Posts belonging to Category 'Marquise Engagement Rings'

Accidentally Engaged????????????

Question:

I almost forgot: – Making fun of Pumpkinhead for having testicular cancer. : – )

Virgin, ballboi?  (Or is that ONE BALL boi? <snicker)

http://tinyurl.com/4gkpe

Response:

Ms Pnoopie Pnats wrote:

Lobsterboy wrote: "Rainier" <rainierba…@hotmail.com wrote

[snip]

Definetly, you’re not aware where you’re going. This is not gonna be another of your games, there’s real danger here. yes this isnt a game.although to plenty think it is. if you are really going to do this, both of you go to pre marital counseling.  I don’t think marriage means losing freedom if you pick the right person who allows you to be yourself and vice versa.

         If anyone needs pre-marital counseling it’s them (assuming it’s not more Usenet performance art). And I’m not trying to be mean. It’s just that it’s obvious that they need top get some stuff sorted out and in the open. August Pamplona — The waterfall in Java is not wet. – omegazero2003 on m.f.w. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dolores wrote:

Rainier wrote: Here’s  the abbreviated story. I punk my gf for our three month anniversary last Saturday night. We’re sitting on the zebra sofa at our favourite pub when I begin the set up. I tell her my parents were already married at this point in their relationship and that I inherited my father’s impetuousness. Then I unleash a series of double entendres and sheepishly admit I’m really nervous because I had never done this kind of thing before. Finally I bend down on one knee, tell her to close her eyes and put a ring box in her hand. She opens the box and finds a . . . AA Battery Inside! After three months I finally found a way to leave my extrovert gf speechless. After several moments she pieces the puzzle together. "You bought me a vibrator?" Indeed I did! She found the joke very amusing and promised to tell all her friends. We try the rabbit vibrator out later in the evening and it was well worth the $40 I spent on it. Afterwards she whispers in my ear, "I would have said yes." Now am I the speechless one. I always assumed my gf was an aspiring Ab Fab girl who would wind up as an inebriated, promiscous, middle-aged tart who wore too much make-up and bragged incessantly about her college glory days. Essentially the only difference between her current self and the 40 year-old version would be wrinkles, sagging tits and an extra stone or two on the frame. She never struck me as the marrying kind. Anyways we engage in some innocent pillow talk about where we’re going to live once we get married. Then I take her home, we play phone tag all week and I finally talk to her yesterday. She is all excited. And guess what? That innocent pillow talk was not so innocent after all. She told all her friends we’re engaged and getting married! I didn’t even propose but I already have two guys fighting to be my best man. It gets even more bizzarre. Today she calls me. She found an old ring while cleaning her room and asked if she can wear it and tell people it’s our engagement ring! Damn! I guess this is my comeuppance for compulsively scripting my life. I have become a sitcom character trapped in a story of mistaken identity. I have literally been thrust into an engagement I don’t even want. The weird thing is I feel like a stereotypical guy. I’m getting married.  There goes my freedom. Time for the old ball and chain. Yet what did I do with my 27 years of freedom? What am I losing by getting married? The opportunity to play Yahoo canasta in my underwear at 3 in the morning? Big fuckin’ deal! I’m going to play along. Though I’m kind of pissed that I got drafted into this engagement. I did want to do the whole "get down on one knee" traditional bit. How much should a guy spend on an engagement ring? Yesterday on the phone Rikki said: "You don’t have to get me a ring. I know what’s in your heart" which is female speak for "You better buy me a ring, you little bastard." Is $300 enough or will that make me look like a tightwad?

as long as it is a 1 carat marquise or round cut solitare set in yellow gold  simple, elegant, and classic. — ———————————————————————— Ms Pnoopie Pnats Usnet Legend http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ ———————————————————————— —————- ———————————————————————— —————

Response:

Hey, everyone. : ) I’ve been reading this NG for a few days and my bullshit sirens went off. : ) To all of the newbies out there who don’t know the story behind this poster: Sadi is a troll who goes out of her way to harass and antagonize innocent A.S.S.ers. In her short time here, she: – Spent several months lying about being a model to give herself an air of superiority over everyone. – Constantly harassed the male posters, putting them down because of their looks. – Created a video to entice someone into being her friend, only to say she set it up to humiliate the poster. – Admitted to taking joy in preying on the "weak and sexually abused". – Pulling pics from hotornot profiles and putting them in her version of the a.s.s. gallery, whether anyone wanted or not, even putting pics of people in who had specifically requested to be removed from the gallery. – Taking down her gallery (after her lie about being a model was exposed) and replacing the pics of A.S.S.ers with gaping assholes. If she seems like she’s trying to support you, it’s phony. If she seems like she’s trying to befriend you, it’s even phonier. Don’t trust her. Don’t believe her. Don’t argue with her. She is here, as her name so aptly conveys, to be Sadistic – nothing more.

Response:

Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia wrote:

Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com wrote in

news:GdqdnbXxmPthqM7fRVn- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

3…@comcast.com: jizzlob…@intergate.com wrote: Look bitch I don’t care how much you make or owe as long as you

pay

your share of the rent. I guess this is why marriage will never

agree

with me. Anyone who is planning on getting married should immediately move

to a

state that DOES NOT RECOGNIZE community property. Also, always keep seperate finances. Never go joint. You don’t want

to

spend the rest of your life fighting about money, and if you keep seperate finances you won’t have to. What if you want to buy a house?

Personally, I can’t ever imagine being in the financial position of being able to buy a house.

Response:

Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia <n…@newb.com

wrote in

news:Xns962EB1D4A85F5newbnewbcom@68.12.19.6:

It doesn’t have to be. So long as she is making timely payments her credit is in good standing. -phy Narrator: And here’s a man who claims to have actually met a woman

I can only blame it on posting past my bedtime. Why I assumed she was making timely payments is beyond me. I should have known better than to make that comment. -phy

Response:

Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com

wrote in news:GdqdnbXxmPthqM7fRVn-

3…@comcast.com:

jizzlob…@intergate.com wrote: Look bitch I don’t care how much you make or owe as long as you pay your share of the rent. I guess this is why marriage will never agree with me. Anyone who is planning on getting married should immediately move to a state that DOES NOT RECOGNIZE community property. Also, always keep seperate finances. Never go joint. You don’t want to spend the rest of your life fighting about money, and if you keep seperate finances you won’t have to.

You will still end up fighting about money when one person doesn’t pony up their share of the expenses. You are right about moving though. -phy

Response:

Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com

wrote in news:GdqdnbXxmPthqM7fRVn-

3…@comcast.com:

jizzlob…@intergate.com wrote: Look bitch I don’t care how much you make or owe as long as you pay your share of the rent. I guess this is why marriage will never agree with me. Anyone who is planning on getting married should immediately move to a state that DOES NOT RECOGNIZE community property. Also, always keep seperate finances. Never go joint. You don’t want to spend the rest of your life fighting about money, and if you keep seperate finances you won’t have to.

What if you want to buy a house? — The Morning-After Pill The FDA is deciding whether they will allow non-prescription sales of the morning-after pill Plan B. What do you think? Dana Conner Photographer    "Why not? The tequila responsible for getting me knocked up in the first place is sold over the counter." Jared Maldonado Telemarketer    "If this pill is sold over the counter, people will start, for the first time ever, having unprotected sex." Adrian Roy Systems Analyst         "It says in the Bible that the morning-after pill is wrong. I believe the passage is Pharmaceuticals 3:16." Ana Huff Musician        "Not for me, thanks. I’ve had a Dalkon Shield IUD in me for 30 years, and in me it’s gonna stay."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rainier wrote:

Here’s  the abbreviated story. I punk my gf for our three month anniversary last Saturday night. We’re sitting on the zebra sofa at our favourite pub when I begin the set up. I tell her my parents were already married at this point in their relationship and that I inherited my father’s impetuousness. Then I unleash a series of double entendres and sheepishly admit I’m really nervous because I had never done this kind of thing before. Finally I bend down on one knee, tell her to close her eyes and put a ring box in her hand. She opens the box and finds a . . . AA Battery Inside! After three months I finally found a way to leave my extrovert gf speechless. After several moments she pieces the puzzle together. "You bought me a vibrator?" Indeed I did! She found the joke very amusing and promised to tell all her friends. We try the rabbit vibrator out later in the evening and it was well worth the $40 I spent on it. Afterwards she whispers in my ear, "I would have said yes." Now am I the speechless one. I always assumed my gf was an aspiring Ab Fab girl who would wind up as an inebriated, promiscous, middle-aged tart who wore too much make-up and bragged incessantly about her college glory days. Essentially the only difference between her current self and the 40 year-old version would be wrinkles, sagging tits and an extra stone or two on the frame. She never struck me as the marrying kind. Anyways we engage in some innocent pillow talk about where we’re going to live once we get married. Then I take her home, we play phone tag all week and I finally talk to her yesterday. She is all excited. And guess what? That innocent pillow talk was not so innocent after all. She told all her friends we’re engaged and getting married! I didn’t even propose but I already have two guys fighting to be my best man. It gets even more bizzarre. Today she calls me. She found an old ring while cleaning her room and asked if she can wear it and tell people it’s our engagement ring! Damn! I guess this is my comeuppance for compulsively scripting my life. I have become a sitcom character trapped in a story of mistaken identity. I have literally been thrust into an engagement I don’t even want. The weird thing is I feel like a stereotypical guy. I’m getting married. There goes my freedom. Time for the old ball and chain. Yet what did I do with my 27 years of freedom? What am I losing by getting married? The opportunity to play Yahoo canasta in my underwear at 3 in the morning? Big fuckin’ deal! I’m going to play along. Though I’m kind of pissed that I got drafted into this engagement. I did want to do the whole "get down on one knee" traditional bit. How much should a guy spend on an engagement ring? Yesterday on the phone Rikki said: "You don’t have to get me a ring. I know what’s in your heart" which is female speak for "You better buy me a ring, you little bastard." Is $300 enough or will that make me look like a tightwad? I have the perfect scheme. For our 4 month anniversary I buy us a set of matching bowling balls. Rikki hates to bowl so she’ll just have to grin and bear it. Then when she sticks her finger in the hole, guess what she’ll find? Yep her legitimate engagement ring! The weird thing is I’m more excited about the bowling ball scheme than my impending nuptials. -rainier

Never joke about getting married or about having kids with your partner;   if you don’t mean to follow through, it’s just cruel, and it leads to the situation you now claim to be in. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lobsterboy wrote:

"Rainier" <rainierba…@hotmail.com wrote Here’s  the abbreviated story. I punk my gf for our three month anniversary last Saturday night. We’re sitting on the zebra sofa at our favourite pub when I begin the set up. I tell her my parents were already married at this point in their relationship and that I inherited my father’s impetuousness. Then I unleash a series of double entendres and sheepishly admit I’m really nervous because I had never done this kind of thing before. Finally I bend down on one knee, tell her to close her eyes and put a ring box in her hand. She opens the box and finds a . . . AA Battery Inside! LOL! That was a really good joke.

         Actually, I never understood the joke. Why is it that "Rikki" assumed that a AA battery indicated that Rainier had bought her a vibrator? There are hundreds of non sex toy type devices which use AA batteries. Why was it obvious that Rainier was trying to make a little joke out of buying a vibrator? There must be some context to this which Rainier has not chosen to reveal. [snip] August Pamplona — The waterfall in Java is not wet. – omegazero2003 on m.f.w. a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut Proud member of the reality-based community. The address in this message’s ‘From’ field, in accordance with individual.net’s TOS, is real. However, almost all messages reaching this address are deleted without human intervention. In other words, if you e-mail me there, I will not receive your message. To make sure that e-mail messages actually reach me, make sure that my e-mail address is not hot.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lobsterboy wrote:

"Rainier" <rainierba…@hotmail.com wrote Here’s  the abbreviated story. I punk my gf for our three month anniversary last Saturday night. We’re sitting on the zebra sofa at our favourite pub when I begin the set up. I tell her my parents were already married at this point in their relationship and that I inherited my father’s impetuousness. Then I unleash a series of double entendres and sheepishly admit I’m really nervous because I had never done this kind of thing before. Finally I bend down on one knee, tell her to close her eyes and put a ring box in her hand. She opens the box and finds a . . . AA Battery Inside! LOL! That was a really good joke. She is all excited. And guess what? That innocent pillow talk was not so innocent after all. She told all her friends we’re engaged and getting married! I didn’t even propose but I already have two guys fighting to be my best man. It gets even more bizzarre. Today she calls me. She found an old ring while cleaning her room and asked if she can wear it and tell people it’s our engagement ring! Damn! I guess this is my comeuppance for compulsively scripting my life. I have become a sitcom character trapped in a story of mistaken identity. I have literally been thrust into an engagement I don’t even want. That’s not a joke… The weird thing is I feel like a stereotypical guy. I’m getting married.  There goes my freedom. Time for the old ball and chain. Yet what did I do with my 27 years of freedom? What am I losing by getting married? The opportunity to play Yahoo canasta in my underwear at 3 in the morning? Big fuckin’ deal! I’m going to play along. Though I’m kind of pissed that I got drafted into this engagement. I did want to do the whole "get down on one knee" traditional bit. From this I’ve got the impression that you haven’t tought for more than a minute all what implies getting married; legally, financially, the impact on your lifestyle. It seems you don’t value much your freedom, but don’t you know that we don’t value some things until we lose them?. I have the perfect scheme. For our 4 month anniversary I buy us a set of matching bowling balls. Rikki hates to bowl so she’ll just have to grin and bear it. Then when she sticks her finger in the hole, guess what she’ll find? Yep her legitimate engagement ring! That’s fun too, but… The weird thing is I’m more excited about the bowling ball scheme than my impending nuptials. Definetly, you’re not aware where you’re going. This is not gonna be another of your games, there’s real danger here.

yes this isnt a game.although to plenty think it is. if you are really going to do this, both of you go to pre marital counseling.  I don’t think marriage means losing freedom if you pick the right person who allows you to be yourself and vice versa. — ———————————————————————— Ms Pnoopie Pnats Usnet Legend http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ ———————————————————————— —————- ———————————————————————— —————

Response:

jizzlob…@intergate.com wrote:

Look bitch I don’t care how much you make or owe as long as you pay your share of the rent. I guess this is why marriage will never agree with me.

