My Jewelry Dreams » Engagement And Wedding Rings » I married a CHILD in a man's body!!!!
I married a CHILD in a man's body!!!!
Question:
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:40:15 -0400, "Robert" <rs…@catholic.org
wrote: God how I know that one.. Im a man that married a woman that is stuck at the age of 13 (the age her father molested her) She always is scream that she is an adult but is not mature enough to understand that in a marriage BOTH partners have a responsibility in the marriage, ie house keeping, raising the children in a CHRISTIAN enviroment. Instead she leaves the house a mess (stays home with kids all day) complains about how the kids drive her nuts, calls me 3 or more times a day.. most of the time at least once an hour..
What are you doing to fix your marriage? While there surely is more to the story, it would not surprise me if your wife is clinically depressed … she needs help, perhaps both medication and talk therapy. Yelling at her, treating her like a child or throwing a Bible in her face is not going to do it. Floridanewbie
Response:
Gogirl <gogir…@my-deja.com writes: I didn’t say "permanently" dependent; but unfortunately, it is not very rare for people to become dependent on their therapist for extended periods of time, even years.
That is not the norm GoGirl. Sure it happens from time to time. Ask around; most people have seen a therapist in their lifetime…few have become addicted to them. I can’t help but think of Woody Allen as you describe this dependency. You might want to watch "What about Bob" with Bill Murray and Richard Dreyffus. It is hilarious and is about a guy who thinks that he can’t live without his therapist. Sure it can happen…but remember one thing…you are in charge, not the therapist. When you are seeing a therapist and you feel dependent, you either talk about it in a session or you quit. No one twists your arm to stay. It sounds to me like you might be using this as an excuse to avoid going for help. There are many excuses that people use…not everyone is hip on embracing their problems. ~~~~Don’t spit into the well–you might drink from it later.~~~
Response:
God how I know that one.. Im a man that married a woman that is stuck at the age of 13 (the age her father molested her) She always is scream that she is an adult but is not mature enough to understand that in a marriage BOTH partners have a responsibility in the marriage, ie house keeping, raising the children in a CHRISTIAN enviroment. Instead she leaves the house a mess (stays home with kids all day) complains about how the kids drive her nuts, calls me 3 or more times a day.. most of the time at least once an hour.. Robert 1 Dumb Chick <1dumbch…@my-deja.com
wrote in message
<7klncd$do…@nnrp1.deja.com
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I met a man over a decade ago. It seemed like we fell in love. We got married. I knew he had problems because he came from a dysfunctional family, but so what, so did I. In spite of his past, he seemed strong and capable. He is brillant. He was loyal, hardworking and caring. He had terrible relationships before and stated that he was ready to settle with one woman who he could trust. We had many common interests and the same sense of humor about life. He had faced the same adversities I had, actually he had faced worse things and survived them. Our sex life was great. I thought he was the kind of man I had been looking for. I thought we could grow together. I thought we understood each other in a world that can be cruel to those who grew up as strangers in their own homes and feel isolated from people who have led more fortunate lives. It has taken a long time to see the truth about my mate. Years have a way of revealing secrets. He is a CHILD in a man’s body. Look, all adults have their moments when they are childlike, and it’s not always a bad thing. Sometimes we whine or want to be taken care of by our mate. Sometimes we want comfort that is familiar from our past. I think a certain amount of that is normal. The man I thought I married is emotionally stuck at thirteen, the age at which his parents divorced. He was an only child whose father was distant and uncaring. His mother was an alcoholic and control freak. All of our parents are dead now, or I would have sent him home to mommy a long time ago. He is in his forties. I have to leave this man if I am going to survive. He drains the life out of me. I am disabled and do not have enough money to live on. I try to work but get too sick to continue. My family, never supportive to begin with, wants nothing to do with me. Because of my husband’s demeanor and my own shame in having trapped myself in this mess, I have no close friends. He knows how I feel. I tell him constantly. He knows that when I find the FIRST opportunity to leave him, I am GONE. This has made his whiny-clingy-temper-tantrum-good boy behavior even worse. I’ve had a separate bank account for years and tried to save enough money to leave him, though I never seem to save enough. I am a careful spender. The husband makes sure the bills get paid. Any extra money is spent on things we actually use, mostly to keep me from accumulating enough funds to leave him (his words). He does not hit me or blatantly abuse me in cruel ways, again so that I cannot turn to agencies to help me leave. I have tried everything in my area. We don’t have any kids, thank God. The only resources I have been able to find are homeless shelters. When I called them, I heard things like "this is no place for a woman like you"… lice, bugs, violence, rape, you name it. My last hope is to try to work for myself at home via the Internet. I have explained to him that my ultimate goal is to develop enough income for an attorney and relocation. This has INCREASED his childish behavior. This is my bed and I have to lie in it. All I wonder is why a person would not want to leave behind a childhood that was miserable in the first place. Why would someone think another person can make up for a past that cannot be made up for? I have a long way to go, but I have worked DAMNED HARD to put my childhood in the past and become a responsible adult. I did not get married to take care of some mother’s son who wants to stay stuck. What is there to gain by staying silly and childish? This man annoys the hell out of everyone he meets because of his clinging, silly, childlike behavior. Because he works hard, he is always employed, but gets fired all the time. I hardly ever go out in public with him anymore. I’m not interested in having an affair or getting into a relationship after I finally get a divorce. I fear I am scarred for life. Sometimes I think I want a MAN, and even think about finding one. I doubt if I could take the chance on another relationship. I go to counseling. The child tried counseling with me several times, but got terrified and ran away each time. Now he refuses any sort of counseling, either with me or by himself. He thinks the sole problem is that I "have turned mean" and "don’t love him anymore". I _don’t_love him anymore and I have stopped doing anything close to the mothering he so desperately wants. I’ve told him to go find someone who can do the job. Obviously, he can’t. I am sorry this went on so long. I feel so alone and tired. This situation is making my health problems worse by the day. I will keep trying until I find a way out of this situation. Today, I am filled with loneliness and frustration. I feel like I just had to tell someone, anyone. I know I am not alone, there are people who chose mates who wanted a parent and not a lover and are stuck with them. 1 REALLY DUMB Chick Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
Gogirl <gogir…@my-deja.com
writes: I didn’t say "permanently" dependent; but unfortunately, it is not very rare for people to become dependent on their therapist for extended periods of time, even years.
