have any urge to put it back on. It now represents too much pain instead of the love that it was supposed to represent. I find it really funny though, and this tells you a lot about MY commitment, but you know how men are often portrayed as the ones who won’t wear a ring, or take it off when they are "out on the town", or try to hide the ring when someone pretty comes around. Well, while I was married I always made sure my left hand was prominently displayed. Everyone I came in contact with saw that ring – I was damn proud of it. Now that it is gone along with the marriage, I find myself hiding my left hand subconsciously. I notice when I talk to people, especially women, that my left hand always manages to find its way into a pocket. It should be the other way around, now I should be letting everyone see that I’m not "attached", but it just doesn’t work that way. I’d dispose of the ring except I’m saving it for a symbolic closure on this marriage once the final divorce is over. The day I receive the final papers I plan on having a private funeral where I bury things such as these and some other mementos. Seems very appropriate to me since the person that I loved no longer exists. Maybe some day I’ll find someone else that will put a ring on my finger that I’ll again be proud to display. Until then, when you see a skinny guy with his left hand in his pocket, (hopefully) around some nice lady – come say Hi!

Response:

Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting?

Yes, though I took mine off about two weeks after she left me.  She took hers off even before she left me.  The divorce won’t go through until next year some time, because of a one year waiting period for a no-fault divorce. I often reach down for the ring, only to be shocked that it is not there. PK

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Mine has been off for about 5 months now and I still find myself trying to adjust it with my thumb (my engagement ring would shift during the day)! Sometimes I look at my hand and don’t recognize it! We were married 14 years and I gave the rings back to him because I felt they symbolized a committment that he made to me that he was no longer willing to keep…so the rings had no "meaning" anymore. Sometimes, in spite of all my attempts to move through this, I hate what happened to my life. Sigh. Karin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Yes, though I took mine off about two weeks after she left me.  She took hers off even before she left me.  The divorce won’t go through until next year some time, because of a one year waiting period for a no-fault divorce. I often reach down for the ring, only to be shocked that it is not there. PK

– "Circumstances do not make a person, they reveal him or her." –Richard Carlson

Response:

Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul

Response:

Last night I took off my wedding ring for the first time since my wedding day. Now, my divorce is final in about 4 weeks BUT it felt soo strange to take that off my finger. Part of me wants to bung it right back on again (to feel safe) yet the rest of me knows that’s goin’ nowhere. Symbolism cuts real deep. Anyone else found this ’small act’ disproportionally upsetting? Paul

Yeah, it was a hard choice to make. I’ve gone back and forth putting my ring on and saying it will stay until the divorce is over, then taking it off again. Now I’ve left it put away for many months and don’t have any urge to put it back on. It now represents too much pain instead of the love that it was supposed to represent. I find it really funny though, and this tells you a lot about MY commitment, but you know how men are often portrayed as the ones who won’t wear a ring, or take it off when they are "out on the town", or try to hide the ring when someone pretty comes around. Well, while I was married I always made sure my left hand was prominently displayed. Everyone I came in contact with saw that ring – I was damn proud of it. Now that it is gone along with the marriage, I find myself hiding my left hand subconsciously. I notice when I talk to people, especially women, that my left hand always manages to find its way into a pocket. It should be the other way around, now I should be letting everyone see that I’m not "attached", but it just doesn’t work that way. I’d dispose of the ring except I’m saving it for a symbolic closure on this marriage once the final divorce is over. The day I receive the final papers I plan on having a private funeral where I bury things such as these and some other mementos. Seems very appropriate to me since the person that I loved no longer exists. Maybe some day I’ll find someone else that will put a ring on my finger that I’ll again be proud to display. Until then, when you see a skinny guy with his left hand in his pocket, (hopefully) around some nice lady – come say Hi!

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t remember feelings at that age.  No…not anger, not happiness, not fear….nada.  It was like life was a movie.  My mom would be very very angry and I would just look at her.  She would get frustrated because I wouldn’t react.  Isn’t this called affect blunting?  Later in years I do remember anger..  sudden rages without reason.  I would push kids down for the hell of it.  Then I would run off crying.  I guess the point of all this is… there were signs of abnormality at a real young age.  My family (brothers, sister in laws, neices)….they don’t believe I have a problem. Probably because I was able to go to college and become a nurse.  Guess it doesn’t matter what they think….. I know the truth.  And it is such a relief that I don’t have to carry that guilt for being different……and for being difficult as a child.   I did not choose to have this disorder. —   O  ooo   Cindy          O "Butterflies are free to fly….fly away…..bye bye"  –Elton John–

[previous posts snipped] I could have written this, Cindy, word for word, except that I went into a different career. Thanks for sharing. brownee

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Yes thats me also. It is still me. It will always be me. Till I die Even after because I want my ashes let go from the top of a mountain so I can finaly be set free The bunny is a funny mood

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thanks guys for reminding me of something i had totally forgotten about… numb numb numb or a little too much… oh well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can remember back…way back to when I was 4 or 5 years old.  I felt like an observer of life…..an outsider.  I felt nothing.  My parents noticed I was quite queer.  At Christmas while everyone was opening gifts and yelling, laughing and having a great time…I was quiet.  I would open the gifts and study them.  Not really saying a word or doing much.  Anyone have these experiences? —   O  ooo   Cindy          O "Butterflies are free to fly….fly away…..bye bye"  –Elton John– Cindy, you really struck a nerve here. I had to let this post sit until I was ready for it.  My experience along these lines was so dramatic that when I had children of my own, there simply were no birthday or religious celebrations. None. They were forbidden. I explained it that I refused to be held captive to the calendar, chosing to "celebrate" when the time was right instead, and it was only when I read this post that I realized what that meant — when I was manic. All the decades of being misdiagnosed. brownee

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I think I will join you Bunny, your ashes that is.. I guess that explains why I feel nothing when I am given a present..Like I remember past boyfriends or my husband now giving me flowers, you know a romantic gesture and I feel no jOy from recieving them.I feel NO joy that I have a friend, I have a husband, an engagement and wedding ring around my finger, a house..I do enjoy having a car though..I hate feeling stuck in the house, I like just going out for a drive to a town I have never been to, it is meditating for me or going to the movies.. If  I can stop one heart from breaking, I shall not live in vain, If I can ease one life the aching, or cool one pain, Or help one fainting robin, unto his next again, I shall not live in vain.–Emily Dickenson