Anyone who is planning on getting married should immediately move to a state that DOES NOT RECOGNIZE community property. Also, always keep seperate finances. Never go joint. You don’t want to spend the rest of your life fighting about money, and if you keep seperate finances you won’t have to. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wilson wrote:

READ THIS BEFORE GETTING MARRIED: "Were a young man to ask me, "To marry perchance, or remain forever single?" I would, given the hostile circumstances today of law and love, urge caution. "Marriage is a commitment of several years of your life, plus child support," I would say. "Do not make it rashly." The question is simply, "Why marry?" As a young man full of dangerous steroids, your answer will probably be, "Ah, because her hair is like corn silk under an August moon; her lips are as rubies and her teeth, pearls; and her smile would make a dead man cry." This amounts to, "I’m horny," with elaborations. It is as it ought to be. The race continues because maidens are glorious, and striplings both desperate and unwise. Note, incidentally, that by the time October rolls around, corn silk is shriveled and brown. Why marry, indeed? In times past, marriage occasionally made sense. Life on a farm required two people, a woman to work herself ragged in the cabin while the man carried heavy lumpish things and shot Indians. Later, come suburbia, the man did something tedious in an office and the woman did two hours housework and stayed bored for six. It worked, tolerably. In the Fifties, nobody expected much of life. It generally met their expectations. And there was sex, though not enough of it — the scarcity being the propellant behind matrimony. Back then, before the miracle of feminism, women had not yet commoditized themselves. A lad had to pop the question before he got laid regular. Women controlled the carnal economy and, in a world that was going to be boring anyway, that was probably a good thing. At least kids had parents. Times change. Some advice to young fellows setting forth: First, forget that her lips are sweet as honeydew melon (though not, of course, green). It doesn’t last. One of nature’s more disagreeable tricks is that while men are far uglier than women, they age better. Remember this. It is useful to reflect in moments of unguided passion that, beneath the skin, we are all wet bags of unpleasant organs. Soon you will be a balding sofa ornament and she will look like a fireplug with cellulite. Once the packaging deteriorates, there had better be something to get you through the next thirty years. Usually there isn’t. Prospects have improved for the single of both genders. Sex is nowadays always available. If you don’t marry Moon Pie, which would be wise, you may get another chance when she comes back on the market with the first wave of divorcees. It’s never now-or-never. Getting older doesn’t diminish your opportunities. As you gain experience, you will recognize the tides, the eddies, the whirlpools of coupling — the urgency of the biological clock, the lunacy of menopause. Men by comparison embody a wonderful clod-like simplicity. As you ponder snuggling forever with Moon Pie, compare the lives of your bachelor and your married friends. The bachelors come and go as the mood strikes them, order their apartments with squalid abandon, drive Miatas or Harleys if they choose, and live in such pleasant dissolution as is consonant with continued employment. The married guy lives in a vast echoing mortgage beyond his means, drives sensible cars he doesn’t like, and loses his old friends because he isn’t allowed to hang out with them. Self-help books to the contrary, marriage does not rest on compromises, but on concessions. You will make all of them. Perhaps it doesn’t have to be this way. But it is this way. Moon Pie has only one reason for marriage: to get her legal hooks into you. She doesn’t think of it in these terms, yet, and she has no evil intentions. She just wants a nice quiet home in the remote suburbs where she can live uneventfully, raise progeny, and keep her eye on you. If you think surveillance isn’t part of the contract, try going out late with your old buddies. Marriage is an institution founded on mistrust. If she thought you would stick around if not compelled, she wouldn’t need marriage. She wants monogamy, at least for you and, with some frequency, for herself. She knows viscerally that you would prefer the amorous insouciance of an oversexed alley cat. You know it consciously. Marriage exists to control the male, until recently a good idea. Now, however, she can support herself, and doesn’t need protection. She doesn’t need you, or you, her. She will, however, want to have children. Women do. At which point, God help you. Given the schools, drugs, latch-keyism consequent first to working parents and then to divorce, and the cultural pressure on children to be slatterns and dope-dealers, reproduction is a gamble. You may not even particularly like them, or they, you. Nobody talks about this, but how many people do you know who hardly talk to their grown children? And you’ve just tied yourself into twenty years of raising them. The moment Junior enters wherever it is that we are, Moon Pie will have you screwed to the wall. She won’t think of it this way, yet. She’ll be delighted with the cooing bundle of joy, his little fingers, her little toes, etc. But divorce comes. The chances are two to one that she will file: Women are more eager than men to enter marriage, and more eager to leave it — with the kids, the house, and the child support. It won’t be amicable, not after seven years. You will be astonished at how ruthless she will be, how well she knows the law, and how utterly hostile to divorcing fathers the law is. You don’t understand how bad the divorce courts are. You probably don’t know what "imputed income" is. You think that "joint custody" means "joint custody." Think again. Quite possibly you will have to support her while she moves with your kids to Fukuoka with an Air Force colonel she met in a meat bar. In short, marriage often means turning twenty-five years of your life into smoking wreckage. Yes, happy marriages exist (I personally know of one) and there are the somnolent marriages of habitual contentment or, perhaps, of quiet resignation. But the odds aren’t good. Permit me an heretical thought. In an age when neither sex economically needs the other, in which women do not need protection from wild bears and marauding savages, not in the suburbs anyway, perhaps marriage doesn’t make sense, at least for men. The divorce courts remove all doubt. A young fellow might do well to stay single, keep his DNA to himself, pick such flowers as he might find along the way, and live his life as he likes. -Fred Reed, 2002

Fred Reed is, apparently, a plagiarist. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

Here’s  the abbreviated story. I punk my gf for our three month anniversary last Saturday night. We’re sitting on the zebra sofa at our favourite pub when I begin the set up. I tell her my parents were already married at this point in their relationship and that I inherited my father’s impetuousness. Then I unleash a series of double entendres and sheepishly admit I’m really nervous because I had never done this kind of thing before. Finally I bend down on one knee, tell her to close her eyes and put a ring box in her hand. She opens the box and finds a . . . AA Battery Inside! After three months I finally found a way to leave my extrovert gf speechless. After several moments she pieces the puzzle together. "You bought me a vibrator?" Indeed I did! She found the joke very amusing and promised to tell all her friends. We try the rabbit vibrator out later in the evening and it was well worth the $40 I spent on it. Afterwards she whispers in my ear, "I would have said yes." Now am I the speechless one. I always assumed my gf was an aspiring Ab Fab girl who would wind up as an inebriated, promiscous, middle-aged tart who wore too much make-up and bragged incessantly about her college glory days. Essentially the only difference between her current self and the 40 year-old version would be wrinkles, sagging tits and an extra stone or two on the frame. She never struck me as the marrying kind. Anyways we engage in some innocent pillow talk about where we’re going to live once we get married. Then I take her home, we play phone tag all week and I finally talk to her yesterday. She is all excited. And guess what? That innocent pillow talk was not so innocent after all. She told all her friends we’re engaged and getting married! I didn’t even propose but I already have two guys fighting to be my best man. It gets even more bizzarre. Today she calls me. She found an old ring while cleaning her room and asked if she can wear it and tell people it’s our engagement ring! Damn! I guess this is my comeuppance for compulsively scripting my life. I have become a sitcom character trapped in a story of mistaken identity. I have literally been thrust into an engagement I don’t even want. The weird thing is I feel like a stereotypical guy. I’m getting married. There goes my freedom. Time for the old ball and chain. Yet what did I do with my 27 years of freedom? What am I losing by getting married? The opportunity to play Yahoo canasta in my underwear at 3 in the morning? Big fuckin’ deal! I’m going to play along. Though I’m kind of pissed that I got drafted into this engagement. I did want to do the whole "get down on one knee" traditional bit. How much should a guy spend on an engagement ring? Yesterday on the phone Rikki said: "You don’t have to get me a ring. I know what’s in your heart" which is female speak for "You better buy me a ring, you little bastard." Is $300 enough or will that make me look like a tightwad? I have the perfect scheme. For our 4 month anniversary I buy us a set of matching bowling balls. Rikki hates to bowl so she’ll just have to grin and bear it. Then when she sticks her finger in the hole, guess what she’ll find? Yep her legitimate engagement ring! The weird thing is I’m more excited about the bowling ball scheme than my impending nuptials. -rainier

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 <delurk

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:01:23 -0400, "Rainier" <rainierba…@hotmail.com

wrote in post:

<snip bs

Rainier, I didn’t think you could top your IceGrrl and RinkBoi stories, but you did. Teacher gives you A+ for creative writing, D for believability and D- for "punking" your pals on ASS. :-/ Perhaps you and Mitz should hook up. Your latest Pinocchio and his laughable "reverse sex-change surgery" story belong in The ASS Hall of Shame ™. </delurk

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQlE6WBHSUETdEJzmEQL6DACg5YxwMIodyB3AzvfAmldWxCoiCsYAnA65 CzDps4960eHAnG0xz2EnvliT =/1Qc —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– — Sadi PGP key ID: 0xDD109CE6 (sxysadi)

Response:

Hardpan <hard…@yahoo.com

wrote in

news:ts725196tkoc3hahb0ec31eu6fggndbjd6@4ax.com:

Amen to that !!!!

I hate to be cynical but it is true. The only worse thing is to be single and alone all your life. -phy

Response:

Hardpan <hard…@yahoo.com

wrote in

news:b7o151t3481750p3f06oa4ufbldfin37qm@4ax.com:

Someone get that man a blindfold and a cigarette ! He’s a goner <bg!

My  advice is that he needs to run a credit check on the woman before he makes any kind of commitment. Also, Ranier, it is never too late to back out until you say "I do". It isn’t too late then either, just a whole lot more expensive. -phy

Response:

Sadi <sxys…@gmail.com.INVALID

wrote in

news:1112619680.230564da18266fda63eca5987d7fa85d@meganetnews2:

Rainier, I didn’t think you could top your IceGrrl and RinkBoi stories, but you did.

Practice makes perfect. -phy

Response:

phy wrote:

My  advice is that he needs to run a credit     check on the woman

before he

makes any kind of commitment.

No need for that. She’s already told me she has $100,000 worth of private school debts to pay off so I assume her credit rating is in the crapper. -rainier

Response:

"Rainier" <rainierba…@hotmail.com

wrote in

news:4e58c1e7bbae8dbb9ac362f5b4604857@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com:

No need for that. She’s already told me she has $100,000 worth of private school debts to pay off so I assume her credit rating is in the crapper. -rainier

It doesn’t have to be. So long as she is making timely payments her credit is in good standing. -phy

Response:

phy <phy…@yahoo.com

wrote in

news:Xns962EBFE7AE2D8phy00xyahoocom@69.28.186.121: > "Rainier" <rainierba…@hotmail.com

wrote in

> news:4e58c1e7bbae8dbb9ac362f5b4604857@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com: >> No need for that. She’s already told me she has $100,000 worth of >> private school debts to pay off so I assume her credit rating is in >> the crapper. >> -rainier > It doesn’t have to be. So long as she is making timely payments her > credit is in good standing. > -phy

Narrator: And here’s a man who claims to have actually met a woman Man (who is obviously Crow T. Robot): And then I met this woman…and… Narrator: And then what happened, Sir? Man: She *gasp* married me! Narrator: Did you have any children? Man: I-I-don’t know! — "Please enjoy a fish anus." –Blood Waters of Dr. Z. "There is no way out of here.  There is no way out." -Manos IV: Torgo Goes To Baghdad.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -phy wrote:

"Rainier" <rainierba…@hotmail.com wrote in news:4e58c1e7bbae8dbb9ac362f5b4604857@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com: No need for that. She’s already told me she has $100,000 worth of

private

school debts to pay off so I assume her credit rating is in the

crapper.

-rainier It doesn’t have to be. So long as she is making timely payments her

credit

is in good standing. -phy

Look bitch I don’t care how much you make or owe as long as you pay your share of the rent. I guess this is why marriage will never agree with me.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 If you’re not careful, Rainier, you’ll end up accidentally *married*. You might go to the court to inquire about marriage licenses, then find that that day is the last day before the fee triples, so you seduce yourself into legally marrying that day, when all you really wanted was the licence.  That could easily happen if you suddenly found out that the licence expires before the official marriage date, so you decide to get it over with and marry right there so you don’t have to come back again later at great inconvenience. Hey, Rainier, I bet you could even use that scenario to sweep Rikki off her feet – you could work this into a scheme to abduct her to your (secret) honeymoon *before* the actual wedding.  In fact, you could feign slightly "cold feet" as part of your elaborate ruse to maintain your poker face even as all the wedding guests "happen to" be at the resort too.  (But careful that you don’t overdo the cold feet, or she might believe it a bit too much and bail.) Not that I would ever plant ideas for such choreography in your masterfully manipulative mind, Rainier. Anyway, now that you are accidentally engaged as you say, are you finding that all kinds of random people are coming out of the woodworks to congratulate you, whilst they were nowhere to be seen when you were desperately lonely and single?  Those people who so love asking, "Why, Rainier!  Are you STILL single???"  (I wonder if they will now start asking, "Are you STILL engaged?" LOL.) Don’t sweat it – many of them probably just never "felt right" about talking to you about your singleness – now that you’re engaged they feel "safe" talking to you about it.  You can tell yourself they were all secretly rooting for you before from their little hideouts. Oh, before I forget, congratulations! [Except, if "Rainier" is really real I doubt how enthusiastic he is about this accidental engagement.  I wonder if Rikki isn't just exacting revenge for all the mindgames?  Yeah, tell yourself that - it's just a mindgame.  She took your AA battery theater performance and ran with it.  Hey, wouldn't your creative writing class just *love* the drama of a bride calling off the wedding at the altar?  Or how about an objection to the marriage from an estranged husband bursting through the church doors at the last minute?] —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQFCUnBw/FmLrNfLpjMRAvpjAJ4lW3RyBG6IQssK4cuQjt9yepqD5wCcChc5 iC86dzMYMeJp3Qyqj942XDs= =fOpQ —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

"Rainier" <rainierba…@hotmail.com

wrote Here’s  the abbreviated story. I punk my gf for our three month anniversary last Saturday night. We’re sitting on the zebra sofa at our favourite pub when I begin the set up. I tell her my parents were already married at this point in their relationship and that I inherited my father’s impetuousness. Then I unleash a series of double entendres and sheepishly admit I’m really nervous because I had never done this kind of thing before. Finally I bend down on one knee, tell her to close her eyes and put a ring box in her hand. She opens the box and finds a . . . AA Battery Inside!

LOL! That was a really good joke.

She is all excited. And guess what? That innocent pillow talk was not so innocent after all. She told all her friends we’re engaged and getting married! I didn’t even propose but I already have two guys fighting to be my best man. It gets even more bizzarre. Today she calls me. She found an old ring while cleaning her room and asked if she can wear it and tell people it’s our engagement ring! Damn! I guess this is my comeuppance for compulsively scripting my life. I have become a sitcom character trapped in a story of mistaken identity. I have literally been thrust into an engagement I don’t even want.