What do you mean by "dependent"? Unable to make decisions without consulting the therapist? Unable to go on vacations? Unable to function without calling the therapist first? What, exactly, are you talking about? I am in therapy all the time (my choice) and I’m not dependent on my therapist except for her to listen to me when no one else wants to.
And I know individuals who get much better when they leave therapy.
Maybe they got better because of the therapy.
I am not talking about marriage counseling or couples in therapy, however.
Why are they exempt?
Unfortunately this particular profession is not very well regulated, and there are far too many lousy therapists out there.
Easy thing to say but you leave out the part about all the many good therapists out there. Karen
Response:
I didn’t say "permanently" dependent; but unfortunately, it is not very rare for people to become dependent on their therapist for extended periods of time, even years. And I know individuals who get much better when they leave therapy. I am not talking about marriage counseling or couples in therapy, however. Unfortunately this particular profession is not very well regulated, and there are far too many lousy therapists out there. In article <7ktn6d$8p…@carroll.library.ucla.edu
,
ro…@hhmi.ucla.edu (Karen Ronan) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It is rare for people to become permanently dependent > on their therapist. It’s far more common for them to abruptly > terminate therapy before there was time to make the gains that > they need. > Karen > Gogirl <gogir…@my-deja.com> writes: > > My concern about therapy/counseling (individual or couple) is when it becomes > > long-term, and the person or persons become dependent on the therapist or > > counselor. The goal of any good therapy/counseling should be for the > > individual(s) to develop their own support system so that a professional is > > no longer needed. There is a great book written by a clinical psychologist > > that addresses these types of issues. It’s called "Beware the Talking Cure" > > by Terence Campbell, PhD. I recommend it to anyone considering or in > > therapy. It gives concrete guidance on what to watch out for and what to > > look for to find quality mental health care. > > In article <7kn3aa$ug…@nnrp1.deja.com
,
> > 1 Dumb Chick <1dumbch…@my-deja.com> wrote: > > > Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. You have been honest. > > > I have had to quell the urge to react strongly. I’m 50 percent of this > > > equation. Am I missing something? Maybe I _have_ turned mean. I > > > have to accept my role in this relationship. > > > In answer to the questions various posters have asked; I’ve tried hard > > > to not be a controlling person. As I mentioned, my husband grew up > > > with a harsh and controlling mother. I have tried to encourage him to > > > do things he has expressed interest in, whether I share those interests > > > or not. One of the qualities I loved most in him was his > > > individuality. Income? When I am not employed, he is the primary > > > earner. When I am employed, our income is usually equal. We discuss > > > all major expenditures. He does get frightened when I accumulate any > > > savings. All bank records are equally accessible on our computer or > > > online, there are no financial secrets. > > > Severe depression and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder are my > > > disabilities. I hesitated to mention this, because I do not want to be > > > construed as a pity party on wheels. I am not! Depression is a > > > medical illness, and it appears to be hereditary. I have been in > > > treatment for many years. My husband was diagnosed with major > > > depression (among other things) several years ago. He has been treated > > > briefly in the past and taken medication. The treatment came to a halt > > > whenever the person he was working with got too close to his history > > > and behavior. I also have medical problems, one of which will require > > > surgery and an extended recovery period. I’ve hesitated to go ahead > > > with the surgery until this relationship issue has been settled, > > > because it has sent my PTSD into overdrive. > > > I read the responses and took a hard look inside myself. Gogirl, > > > especially, made me think. I _may have become mean_. Perhaps my > > > husband’s behavior is so irritating because I received almost no > > > nurturing in my past. My parents also divorced when I was very young, > > > and there’s a vast abuse history. My recovery has been centered on > > > forgiving and moving on. Obviously, I haven’t. I likely triggered > > > long-forgotten needs in my husband when I began to acknowledge and > > > accept my own. His behavior makes me angry because it is behavior _I > > > was abused for and not permitted to indulge in!_ Withholding > > > affection due to resentment is a form of abuse. I had to look in the > > > mirror today and see the very thing I wanted to never become. I am an > > > _abuser_. God, that hurts. Growing up hurts sometimes. > > > I think I wanted a hero. Instead, I got a human being. > > > I do not know how to handle his childlike needs, because I handle my > > > own poorly. I cannot abide his temper tantrums, clinging and > > > indecisiveness, but we chose each other because we _understood_ each > > > other. Why didn’t I seek someone else? Because, in the beginning, > > > we were well-matched. Perhaps we lost sight of it. > > > I’m willing to do give-and-take nurturing, even though I’m not good at > > > it. But I do not like being leaned on or treated like a mother instead > > > of a mate. > > > I have to get some sleep, get up tomorrow and work on my new business > > > venture, and do some more hard soul-searching. Again, thank you all > > > for your honesty, and further comments are welcome. Perhaps I can > > > return the favor in the future. :) > > > 1 Dumb Humble Chick > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Share what you know. Learn what you don’t. > > — > > Love is a decision. > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
– Love is a decision. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
It is rare for people to become permanently dependent on their therapist. It’s far more common for them to abruptly terminate therapy before there was time to make the gains that they need. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gogirl <gogir…@my-deja.com