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Cindy: Your posting re absence of moods or, feelings hit home with me as it did with others. As a child, I don’t recollect feeling a lot of emotions or feelings… to begin with, I was not allowed to cry or, be angry in front of my mother.  I quickly learned to "turn off" these feelings for many years. I have to give myself credit though since I could expose my feelings when I was outside of my home or, away from my parents…I learned that I could connect with others such as friends, teachers, etc…  I had a controlling mother with whom I never bonded with since she lost her mother at an early age.  However, I witnessed my mom having raging episodes and a suicide attempt… pretty confusing to a child. isn’t it? My emotions however, seemed to appear when I was in high school and university but, after I graduated and returned to my parents’ home and then, moved out on my own… my absence of feelings and moods reappeared .. this lasted for years until I started therapy.  My therapist however, moved too quickly for me,,, ie. anger release exercises, etc…I then had a manic episode which, led to psychosis…got misdiagnosed and was put on anti-psychotic meds. To be brief,,, I gradually got depressed, got hospitalized again a few years later…I then abruptly stopped the anti-depressants and had a hypomanic episode almost 3 years ago…I’ve been on valporate (epival) and, my moods have been stabilized somewhat. Recently, my mother had repeated raging episodes over a period of time… my father called me in to help however, I knew that she needed to be hospitalized… after calling the ambulance 3 times over a period of 6 days…, she was finally admitted to the hospital… coincidentally, she is on the same meds that I am on. At times though, I often still get an absence of feelings or, moods….I think it’s part of the bp disorder to a degree… perhaps, we might be overcoming stress or depression or, coming down from a high. Hope this helps. Maria

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I can remember back…way back to when I was 4 or 5 years old.  I felt like an observer of life…..an outsider.  I felt nothing.  My parents noticed I was quite queer.  At Christmas while everyone was opening gifts and yelling, laughing and having a great time…I was quiet.  I would open the gifts and study them.  Not really saying a word or doing much.  Anyone have these experiences? —   O  ooo   Cindy          O "Butterflies are free to fly….fly away…..bye bye"  –Elton John–

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You have described me. Infact when I was a teenager I felt so On the Outside Looking in at things and not getting the emotions that I tried to slice my wrist (tried pills too).  I ended up I couldn’t even do that right.  I cried and cried and blamed a birthmother I had never seen.  I figured she had given me this horrible disease. This numbed out——non feelings has followed me throughout my entire life.  I can actually sometimes see something violent and not have a normal reaction. Holidays—–when everyone is laughing and happy—-I wear this mask to hide the fact that I am cold. That is how I always thought of myself as being a very cold person. As I look back I realize I had a few strikes against me at birth——no bonding with anyone——and all the abuse I suffered.  I was probably born numb waiting for someone to bond with me and make me feel alive.  No one did. My birthmother and I met years ago— we are not in contact now——-she I believe is bipolar (gee like mother like daughter) or has some kind of mental disability. So here I am 35 years old and not knowing exactly what I am supposed to feel.. I understand.

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That would be a big "OH YEAH!" Not in a place to get into it right now but I can realate. I can remember back…way back to when I was 4 or 5 years old.  I felt like an observer of life…..an outsider.  I felt nothing.  My parents noticed I was quite queer.  At Christmas while everyone was opening gifts and yelling, laughing and having a great time…I was quiet.  I would open the gifts and study them.  Not really saying a word or doing much.  Anyone have these experiences? —   O  ooo   Cindy          O "Butterflies are free to fly….fly away…..bye bye"  –Elton John–

Still thinking of what to write here???? Feel free to email.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have described me. Infact when I was a teenager I felt so On the Outside Looking in at things and not getting the emotions that I tried to slice my wrist (tried pills too).  I ended up I couldn’t even do that right.  I cried and cried and blamed a birthmother I had never seen.  I figured she had given me this horrible disease. This numbed out——non feelings has followed me throughout my entire life.  I can actually sometimes see something violent and not have a normal reaction. Holidays—–when everyone is laughing and happy—-I wear this mask to hide the fact that I am cold. That is how I always thought of myself as being a very cold person. As I look back I realize I had a few strikes against me at birth——no bonding with anyone——and all the abuse I suffered.  I was probably born numb waiting for someone to bond with me and make me feel alive.  No one did. My birthmother and I met years ago— we are not in contact now——-she I believe is bipolar (gee like mother like daughter) or has some kind of mental disability. So here I am 35 years old and not knowing exactly what I am supposed to feel.. I understand.

BG: It is possible to learn to feel. I was asked, when ex and I were in a couples’ counseling group, how I felt about a certain subject.  I pondered it back and forth, and replied, well I guess I think blah, blah, blah.  The counselor said:  No, how do you FEEL. I said:  what do you mean? I TOLD you.  They said: No, how do you FEEL? How is your body REACTING?  It’s the first time I realized that you’re supposed to FEEL feelings.  I also realized that I didn’t; or I didn’t tie the two together. In hindsight, I remembered feelings until I was about 4.  Happiness when I got a certain doll for Christmas;  sadness when my dad wouldn’t let me use a fishing rod like the boys;  terror when he whipped us for misbehaving. But I clearly had that gummy, vaseline-covered view of the world from about age 7.  I doubt it’s coincidental that that’s when I heard my first voices and had out-of-body (?–hard to give a name to them) experiences. After the experience in the couples group (and our decision to split), the counselor suggested I do some work on/for myself and I agreed.  I learned (in a year-long psychoanalytic group) that by getting the stuffed-down, painful feelings of past losses, abuse and neglect out that the ‘feelings system’ could begin to function again.  I think it’s kinda like clearing a drain.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m still not perfect at this often falling back into old habits of avoiding painful feelings (and find it MUCH easier to *feel* when I’m manic), but I am doing better. I hope this gives you hope and incentive to ‘clear your drain’. — Kath From here on my branch I can choose to plunge or soar. I think I shall sit a while longer.