That’s not a joke…

The weird thing is I feel like a stereotypical guy. I’m getting married. There goes my freedom. Time for the old ball and chain. Yet what did I do with my 27 years of freedom? What am I losing by getting married? The opportunity to play Yahoo canasta in my underwear at 3 in the morning? Big fuckin’ deal! I’m going to play along. Though I’m kind of pissed that I got drafted into this engagement. I did want to do the whole "get down on one knee" traditional bit.

From this I’ve got the impression that you haven’t tought for more than a minute all what implies getting married; legally, financially, the impact on your lifestyle. It seems you don’t value much your freedom, but don’t you know that we don’t value some things until we lose them?.

I have the perfect scheme. For our 4 month anniversary I buy us a set of matching bowling balls. Rikki hates to bowl so she’ll just have to grin and bear it. Then when she sticks her finger in the hole, guess what she’ll find? Yep her legitimate engagement ring!

That’s fun too, but…

The weird thing is I’m more excited about the bowling ball scheme than my impending nuptials.

Definetly, you’re not aware where you’re going. This is not gonna be another of your games, there’s real danger here. Read well the article  Wilson posted, and think carefully about what you’re about to do. You still have time to stop it.

Response:

READ THIS BEFORE GETTING MARRIED: "Were a young man to ask me, "To marry perchance, or remain forever single?" I would, given the hostile circumstances today of law and love, urge caution. "Marriage is a commitment of several years of your life, plus child support," I would say. "Do not make it rashly." The question is simply, "Why marry?" As a young man full of dangerous steroids, your answer will probably be, "Ah, because her hair is like corn silk under an August moon; her lips are as rubies and her teeth, pearls; and her smile would make a dead man cry." This amounts to, "I’m horny," with elaborations. It is as it ought to be. The race continues because maidens are glorious, and striplings both desperate and unwise. Note, incidentally, that by the time October rolls around, corn silk is shriveled and brown. Why marry, indeed? In times past, marriage occasionally made sense. Life on a farm required two people, a woman to work herself ragged in the cabin while the man carried heavy lumpish things and shot Indians. Later, come suburbia, the man did something tedious in an office and the woman did two hours housework and stayed bored for six. It worked, tolerably. In the Fifties, nobody expected much of life. It generally met their expectations. And there was sex, though not enough of it — the scarcity being the propellant behind matrimony. Back then, before the miracle of feminism, women had not yet commoditized themselves. A lad had to pop the question before he got laid regular. Women controlled the carnal economy and, in a world that was going to be boring anyway, that was probably a good thing. At least kids had parents. Times change. Some advice to young fellows setting forth: First, forget that her lips are sweet as honeydew melon (though not, of course, green). It doesn’t last. One of nature’s more disagreeable tricks is that while men are far uglier than women, they age better. Remember this. It is useful to reflect in moments of unguided passion that, beneath the skin, we are all wet bags of unpleasant organs. Soon you will be a balding sofa ornament and she will look like a fireplug with cellulite. Once the packaging deteriorates, there had better be something to get you through the next thirty years. Usually there isn’t. Prospects have improved for the single of both genders. Sex is nowadays always available. If you don’t marry Moon Pie, which would be wise, you may get another chance when she comes back on the market with the first wave of divorcees. It’s never now-or-never. Getting older doesn’t diminish your opportunities. As you gain experience, you will recognize the tides, the eddies, the whirlpools of coupling — the urgency of the biological clock, the lunacy of menopause. Men by comparison embody a wonderful clod-like simplicity. As you ponder snuggling forever with Moon Pie, compare the lives of your bachelor and your married friends. The bachelors come and go as the mood strikes them, order their apartments with squalid abandon, drive Miatas or Harleys if they choose, and live in such pleasant dissolution as is consonant with continued employment. The married guy lives in a vast echoing mortgage beyond his means, drives sensible cars he doesn’t like, and loses his old friends because he isn’t allowed to hang out with them. Self-help books to the contrary, marriage does not rest on compromises, but on concessions. You will make all of them. Perhaps it doesn’t have to be this way. But it is this way. Moon Pie has only one reason for marriage: to get her legal hooks into you. She doesn’t think of it in these terms, yet, and she has no evil intentions. She just wants a nice quiet home in the remote suburbs where she can live uneventfully, raise progeny, and keep her eye on you. If you think surveillance isn’t part of the contract, try going out late with your old buddies. Marriage is an institution founded on mistrust. If she thought you would stick around if not compelled, she wouldn’t need marriage. She wants monogamy, at least for you and, with some frequency, for herself. She knows viscerally that you would prefer the amorous insouciance of an oversexed alley cat. You know it consciously. Marriage exists to control the male, until recently a good idea. Now, however, she can support herself, and doesn’t need protection. She doesn’t need you, or you, her. She will, however, want to have children. Women do. At which point, God help you. Given the schools, drugs, latch-keyism consequent first to working parents and then to divorce, and the cultural pressure on children to be slatterns and dope-dealers, reproduction is a gamble. You may not even particularly like them, or they, you. Nobody talks about this, but how many people do you know who hardly talk to their grown children? And you’ve just tied yourself into twenty years of raising them. The moment Junior enters wherever it is that we are, Moon Pie will have you screwed to the wall. She won’t think of it this way, yet. She’ll be delighted with the cooing bundle of joy, his little fingers, her little toes, etc. But divorce comes. The chances are two to one that she will file: Women are more eager than men to enter marriage, and more eager to leave it — with the kids, the house, and the child support. It won’t be amicable, not after seven years. You will be astonished at how ruthless she will be, how well she knows the law, and how utterly hostile to divorcing fathers the law is. You don’t understand how bad the divorce courts are. You probably don’t know what "imputed income" is. You think that "joint custody" means "joint custody." Think again. Quite possibly you will have to support her while she moves with your kids to Fukuoka with an Air Force colonel she met in a meat bar. In short, marriage often means turning twenty-five years of your life into smoking wreckage. Yes, happy marriages exist (I personally know of one) and there are the somnolent marriages of habitual contentment or, perhaps, of quiet resignation. But the odds aren’t good. Permit me an heretical thought. In an age when neither sex economically needs the other, in which women do not need protection from wild bears and marauding savages, not in the suburbs anyway, perhaps marriage doesn’t make sense, at least for men. The divorce courts remove all doubt. A young fellow might do well to stay single, keep his DNA to himself, pick such flowers as he might find along the way, and live his life as he likes. -Fred Reed, 2002

Response:

Shopping for Japanese stuff in Japan, but where?

Question:

I’m in Japan right now and have just extended my stay to be here another 3 weeks,so 6 weeks in total before I leave! I’d like to bring home some memories of this country, but I’m not sure where to get hold of it: – A "Yukata" for me and my girlfriend. How much do they usually cost, and where are they sold? – A "Go" game. As far as I know, this is more or less the same game as "Othello", but with fancier "stones" etc. I saw someone play it on TV here, and a game set like that would be a nice souvenir. Are they expensive? Where can I buy them? -A "tea set" for enjoying Japanese tea: a teapot, cups etc. Where to buy and how much would it cost? Anything else worth buying while here which I can’t get elsewhere? Hallvard

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in Japan right now and have just extended my stay to be here another 3 weeks,so 6 weeks in total before I leave! I’d like to bring home some memories of this country, but I’m not sure where to get hold of it: – A "Yukata" for me and my girlfriend. How much do they usually cost, and where are they sold? – A "Go" game. As far as I know, this is more or less the same game as "Othello", but with fancier "stones" etc. I saw someone play it on TV here, and a game set like that would be a nice souvenir. Are they expensive? Where can I buy them? -A "tea set" for enjoying Japanese tea: a teapot, cups etc. Where to buy and how much would it cost? Anything else worth buying while here which I can’t get elsewhere?

You could consider a used or new kimono, which can be used as a decoration, framed, or put on the wall etc. Used may net you a bargain, as the Japanese don’t like to buy used things. http://www.marquise.de/en/ethno/japan/buy.shtml I can’t get out of the Tokyu Hands store in Shibuya without buying an armload of gadgets. Besides all the international luxury goods that all the huge department stores (Mitsukoshi, Matsuzakaya etc.) have there are also interesting goods lurking off the main floor (and good restaurant floors). You could pick up a Japanese flag (I’m not sure, but try stationery stores). Best regards, Spehro Pefhany — "it’s the network…"                          "The Journey is the reward" Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Response:

I’d like to bring home some memories of this country, but I’m not sure where to get hold of it:

Most of these things should be available at a regular department store. Yukatas are for summer wear, so it might be a bit early yet. If you are in Tokyo, try the Laox Duty Free store in Akihabara. One floor near the top has loads of gaudy souvenirs that are designed to appeal to foreigners: silk "kimonos", ninja swords, kamikaze headbands, kanji T-shirts, you name it. ;-) — Dave Fossett Saitama, Japan

Response:

I’m in Japan right now and have just extended my stay to be here another 3 weeks,so 6 weeks in total before I leave! I’d like to bring home some memories of this country, but I’m not sure where to get hold of it: – A "Yukata" for me and my girlfriend. How much do they usually cost, and where are they sold?

10000 yen?  Try Asakusa in Tokyo or Kamakura, both of which have loads of traditional craft shops. – A "Go" game. As far as I know, this is more or less the same game as "Othello", but with fancier "stones" etc. I saw someone play it on TV here, and a game set like that would be a nice souvenir. Are they expensive? Where can I buy them?

Not expensive, but no idea where to buy it.  It’s actually a Chinese game – if you want a Japanese game you might look for "shogi". -A "tea set" for enjoying Japanese tea: a teapot, cups etc. Where to buy and how much would it cost?

Try Asakusa or Kamakura.  As a last resort you can find them (and loads of other souveniers) in the "Oriental Bazaar" on Tokyo’s Omotesando near Meiji-Jingumae Station, but they’ll be more expensive there. Anything else worth buying while here which I can’t get elsewhere?

Some ideas: Sake. Japanese scroll paintings. Anime or manga. T-shirts with ridiculous English sayings.

Response:

I’m in Japan right now and have just extended my stay to be here another 3 weeks,so 6 weeks in total before I leave! I’d like to bring home some memories of this country, but I’m not sure where to get hold of it: – A "Yukata" for me and my girlfriend. How much do they usually cost, and where are they sold?

Lots of stores will sell these. If you’re still in Kobe, go to Motomachi station, exit and turn right (towards Kobe station). There’s a shopping arcade of sorts under the tracks that extends most of the way to Kobe station. There used to be a good selection of things here, including stores that sold new and used Kimonos, new knick knacks (sp), trinkets, antiques, used electronics, etc. I think you’ll find a good many things to buy there. – A "Go" game. As far as I know, this is more or less the same game as "Othello", but with fancier "stones" etc. I saw someone play it on TV here, and a game set like that would be a nice souvenir. Are they expensive? Where can I buy them?

You can buy in a major store. Tokyu Hands (a chain store, fairly large) should have a Go set. -A "tea set" for enjoying Japanese tea: a teapot, cups etc. Where to buy and how much would it cost?

Tokyu Hands might have this as well. Again, if you’re still in Kobe, from Motomachi station walk south (towards the ocean) and enter the large shopping arcade that parallels China Town. After you enter the arcade there used to be a store on the right that sells ceramics and stuff. If you feel up for the walk, start out from Sannomiya station’s shopping arcade (extends, more or less, to Motomachi and beyond); there’s a main arcade and a smaller one just to the south; lots of shops here and many will have what you need. Anything else worth buying while here which I can’t get elsewhere?

Personally I think a neat souvenier would be something from the dairy farm on Mt. Rokko; not sure what they have, though; despite living close to it I never went. John W.

Response:

– A "Go" game. As far as I know, this is more or less the same game as "Othello", but with fancier "stones" etc. I saw someone play it on TV here, and a game set like that would be a nice souvenir. Are they expensive? Where can I buy them?

An authentic set, like the one you saw on TV, would be quite expensive.  The board is a solid block of wood.  How are you going to carry it back home? If you are going to buy a tall board make sure you buy the right stones.  Black shells are made of clay slate, white stones are made of clam shells.  Ask for "nachi-guro and hamaguri". -A "tea set" for enjoying Japanese tea: a teapot, cups etc. Where to buy and how much would it cost?

Some regions that produce fine pottery: Arita, Imari, Hagi, Kurashiki (Bizen), Kyoto (Kiyomizu), Mashiko. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anything else worth buying while here which I can’t get elsewhere?

Response:

MU-2 ownership experience?

Question:

Thanks for the scoop. -Nathan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From a legal standpoint there is an icing AD which requires a lot of equipment that none of the airplanes have (or need).  It consists of an ice detector, trim-in-motion sensor and and automatic autopilot disconnect. There is also an AMOC (Alternate Method of Compliance) approved by the FAA which requires satisfactory training at either Reese Howell’s school or Simcom.   Your statement makes it sound like the training is mandatory.  I am curious why.  Obviously, there are safety reasons to go, but if you don’t have insurance I didn’t think the FAA made you. Is this a type rating thing?  Driven by what?  Max weight over 12,500? Turbine engines?  Service ceiling? Inquiring piston drivers want to know… -Nathan

Response:

The only places that training is availible are TN and FL.

I live about 3 car hours from Smyrna, TN where there is both an MU-2 shop and training center.  So I have proximity to those resources. The big items to check are engines, props, windshields and windows, air cycle machine and boots.  If these things are in good condition you shouldn’t have any huge disasters.

I’m trying to reconcile this statement with your maintenance figures below. In the 1200 hours over 5 1/2 years that  I have owned/flown MU-2s I have spent $178,000 Fuel $26,000 Training $45,000 Insurance $417,000 Maitenance $48,000 Supplies $42,000 Hanger $5,000 Tools

Okay, very useful information.  For an airplane with a reputation for not breaking down, this seems like a lot of money to keep it flying 1200 hours.  Totals $761K or about $140K/year to fly. I’m curious about the $417K for maintenance.  Unless you’ve done engine overhauls or had bad hot section inspections, how could you get to that figure?  It feels like you should be able to replace everything in the airplane for that.    At almost $350 per hour for maintenance (not counting "supplies"), I’m stunned.    That is not the overall reputation the airplane has regarding maintenance. Cost per mile (assuming an average block speed of 300 MPH, consistent with climb, headwinds, etc) works out to $2.12 per mile.  This is consistent with the cost per mile of smaller jets like the CJ1.  If they really can produce a jet that operates near $1/mile, that would change the world! Basically, if your numbers are correct, they are about 50-60% over what my research led me to believe.  If that’s so, then an MU-2 is just out of reach for me now. Thanks for your guidance. — Mike Ciholas                            (812) 476-2721 x101 CIHOLAS Enterprises                     (812) 476-2881 fax Evansville, IN 47713                    http://www.ciholas.com

Response:

Your statement makes it sound like the training is mandatory.  I am curious why.  Obviously, there are safety reasons to go, but if you don’t have insurance I didn’t think the FAA made you.