writes: My concern about therapy/counseling (individual or couple) is when it becomes long-term, and the person or persons become dependent on the therapist or counselor. The goal of any good therapy/counseling should be for the individual(s) to develop their own support system so that a professional is no longer needed. There is a great book written by a clinical psychologist that addresses these types of issues. It’s called "Beware the Talking Cure" by Terence Campbell, PhD. I recommend it to anyone considering or in therapy. It gives concrete guidance on what to watch out for and what to look for to find quality mental health care. In article <7kn3aa$ug…@nnrp1.deja.com, 1 Dumb Chick <1dumbch…@my-deja.com wrote: Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. You have been honest. I have had to quell the urge to react strongly. I’m 50 percent of this equation. Am I missing something? Maybe I _have_ turned mean. I have to accept my role in this relationship. In answer to the questions various posters have asked; I’ve tried hard to not be a controlling person. As I mentioned, my husband grew up with a harsh and controlling mother. I have tried to encourage him to do things he has expressed interest in, whether I share those interests or not. One of the qualities I loved most in him was his individuality. Income? When I am not employed, he is the primary earner. When I am employed, our income is usually equal. We discuss all major expenditures. He does get frightened when I accumulate any savings. All bank records are equally accessible on our computer or online, there are no financial secrets. Severe depression and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder are my disabilities. I hesitated to mention this, because I do not want to be construed as a pity party on wheels. I am not! Depression is a medical illness, and it appears to be hereditary. I have been in treatment for many years. My husband was diagnosed with major depression (among other things) several years ago. He has been treated briefly in the past and taken medication. The treatment came to a halt whenever the person he was working with got too close to his history and behavior. I also have medical problems, one of which will require surgery and an extended recovery period. I’ve hesitated to go ahead with the surgery until this relationship issue has been settled, because it has sent my PTSD into overdrive. I read the responses and took a hard look inside myself. Gogirl, especially, made me think. I _may have become mean_. Perhaps my husband’s behavior is so irritating because I received almost no nurturing in my past. My parents also divorced when I was very young, and there’s a vast abuse history. My recovery has been centered on forgiving and moving on. Obviously, I haven’t. I likely triggered long-forgotten needs in my husband when I began to acknowledge and accept my own. His behavior makes me angry because it is behavior _I was abused for and not permitted to indulge in!_ Withholding affection due to resentment is a form of abuse. I had to look in the mirror today and see the very thing I wanted to never become. I am an _abuser_. God, that hurts. Growing up hurts sometimes. I think I wanted a hero. Instead, I got a human being. I do not know how to handle his childlike needs, because I handle my own poorly. I cannot abide his temper tantrums, clinging and indecisiveness, but we chose each other because we _understood_ each other. Why didn’t I seek someone else? Because, in the beginning, we were well-matched. Perhaps we lost sight of it. I’m willing to do give-and-take nurturing, even though I’m not good at it. But I do not like being leaned on or treated like a mother instead of a mate. I have to get some sleep, get up tomorrow and work on my new business venture, and do some more hard soul-searching. Again, thank you all for your honesty, and further comments are welcome. Perhaps I can return the favor in the future. :) 1 Dumb Humble Chick Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t. — Love is a decision. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
Seek and you shall find, so goes the phrase… Its sounds like you are on a journey of self discovery. One that brings many sad and happy thoughts into exsistance. It is not a time to judge the events, but to reflect and grow from them. Your relationship seems co-dependent, although your husband seems more dependent than yourself. Compliment relationships only work for a time, because are needs and wants change constantly and our partners rarely change in the same direction. They always look like they are unsupportive, yet they support personal growth, because it forces you to look at your own neuroses more clearly. To some a good relationship is one where another person behaves the way we want them to and never pushs any of our buttons. But this only succeeds to hold our personal growth back. Its not our job to look for love, but to look at what holds us back from recieving it. Remembering that you will be given situations that you will always be able to deal with and that you are whole as you are. You don’t need anyone to make you complete…you just need to discover that you are. Have fun with your journey… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1 Dumb Chick wrote:
Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. You have been honest. I have had to quell the urge to react strongly. I’m 50 percent of this equation. Am I missing something? Maybe I _have_ turned mean. I have to accept my role in this relationship. In answer to the questions various posters have asked; I’ve tried hard to not be a controlling person. As I mentioned, my husband grew up with a harsh and controlling mother. I have tried to encourage him to do things he has expressed interest in, whether I share those interests or not. One of the qualities I loved most in him was his individuality. Income? When I am not employed, he is the primary earner. When I am employed, our income is usually equal. We discuss all major expenditures. He does get frightened when I accumulate any savings. All bank records are equally accessible on our computer or online, there are no financial secrets. Severe depression and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder are my disabilities. I hesitated to mention this, because I do not want to be construed as a pity party on wheels. I am not! Depression is a medical illness, and it appears to be hereditary. I have been in treatment for many years. My husband was diagnosed with major depression (among other things) several years ago. He has been treated briefly in the past and taken medication. The treatment came to a halt whenever the person he was working with got too close to his history and behavior. I also have medical problems, one of which will require surgery and an extended recovery period. I’ve hesitated to go ahead with the surgery until this relationship issue has been settled, because it has sent my PTSD into overdrive. I read the responses and took a hard look inside myself. Gogirl, especially, made me think. I _may have become mean_. Perhaps my husband’s behavior is so irritating because I received almost no nurturing in my past. My parents also divorced when I was very young, and there’s a vast abuse history. My recovery has been centered on forgiving and moving on. Obviously, I haven’t. I likely triggered long-forgotten needs in my husband when I began to acknowledge and accept my own. His behavior makes me angry because it is behavior _I was abused for and not permitted to indulge in!