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I can remember back…way back to when I was 4 or 5 years old.  I felt like an observer of life…..an outsider.  I felt nothing.  My parents noticed I was quite queer.  At Christmas while everyone was opening gifts and yelling, laughing and having a great time…I was quiet.  I would open the gifts and study them.  Not really saying a word or doing much.  Anyone have these experiences? —   O  ooo   Cindy          O "Butterflies are free to fly….fly away…..bye bye"  –Elton John–

Cindy, you really struck a nerve here. I had to let this post sit until I was ready for it.  My experience along these lines was so dramatic that when I had children of my own, there simply were no birthday or religious celebrations. None. They were forbidden. I explained it that I refused to be held captive to the calendar, chosing to "celebrate" when the time was right instead, and it was only when I read this post that I realized what that meant — when I was manic. All the decades of being misdiagnosed. brownee

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I don’t remember feelings at that age.  No…not anger, not happiness, not fear….nada.  It was like life was a movie.  My mom would be very very angry and I would just look at her.  She would get frustrated because I wouldn’t react.  Isn’t this called affect blunting?  Later in years I do remember anger..  sudden rages without reason.  I would push kids down for the hell of it.  Then I would run off crying.  I guess the point of all this is… there were signs of abnormality at a real young age.  My family (brothers, sister in laws, neices)….they don’t believe I have a problem. Probably because I was able to go to college and become a nurse.  Guess it doesn’t matter what they think….. I know the truth.  And it is such a relief that I don’t have to carry that guilt for being different……and for being difficult as a child.   I did not choose to have this disorder. —   O  ooo   Cindy          O "Butterflies are free to fly….fly away…..bye bye"  –Elton John– – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have described me. Infact when I was a teenager I felt so On the Outside Looking in at things and not getting the emotions that I tried to slice my wrist (tried pills too).  I ended up I couldn’t even do that right.  I cried and cried and blamed a birthmother I had never seen.  I figured she had given me this horrible disease. This numbed out——non feelings has followed me throughout my entire life.  I can actually sometimes see something violent and not have a normal reaction. Holidays—–when everyone is laughing and happy—-I wear this mask to hide the fact that I am cold. That is how I always thought of myself as being a very cold person. As I look back I realize I had a few strikes against me at birth——no bonding with anyone——and all the abuse I suffered.  I was probably born numb waiting for someone to bond with me and make me feel alive.  No one did. My birthmother and I met years ago— we are not in contact now——-she I believe is bipolar (gee like mother like daughter) or has some kind of mental disability. So here I am 35 years old and not knowing exactly what I am supposed to feel.. I understand. BG: It is possible to learn to feel. I was asked, when ex and I were in a couples’ counseling group, how I felt about a certain subject.  I pondered it back and forth, and replied, well I guess I think blah, blah, blah.  The counselor said:  No, how do you FEEL. I said:  what do you mean? I TOLD you.  They said: No, how do you FEEL? How is your body REACTING?  It’s the first time I realized that you’re supposed to FEEL feelings.  I also realized that I didn’t; or I didn’t tie the two together. In hindsight, I remembered feelings until I was about 4.  Happiness when I got a certain doll for Christmas;  sadness when my dad wouldn’t let me use a fishing rod like the boys;  terror when he whipped us for misbehaving. But I clearly had that gummy, vaseline-covered view of the world from about age 7.  I doubt it’s coincidental that that’s when I heard my first voices and had out-of-body (?–hard to give a name to them) experiences. After the experience in the couples group (and our decision to split), the counselor suggested I do some work on/for myself and I agreed.  I learned (in a year-long psychoanalytic group) that by getting the stuffed-down, painful feelings of past losses, abuse and neglect out that the ‘feelings system’ could begin to function again.  I think it’s kinda like clearing a drain.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m still not perfect at this often falling back into old habits of avoiding painful feelings (and find it MUCH easier to *feel* when I’m manic), but I am doing better. I hope this gives you hope and incentive to ‘clear your drain’. — Kath From here on my branch I can choose to plunge or soar. I think I shall sit a while longer.

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Question:

*I am a male who is planning to *marry my sig other. * *Hi Bud-congratulations on your big decision.  My response to your post is *totally based on my experience so it will definetly help you to attain *others… * *My fiancee bought my ring without my knowledge and I totally appreciated it *because I like surprises and love his taste.  Take those two things into *consideration for starters.  Would she like the surprise?  Do you guys usually *agree on styles?  There are many different shapes/sizes (etc.) of rings so *think about it. Another voice from the void here… My fiance bought my ring alone, too. He knew I’d love the surprise, and he knew my taste in jewelry. He didn’t know my ring size, but they wouldn’t have had my size in stock anyway (8; pretty big). After the initial excitement of the proposal, one of the first things he said to me was "I checked with the jewelry store. There is no problem with getting it sized to fit you. Also, if you see anything you like better while we are there, I won’t be at all upset if you want to exchange the ring, they said that’s fine too." Of course, I *loved* the ring he chose, so I didn’t exchange it, but it was sweet that he said that, and that he checked with the store about it. -hillary, waiting to get her ring back from being sized! —  "So that’s 2 T-1s and a newsfeed….would you like clues with that?"  Net Access…The NSP for ISPs….The NOC that rocks around the clock.

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: what, if any is the difference between an engagement ring : and wedding ring : do you discuss/shop for rings with your future spouse or : just go & buy it : is there a general order of events that are considered : traditional? congrats on finding the right girl.  the difference between an engagement and wedding ring is very simple.  the engagment ring is given before the marriage, and the wedding rings are exchanged during the ceremony.  how you select the engagement ring is totally up to you. trey and i altered my promise ring he had given me earlier and it then became my engagement ring.  some guys like to shop for the ring themselves and make it a total surprise.  it’s up to you.  if you are unsure of her tastes in jewelry, you can perhaps browse jewelry stores with her, and get an indication of what she likes, diamonds, gemstones, sizes, type of metal, etc.  you can also propose before you have the ring and then go pick one out together afterwards, if you want it to be a total surprise, and have no clue what she wants. if she accepts, and i hope she will =), you can then start looking for wedding bands.  some engagement rings come as a "bridal set" which is just the engagement ring and wedding band that match.   trey and i picked out our wedding rings about a year ago.  we decided to do it together so we would each get rings that we liked.  his is a white/yellow gold combination, and i am getting two thin bands for my wedding ring.   hth amy — — Love is the voice under all silences, the hope which has no opposite in fear; the strength so strong mere force is feebleness; the truth more first than sun, more last than star.                                    -e.e. cummings

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what, if any is the difference between an engagement ring and wedding ring