I think he meant its pretty much *necessary* for safely flying this class of equipment…

Response:

Okay, very useful information.  For an airplane with a reputation for not breaking down, this seems like a lot of money to keep it flying 1200 hours.  Totals $761K or about $140K/year to fly.

I have a friend with a Solitare.  What others have said about the training is absolutely true.  You will be dangerous in it without the training.  One acquaintence from long ago lasted about 20 hours in theirs.  At the time, the need for training wasn’t fully understood.  On the other hand, it’s a hell of an airplane… he routinely kept his at a 2200′ strip in Canada. This airplane has 1000 hp/side.  Yet if you mismanage an engine out, you can get in a situation where you can’t climb.  This is because the roll control is by spoiler… the ailerons are actually the trim tabs.  So if you control adverse yaw with the stick the drag goes up and you are coming down. The more affordable ones have less horsepower.  They cruise in the low 20s where the ice can be pretty bad. You must act like a professional to fly it safely.  (You may grin during the time, however).  Climbing thru 15,000 feet at Vy of 196 knots at 2000′/min is addicting.  It’s a real hot rod.  An introduction to cruising at red-line! The engines have long tbo, etc.  But you will get blindsided by all sorts of stuff.  Like new fuel pump $10+K.  When it fails, you have no choice but to replace it whereever whenever.  You need to have ready access to the 10K. My friend didn’t wince at this.  Windshield, many thousands.  He had the problem that the metallic paint stripes on his were generating static discharge at cruise speed and frapping all the radios.  That took a lot to figure out.  A big prop AD costed more than the price of a good piston single. He spent thousands getting an intermittent out of the very excellent spz500 autopilot.  The feds will demand a progressive maintenance plan of some sort… one does not "annual" such an airplane.  Of course, the shop rates will be higher.  That’s to amortize stuff like the monstor cabin leak testing setup that they have at International Jet in Tulsa.  It’s a different world.  You eat up traffic like nobody’s business, so you want TCAS, etc.  $$$$.  Be ready. In fact, if the idea of standing there & flushing $100 bills down the can one at a time causes any emotional response from you, you are not a candidate for an airplane like this. Bill Hale

Response:

My dads good friend is putting a glass panel in his MU-2B. I think it is going to turn out very good. I have a few hours in it, only in the right seat though. They are very fast. They repainted the bird and they got 15knts in cruise out of it. His pilot has 7000+ hours in a few types of the MU-2. He flew the IN & OUT executives in theres. Sad story what happend to them going it KSNA in a lear i think it was. I would have to say they are one of the nice turboprops out there. Lots better then the KingAir by far. Stay up on training, this plane can get ahead of you real quick. I know you can go to Simcom and Flight safety for the MU-2. I talked to a guy from Flight safety about the MU-2 and he said the are a pile of crap. The only reason they got such a bad rap is Hot Shot Pilots think they can fly anything, then they hop in one of these and crash them. They are a nice plane and you should have fun with it. Tony N8389P *** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com *** Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.

Response:

The only places that training is availible are TN and FL. I live about 3 car hours from Smyrna, TN where there is both an MU-2 shop and training center.  So I have proximity to those resources.

You are lucky!  I will be flying 2017nm on thursday to get to Simcom. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The big items to check are engines, props, windshields and windows, air cycle machine and boots.  If these things are in good condition you shouldn’t have any huge disasters. I’m trying to reconcile this statement with your maintenance figures below. In the 1200 hours over 5 1/2 years that  I have owned/flown MU-2s I have spent $178,000 Fuel $26,000 Training $45,000 Insurance $417,000 Maitenance $48,000 Supplies $42,000 Hanger $5,000 Tools Okay, very useful information.  For an airplane with a reputation for not breaking down, this seems like a lot of money to keep it flying 1200 hours.  Totals $761K or about $140K/year to fly. I’m curious about the $417K for maintenance.  Unless you’ve done engine overhauls or had bad hot section inspections, how could you get to that figure?  It feels like you should be able to replace everything in the airplane for that.    At almost $350 per hour for maintenance (not counting "supplies"), I’m stunned.    That is not the overall reputation the airplane has regarding maintenance.

Maintenance includes a $60,000 interior see: http://www.alexisparkinn.com/rogue’s_gallery_q_-_z.htm NEW air cycle machine (an incredible bargain at $11,000 I bought it immediately) $25,000 windshield (one side) $65,000 Garmin 430/530/GAD42/Shadin ADC2000 and a lot of stuff to make it all fit and work in the panel $15,000 Some of the boots $10K four cabin windows So there is $186K of the $417K and we haven’t done any traditional maitenance yet!  The question becomes:  was that $186k really nesessary? The cabin windows had to be replaced.  They had crazing at or beyond limits. it is also cheaper, labor wise, to replace all suspect windows on one side to avioid taking the whole interior apart several times. If the air cycle machine fails, it is $35K to overhaul so proactively replacing one with 4000hrs on it for $11K is a hell of a deal.  If you don’t take advantage of something like this then you will end up paying the $35k eventually (or sooner) The windshield was going to have to be replaced in the next year or two. All heated glass windshields have lifespans of 20yrs or so. The avionics weren’t strictly required but my home airport only had GPS approaches, so I needed something. Boots are always a judgement call but I have homes in the PNW and the Lake Tahoe area in NV so icing is a major issue.  I don’t really care what they cost and I don’t want to hear about "refurbishing" old rubber. The interior was excessive (but very nice). It is not really a matter of "breaking down’,  I have never had a "break down".  These parts are common to all turbine airplanes, are often the exact same part # (windshields), cost exactly the same and last the same length of time.  On the bright side 2003 was, by far, my least expensive year at $25K. This is a sign that I have gotten ahead of the curve.  In ‘04 I will replace a few more boots, have the 530 upgraded with Garmin’s TAWS (a new AD requirement for all 6+ passenger seat turbines) and possibly get it repainted. Cost per mile (assuming an average block speed of 300 MPH, consistent with climb, headwinds, etc) works out to $2.12 per mile.  This is consistent with the cost per mile of smaller jets like the CJ1.

Yes but I doubt that the opererating cost of that nearly new CJ1 takes into account items that have 20yr lifespans like windshields.  The cost to replace the CJ1 windshields is going to be the same as on the MU-2/Learjet/King Air ect.  They are things that you are going to have to replace on a 20-30 year old airplane.  Same with the cabin windows.  They "dry out",start crazing and then the crazing starts fatigue cracks from the preasurization cycles.  All manufactures have specific limits on windshield crazing and limit polishing.  When you buy a new CJ1, the reason you pay millions of dollars is to have all the parts NEW.  If you buy an older CJ you will be replacing all that stuff one thing at a time.  This is also a major reason why new airplanes depreciate and older ones don’t (much).  On a new airplane the average part is getting worn out whereas the used airplane average part is not. By the time the airplane is 20yrs and 4000 hrs old, the average part is half worn out.  It is either just been replaced, just about to be replaced or somewhere in between.  So it isn’t getting older like all the parts on a new airplane.  You can see this on the used value charts. Also consider that the fixed costs on a new airplane will be higher because of the high value.  It is going to be a lot more expensive to insure and/or finance a 3.5M airplane than one that costs a small fraction of that.  If you finance the airplane, that 2.5M extra will cost $150K more the first year alone and insurance will probably be $50K more.  This exceeds the total cost of owning/operating a MU-2 for a 200hrs a year.  The numbers only work on new airplanes if you fly them a lot and ammortize the high fixed costs over a lot of hours. Basically, if your numbers are correct, they are about 50-60% over what my research led me to believe.

I know that my numbers sound high.  Because I expense these costs, I track them carefully.  The problem with most cost studies is that they take place over too short a time frame.  In a five year period, you may incur no big expenses but the next year you may have a dozen.  Ask any turbine operator what his maitenance costs are.  Then go over each inspection and what it costs.  Then ask the cost of the major parts and how long they last.  When you add up these things I can assure you that the number will be A LOT higher than the one he gave you when you first asked what his maitenance costs were. Of course, if you could find an airplane where everything had been replaced in the past five years…. Mike MU-2

Response:

From a legal standpoint there is an icing AD which requires a lot of equipment that none of the airplanes have (or need).  It consists of an ice detector, trim-in-motion sensor and and automatic autopilot disconnect. There is also an AMOC (Alternate Method of Compliance) approved by the FAA which requires satisfactory training at either Reese Howell’s school or Simcom.  As a practical matter, if you think that you can get adequate training localy, you are fooling yourself and are probably not ready for any turbine airplane. The issue of training really can’t be stressed enough.  Airline pilots, who fly everyday, are required to attend simulator training every six months (Perhaps it is annual, but you get the point).  Virtually all (if not all) corporate turbine pilots are required, as a condition of their employment, to attend annual simulator training.  This training is the major reason that corporate (turbine) and airline flying has a fatal accident rate roughly 100 TIMES (10,000%) better than general aviation piston flying. Ken Martin posted a link to Reese Howell’s site www.mu2b.com .  I encourage you to go there an read the "History" and "Overview" articles.  Having a multi rating and some time in piston twins is not going to prepare you to fly a 1500hp airplane with a 65lb wing loading, you need specific trainiing. I am making my annual pilgrimage to Simcom on Thursday. Mike MU-2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only places that training is availible are TN and FL.  Keep in mind that you will HAVE to go once a year whether you have insurance or not.  This may or may not be a major PITA for you.  It is for me since I live in the West and the only MU-2 simulators are on the East Coast (Orlando). Hi Mike, Your statement makes it sound like the training is mandatory.  I am curious why.  Obviously, there are safety reasons to go, but if you don’t have insurance I didn’t think the FAA made you. Is this a type rating thing?  Driven by what?  Max weight over 12,500? Turbine engines?  Service ceiling? Inquiring piston drivers want to know… -Nathan

Response:

The only places that training is availible are TN and FL.  Keep in mind that you will HAVE to go once a year whether you have insurance or not.  This may or may not be a major PITA for you.  It is for me since I live in the West and the only MU-2 simulators are on the East Coast (Orlando).

Hi Mike, Your statement makes it sound like the training is mandatory.  I am curious why.  Obviously, there are safety reasons to go, but if you don’t have insurance I didn’t think the FAA made you. Is this a type rating thing?  Driven by what?  Max weight over 12,500? Turbine engines?  Service ceiling? Inquiring piston drivers want to know… -Nathan

Response:

do we have any MU-2 gurus out there?

Mike Rapaport is active in the NG . . . he should be able to help you. www.Rosspilot.com

Response:

A good site for MU-2 information is http://www.mu2b.com/ — Ken Martin N5888Q  ’65 M20C Kingsport, TN  KTRI

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in the throes of a big decision on my next airplane.  One airplane in consideration is an MU-2, probably a short body version from the early to mid 1970s.   — Mike Ciholas                            (812) 476-2721 x101 CIHOLAS Enterprises                     (812) 476-2881 fax Evansville, IN 47713                    http://www.ciholas.com

Response:

I have been able to find detailed information, gossip, opinions, local pilots, and so forth on my other candidate types (like a Cessna 421C) but beyond what I read in the Buyer’s Guide books, I have no "feel" for the ownership experience of an MU-2.

Yet there’s certainly been substantial MU-2 chatter on Usenet, especially in rec.aviation.*.         http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=rec.aviation.*&as_us… I appreciate that there’s lots of fact and fiction about the MU-2. (And I’m happy to have a more docile, forgiving twin for now.)  It is certainly something to research. –kyler

Response:

I’m in the throes of a big decision on my next airplane.  One airplane in consideration is an MU-2, probably a short body version from the early to mid 1970s.  I have been able to find detailed information, gossip, opinions, local pilots, and so forth on my other candidate types (like a Cessna 421C) but beyond what I read in the Buyer’s Guide books, I have no "feel" for the ownership experience of an MU-2.

I have an ‘82 Marquise and before this one, I have a ‘78 "N" model.  The airplanes offer a good combination of price and performance and are extremely well built.  One of the reasons that they have such a good price performance ratio is the difficulty of getting insurance.  This limits the number of potential buyers.  If you are going to insure the hull then you should inquire about getting coverage as a fist step.  The early airplanes are cheap to buy but more expensive to own.  Also there aren’t really many "really nice" early airplanes because it costs the same to replace all the parts and the early airplane is not worth nearly as much in the end as a late model airplane so people don’t spend the money.  I realized this when I have the N model and decided to upgrade to a Marquise. In many ways, an MU-2 is my ideal airplane.  Long range, fast, but capable of short and rough fields.  I don’t put much weight on the MU-2s reputation as being difficult to fly or dangerous.  I’ll get the training I need to be safe in the airplane.  I can deal with its "unique" qualities.  The performance is worth it.

The only places that training is availible are TN and FL.  Keep in mind that you will HAVE to go once a year whether you have insurance or not.  This may or may not be a major PITA for you.  It is for me since I live in the West and the only MU-2 simulators are on the East Coast (Orlando). I don’t have a very good feel for the various vintages and options of each model year, nor for the operating costs.  You clearly have to find a specialized shop for the maintenance and that goes for training, too.  I’ve never operated or owned a turbine aircraft, but my experiences so far with turbocharged piston airplanes has not been great.  I get the feeling that buying the "wrong" MU-2 is a major mistake.  I need to understand what it means to do a hot section inspection, what tricks to keep the airplane in shape, what things to look out for, etc.  I’d rather use someone else’s experience than go broke getting my own. :-)

In contrast to training, maitenance is availible in a number of places throughout the US.  It probably won’t be local though.  You are right in saying that buying turbine lemon can be a major mistake.  You need to use a reputable broker and a MU-2 service center for the prebuy.  Turbine airplanes and the systems in them are very reliable.  I have never had a mechanical failure that caused me to cancel a flight.  As for choosing a model, basically each model was a substantial improvement over the previous one.  Usually there were a large number of small improvements between models, more power, more preasurization, quieter, newer systems and better avionics.  The big items to check are engines, props, windshields and windows, air cycle machine and boots.  If these things are in good condition you shouldn’t have any huge disasters. So, do we have any MU-2 gurus out there?  Anybody willing to provide guidance?  I’d love to visit an owner, see their airplane, and have a good heart to heart about it so I can fairly judge the cost and hassles of owning an MU-2.  If anyone has good long term actual cost numbers, I’d be most interested.