_ Withholding affection due to resentment is a form of abuse. I had to look in the mirror today and see the very thing I wanted to never become. I am an _abuser_. God, that hurts. Growing up hurts sometimes. I think I wanted a hero. Instead, I got a human being. I do not know how to handle his childlike needs, because I handle my own poorly. I cannot abide his temper tantrums, clinging and indecisiveness, but we chose each other because we _understood_ each other. Why didn’t I seek someone else? Because, in the beginning, we were well-matched. Perhaps we lost sight of it. I’m willing to do give-and-take nurturing, even though I’m not good at it. But I do not like being leaned on or treated like a mother instead of a mate. I have to get some sleep, get up tomorrow and work on my new business venture, and do some more hard soul-searching. Again, thank you all for your honesty, and further comments are welcome. Perhaps I can return the favor in the future. :) 1 Dumb Humble Chick Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
I read your post twice. You don’t sound dumb to me. I think you sounded ingtelligent and open and responsible. I was impressed by what you wrote, how you expressed it, and what you were willing to do even tho it hurt to change. That shows strength of character to me. I hope things work out well for you. Arnie In article <7kn3aa$ug…@nnrp1.deja.com
, 1 Dumb Chick
<1dumbch…@my-deja.com
wrote: Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. You have been honest. I have had to quell the urge to react strongly. I’m 50 percent of this equation. Am I missing something? Maybe I _have_ turned mean. I have to accept my role in this relationship. snip
— Perseverance is not a long race. It is many short races one after another.
Response:
You have already given back to me by letting me know that something I said may have made a positive difference for you. Thanks for letting me know. What Karen says about a third person possibly being able to be the "parent" for you and your husband right now makes sense, as long as it’s a temporary situation on the way to the two of you being able to support each other. It’s true I think that in most successful marriages, when one partner needs nurturing, the other nurtures; and then the roles reverse. When a situation arises likes yours where both partners need to be nurtured simultaneously, problems can arise (perhaps this is why the death of a child often results in divorce?). My concern about therapy/counseling (individual or couple) is when it becomes long-term, and the person or persons become dependent on the therapist or counselor. The goal of any good therapy/counseling should be for the individual(s) to develop their own support system so that a professional is no longer needed. There is a great book written by a clinical psychologist that addresses these types of issues. It’s called "Beware the Talking Cure" by Terence Campbell, PhD. I recommend it to anyone considering or in therapy. It gives concrete guidance on what to watch out for and what to look for to find quality mental health care. In article <7kn3aa$ug…@nnrp1.deja.com
,
1 Dumb Chick <1dumbch…@my-deja.com
wrote:
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Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. You have been honest. I have had to quell the urge to react strongly. I’m 50 percent of this equation. Am I missing something? Maybe I _have_ turned mean. I have to accept my role in this relationship. In answer to the questions various posters have asked; I’ve tried hard to not be a controlling person. As I mentioned, my husband grew up with a harsh and controlling mother. I have tried to encourage him to do things he has expressed interest in, whether I share those interests or not. One of the qualities I loved most in him was his individuality. Income? When I am not employed, he is the primary earner. When I am employed, our income is usually equal. We discuss all major expenditures. He does get frightened when I accumulate any savings. All bank records are equally accessible on our computer or online, there are no financial secrets. Severe depression and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder are my disabilities. I hesitated to mention this, because I do not want to be construed as a pity party on wheels. I am not! Depression is a medical illness, and it appears to be hereditary. I have been in treatment for many years. My husband was diagnosed with major depression (among other things) several years ago. He has been treated briefly in the past and taken medication. The treatment came to a halt whenever the person he was working with got too close to his history and behavior. I also have medical problems, one of which will require surgery and an extended recovery period. I’ve hesitated to go ahead with the surgery until this relationship issue has been settled, because it has sent my PTSD into overdrive. I read the responses and took a hard look inside myself. Gogirl, especially, made me think. I _may have become mean_. Perhaps my husband’s behavior is so irritating because I received almost no nurturing in my past. My parents also divorced when I was very young, and there’s a vast abuse history. My recovery has been centered on forgiving and moving on. Obviously, I haven’t. I likely triggered long-forgotten needs in my husband when I began to acknowledge and accept my own. His behavior makes me angry because it is behavior _I was abused for and not permitted to indulge in!_ Withholding affection due to resentment is a form of abuse. I had to look in the mirror today and see the very thing I wanted to never become. I am an _abuser_. God, that hurts. Growing up hurts sometimes. I think I wanted a hero. Instead, I got a human being. I do not know how to handle his childlike needs, because I handle my own poorly. I cannot abide his temper tantrums, clinging and indecisiveness, but we chose each other because we _understood_ each other. Why didn’t I seek someone else? Because, in the beginning, we were well-matched. Perhaps we lost sight of it. I’m willing to do give-and-take nurturing, even though I’m not good at it. But I do not like being leaned on or treated like a mother instead of a mate. I have to get some sleep, get up tomorrow and work on my new business venture, and do some more hard soul-searching. Again, thank you all for your honesty, and further comments are welcome. Perhaps I can return the favor in the future. :) 1 Dumb Humble Chick Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
— Love is a decision. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
From: ro…@hhmi.ucla.edu (Karen Ronan) Let me know if this makes any sense to you.