Usually, the engagement ring is a solitaire ring — the type with one big center stone that sticks up from the ring part — with a diamond, or sometimes a different precious gem, given by the groom to the bride when he "pops the question" and worn by her immediately.  The wedding ring is a band without stones, or with smaller inset stones, exchanged during the wedding ceremony and not worn until after the wedding. Naturally, some people wear plain bands as engagement rings, some wear solitaires as wedding rings, and some choose non-traditional shapes for either.  People with Celtic heritage might choose a claddagh, for example, for either. The key difference is that the engagement ring sybolizes the engagement, and the wedding ring symbolizes the marriage.  :-) do you discuss/shop for rings with your future spouse or just go & buy it

This depends on your intended.  If you have absolutely no idea what she would prefer, you are in dangerous waters.  But most likely, you have an idea of (1) whether she likes surprises, and (2) what styles of jewelry she likes and wears. If she would consider it romantic and appropriate for you to just present her with THE ring, then you should do so.  Consult her mom or her sister or her best friend if you need female advice. If you’re pretty sure she would rather help you choose, you have a couple of options.   (1) You can propose without the ring — in which case, you can either give her something else as a "symbol" — one of those big plastic ones, for example, or a cheap simulated birthstone ring — and explain that you’d like to go shopping together for the "real" ring. (2) You can buy a ring you think she’d like from a store with a good selection, and tell her up front that your feelings will not be hurt if she would like to go and look at other styles. (3) Similar to (2), you can buy the diamond and have it set in a "temporary" plain tiffany setting, arranging for the jeweler to re-set it later in whatever she chooses. The advantage of (2) and (3) is it sets your budget in advance.  :-)  Option (3) works really well if you have an inherited stone you want to use and/or if you think she will want something unusual (meaning it’s better to go to a jewelry designer rather than a chain store). is there a general order of events that are considered traditional?

Generally you just spit it out.  :-)  If you’re tongue-tied, you can just get down on one knee and wordlessly hold out the ring box.  But if you’re good with words, tell her how much she means to you and that you want to marry her — will she marry you?  If she likes old-fashioned romantic touches, try "Would you do me the very great honor of becoming my wife?"  Hand over the ring either while you’re talking or as soon as she says yes. If you think she would want you to "ask her father for her hand", you do that just before you propose to her.  However, don’t do it unless you are absolutely sure she will think that’s a romantic gesture rather than an insulting indication that you don’t think she’s a grown woman who makes her own decisions, thank you very much. Skywriting or putting the ring in a glass of champagne or other theatrics are really not necessary.  But it could be nice to take her to the same place you went on your first date, for example, or just out to a really nice restaurant, to set the scene. Thanks from Oahu bud

You’re welcome, good luck, and hope we’ll see more of you soon! Holly (married Ken, 8/25/96)

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Well a number of people have weighed in on how nice it is to be surprised with a gift/engagement ring that has had a lot of thought put in to it, so while not disagreeing with that, I’ll weigh in on the other side. I dislike diamond engagment rings, partially because the industry pushes the product too much, but mostly because I’d almost rather have any other stone than a diamond.  I doubt my fiance would have known this, and even if he had looked through my jewelry box to guess at a ring size, I doubt he would have noticed the lack of diamond jewelry. (Nor would my mother have been able to advise him of this, for that matter, as she probably didn’t even know.)

There *is* a compromise position, if you can stand to be engaged without a ring for a bit. We got engaged in late December, and I didn’t see a ring until Valentine’s Day because I was adamant that I did *not* want a diamond, so Phil initially didn’t dare surprise me. Finally, he asked what sort of ring I would wear. I told him: no diamonds, setting must be flat so it can’t catch on things, broadest band he could find in a woman’s ring. He then surprised me by choosing the design and the stone (amethyst) based on what he thought I’d like. He also directly asked my ring size — since I didn’t wear rings, he had no way to guess. The merit of this plan was that I had no idea what the ring would actually be (nor did I have to worry about whether my preferences were too expensive), but I knew it would be within the range of what I find wearable. Since he was buying it right before Valentine’s Day, the jeweler was *determined* to sell him a heart-shaped stone. Ugh! Having good sense, he insisted on something a little more classic. He also refused to be bullied into buying a ring with the little diamond chips on either side of the main stone — he correctly took "no diamonds" literally. Guess I’d better have it resized for the other hand now — worn with the wedding ring, I end up with metal up to my knuckles! On our wedding day, I had to wear the engagement ring on the little finger of my right hand, which was not terribly comfortable. Wende

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Well a number of people have weighed in on how nice it is to be surprised with a gift/engagement ring that has had a lot of thought put in to it, so while not disagreeing with that, I’ll weigh in on the other side. I dislike diamond engagment rings, partially because the industry pushes the product too much, but mostly because I’d almost rather have any other stone than a diamond.  I doubt my fiance would have known this, and even if he had looked through my jewelry box to guess at a ring size, I doubt he would have noticed the lack of diamond jewelry. (Nor would my mother have been able to advise him of this, for that matter, as she probably didn’t even know.) So while I would have loved the time and sentiment that he would have put into finding a special ring and surprising me with it, I appreciated it so much more to have had him by my side when we picked out rings together.  In fact, I love my engagement ring so much – I’m taking it off the day of the wedding only to put it back on again when we exchange rings and will use it _alone_ as the wedding band. My 2 cents.  But the best advice I’ve seen so far was that you’ll have a better idea what the appropriate course of action is over anyone else here – we don’t know your s.o. – Donna (Oh, and the stone is a blue-sapphire, and at every store we went in to, the sales(wo)men felt compelled to tell us 2 things (a) sapphires stand for fidelity and (b) Ivana Trump and Lady Diana both had sapphire engagement rings.)

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You can pick it out yourself or pick it out together, but you are the only one that will know how SHE would want it.