In the 1200 hours over 5 1/2 years that  I have owned/flown MU-2s I have spent $178,000 Fuel $26,000 Training $45,000 Insurance Some years I had no insurance, some years I had only liability and some years I had full coverage.  I buy insurance based on whether I think it is a good deal or not. $417,000 Maitenance I have included everything spent at a service center as "maitenance" even though some of it was on improvements such as avionics, interior or replacing parts that didn’t need to be replace right then but would in the next few years.  Over an extended period of time interiors and avionics need to be replaced so I accounted for it this way. $48,000 Supplies.  These include parts that I purchased and were installed by others such as tires as well as parts that I installed myself like batteries. $42,000 Hanger and tiedown fees.  This was before I had my own (owned) hanger. $5,000 Tools This includes $3,000 for a powertow. This comes to $634/hr but not all of it is really nesessary expense.  I suppose that I should deduct $50,000 that I made on the sale of the N model. $500/hr would be more typical.  More if you fly less and less if you fly more.  Many people will tell you much lower figures but these same people consider it an Act of God when they get a $35,000 bill for overhauling an air cycle machine.  They also consider new avionics to be an "upgrade" but the fact is that old avionics fail and require maitenance that they would have to pay for it they didn’t "upgrade" I approached the issue the same way you are approaching it.  I needed an airplane with more capability, decided that the MU-2 fit the role best and went and recieved the nessesary training. Mike MU-2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Mike Ciholas                            (812) 476-2721 x101 CIHOLAS Enterprises                     (812) 476-2881 fax Evansville, IN 47713                    http://www.ciholas.com

Response:

I’m in the throes of a big decision on my next airplane.  One airplane in consideration is an MU-2, probably a short body version from the early to mid 1970s.  I have been able to find detailed information, gossip, opinions, local pilots, and so forth on my other candidate types (like a Cessna 421C) but beyond what I read in the Buyer’s Guide books, I have no "feel" for the ownership experience of an MU-2. In many ways, an MU-2 is my ideal airplane.  Long range, fast, but capable of short and rough fields.  I don’t put much weight on the MU-2s reputation as being difficult to fly or dangerous.  I’ll get the training I need to be safe in the airplane.  I can deal with its "unique" qualities.  The performance is worth it. I don’t have a very good feel for the various vintages and options of each model year, nor for the operating costs.  You clearly have to find a specialized shop for the maintenance and that goes for training, too.  I’ve never operated or owned a turbine aircraft, but my experiences so far with turbocharged piston airplanes has not been great.  I get the feeling that buying the "wrong" MU-2 is a major mistake.  I need to understand what it means to do a hot section inspection, what tricks to keep the airplane in shape, what things to look out for, etc.  I’d rather use someone else’s experience than go broke getting my own. :-) So, do we have any MU-2 gurus out there?  Anybody willing to provide guidance?  I’d love to visit an owner, see their airplane, and have a good heart to heart about it so I can fairly judge the cost and hassles of owning an MU-2.  If anyone has good long term actual cost numbers, I’d be most interested. — Mike Ciholas                            (812) 476-2721 x101 CIHOLAS Enterprises                     (812) 476-2881 fax Evansville, IN 47713                    http://www.ciholas.com

Response:

need advice on dai and fm system

Question:

"charlie" <jay_charlie(NO SPAM)@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:y9ITa.106588$ye5.19265736@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net…

need advice on dai and fm system I’m a long time user of analog aids and have now decided to move up

to a

digital aid which can take an audio-shoe. (Phonak) My needs do not justify the cost of the MicroLink or the Lexis

system.

Is there a less expensive way to get the benefit of a remote mic for personal use in restaurants or bars ?

The least expensive solution is a conference microphone. That is a microphone that connects via a cable directly to the audio shoe. However, the cable may not be convenient. best regards Peter PS. More than Phonak take audio shoes.

Response:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:14:48 +0200, "Peter Weis" <p.w…@email.dk

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"charlie" <jay_charlie(NO SPAM)@hotmail.com wrote in message news:y9ITa.106588$ye5.19265736@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net… need advice on dai and fm system I’m a long time user of analog aids and have now decided to move up to a digital aid which can take an audio-shoe. (Phonak) My needs do not justify the cost of the MicroLink or the Lexis system. Is there a less expensive way to get the benefit of a remote mic for personal use in restaurants or bars ? The least expensive solution is a conference microphone. That is a microphone that connects via a cable directly to the audio shoe. However, the cable may not be convenient. best regards Peter PS. More than Phonak take audio shoes.

Conversor FM is wireless microphone and uses a neckloop so you can use it with any HA with a t-coil. I have one and it does a pretty decent job.  You can even put it by your TV and listen to it up to 150 feet away.  Not sure you’d want to do that, but you could ;-) Terri

Response:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:14:48 +0200, "Peter Weis" <p.w…@email.dk

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"charlie" <jay_charlie(NO SPAM)@hotmail.com wrote in message news:y9ITa.106588$ye5.19265736@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net… need advice on dai and fm system I’m a long time user of analog aids and have now decided to move up to a digital aid which can take an audio-shoe. (Phonak) My needs do not justify the cost of the MicroLink or the Lexis system. Is there a less expensive way to get the benefit of a remote mic for personal use in restaurants or bars ? The least expensive solution is a conference microphone. That is a microphone that connects via a cable directly to the audio shoe. However, the cable may not be convenient. best regards Peter PS. More than Phonak take audio shoes.

My Qualitone Marquise digital has a DAI boot that was included with the aid.  You just have to specify what kind of port you need on the end (CD player, stereo, etc.).  I chose CD player which also works with my computer. Terri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

thanks Peter someone else also mentioned the Conversor where can I get this and how much is it (US$) Charlie <terri…@knowspam.mam

wrote in message

news:3f1ff445.3562667@news.warpnet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:14:48 +0200, "Peter Weis" <p.w…@email.dk> > wrote: > >"charlie" <jay_charlie(NO SPAM)@hotmail.com

wrote in message

> >news:y9ITa.106588$ye5.19265736@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net… > >> need advice on dai and fm system > >> I’m a long time user of analog aids and have now decided to move up > >to a > >> digital aid which can take an audio-shoe. (Phonak) > >> My needs do not justify the cost of the MicroLink or the Lexis > >system. > >> Is there a less expensive way to get the benefit of a remote mic for > >> personal use in restaurants or bars ? > >The least expensive solution is a conference microphone. That is a > >microphone that connects via a cable directly to the audio shoe. > >However, the cable may not be convenient. > >best regards > >Peter > >PS. More than Phonak take audio shoes. > Conversor FM is wireless microphone and uses a neckloop so you can use > it with any HA with a t-coil. I have one and it does a pretty decent > job.  You can even put it by your TV and listen to it up to 150 feet > away.  Not sure you’d want to do that, but you could ;-) > Terri

Response:

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 02:18:04 GMT, "charlie" <jay_charlie(NO SPAM)@hotmail.com

wrote: thanks Peter someone else also mentioned the Conversor where can I get this and how much is it (US$) Charlie

It is about $800 US.  I just typed in a search and a few companies popped up on the web that sold it. Terri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

<terri…@knowspam.mam wrote in message news:3f1ff445.3562667@news.warpnet.net… On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:14:48 +0200, "Peter Weis" <p.w…@email.dk wrote: "charlie" <jay_charlie(NO SPAM)@hotmail.com wrote in message news:y9ITa.106588$ye5.19265736@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net… need advice on dai and fm system I’m a long time user of analog aids and have now decided to move up to a digital aid which can take an audio-shoe. (Phonak) My needs do not justify the cost of the MicroLink or the Lexis system. Is there a less expensive way to get the benefit of a remote mic for personal use in restaurants or bars ? The least expensive solution is a conference microphone. That is a microphone that connects via a cable directly to the audio shoe. However, the cable may not be convenient. best regards Peter PS. More than Phonak take audio shoes. Conversor FM is wireless microphone and uses a neckloop so you can use it with any HA with a t-coil. I have one and it does a pretty decent job.  You can even put it by your TV and listen to it up to 150 feet away.  Not sure you’d want to do that, but you could ;-) Terri

Response:

The Phonak cord which plugs into their dai boot terminates in a standard mono headphone plug which you can plug into a tv, a Boeing 747 or any other source of audio. But to do the same job as Mikrolink you would need a receiver you could plug it into and a small microphone/transmitter to send to the receiver. It gets pretty complicated. It is unfortunate that Microlink is so expensive. In fact I suspect that Phonak made a big mistake in the pricing of this system. If they had put it out at about a third of what they are charging they would probably be selling ten times as many of the things (they are compatible with most brands – not only Phonak). They still have a window of opportunity but not for long. Some Phonak aids now have the microlink technology integrated – eventually I expect this feature to be universal – whether based on FM or a digital system  like Bluetooth. This microlink-type technology certainly has the capacity to make life easier for the deaf.

Response:

need advice on dai and fm system I’m a long time user of analog aids and have now decided to move up to a digital aid which can take an audio-shoe. (Phonak) My needs do not justify the cost of the MicroLink or the Lexis system. Is there a less expensive way to get the benefit of a remote mic for personal use in restaurants or bars ? I was thinking along the lines of getting a Radio Shack wireless mic and connecting the receiver to the audio-shoe via cable. Is there a less expensive FM system I can use?? Anyone have any ideas?? Thanks Charlie

Response:

You can get an audio shoe from the manufacture (phonak) and then you need a Euro Connector on one end of the cable for the shoe and mini male jack for the receiver and yes, it can be done.  You may need to get the cable from Phonak so that it matches the electroics of the aid. Ken "charlie" <jay_charlie(NO SPAM)@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:y9ITa.106588$ye5.19265736@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

need advice on dai and fm system I’m a long time user of analog aids and have now decided to move up to a digital aid which can take an audio-shoe. (Phonak) My needs do not justify the cost of the MicroLink or the Lexis system. Is there a less expensive way to get the benefit of a remote mic for personal use in restaurants or bars ? I was thinking along the lines of getting a Radio Shack wireless mic and connecting the receiver to the audio-shoe via cable. Is there a less expensive FM system I can use?? Anyone have any ideas?? Thanks Charlie

Response:

A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.– Lao Tsu

Question:

A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.– Lao Tsu All difficult things have their origin in that which is easy, and great things in that which is small.– Lao Tzu All great deeds and all great thoughts have a ridiculous beginning. Great works are often born on a street corner or in a restaurant’s revolving door.– Albert Camus There will come a time when you believe everything is finished. That will be the beginning. — Louis L’Amour The distance is nothing; it’s only the first step that is difficult.– Marquise du Deffand Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending.   — Carl Bard The world is round and the place which may seem like the end may also be only the beginning. — Ivy Baker Every morning is a fresh beginning. Every day is the world made new. Today is a new day. Today is my world made new. I have lived all my life up to this moment, to come to this day. This moment–this day–is as good as any moment in all eternity. I shall make of this day–each moment of this day–a heaven on earth. This is my day of opportunity.– Dan Custer All glory comes from daring to begin.– Eugene F. Ware With the possible exception of the equator, everything begins somewhere. — Peter Robert Fleming Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises.– Demosthenes A hard beginning maketh a good ending.– John Heywood Remember tonight.. for it is the beginning of always. — Source Unknown The secret to a rich life is to have more beginnings than endings.– Dave Weinbaum  When there is a start to be made, don’t step over! Start where you are.– Edgar Cayce Start by doing what’s necessary; then do what’s possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible.– St. Francis of Assisi The two important things I did learn were that you are as powerful and strong as you allow yourself to be, and that the most difficult part of any endeavor is taking the first step, making the first decision.– Robyn Davidson He has half the deed done who has made a beginning.– Horace Every new beginning comes from some other beginnings end.– Semisonic Do not despise the bottom rungs in the ascent to greatness.– Publilius Syrus He who chooses the beginning of a road chooses the place it leads to. It is the means that determine the end.– Harry Emerson Fosdick Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it.– Goethe The ultimate wisdom which deals with beginnings, remains locked in a seed. There it lies, the simplest fact of the universe and at the same time the one which calls faith rather than reason.– Hal Borland The greatest masterpieces were once only pigments on a palette.– Henry S. Hoskins We will open the book. Its pages are blank. We are going to put words on them ourselves. The book is called Opportunity and its first chapter is New Year’s Day.– Edith Lovejoy Pierce

Response:

There will come a time when you believe everything is finished. That will be the beginning. — Louis L’Amour

Wow……Hmmmm…… Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending.   — Carl Bard

Very nice!!! A hard beginning maketh a good ending.– John Heywood

I certainly hope this holds true for me! Start by doing what’s necessary; then do what’s possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible.– St. Francis of Assisi

Hmm…. Thank you, Steve! "Help others" <—Carol Ann’s Mom ~Carol Ann

Response:

Wow!  What a great bunch of quotes. (I’ve always loved the one one by Goethe). Barb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.– Lao Tsu All difficult things have their origin in that which is easy, and great things in that which is small.– Lao Tzu All great deeds and all great thoughts have a ridiculous beginning. Great works are often born on a street corner or in a restaurant’s revolving door.– Albert Camus There will come a time when you believe everything is finished. That will be the beginning. — Louis L’Amour The distance is nothing; it’s only the first step that is difficult.– Marquise du Deffand Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending.   — Carl Bard The world is round and the place which may seem like the end may also be only the beginning. — Ivy Baker Every morning is a fresh beginning. Every day is the world made new. Today is a new day. Today is my world made new. I have lived all my life up to this moment, to come to this day. This moment–this day–is as good as any moment in all eternity. I shall make of this day–each moment of this day–a heaven on earth. This is my day of opportunity.– Dan Custer All glory comes from daring to begin.– Eugene F. Ware With the possible exception of the equator, everything begins somewhere. — Peter Robert Fleming Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises.– Demosthenes A hard beginning maketh a good ending.– John Heywood Remember tonight.. for it is the beginning of always. — Source Unknown The secret to a rich life is to have more beginnings than endings.– Dave Weinbaum  When there is a start to be made, don’t step over! Start where you are.– Edgar Cayce Start by doing what’s necessary; then do what’s possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible.– St. Francis of Assisi The two important things I did learn were that you are as powerful and strong as you allow yourself to be, and that the most difficult part of any endeavor is taking the first step, making the first decision.– Robyn Davidson He has half the deed done who has made a beginning.– Horace Every new beginning comes from some other beginnings end.– Semisonic Do not despise the bottom rungs in the ascent to greatness.– Publilius Syrus He who chooses the beginning of a road chooses the place it leads to. It is the means that determine the end.– Harry Emerson Fosdick Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it.– Goethe The ultimate wisdom which deals with beginnings, remains locked in a seed. There it lies, the simplest fact of the universe and at the same time the one which calls faith rather than reason.– Hal Borland The greatest masterpieces were once only pigments on a palette.– Henry S. Hoskins We will open the book. Its pages are blank. We are going to put words on them ourselves. The book is called Opportunity and its first chapter is New Year’s Day.– Edith Lovejoy Pierce

Response:

Tom Waits

Question:

I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete — Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

Response:

I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete

Yessir! Is that the record that has "Short Change Got Rained on(by His Own .38) that would be my favorite song on that one,(can’t remember the title, too lazy to look). The man can really paint a picture can’t he?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete Yessir! Is that the record that has "Short Change Got Rained on(by His Own .38) that would be my favorite song on that one,(can’t remember the title, too lazy to look). The man can really paint a picture can’t he?