It makes a lot of sense to me. You are a wise person Karen. You add a lot to this group. ~~~~Don’t spit into the well–you might drink from it later.~~~
Response:
Oceanmomma, you took the words right out of my mouth! (Or should that be plucked them from my keyboard?) I was going to suggest a name change, too – this person is certainly no "dumb chick." Fluffy Rain – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oceanmomma wrote:
From: 1 Dumb Chick Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. You have been honest. I have had to quell the urge to react strongly. I’m 50 percent of this equation. Am I missing something? Maybe I _have_ turned mean. I have to accept my role in this relationship. I have a lot of admiration for you. You are able to listen to and hear what others are saying. You are willing to look at yourself and not place all of the blame elsewhere. You sound strong to me…and wise. I have a favor to ask of you. Would you change your name to 1smartchick? I think it would be a postive change for you…rather than a putdown. You deserve happiness…as does your husband. Hopefully it can be together. If not, you both still deserve happiness. You do have some tough work ahead of you but you sound as if you are up for the challenge. My best to you
Response:
instead of wasting everyone’s time by trying to change him?
If he is really as childish as she says he is, He will probably start expecting her to literally change him IE he will begin to start wearing depends. LOL I am tired. Laura — Wicked Witch of the Net — You’re the cilantro in my salsa, The Cuban in my cigar, the sugar in my tea and the Oompa in my Loompa — Marvelous Momma to Magnificent Melissa {Age 4.5} And Awesome AJ {Born March 18 1999}
Response:
Read "Aphrodite’s Daughters" by Jalaja Bonheim or better still leave it around waiting for him to read it. It’s described as Womens Sexual Stories and the Journey of the Soul. It is centred around the latter more. You’ve lost that connectivity, I’m not an expert but you have to connect, that is what relationships are about. I play a lot of social volleyball. Bad knees? doesn’t sound right to me. I had a bad back [old age and too much volleyball] but after 4 days of solid rest, it came right, now I’m OK, and still playing. Life is about spirituality, even for those who don’t believe in it. Be yourself, and enjoy being who you are. Harvey
Response:
From: 1 Dumb Chick Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. You have been honest. I have had to quell the urge to react strongly. I’m 50 percent of this equation. Am I missing something? Maybe I _have_ turned mean. I have to accept my role in this relationship.
I have a lot of admiration for you. You are able to listen to and hear what others are saying. You are willing to look at yourself and not place all of the blame elsewhere. You sound strong to me…and wise. I have a favor to ask of you. Would you change your name to 1smartchick? I think it would be a postive change for you…rather than a putdown. You deserve happiness…as does your husband. Hopefully it can be together. If not, you both still deserve happiness. You do have some tough work ahead of you but you sound as if you are up for the challenge. My best to you ~~~~Don’t spit into the well–you might drink from it later.~~~
Response:
Hi, Once I brought our couples therapist a photograph I downloaded from the internet portraying two American Indian babies, in cradleboards, both crying. I thought it was a striking photo and perhaps even a cute photo, that she would like. She was struck by it but not in the way I expected. She thought it seemed to represent me and my husband who sometimes feel like these babies with no adult around. There are times (or a majority of time) when a couple regresses into a childlike, dependent state, and no one is able to function as the "parent" at that moment, or else one person is appointed the "parent" (which is too much, each has to take that role sometimes), then, imho, the marriage needs a "holding environment" and a "container" where _someone_ takes on the parental role, at least temporarily, and holds all the bad feelings, rage and resentment until the marriage can handle it. That person is a good therapist. Let me know if this makes any sense to you. Karen 1 Dumb Chick <1dumbch…@my-deja.com
writes:
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Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. You have been honest. I have had to quell the urge to react strongly. I’m 50 percent of this equation. Am I missing something? Maybe I _have_ turned mean. I have to accept my role in this relationship. In answer to the questions various posters have asked; I’ve tried hard to not be a controlling person. As I mentioned, my husband grew up with a harsh and controlling mother. I have tried to encourage him to do things he has expressed interest in, whether I share those interests or not. One of the qualities I loved most in him was his individuality. Income? When I am not employed, he is the primary earner. When I am employed, our income is usually equal. We discuss all major expenditures. He does get frightened when I accumulate any savings. All bank records are equally accessible on our computer or online, there are no financial secrets. Severe depression and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder are my disabilities. I hesitated to mention this, because I do not want to be construed as a pity party on wheels. I am not! Depression is a medical illness, and it appears to be hereditary. I have been in treatment for many years. My husband was diagnosed with major depression (among other things) several years ago. He has been treated briefly in the past and taken medication. The treatment came to a halt whenever the person he was working with got too close to his history and behavior. I also have medical problems, one of which will require surgery and an extended recovery period. I’ve hesitated to go ahead with the surgery until this relationship issue has been settled, because it has sent my PTSD into overdrive. I read the responses and took a hard look inside myself. Gogirl, especially, made me think. I _may have become mean_. Perhaps my husband’s behavior is so irritating because I received almost no nurturing in my past. My parents also divorced when I was very young, and there’s a vast abuse history. My recovery has been centered on forgiving and moving on. Obviously, I haven’t. I likely triggered long-forgotten needs in my husband when I began to acknowledge and accept my own. His behavior makes me angry because it is behavior _I was abused for and not permitted to indulge in!