Just an illustrative story: My husband had the diamond, which was inherited from his father’s grandmother, put in a "temporary" setting so that he could surprise me with a ring I could wear right away, but I could go back to the jeweler and choose my own "permanent" ring.  This was the absolutely right approach for me, as I would not have liked to just take whatever he got.  Not that he wouldn’t have been able to choose something I liked, but I just preferred to design my own, with his help.  He knew this, he did good. A friend of mine, OTOH, knew his intended would want him to just choose the ring, as part of the symbolism of him choosing her or whatever.  More romantic.  He knew her taste in jewelery.  He spent a lot of time prowling through antique stores (thinking the whole time, "I cannot believe I’m doing this," he said later) and bought an estate ring which she absolutely loved.  He did good. Another friend knew that her boyfriend was planning to "pop the question" soon, but she did want a romantic scene to "make it official".  They spent some time browsing in jewelry stores together, she pointing out rings she liked but both of them pretending it was just idle looking for no particular reason.  He bought a ring, he called her parents first, he took her to a really fancy restaurant, got down on one knee, entire schtick.  She loved it.  He did good. All three couples still happily married after varying lengths of time. Final story:  My sister-in-law was surprised with an engagement ring about eight months after they’d been dating.  Ken was visiting his family, called me and told me the news (I was floored), and we all went out to dinner that night with the groom’s family.  I jokingly asked Karen if she "had a rock" since she wasn’t doing the outthrust-left-hand thing.  She kind of flinched and said, "well, it’s a sapphire…." and showed it to me.  She went through worrywart hell for about a week, nerving up to ask her fiance whether he minded trading in the ring for a more traditional diamond.  Which he didn’t, and that’s what they did.  Now you have to understand that she likes sapphires, in general, and he knew this, but he had failed to pick up her traditional, high-society tendencies.  It was entirely obvious to *me* — and I am not THAT close to her — that Karen would want a very traditional, as-expensive-as-possible engagement ring.  But her fiance hadn’t even bothered to figure out ahead of time that his mom had this one-carat diamond that used to be her grandmother’s that she was willing to give him…. They’re divorced now.  I don’t know whether she gave him the diamond back or not, but of course she doesn’t wear it. Moral of the story:  There’s no one right way to choose an engagement ring, but there’s a wrong way.  Sometimes the success of your proposal method says something about the likely success of your marriage — because it reflects how in tune you are (or are not) with each other’s tastes and personalities. Now, surely someone is going to tell me about a couple with an engagement ring horror story who are nevertheless happily married and approching their fortieth anniversary.  :-) Holly

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  First off…congrats on the planning.  It’s a good thing to start planning early.   Now, speaking as one who is recently engaged himself.  Here’s my advice.   An engagement ring is designed to show the world that you have announced your intention to marry her.  It is more for show than anything else.  It can be simple or elaborate, it doesn’t really matter…what matters is the thought behind it.  Don’t let people pressure you into that $4000 diamond engagement ring if it really doesn’t work for you.  My phiance and I went ring shopping and I got her a beautiful heart-shaped ruby ring with several diamond flakes on the side.  It was inexpensive, but the thought was what made it special(And she LOVES rubies).   The wedding rings themselves are usually simple gold bands designed to signify the neverending Love the two of you have for each other.  Again, it doesn’t have to be expensive since it is a simple band.   As for wether or not to discuss getting the ring with her or not…that is totally up to you.  If you know her size and what she likes, you can surprise her.  If not, then you got your work cut out for you.  ;)   Good luck    Frank & Deb      05/30/99

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Joe bought my ring with out my knowledge.  Then asked my dad for my hand and proposed the next day.  I was completely shocked and I am very glad we had this "old fashioned" situation for some oddly romantic reason. . . Anyway, I live 350 miles from him *and* where he bought the ring.  The ring was size 7.  I wear a 4 1/2, so I was completely unable to wear the ring (even too big on my thumb).  He said he didn’t want it to be too small (I have a weight problem and I get depressed when clothes/jewerly are too small).  He had to take the ring back with him and have it sized then return it to me a month or so later.  If you want to supprise her, maybe you could do one of these: "Your hands are so slender.  I bet you wear a really small ring. . ."  Well, that sounds strange, but you get the idea.  Lisa Take time to laugh, for laughter is the music of the soul.

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Thanks in advance for help. I am a male who is planning to marry my sig other. Please bear with my ignorance, I am completely in the dark here. Can some tell me or point me in a good direction with regard to (the traditional ideas): what, if any is the difference between an engagement ring and wedding ring do you discuss/shop for rings with your future spouse or just go & buy it is there a general order of events that are considered traditional? Thanks from Oahu bud

Response:

I think everyone has pretty much covered everything except I’d like to add something.  You can pick it out yourself or pick it out together, but you are the only one that will know how SHE would want it.  Would she want to be surprised like the old-fashioned way, or would she rather choose the ring herself?  If you have a good idea of her tastes (which you should), then surprise her.  That is probably most women’s dream — a surprise proposal. The engagement ring is usually a diamond ring, but it doesn’t have to be.  The ring can also be gold or platinum or white gold.  If she wears mostly silver, you might want to consider platinum or white gold.  Some people don’t even do engagement rings.  The wedding ring is usually a gold band, but it can be anything you like.  The wedding band is not picked out until later (unless you purchase a set, which I don’t recommend)  I don’t recommend it because you don’t get a good quality diamond with them.  You can get better with a solitaire.  Got to a jewelry store that will help you.  They should tell you about the 4 charateristics of a diamond: color, clarity, cut, and carat weight. These all factor into the price and what the diamond looks like and how it catches the light.  After you are married, the woman wears the engagement ring and wedding band together (on her left ring finger). Good Luck!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks in advance for help. I am a male who is planning to marry my sig other. Please bear with my ignorance, I am completely in the dark here. Can some tell me or point me in a good direction with regard to (the traditional ideas): what, if any is the difference between an engagement ring and wedding ring do you discuss/shop for rings with your future spouse or just go & buy it is there a general order of events that are considered traditional? Thanks from Oahu bud

Response:

I am a male who is planning to marry my sig other.

Hi Bud-congratulations on your big decision.  My response to your post is totally based on my experience so it will definetly help you to attain others… My fiancee bought my ring without my knowledge and I totally appreciated it because I like surprises and love his taste.  Take those two things into consideration for starters.  Would she like the surprise?  Do you guys usually agree on styles?  There are many different shapes/sizes (etc.) of rings so think about it. Another thing that I find important is that you know your girlfriend is as ready as you are for this committment (ie. have you discussed marriage already). Whatever you decide-Good Luck and please share how it went:). Myrna 07/03/99

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Question:

TooFat 223/218/180 ECA Stacking since 5/18/98 Low Carbing since 6/2/98

Welcome to the lowcarb fold, TF.  Glad to have you aboard. — K in Cali Stackin’ Atkid Usenet is *not* part of the Hallmark Universe

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Hi TooFat, The ‘pubic package’ caught me off guard and got me laughing, but hey…

hehe…I had to phrase that just right. Your current weight is only 219 lbs.  I know we all gain fat in different ways, but unless you’re just under three feet you sound like you are supremely harder on yourself than any stranger could be.