That doesn’t ring a bell for me, but it probably does for someone who’s more familiar with Tom Waits.  But Google dug this up:         Small Change         (Got Rained on with His Own .38)         Well small change got rained on with his own .38         and nobody flinched down by the arcade         and the marquise weren’t weeping         they went stark-raving mad         and the cabbies were the only ones         that really had it made         and his cold trousers were twisted,         and the sirens high and shrill         and crumpled in his fist was a five-dollar bill         and the naked mannikins with their         cheshire grins         and the raconteurs         and roustabouts said buddy         come on in         cause the dreams ain’t broken down here now         now …they’re walking with a limp         now that And it goes on & on… http://www.officialtomwaits.com/music/m_sc_lyr.htm#Small_Change I was just noticing last night how well written the songs from "HeartAttack & Vine" were.  And I was thinking, yeah… this guy’s good.  All three of the Tom Waits cutout CDs I picked up were done quite a few years ago.  If I recall, that one was the latest , and it was from 1980. Pete — Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

Response:

Pete…pick up ‘Frank’s Wild Years’, it’s incredible.  The song ‘Have to wait till yesterday’s here’ is especially great. regards Kevin Morrison

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete — Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

Response:

That probably would be a good one.   There was a radio show that was on Saturday nights when the AM sports station couldn’t broadcast a game.  It was called "Another Saturday Night Special".  The show was put on by newscaster Buzz Killman, and Tony Fitzgerald who’s a local artist.  One of the songs they seemed to play most weeks was "Frank’s Wild Years".  The two of them had an interesting collection of songs. I’ve never heard the rest of that album though. Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pete…pick up ‘Frank’s Wild Years’, it’s incredible.  The song ‘Have to wait till yesterday’s here’ is especially great. regards Kevin Morrison I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete — Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

– Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

Response:

I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans.

Hey, chalk this up to ‘other shoe to drop’…. What are the two CDs ya didn’t like? But OK, so this: Tom Waits is great.   If you like him, (and who doesn’t after listening to his compositions…)…absolutely get Nighthawks at the Diner (I have on double LP vinyl). "Emotional Weather Report" is a classic. Like most of Waits’ stuff, part humor, part irony, part tearjerker. He is fan-friggin-tastic.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. Hey, chalk this up to ‘other shoe to drop’…. What are the two CDs ya didn’t like? But OK, so this: Tom Waits is great. If you like him, (and who doesn’t after listening to his compositions…)…absolutely get Nighthawks at the Diner (I have on double LP vinyl). "Emotional Weather Report" is a classic. Like most of Waits’ stuff, part humor, part irony, part tearjerker. He is fan-friggin-tastic.

my faves, "The piano has been drinking" "The one that got away"

Response:

I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. Hey, chalk this up to ‘other shoe to drop’…. What are the two CDs ya didn’t like?

Sly Stone Anthology was full of great songs, but it was a victim of not being properly mastered for CD.  I’ve run into that before several times.  That might not have annoyed me as much if half the songs were tuned about a half fret off. And Keith Richards’ "Main Offender" (did I get that title right?) someone had said that it was better than his "Talk Is Cheap" CD that I always liked.  Well, that’s a matter of taste, because it wasn’t very interesting at all IMO. But OK, so this: Tom Waits is great.   If you like him, (and who doesn’t after listening to his compositions…)…absolutely get Nighthawks at the Diner (I have on double LP vinyl). "Emotional Weather Report" is a classic. Like most of Waits’ stuff, part humor, part irony, part tearjerker. He is fan-friggin-tastic.

I always kind of liked the guy.  His discography is huge.  I had one CD by him before, and I can’t tell you what it is.  It’s buried somewhere. Pete — Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. Hey, chalk this up to ‘other shoe to drop’…. What are the two CDs ya didn’t like? But OK, so this: Tom Waits is great. If you like him, (and who doesn’t after listening to his compositions…)…absolutely get Nighthawks at the Diner (I have on double LP vinyl). "Emotional Weather Report" is a classic. Like most of Waits’ stuff, part humor, part irony, part tearjerker. He is fan-friggin-tastic. my faves, "The piano has been drinking"

That song I think I’ve heard. "The one that got away"

But not that one. Pete — Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

Response:

This guy has been around for ages. Check out early Eagles cover of "Ol’ 55". Then listen to the original. You’ll notice alot is lost in the "translation" by the Eagles. Tom is a master of the lyric. I think on the same album (that’s the media back then for you younger dudes) theres a very slow, lilting tune, basically just piano, string base and drums (brushes only) with the opening lyrics: Well, check out the tune I discover true economy of the lyric. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. Hey, chalk this up to ‘other shoe to drop’…. What are the two CDs ya didn’t like? But OK, so this: Tom Waits is great.   If you like him, (and who doesn’t after listening to his compositions…)…absolutely get Nighthawks at the Diner (I have on double LP vinyl). "Emotional Weather Report" is a classic. Like most of Waits’ stuff, part humor, part irony, part tearjerker. He is fan-friggin-tastic.

Response:

The Lp with "Ol’ 55" was one of the cutout CDs, and I didn’t know that Tom wrote that song, but I checked the credits when I heard the song coming on, and sure enough, he wrote all the songs on that album. I can’t say that The Eagles were my favorite band, but they were always good at picking songs. Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This guy has been around for ages. Check out early Eagles cover of "Ol’ 55". Then listen to the original. You’ll notice alot is lost in the "translation" by the Eagles. Tom is a master of the lyric. I think on the same album (that’s the media back then for you younger dudes) theres a very slow, lilting tune, basically just piano, string base and drums (brushes only) with the opening lyrics: Well, check out the tune I discover true economy of the lyric. I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. Hey, chalk this up to ‘other shoe to drop’…. What are the two CDs ya didn’t like? But OK, so this: Tom Waits is great.   If you like him, (and who doesn’t after listening to his compositions…)…absolutely get Nighthawks at the Diner (I have on double LP vinyl). "Emotional Weather Report" is a classic. Like most of Waits’ stuff, part humor, part irony, part tearjerker. He is fan-friggin-tastic.

– Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

Response:

Yeah, he is on a whole other plane with lyrics than almost anybody else. He writes them (hard enough) and sings them with such a great vibe and understanding of rhythm…there are *very* few that have done that quality of work, both writing and singing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This guy has been around for ages. Check out early Eagles cover of "Ol’ 55". Then listen to the original. You’ll notice alot is lost in the "translation" by the Eagles. Tom is a master of the lyric. I think on the same album (that’s the media back then for you younger dudes) theres a very slow, lilting tune, basically just piano, string base and drums (brushes only) with the opening lyrics: Well, check out the tune I discover true economy of the lyric. I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. Hey, chalk this up to ‘other shoe to drop’…. What are the two CDs ya didn’t like? But OK, so this: Tom Waits is great. If you like him, (and who doesn’t after listening to his compositions…)…absolutely get Nighthawks at the Diner (I have on double LP vinyl). "Emotional Weather Report" is a classic. Like most of Waits’ stuff, part humor, part irony, part tearjerker. He is fan-friggin-tastic.

Response:

I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete

Tom Waits rules.  My older brother turned me on to him a while back. If you like Tom Waits you should check out Randy Newman.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete Tom Waits rules.  My older brother turned me on to him a while back. If you like Tom Waits you should check out Randy Newman.

I always liked Randy Newman.  His piano playing cracks me up too.  He sounds like a kid with stubby little fingers trying to play piano. His playing is very recognizable.   He’s about the only person who could get away with writing a line like "No need to run through the jungle and scuff up your feet".  The guy’s real heavy on sarcasm. Pete — Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

Response:

But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.

Does this mean you’re just discovering Waits?  You have some real treats in store then, he is indeed a terrific writer, and a hell of a character to boot, although I’m glad he finally cleaned up and dried out.  I drifted away from his work for awhile, it got more and more bizarre, and I really loved that old diamonds-on-the-windshield era stuff, but I’ve been listening to his newer material lately and he hasn’t lost his touch, Mule Variations is quite an album as well.  Have fun.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete Yessir! Is that the record that has "Short Change Got Rained on(by His Own .38) that would be my favorite song on that one,(can’t remember the title, too lazy to look). The man can really paint a picture can’t he? That doesn’t ring a bell for me, but it probably does for someone who’s more familiar with Tom Waits.  But Google dug this up:        Small Change        (Got Rained on with His Own .38)        Well small change got rained on with his own .38        and nobody flinched down by the arcade        and the marquise weren’t weeping        they went stark-raving mad        and the cabbies were the only ones        that really had it made        and his cold trousers were twisted,        and the sirens high and shrill        and crumpled in his fist was a five-dollar bill        and the naked mannikins with their        cheshire grins        and the raconteurs        and roustabouts said buddy        come on in        cause the dreams ain’t broken down here now        now …they’re walking with a limp        now that And it goes on & on… http://www.officialtomwaits.com/music/m_sc_lyr.htm#Small_Change I was just noticing last night how well written the songs from "HeartAttack & Vine" were.  And I was thinking, yeah… this guy’s good.  All three of the Tom Waits cutout CDs I picked up were done quite a few years ago.  If I recall, that one was the latest , and it was from 1980.

Pete you should seriously check out some of his newer stuff like: Mule Variations Bone Machine Sword Fish Trombones More well written tunes but with a little more angularity to the music and some great musicians to boot. matt

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete Tom Waits rules.  My older brother turned me on to him a while back. If you like Tom Waits you should check out Randy Newman.

 I was just remembering seeing Tom Waits in 1974 warming up Frank Zappa for the "Overnight Sensation" tour. Tom was solo at a grand piano smoking cigarettes like a chimney and swilling beers. He was quite amazing and enjoyable to me but many of the folk there came to only hear Frank sing "Dynamo Hum". It must have been a really tough tour for Tom Waits walking onto a stage that was colder than cold night after night. He was interviewed by Down Beat after the tour (his album had done quite well in their polls that year) he said that tour "bit the big green svboda". Since then I have seen him 4 times always with phenomenal bands, one tour had him teamed up with Leon Redbone, someone probably thought their voices matched but musically they were a real clash (tho’ both acts were excellent especially Leon Redbone). I would highly recommend anything Waits even his pop stuff is quite enjoyable. matt

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete Yessir! Is that the record that has "Short Change Got Rained on(by His Own .38) that would be my favorite song on that one,(can’t remember the title, too lazy to look). The man can really paint a picture can’t he? That doesn’t ring a bell for me, but it probably does for someone who’s more familiar with Tom Waits.  But Google dug this up:        Small Change        (Got Rained on with His Own .38)        Well small change got rained on with his own .38        and nobody flinched down by the arcade        and the marquise weren’t weeping        they went stark-raving mad        and the cabbies were the only ones        that really had it made        and his cold trousers were twisted,        and the sirens high and shrill        and crumpled in his fist was a five-dollar bill        and the naked mannikins with their        cheshire grins        and the raconteurs        and roustabouts said buddy        come on in        cause the dreams ain’t broken down here now        now …they’re walking with a limp        now that And it goes on & on… http://www.officialtomwaits.com/music/m_sc_lyr.htm#Small_Change I was just noticing last night how well written the songs from "HeartAttack & Vine" were.  And I was thinking, yeah… this guy’s good.  All three of the Tom Waits cutout CDs I picked up were done quite a few years ago.  If I recall, that one was the latest , and it was from 1980. Pete you should seriously check out some of his newer stuff like: Mule Variations Bone Machine Sword Fish Trombones More well written tunes but with a little more angularity to the music and some great musicians to boot. matt

I just dug it out of the stack and played the one Tom Waits CD I had before, and it was "Sword Fish Trombones".  There’s some good stuff on there, but most of it’s pretty hard to take.  So far of all the ones I have, "HeartAttack & Vine" is my favorite so far.  Maybe because it’s easy to pick up a guitar and play along with. Pete — Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete Yessir! Is that the record that has "Short Change Got Rained on(by His Own .38) that would be my favorite song on that one,(can’t remember the title, too lazy to look). The man can really paint a picture can’t he? That doesn’t ring a bell for me, but it probably does for someone who’s more familiar with Tom Waits.  But Google dug this up:         Small Change         (Got Rained on with His Own .38)         Well small change got rained on with his own .38         and nobody flinched down by the arcade         and the marquise weren’t weeping         they went stark-raving mad         and the cabbies were the only ones         that really had it made         and his cold trousers were twisted,         and the sirens high and shrill         and crumpled in his fist was a five-dollar bill         and the naked mannikins with their         cheshire grins         and the raconteurs         and roustabouts said buddy         come on in         cause the dreams ain’t broken down here now         now …they’re walking with a limp         now that And it goes on & on… http://www.officialtomwaits.com/music/m_sc_lyr.htm#Small_Change I was just noticing last night how well written the songs from "HeartAttack & Vine" were.  And I was thinking, yeah… this guy’s good.  All three of the Tom Waits cutout CDs I picked up were done quite a few years ago.  If I recall, that one was the latest , and it was from 1980. Pete

that’s "Small Change" allright. I’ll have to dig it out and check the Title, but, I’m pretty sure it IS called "Small Change" I think its an early 80’s recording. If you’re looking up Waits, look up "The Piano has Been Drinking" It’s on the same Album, and anybody who’s been playing the bars would recognize the character. The Heart of Saturday Night is another really good one from around then. "…A cash crop car lot filled with twilight Coupe DeVilles".