_ Withholding affection due to resentment is a form of abuse. I had to look in the mirror today and see the very thing I wanted to never become. I am an _abuser_. God, that hurts. Growing up hurts sometimes. I think I wanted a hero. Instead, I got a human being. I do not know how to handle his childlike needs, because I handle my own poorly. I cannot abide his temper tantrums, clinging and indecisiveness, but we chose each other because we _understood_ each other. Why didn’t I seek someone else? Because, in the beginning, we were well-matched. Perhaps we lost sight of it. I’m willing to do give-and-take nurturing, even though I’m not good at it. But I do not like being leaned on or treated like a mother instead of a mate. I have to get some sleep, get up tomorrow and work on my new business venture, and do some more hard soul-searching. Again, thank you all for your honesty, and further comments are welcome. Perhaps I can return the favor in the future. :) 1 Dumb Humble Chick Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. You have been honest. I have had to quell the urge to react strongly. I’m 50 percent of this equation. Am I missing something? Maybe I _have_ turned mean. I have to accept my role in this relationship. In answer to the questions various posters have asked; I’ve tried hard to not be a controlling person. As I mentioned, my husband grew up with a harsh and controlling mother. I have tried to encourage him to do things he has expressed interest in, whether I share those interests or not. One of the qualities I loved most in him was his individuality. Income? When I am not employed, he is the primary earner. When I am employed, our income is usually equal. We discuss all major expenditures. He does get frightened when I accumulate any savings. All bank records are equally accessible on our computer or online, there are no financial secrets. Severe depression and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder are my disabilities. I hesitated to mention this, because I do not want to be construed as a pity party on wheels. I am not! Depression is a medical illness, and it appears to be hereditary. I have been in treatment for many years. My husband was diagnosed with major depression (among other things) several years ago. He has been treated briefly in the past and taken medication. The treatment came to a halt whenever the person he was working with got too close to his history and behavior. I also have medical problems, one of which will require surgery and an extended recovery period. I’ve hesitated to go ahead with the surgery until this relationship issue has been settled, because it has sent my PTSD into overdrive. I read the responses and took a hard look inside myself. Gogirl, especially, made me think. I _may have become mean_. Perhaps my husband’s behavior is so irritating because I received almost no nurturing in my past. My parents also divorced when I was very young, and there’s a vast abuse history. My recovery has been centered on forgiving and moving on. Obviously, I haven’t. I likely triggered long-forgotten needs in my husband when I began to acknowledge and accept my own. His behavior makes me angry because it is behavior _I was abused for and not permitted to indulge in!_ Withholding affection due to resentment is a form of abuse. I had to look in the mirror today and see the very thing I wanted to never become. I am an _abuser_. God, that hurts. Growing up hurts sometimes. I think I wanted a hero. Instead, I got a human being. I do not know how to handle his childlike needs, because I handle my own poorly. I cannot abide his temper tantrums, clinging and indecisiveness, but we chose each other because we _understood_ each other. Why didn’t I seek someone else? Because, in the beginning, we were well-matched. Perhaps we lost sight of it. I’m willing to do give-and-take nurturing, even though I’m not good at it. But I do not like being leaned on or treated like a mother instead of a mate. I have to get some sleep, get up tomorrow and work on my new business venture, and do some more hard soul-searching. Again, thank you all for your honesty, and further comments are welcome. Perhaps I can return the favor in the future. :) 1 Dumb Humble Chick Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:57:11 GMT, 1 Dumb Chick <1dumbch…@my-deja.com
wrote: <snip
>I have health and emotional problems. He has health and >emotional problems. Two years ago, I became quite ill and had to work >hard to recover. My efforts have shown success. It appears the >childish behavior escalated as my recovery progressed. During the >recovery, I tried to be careful not to ignore him or our relationship. >I tried to include him in my healing process. I set aside time for >him.
Apparently you sought help for your emotional problems; did he ever acknowledge his difficulties or seek help for those problems? You may have grown while he stayed the same; that could be threatening enough for him to cause the clingy, indecisive behavor of which you complain. Have either of you read Angry Men, Passive Men … people often laugh at the men’s movement but he would fit onto the pages of that book in various categories. Unless he wants to change and is willing to work at it, you are not going to be satisfied with the relationship you now have Has he been to the doctor to see if there is a medical reason for his behavior … he may be clinically depressed and need medication if no other cause is found. Your original post listed quite a nice set of attractive attributes for him; something has caused him to withdraw. If he can get hold of himself, then the two of you may want to consider marriage counseling but in his current state, that might be a waste of time and money. Floridanewbie
Response:
I agree with Melissa that your husband needs your loving kindness, or you could say I agree with your husband that you have become mean. Is it possible your own disability is increasing your need to be nurtured; therefore his needs to be nurtured now make you angry and mean? While I realize our childhoods certainly play a part in who we are, I do not believe they are the be-all and end-all to all our issues and problems. And if "growing" in recovery means a formerly happy marriage falls apart, I question the value of such "recovery." In article <929987204.6…@www.remarq.com
,
melissa <missie.john…@eudoramail.com
wrote:
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Just some random thoughts here… Was your husband always whining and child-like? If not, when did it start? Can you think of anything that could have triggered it? Maybe when the ’sparks’ went out? When life became routine? It sounds like he’s getting worse now because he’s afraid of abandonment (which he knows is forthcoming). He felt abandoned by his parents when they got divorced. He needs to learn to deal with his feelings, and counselling is the best way. Even more, he needs somebody to love him and be there for him. You need to really try to be that somebody right now. You don’t love him because of his childish behavior, he’s behaving childishly because you don’t love him anymore. Give it a try, try to get him some help and rekindle your love for him. You made vows, for better or for worse. You need to give it your best shot before leaving. Try loving him again, and treating him with warmth and kindness. You may be surprised at the man you see. Good luck, Melissa **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****
— Love is a decision. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
In article <7klsj2$om…@slave1.aa.net
,
"Binky Barnes" <binkybar…@removeski.cheerful.com
wrote: It is intensely difficult to assess your situation unless you describe a bit more what you mean when you say "childish behavior".