I recently had some surgery.  I got a full length naked look at myself in the mirror and wanted to vomit.  I tried to hug my wife, and she looked down at my belly like "I can’t get past that." <g  My latest Body Fat % was 38%.  Time to take care of things!!!   When I lose a enough pounds to make a photographic difference, I’ll post up a web page with some then and now photos.   I know you didn’t ask for this and you’ve got a right to flame me out of the water, but by changing your nickname and email address away from a self-degrading image you may get faster success. I’ve done a similar thing by thinking myself worse than what others see.  It’s a worthless trap and doesn’t really give us a running chance.

Thanks for the pep talk.  I’m not in that trap yet.  TooFat’s just an alias to protect my privacy from some associates I’d rather not see my posts in this group. Thanks again…this group’s support is great (except when the ECA threads turn in to the flame-wars they always do <g). TooFat 223/218/180 ECA Stacking since 5/18/98 Low Carbing since 6/2/98

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I have noticed a ahem, "change" resulting from dropping 70 pounds, but it sure werent no 3.5 inches!  Certain positions now cause discomfort to my wife (and other positions are more enjoyable), but I attribute that to reduction of fat around the base, and less gut getting in the way, rather than to any increase in length.  However as I posted a while back, as a man, I am fortunate to have the one-eyed willie down there to be able to use as a "measuring stick" with which to gauge my weight loss progress.  I knew my diet was really working when I could look down and see the little guy without having to bend over and suck in my gut! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy JHard, A few years ago I heard that for every 20lb fat loss a man gains an extra inch in the nether region — that’s a better showing than your statistic. Thius could be scary.  If a man loses 300 pounds he will gain 10 inches??? I know that size is impoortant to a man, but somone 15 inches plus would not get anywhere near me.  Of course, if aroused, he wouldn’t be able to get anywhere near me:) — Claudia  (To e-mail remove potatoes from address) For Claudia’s Cooking Newsletter celebrating low-fat and sugar-free cooking and living check out: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/cookingnewsletter/

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Howdy JHard, A few years ago I heard that for every 20lb fat loss a man gains an extra inch in the nether region — that’s a better showing than your statistic.

Thius could be scary.  If a man loses 300 pounds he will gain 10 inches??? I know that size is impoortant to a man, but somone 15 inches plus would not get anywhere near me.  Of course, if aroused, he wouldn’t be able to get anywhere near me:) — Claudia  (To e-mail remove potatoes from address) For Claudia’s Cooking Newsletter celebrating low-fat and sugar-free cooking and living check out: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/cookingnewsletter/

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Howdy JHard, A few years ago I heard that for every 20lb fat loss a man gains an extra inch in the nether region — that’s a better showing than your statistic.

Not sure if this is true as I don’t really measure myself.  However, since losing 40+ pounds, my wife seems to be a little more amourous towards me.  Maybe it’s becuase I am now hung like a horse. Dallas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know about you, but I don’t even need to reach goal weight before I have a hard time picking it off the floor on the way out the door. Mike Read a article regarding penis enlargment.  The article argued that short of surgery the only way to add size to your penis was by losing 35lbs.  actually the size increase is more of a optical illusion since what is happening is that fat in the pubic region surrounding the penis is going away thus exposing more of what god had already provided.  The point of the article was to point out that the socalled penis enlargement products(pumps, creams etc) are basically frauds. Any men out there lose that type of weight and notice any size increase? Just curious Stuppy

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I like the idea of exchanging presents, however, I am not sure if it needs to be jewelry.  My hubby bought me a ton of jewelry when we first met.  As I did him.  I even bought him his own "engagement" ring.  Then I had my accident and our income went way down.  If he bought me jewelry now I would shoot him:) For his wedding present I got him the star trek 3-D chess set, but for the life of me I don’t know what he bought me!  So maybe it’s not as important:) — Claudia  (To e-mail remove potatoes from address) For Claudia’s Cooking Newsletter celebrating low-fat and sugar-free cooking and living check out: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/cookingnewsletter/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In all honesty, i read steve these post in this thread and he had a good laugh. Well boy wonder had lost 30 pounds, and quite frnakly as an unbias set of eyes, i have not noticed a difference.  After i read the thread, i intentionally went and checked it out.  No complaints mind you, but no change either.  Without getting too graphic I will say it feels longer, probably due to the fats pads shrinking.  Also as the fat pads shrink, i have noticed that we both are gaining flexibility, and stamina.  Steve is threating to buy one of those "the contortionist book of love" books for the honeymoon.  LOL, man I hope it is a joke. Last night he bought me another wedding book, and i read him the grooms checklist of things to do.  I though he was going to die when it came to the part where it said he had to buy me a wedding gift, and suggested gems, fine watches, etc, and specified this was in addition to the engagement and wedding ring.  He looked at me, and said you mean the 2 rings are not him to watch his eyes get wide, but now he insist.   I gotta say after he shells out for all the diamonds, this is one custom i find pretty laughable too. Well off with my little samuel for our am walk. Making it fun is half the battle, YMMV, Holly (atkins’ since 2/ 26/98, 11 inches down)

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In all honesty, i read steve these post in this thread and he had a good laugh.  Well boy wonder had lost 30 pounds, and quite frnakly as an unbias set of eyes, i have not noticed a difference.  After i read the thread, i intentionally went and checked it out.  No complaints mind you, but no change either.  Without getting too graphic I will say it feels longer, probably due to the fats pads shrinking.  Also as the fat pads shrink, i have noticed that we both are gaining flexibility, and stamina.  Steve is threating to buy one of those "the contortionist book of love" books for the honeymoon.  LOL, man  I hope it is a joke. Last night he bought me another wedding book, and i read him the grooms checklist of things to do.  I though he was going to die when it came to the part where it said he had to buy me a wedding gift, and suggested gems, fine watches, etc, and specified this was in addition to the engagement and wedding ring.  He looked at me, and said you mean the 2 rings are not to watch his eyes get wide, but now he insist.   I gotta say after he shells out for all the diamonds, this is one custom i find pretty laughable too.  Well off with my little samuel for our am walk. Making it fun is half the battle, YMMV, Holly (atkins’ since 2/ 26/98, 11 inches down)

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Hi TooFat, The ‘pubic package’ caught me off guard and got me laughing, but hey… Your current weight is only 219 lbs.  I know we all gain fat in different ways, but unless you’re just under three feet you sound like you are supremely harder on yourself than any stranger could be. I know you didn’t ask for this and you’ve got a right to flame me out of the water, but by changing your nickname and email address away from a self-degrading image you may get faster success. I’ve done a similar thing by thinking myself worse than what others see.  It’s a worthless trap and doesn’t really give us a running chance. Be well, Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -are now so fat that they actually thrust the whole pubic package forward and cause a much larger bulge in the crotch of my pants.  Go figure. <g TooFat 223/219/180 ECA Stacking since 5/18/98

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Read a article regarding penis enlargment.  The article argued that short of surgery the only way to add size to your penis was by losing 35lbs.  actually the size increase is more of a optical illusion since what is happening is that fat in the pubic region surrounding the penis is going away thus exposing more of what god had already provided.