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. Hey, chalk this up to ‘other shoe to drop’…. What are the two CDs ya didn’t like? But OK, so this: Tom Waits is great. If you like him, (and who doesn’t after listening to his compositions…)…absolutely get Nighthawks at the Diner (I have on double LP vinyl). "Emotional Weather Report" is a classic. Like most of Waits’ stuff, part humor, part irony, part tearjerker. He is fan-friggin-tastic. my faves, "The piano has been drinking" "The one that got away"

Those are both on "Small Change" one of his best IMO. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete Yessir! Is that the record that has "Short Change Got Rained on(by His Own .38) that would be my favorite song on that one,(can’t remember the title, too lazy to look). The man can really paint a picture can’t he? That doesn’t ring a bell for me, but it probably does for someone who’s more familiar with Tom Waits.  But Google dug this up:        Small Change        (Got Rained on with His Own .38)        Well small change got rained on with his own .38        and nobody flinched down by the arcade        and the marquise weren’t weeping        they went stark-raving mad        and the cabbies were the only ones        that really had it made        and his cold trousers were twisted,        and the sirens high and shrill        and crumpled in his fist was a five-dollar bill        and the naked mannikins with their        cheshire grins        and the raconteurs        and roustabouts said buddy        come on in        cause the dreams ain’t broken down here now        now …they’re walking with a limp        now that And it goes on & on… http://www.officialtomwaits.com/music/m_sc_lyr.htm#Small_Change I was just noticing last night how well written the songs from "HeartAttack & Vine" were.  And I was thinking, yeah… this guy’s good.  All three of the Tom Waits cutout CDs I picked up were done quite a few years ago.  If I recall, that one was the latest , and it was from 1980. Pete you should seriously check out some of his newer stuff like: Mule Variations Bone Machine Sword Fish Trombones More well written tunes but with a little more angularity to the music and some great musicians to boot. matt

I have "Bone Machine". Some have told me it’s unlistenable, the equivilent of Lou Reed’s "Metal Machine Music", but I like it a lot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete Yessir! Is that the record that has "Short Change Got Rained on(by His Own .38) that would be my favorite song on that one,(can’t remember the title, too lazy to look). The man can really paint a picture can’t he? That doesn’t ring a bell for me, but it probably does for someone who’s more familiar with Tom Waits.  But Google dug this up:         Small Change         (Got Rained on with His Own .38)         Well small change got rained on with his own .38         and nobody flinched down by the arcade         and the marquise weren’t weeping         they went stark-raving mad         and the cabbies were the only ones         that really had it made         and his cold trousers were twisted,         and the sirens high and shrill         and crumpled in his fist was a five-dollar bill         and the naked mannikins with their         cheshire grins         and the raconteurs         and roustabouts said buddy         come on in         cause the dreams ain’t broken down here now         now …they’re walking with a limp         now that And it goes on & on… http://www.officialtomwaits.com/music/m_sc_lyr.htm#Small_Change I was just noticing last night how well written the songs from "HeartAttack & Vine" were.  And I was thinking, yeah… this guy’s good.  All three of the Tom Waits cutout CDs I picked up were done quite a few years ago.  If I recall, that one was the latest , and it was from 1980. Pete that’s "Small Change" allright. I’ll have to dig it out and check the Title, but, I’m pretty sure it IS called "Small Change" I think its an early 80’s recording. If you’re looking up Waits, look up "The Piano has Been Drinking" It’s on the same Album, and anybody who’s been playing the bars would recognize the character. The Heart of Saturday Night is another really good one from around then. "…A cash crop car lot filled with twilight Coupe DeVilles".

That’s one of the ones I got from the cutout bin.  I wish I’d just gone to the cutout bins that day, and skipped the full price section. They also had a Warren Zevon CD in the bins that I paid full price for recently at B&N online. Being in the cutout bins could mean any number of things.  It could mean the album is just shit, or it could mean that it’s too good to be popular with the general public.  Next time I’ll look in the cutouts first. Pete — Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. Hey, chalk this up to ‘other shoe to drop’…. What are the two CDs ya didn’t like? But OK, so this: Tom Waits is great. If you like him, (and who doesn’t after listening to his compositions…)…absolutely get Nighthawks at the Diner (I have on double LP vinyl). "Emotional Weather Report" is a classic. Like most of Waits’ stuff, part humor, part irony, part tearjerker. He is fan-friggin-tastic. my faves, "The piano has been drinking" "The one that got away" Those are both on "Small Change" one of his best IMO.

MTV used to run a cartoon "Video" of "The one that got away". A Long time ago. Probably never see that again.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. Hey, chalk this up to ‘other shoe to drop’…. What are the two CDs ya didn’t like? But OK, so this: Tom Waits is great. If you like him, (and who doesn’t after listening to his compositions…)…absolutely get Nighthawks at the Diner (I have on double LP vinyl). "Emotional Weather Report" is a classic. Like most of Waits’ stuff, part humor, part irony, part tearjerker. He is fan-friggin-tastic. my faves, "The piano has been drinking" "The one that got away" Those are both on "Small Change" one of his best IMO. MTV used to run a cartoon "Video" of "The one that got away". A Long time ago. Probably never see that again.

I rarely watch MTV, but I wish that I would have seen that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Saw Waits circa 80-81, Lobero Theater, Santa Barbara,CA. Fog, street lamp and a ‘whore that could counter-rotate the tassles. and, of coutse, Tom in trenchcoat and piano. "Eggs and sausage … and a side for toast." "Knew a girl who was married so much she had rice marks on her face."

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was in Borders a few days ago, with no intention of buying any books.  So I picked up a couple CDs that I thought would be good, but the one was badly mastered (dull), and the other was over rated by the person’s fans. But I stopped at the cutout bin on my way out of the store, and picked up three CDs by Tom Waits.  Damn that guy’s a good writer.  He has to have been about as good as any song writer from the 20th Century.  My favorite of the CDs I picked up was "Heartattack and Vine" http://www.officialtomwaits.com/ Pete — Return to your homes. And never dance to this evil beat again. –Samurai Jack

Response:

Wedding Ring Question?

Question:

It can be whatever you want it to be.  Most people try to get to match the engagement ring.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the wedding ring supposed to be a plain band or is it supposed to have a stone on it?  Is it supposed to be gold, silver?

Response:

My parents have plain, gold, matching bands which they did not buy until they’d been married, oh, 20 (?) years or so. I have my grandmother’s platinum/diamond wedding band, and my fiance will have a  new gold ring with an intricate celtic design and a green stone. My parents original rings were $3 silver rings bought at some hippy faire in 1970. Their marriage has lasted 32 years and is still going strong. The rings are supposed to be something that is meaningful for you, which you will take pleasure in wearing either for symbolism, aesthetic beauty or both. In my case, I *love* this ring… and coincidentally the engagement band belonged to *his* grandmother and is also platinum and diamond, though I will never wear them on the same hand as the designs are so different. That is one large central diamond surrounded by filigreed petals with smaller diamonds in them. My grandmother’s band is simpler, marquise and round diamonds alternating in bezel settings. They’re both lovely and more "me" than anything gold could be. And yes, had the wedding bands been silver from the Saturday Market, I’d have been content. Jen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the wedding ring supposed to be a plain band or is it supposed to have a stone on it?  Is it supposed to be gold, silver?

Response:

its whatever you want it to be.  usually its a fairly plain ring but it doesnt have to be.  for the engagement ring, my fiance has a platinum band with two suspended baguettes and a big stone in the center.  we tried lots of different wedding bands with and without that ring and plain just looked too, well….. plain…. so we ended up getting a fairly simple platinum band with (i believe it was) 5 very tiny diamonds in it that looked good with the engagement ring and also looked good on its own.  it was actually pretty inexpensive for what it was ($450 i believe at the somewhat local giant jewelry store).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the wedding ring supposed to be a plain band or is it supposed to have a stone on it?  Is it supposed to be gold, silver?

Response:

Hello Eric,    I think "usually" the wedding ring is plain…. but not always. I am engaged…. we are getting married Sept. 21, 2002. We did something different for symbolic reasons. Both the engagement ring as well as the wedding rings are custom-made. The engagement ring is a diamond with smaller diamonds in a half circle on one side of it. The wedding ring is the other half of the semi circle forming a complete circle of smaller stones with the big diamond in the center. It symbolizes the two of us with Christ in the center.    Hope this helps.       Boots

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the wedding ring supposed to be a plain band or is it supposed to have a stone on it?  Is it supposed to be gold, silver?

Response:

That sounds pretty :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Eric,   I think "usually" the wedding ring is plain…. but not always. I am engaged…. we are getting married Sept. 21, 2002. We did something different for symbolic reasons. Both the engagement ring as well as the wedding rings are custom-made. The engagement ring is a diamond with smaller diamonds in a half circle on one side of it. The wedding ring is the other half of the semi circle forming a complete circle of smaller stones with the big diamond in the center. It symbolizes the two of us with Christ in the center.   Hope this helps.      Boots Is the wedding ring supposed to be a plain band or is it supposed to have a stone on it?  Is it supposed to be gold, silver?

Response:

Eric Spitzenberger wrote… Is the wedding ring supposed to be a plain band or is it supposed to have a stone on it?  Is it supposed to be gold, silver?

Yes.   hth — Joe Pucillo Baltimore, Maryland  USA To reply by email, please remove the .xx from the address.

Response:

Is the wedding ring supposed to be a plain band or is it supposed to have a stone on it?  Is it supposed to be gold, silver?

Depends.  Some religions require that the wedding band be plain, with no jewel on it.  Others don’t care.  In most cases, you don’t even need a wedding band to make a valid marriage, just as you don’t *need* a ring to have a valid betrothal.  Or, in some, only the bride *needs* a ring, but not the groom. It’s supposed to be a precious metal.  Silver is not as expensive as gold, and some would discount it on that.  Other folks like the durability of platinum, but that’s way more expensive even than gold. It’s a matter of taste and budget. — aMAZon "It’s never too late to have a happy childhood."

Response:

Eric Spitzenberger wrote… Is the wedding ring supposed to be a plain band or is it supposed to have a stone on it?  Is it supposed to be gold, silver? Yes. hth — Joe Pucillo Baltimore, Maryland  USA

Don’t be a jerk, Joe. Eric, The correct answers are yes, and yes. Ann

Response:

Is the wedding ring supposed to be a plain band or is it supposed to have a stone on it?  Is it supposed to be gold, silver?

Response:

I'm looking for a digital hearing aid with adjustable volume

Question:

I’m sure there are many, but I’m using a Canta 7. It provides switch-selection between three programs, plus a very wide volume control. Works very well for me. . <<<jmarsince2-at-yahoo-dot-com

Response:

I know the feeling. – I’m trying out the Phonak Claro 311 with remote control. It seems to have a lot of potential with it’s wide range of adjustment, multi programs, and volume control. Good Luck, Jim "JudyH" <ni…@pnc.com.au

wrote in message

news:9bf32bc3.0208101921.54835ae6@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi I’m new to the group – I am finding it very helpful.  I used a sequel for many years and only recently changed to a senso digital.  I find I still go back to my old sequel hearing aids, even though they are not digital because they are adjustable to volume.  I find my senso is too noisy in some situations ie the car and not strong enough tp pick up some conversations. I am now looking for a new hearing aid – my primary need is conversation.  I work in an office and find I get left out socially – just cannot pick up conversation unless it is directed at me.  I would really appreciate any advice you could give me. Many thanks

Response:

On 10 Aug 2002 20:21:55 -0700, ni…@pnc.com.au (JudyH) wrote:

Hi I’m new to the group – I am finding it very helpful.  I used a sequel for many years and only recently changed to a senso digital.  I find I still go back to my old sequel hearing aids, even though they are not digital because they are adjustable to volume.  I find my senso is too noisy in some situations ie the car and not strong enough tp pick up some conversations. I am now looking for a new hearing aid – my primary need is conversation.  I work in an office and find I get left out socially – just cannot pick up conversation unless it is directed at me.  I would really appreciate any advice you could give me. Many thanks

If you are referring to a digital BTE with volume control, I have tried the Phonak 311 daz and the Qualitone Marquise DSP.  The Qualitone has a volume wheel on the aid and the Phonak has two different types of remote controls that allow you to adjust the volume.   My research showed that the digitals for severe-profound hearing losses were more likely to have volume controls Perhaps someone else knows about whether digital  ITEs or CICs have the ability to control volume? Terri

Response:

I am working in this field, so I know a fair amount of information. Regarding the user who is looking for an instrument mainly for conversation. Have you thought about getting a Dual-Mic Instrument.  I think most of the hearing instrument companies provide these instruments. Dual-Mic instruments have two microphones, which you can switch by using a toggle switch.  The first mic works like a normal microphone, the second though, points directly in front of the user.  The dual-mic increases the amplification in the front, but decreases amplification in the back of the user. Anyways my two cents.

Perhaps someone else knows about whether digital  ITEs or CICs have the ability to control volume?

 Yes, they do. You can get ITEs and CICs with a remote control, which will allow you to adjust the volume, and or programs?   Stephan

Response:

Re: I’m looking for a digital hearing aid with adjustable volume   Group: alt.support.hearing-loss Date: Mon, Aug 12, 2002, 12:55am (EDT-3) From: ss…@hotmail.com (Stephan) I am working in this field, so I know a fair amount of information. Regarding the user who is looking for an instrument mainly for conversation. Have you thought about getting a Dual-Mic Instrument. I think most of the hearing instrument companies provide these instruments. Dual-Mic instruments have two microphones, which you can switch by using a toggle switch. The first mic works like a normal microphone, the second though, points directly in front of the user. The dual-mic increases the amplification in the front, but decreases amplification in the back of the user. Anyways my two cents. Perhaps someone else knows about whether digital ITEs or CICs have the ability to control volume?

Suing a mistress

Question:

Replying to my own post. Heh. Pretty lame, huh? But I had some more thoughts. (Oh, NO!!! Not more thoughts!!!!) How do you know the wife knows about all of this? I don’t doubt that she knows of your existence, but I’m wondering if she’s known that he’s continued this relationship basically non-stop for the entire 17 years?

Another part of this is that, from what I’ve gathered, there’s not been time for things to even get to a ‘good’ place before whats-his-face took off again. My husband’s affair ended in early 1996, and it took a good 3-4 years before you could say we had a fairly okay marriage again. The first year was plain hell. For both of us. But it slowly got better…and then a little better…until now it’s pretty damned good. It’s not just a matter of the wandering spouse coming back into the marriage and Wham! everything is hunky- dory again. There are so many things that *both* of them have to work on and work on diligently for a marriage to have a chance of making it back. WHF has continued an affair for 17 years, so I have no doubt that he didn’t work too awfully hard on his marriage. His wife has probably had to live with the fact that he was going to take off at any time and it’s *impossible* to open yourself up completely to someone who might be out the door again tomorrow. Tracey

Response:

Joan, I am sorry to see you continue to shift the blame from you to him or his wife.  We are not excusing them from their part, but they are not the one who came here for help.