Sure. He is very clinging and insecure. He resists making decisions on his own, though he is quite capable. He’s always "asking my permission" to do things. I’ve told him I’m his wife, not his boss, he dosen’t need my "permission" to do anything! When I am employed, he pouts or throws temper tantrums when I don’t buy him "little gifts", especially things like junk food (cookies, sweets, etc..) I’ve tried to do spontaneous things like taking him out to dinner, or picking up a little something in a store that I see that he might like. If I _don’t_ do this constantly, I am accused of "selfishness". Most guys I’ve known like to have time with other guys or do "guy stuff" — things that don’t often involve women. I encourage him to do "guy things" that don’t include me, but he dosen’t. He never wants to socialize without me. He dosen’t watch sports on TV at all unless I am. He used to play football and hockey, bowl and practice martial arts, so I know he likes sports. He has a back injury, so he can’t do many sports any more, though we both enjoy bicycling. We used to play volleyball together, but I have bad knees and can’t play anymore. I’ve told him to find games without me; he won’t. I’ve encouraged him to resume martial arts training; he won’t. I’ve asked if there is anything he wants to do. He gives vague answers like "making friends", but won’t because "we don’t have enough money". Since when does money matter in friendships? People like you or they don’t. I don’t think it’s healthy for a couple to spend every moment together. He tries to make his own friends on occasion, then gives up. When I try to make freinds, he buts in and scares the friends away. If I talk on the phone to anyone, I actually have to take the (cordless) phone outside because he interrupts my phone calls. He calls home two or three times a day. He works TWO BLOCKS AWAY and comes home for lunch every day! He wants 100 percent of my attention.
I have found that in some situations where women complain about their husband’s "childishness", that they are themselves coming from a position of over-maternalism, and I hear some of that in your post.
I attempted to be a nurturing partner but not a smothering one. We used to do cutesy things like my bathing him or his shaving my legs. I know his mother smothered him, so I always gave him his own space. We divided up household chores according to each other’s skills. I’m better at cleaning and actually enjoy it, but he would vacuum and do laundry if housework stacked up. I am a good cook, but he is a _great_ one. He used to do most of the cooking because he WANTED to. I would help him prepare food if he asked. Now he eats junk food if I don’t cook, or I have to practically beg him to cook once in a while. When he cooks, he literally HOVERS over the table, constantly probing for praise of the meal. In the past, my husband gave as much nurturing to me as I to him. Nurturing is a skill I am only fair at and worked hard to develop since we’ve been together. Now he sits at the computer and tries to get me to wait on him hand and foot.
Can you elaborate the problem without the added drama (contacting homeless shelters, etc.)?
<skipping drama
People grow apart. I believe it’s happened to us. It started going downhill about three years ago. We had a home business in the computer industry that we gave up on due to competition and being cheated by clients. I have health and emotional problems. He has health and emotional problems. Two years ago, I became quite ill and had to work hard to recover. My efforts have shown success. It appears the childish behavior escalated as my recovery progressed. During the recovery, I tried to be careful not to ignore him or our relationship. I tried to include him in my healing process. I set aside time for him. I am not alone in my observations. Other people confront him with his childish behavior. All he does is scream "F*** You" and run away. I love men. My definition of a man is a confident, strong human being who uses his male attributes as positive traits. I believe men and women have different assets, and they should complement one another. I’m so angry and overburdened by his clinging, I am ready to give up. Further questions will be answered to the best of my ability. No email, please, I have to keep this passworded and private. 1 Dumb Chick Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
Igor, The original poster mentioned that she was disabled. She didn’t mention any details, but perhaps that affects her ability to work. Melissa **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****
Response:
What exactly is he doing that is so childish? What does he say? Give worst examples if possible. (you dont have to) Who is the main breadwinner? How long have you been going to therapy? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1 Dumb Chick wrote:
He is a CHILD in a man’s body. What is there to gain by staying silly and childish?