Well, actually, I can state that the inverse is true! I’ve noticed that the fatter I get, the smaller my penis *looks,* whether erect or not WHEN I AM NAKED.  Seriously, just a few weeks ago, without having read this article you refer to, I came to the same conclusion:  my groin/abdomen had gotten so fat, that base of penis is now recessed behind a wall of fat on either side. <gross, huh? It gets even more bizarre…the fatter I’ve gotten, the *larger* my testicles and penis look WHEN I AM CLOTHED.  Turns out that my thighs are now so fat that they actually thrust the whole pubic package forward and cause a much larger bulge in the crotch of my pants.  Go figure. <g TooFat 223/219/180 ECA Stacking since 5/18/98

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Read a article regarding penis enlargment.  The article argued that short of surgery the only way to add size to your penis was by losing 35lbs.  actually the size increase is more of a optical illusion since what is happening is that fat in the pubic region surrounding the penis is going away thus exposing more of what god had already provided.  The point of the article was to point out that the socalled penis enlargement products(pumps, creams etc) are basically frauds. Any men out there lose that type of weight and notice any size increase?

I’ve heard testimony that this is true from someone who lost a great deal of weight. I took his word for it, didn’t inspect either before or after. There is a surgical technique that works though (besides the fat injection thing which mostly only adds girth). Apparently there i a ligament that holds the penis close to the body which can be cut. The penis "drops" somewhat and gets or appears somewhat longer. I think the best results are as a corrective measure when this ligament is shorter or tighter than normal and doesn’t do much when that’s not the case. I’ve also heard that mummies appear particularly "well hung" because this ligament is cut as part of the mummification routine. I think that was on an "in search of" or some such program so have your grain of salt handy. — http://www.panix.com/~ilaine 162/154/135 since 3/16/98

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first time reading this ng, and this is about the 10th that I read, LOL! Mary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I don’t know about you, but I don’t even need to reach goal weight before I have a hard time picking it off the floor on the way out the door. I found that if I wear those long shorts that basketball players wear I can wrap it around my leg and tie it off at the knee.  Much better then hauling it around on the floor:-) JHard

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ROTFLMAO! thanks for my tuesday morning smile! rosie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Damn! I thought I was the only one with that problem! I’ve lost 11.5 lbs. and I now need a step stool when I urinate…boy that water is cold! Gump I don’t know about you, but I don’t even need to reach goal weight before I have a hard time picking it off the floor on the way out the door. I found that if I wear those long shorts that basketball players wear I can wrap it around my leg and tie it off at the knee.  Much better then hauling it around on the floor:-) JHard

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I don’t know about you, but I don’t even need to reach goal weight before I have a hard time picking it off the floor on the way out the door.

I found that if I wear those long shorts that basketball players wear I can wrap it around my leg and tie it off at the knee.  Much better then hauling it around on the floor:-) JHard

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Damn! I thought I was the only one with that problem! I’ve lost 11.5 lbs. and I now need a step stool when I urinate…boy that water is cold! Gump

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I don’t know about you, but I don’t even need to reach goal weight before I have a hard time picking it off the floor on the way out the door. I found that if I wear those long shorts that basketball players wear I can wrap it around my leg and tie it off at the knee.  Much better then hauling it around on the floor:-) JHard

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Howdy JHard, A few years ago I heard that for every 20lb fat loss a man gains an extra inch in the nether region — that’s a better showing than your statistic. I don’t know about you, but I don’t even need to reach goal weight before I have a hard time picking it off the floor on the way out the door. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Read a article regarding penis enlargment.  The article argued that short of surgery the only way to add size to your penis was by losing 35lbs.  actually the size increase is more of a optical illusion since what is happening is that fat in the pubic region surrounding the penis is going away thus exposing more of what god had already provided.  The point of the article was to point out that the socalled penis enlargement products(pumps, creams etc) are basically frauds. Any men out there lose that type of weight and notice any size increase? Just curious Stuppy

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Didn’t Rosie say something like this happened to her?

ROFLMAO!!!! thanks!!! i needed that!! carol – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gary Mitchell Read a article regarding penis enlargment.  The article argued that short of surgery the only way to add size to your penis was by losing 35lbs.  actually the size increase is more of a optical illusion since what is happening is that fat in the pubic region surrounding the penis is going away thus exposing more of what god had already provided.  The point of the article was to point out that the socalled penis enlargement products(pumps, creams etc) are basically frauds. Any men out there lose that type of weight and notice any size increase? Just curious Stuppy

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Well I think we women have known this for a while! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Didn’t Rosie say something like this happened to her? Gary Mitchell Read a article regarding penis enlargment.  The article argued that short of surgery the only way to add size to your penis was by losing 35lbs. actually the size increase is more of a optical illusion since what is happening is that fat in the pubic region surrounding the penis is going away thus exposing more of what god had already provided.  The point of the article was to point out that the socalled penis enlargement products(pumps, creams etc) are basically frauds. Any men out there lose that type of weight and notice any size increase? Just curious Stuppy

Response:

Didn’t Rosie say something like this happened to her? Gary Mitchell – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Read a article regarding penis enlargment.  The article argued that short of surgery the only way to add size to your penis was by losing 35lbs.  actually the size increase is more of a optical illusion since what is happening is that fat in the pubic region surrounding the penis is going away thus exposing more of what god had already provided.  The point of the article was to point out that the socalled penis enlargement products(pumps, creams etc) are basically frauds. Any men out there lose that type of weight and notice any size increase? Just curious Stuppy

Response:

Read a article regarding penis enlargment.  The article argued that short of surgery the only way to add size to your penis was by losing 35lbs.  actually the size increase is more of a optical illusion since what is happening is that fat in the pubic region surrounding the penis is going away thus exposing more of what god had already provided.  The point of the article was to point out that the socalled penis enlargement products(pumps, creams etc) are basically frauds. Any men out there lose that type of weight and notice any size increase? Just curious Stuppy