Response:
I met a man over a decade ago. It seemed like we fell in love. We got married. I knew he had problems because he came from a dysfunctional family, but so what, so did I. In spite of his past, he seemed strong and capable. He is brillant. He was loyal, hardworking and caring. He had terrible relationships before and stated that he was ready to settle with one woman who he could trust. We had many common interests and the same sense of humor about life. He had faced the same adversities I had, actually he had faced worse things and survived them. Our sex life was great. I thought he was the kind of man I had been looking for. I thought we could grow together. I thought we understood each other in a world that can be cruel to those who grew up as strangers in their own homes and feel isolated from people who have led more fortunate lives. It has taken a long time to see the truth about my mate. Years have a way of revealing secrets. He is a CHILD in a man’s body. Look, all adults have their moments when they are childlike, and it’s not always a bad thing. Sometimes we whine or want to be taken care of by our mate. Sometimes we want comfort that is familiar from our past. I think a certain amount of that is normal. The man I thought I married is emotionally stuck at thirteen, the age at which his parents divorced. He was an only child whose father was distant and uncaring. His mother was an alcoholic and control freak. All of our parents are dead now, or I would have sent him home to mommy a long time ago. He is in his forties. I have to leave this man if I am going to survive. He drains the life out of me. I am disabled and do not have enough money to live on. I try to work but get too sick to continue. My family, never supportive to begin with, wants nothing to do with me. Because of my husband’s demeanor and my own shame in having trapped myself in this mess, I have no close friends. He knows how I feel. I tell him constantly. He knows that when I find the FIRST opportunity to leave him, I am GONE. This has made his whiny-clingy-temper-tantrum-good boy behavior even worse. I’ve had a separate bank account for years and tried to save enough money to leave him, though I never seem to save enough. I am a careful spender. The husband makes sure the bills get paid. Any extra money is spent on things we actually use, mostly to keep me from accumulating enough funds to leave him (his words). He does not hit me or blatantly abuse me in cruel ways, again so that I cannot turn to agencies to help me leave. I have tried everything in my area. We don’t have any kids, thank God. The only resources I have been able to find are homeless shelters. When I called them, I heard things like "this is no place for a woman like you"… lice, bugs, violence, rape, you name it. My last hope is to try to work for myself at home via the Internet. I have explained to him that my ultimate goal is to develop enough income for an attorney and relocation. This has INCREASED his childish behavior. This is my bed and I have to lie in it. All I wonder is why a person would not want to leave behind a childhood that was miserable in the first place. Why would someone think another person can make up for a past that cannot be made up for? I have a long way to go, but I have worked DAMNED HARD to put my childhood in the past and become a responsible adult. I did not get married to take care of some mother’s son who wants to stay stuck. What is there to gain by staying silly and childish? This man annoys the hell out of everyone he meets because of his clinging, silly, childlike behavior. Because he works hard, he is always employed, but gets fired all the time. I hardly ever go out in public with him anymore. I’m not interested in having an affair or getting into a relationship after I finally get a divorce. I fear I am scarred for life. Sometimes I think I want a MAN, and even think about finding one. I doubt if I could take the chance on another relationship. I go to counseling. The child tried counseling with me several times, but got terrified and ran away each time. Now he refuses any sort of counseling, either with me or by himself. He thinks the sole problem is that I "have turned mean" and "don’t love him anymore". I _don’t_love him anymore and I have stopped doing anything close to the mothering he so desperately wants. I’ve told him to go find someone who can do the job. Obviously, he can’t. I am sorry this went on so long. I feel so alone and tired. This situation is making my health problems worse by the day. I will keep trying until I find a way out of this situation. Today, I am filled with loneliness and frustration. I feel like I just had to tell someone, anyone. I know I am not alone, there are people who chose mates who wanted a parent and not a lover and are stuck with them. 1 REALLY DUMB Chick Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
It is intensely difficult to assess your situation unless you describe a bit more what you mean when you say "childish behavior". I have found that in some situations where women complain about their husband’s "childishness", that they are themselves coming from a position of over-maternalism, and I hear some of that in your post. Can you elaborate the problem without the added drama (contacting homeless shelters, etc.)? -Jeff
Response:
Just some random thoughts here… Was your husband always whining and child-like? If not, when did it start? Can you think of anything that could have triggered it? Maybe when the ’sparks’ went out? When life became routine? It sounds like he’s getting worse now because he’s afraid of abandonment (which he knows is forthcoming). He felt abandoned by his parents when they got divorced. He needs to learn to deal with his feelings, and counselling is the best way. Even more, he needs somebody to love him and be there for him. You need to really try to be that somebody right now. You don’t love him because of his childish behavior, he’s behaving childishly because you don’t love him anymore. Give it a try, try to get him some help and rekindle your love for him. You made vows, for better or for worse. You need to give it your best shot before leaving. Try loving him again, and treating him with warmth and kindness. You may be surprised at the man you see. Good luck, Melissa **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****
Response:
In article <7klncd$do…@nnrp1.deja.com
,
1 Dumb Chick <1dumbch…@my-deja.com
wrote: I am sorry this went on so long. I feel so alone and tired. This situation is making my health problems worse by the day. I will keep trying until I find a way out of this situation. Today, I am filled with loneliness and frustration. I feel like I just had to tell someone, anyone. I know I am not alone, there are people who chose mates who wanted a parent and not a lover and are stuck with them.
Chick, You must get out of this situation. You know that already. One thing to do is to stop telling your husband about your plans to leave. Obviously, it makes his behavior worse when you do that. Here are a couple of suggestions: 1. Sell off anything you own that is worth money (engagement and wedding rings come to mind, if they have any value) to make extra money. If your husband asks where certain household items went, explain that you are trying to declutter and that you have donated them. 2. Call the state bar and explain that you need a divorce attorney but you do not have a lot of money. If you can’t find the state bar in the phone book, call information and ask for "New York State Bar" or whatever state you are in. Just because you are disabled and you don’t have a lot of money doesn’t mean you can’t get out of this relationship. I wish you the best of luck and please keep posting. Let us know what is going on. We are here for you! Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
Response:
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