Response:

Question:

I hope all stitchers read this message.  We were robbed last week. The thieves kicked in our 2 front doors, bursting the dead bolt.  They took my Springtime jewelry box, my husband’s jewelry box and several other things.  I am grieving over the loss of my stitching and my diamond engagement ring.  Please be aware that your jewelry box is the very worst place to put anything of value.  It is easily snatched, it is easily discarded.  If you have treasures around your house, HIDE THEM!  The thieves did not go into either bathroom so I would guess that’s a good place to put your valuables. Also, I imagine that thieves wouldn’t bother looking through a pile of canvases, threads, stitching supplies, etc.  Please do not let this warning pass by without taking action to protect your valuables. Jean Hilton

I want to add (while knocking on wood) that one of the worst places to hide things is in drawers – one of the techiques thieves use is to just dump all the contents on the floor and rummage though quickly.  Happened to a neighbor.  I’ve also read that thieves often pull all the books off the shelves, too, looking for "book safes."  Did they look in the kitchen? Lynn

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We were robbed about 6 or 7 years ago.  Took some rings that my husband had given his mother years before as well as my wedding ring and a bunch of costume jewelry.  They only looked in one of the jewelry boxes.  If they had looked in the other one they would have found the pearl necklace that had been my MIL’s.  Do they look in the kitchen?  YES.  Our neighbor’s dog was going nuts and when they looked out their back window they could see a light in the kitchen–the light from the frig.  The robbers decided to finish off a bottle of wine.  Wasn’t much in the bottle though.  I now have all the expensive jewelry in a wooden box with a key lock.  Yes, they can always take the box–if they find it!  Our robbers didn’t go through drawers thank goodness. Lori   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope all stitchers read this message.  We were robbed last week. The thieves kicked in our 2 front doors, bursting the dead bolt.  They took my Springtime jewelry box, my husband’s jewelry box and several other things.  I am grieving over the loss of my stitching and my diamond engagement ring.  Please be aware that your jewelry box is the very worst place to put anything of value.  It is easily snatched, it is easily discarded.  If you have treasures Jean Hilton I want to add (while knocking on wood) that one of the worst places to hide things is in drawers – one of the techiques thieves use is to just dump all the contents on the floor and rummage though quickly.  Happened to a neighbor.  I’ve also read that thieves often pull all the books off the shelves, too, looking for "book safes."  Did they look in the kitchen? Lynn

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Sorry about the burglary. There is no safe hiding spot in a house. Take your truly valuable things and put them in a safe deposit box at the bank. It costs anywhere from $20.00 to $30.00 a year. I keep the items that have sentimental  value there. . Watched a program on TV and these pro thieves were good, sorry to say.  Ask your local police not to include your name or address in the police report in the paper. We heard that a lot of times people get robbed again approx. 6 month later, because burglars assume by that time you have settled with your insurance and replaced some of the items.

Too true.  I have friends who were robbed 4 times in 12 months, because the thieves (in this case, there are strong indications that it is the same people each time) were after the new stuff that the insurance company paid for!  Alarms, window bars and deadlocks have not deterred these people, and the dog was poisoned. Aramanth — The bigger they are, the more pieces they break into.

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A friend of my mother’s is cleaning out *her* mother’s house, and is finding cash all over the place–thousands of dollars of it.

My grandma did this too, I sure hope we found it all before we sold the house ;-(.    I even found cash in the Bible she left me.  and in canning jars, and in old purses and in her needlework basket (that was the only one that made sense to me  - stash enhancement, you know <G)   Karla

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Sorry about the burglary. There is no safe hiding spot in a house. Take your truly valuable things and put them in a safe deposit box at the bank. It costs anywhere from $20.00 to $30.00 a year. I keep the items that have sentimental  value there. . Watched a program on TV and these pro thieves were good, sorry to say.  Ask your local police not to include your name or address in the police report in the paper. We heard that a lot of times people get robbed again approx. 6 month later, because burglars assume by that time you have settled with your insurance and replaced some of the items.

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Hi Linda Sorry to read of your last year robbery.  From your description it sounds like it was an inside job.  How did they know you were going to be out to lunch that particular day?  I was robbed over twenty years ago and I know the feeling.  I was being watched.  They new that my apartment was empty all day because I was working.  Its a terrible feeling. Hope it does not happen again.  Sometimes they come back. I moved shortly afterward. EdithNYC

And sometimes the police officer tells you that it’s your fault.  I don’t remember if I shared this before or not, so if I did just skip the rest: I spent the night at a friends house.  Came home to my apartment to find my front door kicked in and my answering machine missing.  (Just my answering machine!)  Called the police right away.  Police officer came out to my apartment and told me that "this type of thing does not happen in Williamston." and told me in no uncertain terms that it was obviously friends of mine that did it and that I brought this to the town when I moved in (I had never had any problems involving police before in my life).  Two days later my answering machine was found outside in the apartment complex with death threats on it.  The police officer at the station informed me that I was lying to police and that it was a "friend" of mine playing a game. After that, the police would not return my calls. After I moved out of town, I found out that a maintenance man at the complex was caught breaking into another apartment in my complex.  This was the same man who was standing there repairing my doorway while the police officer stood right there and told me that the whole thing was my fault.  The police never told me about this.  I found out through another person who lived at those apartments. It has now been almost 8 years without any acknowledgement from that police station that they were wrong. It’s very scary knowing that the man who targeted me was right there and knew that the police were not going to do anything to help me if he tried it again. Stephenie

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My grandmother had been robbed three times so she took to hiding everything.  Shortly before she died she showed me where everything was hidden and told my grandfather nothing could be thrown out until I went through the house.  

     Which brings up an excellent point:  if you’re gonna do this sort of thing, make sure that *somebody* in the family besides you knows where this stuff is!  My late father "hid" stuff all over a rambling farmhouse and didn’t tell anyone where his caches were, and I don’t think we’ve found it all until yet.  (Particularly worrying is a late-19th-century pistol that’s collectible as hell, and which *hasn’t* turned up.)                                           Sam — * Sam Waring                        * Disclaimer: FlashNet Communications * * NOTE: Address above is anti-spammed * doesn’t necessarily agree with my * * curmudgn at flash.net               * opinions and neither do I.        * *                                                                         * * Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II,