I’m not trying to "shift blame".   It just feels like I’m hearing a lot of "you are the reason the marriage has problems" comments and I just don’t believe I am the sole source of the problems.     Most attempts at helping you have failed because you will never truly accept your part in this mess.  Your stock answer seems to be "Yes, BUT".  The yes is immediately negated by the BUT,

Sorry if it seems that way.  I’m still really reacting to all this in disbelief.  It’s something I never thought would happen. It’s all very new.   When you have spent 17 years loving someone, and being told constantly we were going to make it, not to worry, it was going to be ok, and a week before he went back 3 weeks ago,  I want you to meet my kids in a week to BAM…gone completely.   Having been severely depressed and near suicide in the past, I knew this was something I couldn’t handle on my own. Three weeks later I’m still crying, still not able to function and off work, still not able to eat without getting sick.   I just can’t jump from a loving relationship to it was no big deal.  I’m seeing a therapist, on drugs and trying to work through it all.     If I’m not able to do that in your timeframe, I’m sorry, I truly am, but I’m not you.  

Response:

Problems do not get solved with silence!    JMHO No, no, they don’t. And problems also don’t get solved when the *main* problem at the time is not even on the board to get fixed. For me, trying to fix any of the issues in our marriage when the affair was going on was like worrying about a broken toe while there was a gaping, sucking chest wound. It was futile to worry about the toe, the chest wound was ready to kill the marriage.

I agree 100% but you don’t ignore the chest wound and hope it goes away either. I knew this woman and was on somewhat "friendly" terms with her 18 years ago. Her husband and I worked together then and I often had reason to call the home (before anything got started).   We were never really friends but it was always a sort of pleasant exchange between us.   A few years later the exchanges got very icy, understandably so.   It was about 12 years ago we stopped working together.   At about 10 years ago I actually wrote her a letter about what was going on.   Throughout the years we’ve still had many awkward occasions where we’ve talked and it was pretty obvious everything was still going strong, I’m wearing marquise diamond ring too. Five years ago, the first time he went back, I called to talk to him and actually talked to his 16 year old daughter for close to an hour.    She knew who I was and what was going on.   We sat on the phone together crying.   I’ll never forget it, she said she didn’t want her dad to leave but she wanted her dad to be happy and as long as she could still see him, she’d be ok.  She didn’t want her dad to stay there if he wasn’t happy. Ironicly, my mechanic happens to be his wife’s brother.  When things hit 2 years ago my car was in the shop.   I went there  and was pretty upset.  I told him I really appreciated his keeping the professional stuff separate from the personal stuff.   He asked what was wrong and I told him that once again, he had gone back there.   Her brother is a great guy, divorced and remarried himself.  He was SO understanding, not at all judgemental.  His responses were "I don’t know why my sister keeps putting up with this, it’s not like her" and "He’s got some serious issues to work through".    As I left, he said,  "I’ll leave the light on for you" I haven’t seen him recently, have a new car still under warranty but he did work on my old car a number of times after that.  I’m always amazed at his compassion and understanding since he was on the receiving end of a spouse who cheated on him AND her brother! Like I told her brother, I didn’t hate his wife, or think she was a bad person.  I had never gotten the stereotypical lines about my wife not understanding me and the like. I didn’t like anybody getting hurt but I believed the marriage was over and he loved me and wanted to be with me. Not long after that I wrote her another letter.   Kind of stupid in retrospect, but I wanted to be sure she knew that I loved him and that I have been out here for a long, long time being promised a future with him.   I guess at the time I thought she would just give up.    Obviously that didn’t happen. So, I’m quite sure she knows, has known and continues to know about the length of time and involvement that has taken place. At some point wouldn’t you force the issue?    Their house is paid for, no financial obligations.  It’s not like she would lose possessions, home, etc.  I saw the separation papers, she was getting everything except a small portion of the house that she can easily afford.    No small children anymore…. Even for me, when he was still not sure last year when he went back, I told him I couldn’t say it wasn’t about the kids anymore, they are grown, one married, one off to college.   There were 3 of us and I didn’t want to be a mistress and until he moved out, I wouldn’t see him again.   Three weeks later he moved out..  I have a hard time believing anybody could want to continue living a lie for that many years.   But then again, like I said, I look in the mirror and how can I say anything about her?

Response:

I am about where you are, Steve. In a way I feel sorry for Joan because I don’t think she has any insight at all into her responsibility. And she has no idea how much pain and suffering her own actions have caused. Therefore, she will repeat this stuff. I just wish she would get some insight into her responsibility as you suggested. But all I see are defensive walls thrown up all the time….and accusations that I am lashing out at her. I guess the truth hurts. Denise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joan, I give up.  I am obviously not able to communicate with you.  I think Tracy and Denise have been very patient with you and are offering you some excellent advice. I am sorry for the pain that you are going through.  We will never agree to who is responsible for the pain.  That doesn’t mean that I can’t have compassion for another human being.  May God guide you in your pursuit of peace. sam Be careful that the toes you step on today are not attached to the body of the a** you have to kiss tomorrow.    (anonymous) Joan, I am sorry to see you continue to shift the blame from you to him or his wife.  We are not excusing them from their part, but they are not the one who came here for help. I’m not trying to "shift blame".   It just feels like I’m hearing a lot of "you are the reason the marriage has problems" comments and I just don’t believe I am the sole source of the problems. Most attempts at helping you have failed because you will never truly accept your part in this mess. Your stock answer seems to be "Yes, BUT".  The yes is immediately negated by the BUT, Sorry if it seems that way.  I’m still really reacting to all this in disbelief.  It’s something I never thought would happen. It’s all very new.   When you have spent 17 years loving someone, and being told constantly we were going to make it, not to worry, it was going to be ok, and a week before he went back 3 weeks ago,  I want you to meet my kids in a week to BAM…gone completely. Having been severely depressed and near suicide in the past, I knew this was something I couldn’t handle on my own. Three weeks later I’m still crying, still not able to function and off work, still not able to eat without getting sick.   I just can’t jump from a loving relationship to it was no big deal.  I’m seeing a therapist, on drugs and trying to work through it all.     If I’m not able to do that in your timeframe, I’m sorry, I truly am, but I’m not you.

Response:

Joan, I give up.  I am obviously not able to communicate with you.  I think Tracy and Denise have been very patient with you and are offering you some excellent advice. I am sorry for the pain that you are going through.  We will never agree to who is responsible for the pain.  That doesn’t mean that I can’t have compassion for another human being.  May God guide you in your pursuit of peace. sam Be careful that the toes you step on today are not attached to the body of the a** you have to kiss tomorrow.    (anonymous)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joan, I am sorry to see you continue to shift the blame from you to him or his wife.  We are not excusing them from their part, but they are not the one who came here for help. I’m not trying to "shift blame".   It just feels like I’m hearing a lot of "you are the reason the marriage has problems" comments and I just don’t believe I am the sole source of the problems. Most attempts at helping you have failed because you will never truly accept your part in this mess. Your stock answer seems to be "Yes, BUT".  The yes is immediately negated by the BUT, Sorry if it seems that way.  I’m still really reacting to all this in disbelief.  It’s something I never thought would happen. It’s all very new.   When you have spent 17 years loving someone, and being told constantly we were going to make it, not to worry, it was going to be ok, and a week before he went back 3 weeks ago,  I want you to meet my kids in a week to BAM…gone completely. Having been severely depressed and near suicide in the past, I knew this was something I couldn’t handle on my own. Three weeks later I’m still crying, still not able to function and off work, still not able to eat without getting sick.   I just can’t jump from a loving relationship to it was no big deal.  I’m seeing a therapist, on drugs and trying to work through it all.     If I’m not able to do that in your timeframe, I’m sorry, I truly am, but I’m not you.

Response:

Are you saying that you talked to his 16 year old daughter about your relationship with her father? Sorry, I find that one unforgiveable. That was an act of aggression and that poor child was traumatized. Does your conscience ever tell you that you made a mistake? I know that yet again you think I am lashing out at you but for heavens sake, you need to look at your actions here. Denise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Problems do not get solved with silence!    JMHO No, no, they don’t. And problems also don’t get solved when the *main* problem at the time is not even on the board to get fixed. For me, trying to fix any of the issues in our marriage when the affair was going on was like worrying about a broken toe while there was a gaping, sucking chest wound. It was futile to worry about the toe, the chest wound was ready to kill the marriage. I agree 100% but you don’t ignore the chest wound and hope it goes away either. I knew this woman and was on somewhat "friendly" terms with her 18 years ago. Her husband and I worked together then and I often had reason to call the home (before anything got started).   We were never really friends but it was always a sort of pleasant exchange between us.   A few years later the exchanges got very icy, understandably so.   It was about 12 years ago we stopped working together.   At about 10 years ago I actually wrote her a letter about what was going on. Throughout the years we’ve still had many awkward occasions where we’ve talked and it was pretty obvious everything was still going strong, I’m wearing marquise diamond ring too. Five years ago, the first time he went back, I called to talk to him and actually talked to his 16 year old daughter for close to an hour.    She knew who I was and what was going on.   We sat on the phone together crying. I’ll never forget it, she said she didn’t want her dad to leave but she wanted her dad to be happy and as long as she could still see him, she’d be ok.  She didn’t want her dad to stay there if he wasn’t happy. Ironicly, my mechanic happens to be his wife’s brother.  When things hit 2 years ago my car was in the shop.   I went there  and was pretty upset.  I told him I really appreciated his keeping the professional stuff separate from the personal stuff.   He asked what was wrong and I told him that once again, he had gone back there.   Her brother is a great guy, divorced and remarried himself.  He was SO understanding, not at all judgemental.  His responses were "I don’t know why my sister keeps putting up with this, it’s not like her" and "He’s got some serious issues to work through".    As I left, he said, "I’ll leave the light on for you" I haven’t seen him recently, have a new car still under warranty but he did work on my old car a number of times after that.  I’m always amazed at his compassion and understanding since he was on the receiving end of a spouse who cheated on him AND her brother! Like I told her brother, I didn’t hate his wife, or think she was a bad person.  I had never gotten the stereotypical lines about my wife not understanding me and the like. I didn’t like anybody getting hurt but I believed the marriage was over and he loved me and wanted to be with me. Not long after that I wrote her another letter.   Kind of stupid in retrospect, but I wanted to be sure she knew that I loved him and that I have been out here for a long, long time being promised a future with him.   I guess at the time I thought she would just give up.    Obviously that didn’t happen. So, I’m quite sure she knows, has known and continues to know about the length of time and involvement that has taken place. At some point wouldn’t you force the issue?    Their house is paid for, no financial obligations.  It’s not like she would lose possessions, home, etc.  I saw the separation papers, she was getting everything except a small portion of the house that she can easily afford.    No small children anymore…. Even for me, when he was still not sure last year when he went back, I told him I couldn’t say it wasn’t about the kids anymore, they are grown, one married, one off to college.   There were 3 of us and I didn’t want to be a mistress and until he moved out, I wouldn’t see him again.   Three weeks later he moved out..  I have a hard time believing anybody could want to continue living a lie for that many years.   But then again, like I said, I look in the mirror and how can I say anything about her?

Response:

I knew he was married and I chose to let it continue.   I’m not free of responsibility, not by a long shot, but I’ve felt like most of the responses have sort of put the spouse who cheats on some pedestal like it was the bad other woman/man that destroyed the marriage.    

Well, Joan, I don’t think you’ve read a whole lot of posts to spouses who cheat then, because a spouse who cheats is definitely *not* put on a pedestal in this group. What you need to realize is that *you* are the one posting, not him. If *he* were posting, you’d see the same sort of posts to him. I know it didn’t help, that’s for sure, but something had to be missing at home, or problems had to exist in the marriage, for him to have decided to pursue this emotionally as well as physically, especially for 17 years.

I gotta say that that is a rationalization for an affair, and one that doesn’t particularly fly for me. I’m not saying that my marriage was perfect before my husband started his affair, but *not once* has my husband ever been able to verbalize anything wrong with our marriage or with me that caused the affair to happen. In fact, he has always taken responsibility and all of the blame for the affair. (Well, okay, it took him a while to get out of the ‘It just happened. I didn’t *want* it to,’ phase, but he did get out of it.) It’s easy to blame another person for destroying a marriage, but as you said it takes two to make a marriage and the spouse is the one that took the vows, the one that chose to break them.  

You’re right, the spouse is the one who took and broke the vows. At the same time, if there was no one in this world who would sleep with a married person, who would stay out of emotional entanglements with a married person, then adultery wouldn’t exist. It also takes two to make an affair, just as it takes two to make a marriage and, IMO, both in the affair are just as culpable. In my case, the wife has known for over 10 years and she has done NOTHING to confront the problem of me, or the ones in their marriage until he was ready to file papers.

How do you know the wife knows about all of this? I don’t doubt that she knows of your existence, but I’m wondering if she’s known that he’s continued this relationship basically non-stop for the entire 17 years? Isn’t it possible that she has thought that it stopped quite a few times? (And, no, if you tell me because he told you she knows, I’m not going to accept that.) I’m also really reluctant to believe that she’s done nothing to confront the problem. Maybe she hasn’t done anything effective, but again, I can’t take the information you’ve been given as gospel here. I realize some spouses are totally blindsided, have no idea anything is going on and one day they are alone.   Those people I really feel for.   Obviously, if they knew there was a problem in the marriage they had no chance to try to work it out, but if they KNOW and are going to play doormat in the name of commitment, that party has as much ownership in the disintegration of the marriage as the cheating spouse and other person.  

And I say that there is *nothing* anyone can do to save a marriage when their spouse is in the middle of an affair. What was this woman supposed to do?????? Be all lovey-dovey, meet him at the door in saran wrap, wait on him hand and foot, change things about herself, not even knowing if that was what needed to happen, all while he’s still sleeping with you? That’s pretty much asking the impossible. Believe me. It IS asking the impossible. I know. I did it for months before I even knew an affair was going on. I did *every- thing* I possible could, ‘fixed’ problems (that weren’t even the *real* problems!), was understanding, was sup- portive, basically worked myself into physical and emo- tional exhaustion trying to fix a marriage that my hus- band had no interest in fixing at the time and, I ima- gine, he probably didn’t even *see* what I was trying to do. He wasn’t there. He was living in La-La-Land and didn’t have the time to even acknowledge our marriage existed. Problems do not get solved with silence!    JMHO

No, no, they don’t. And problems also don’t get solved when the *main* problem at the time is not even on the board to get fixed. For me, trying to fix any of the issues in our marriage when the affair was going on was like worrying about a broken toe while there was a gaping, sucking chest wound. It was futile to worry about the toe, the chest wound was ready to kill the marriage. Tracey

Response:

I realize some spouses are totally blindsided, have no idea anything is going on and one day they are alone.   Those people I really feel for. Obviously, if they knew there was a problem in the marriage they had no chance to try to work it out, but if they KNOW and are going to play doormat in the name of commitment, that party has as much ownership in the disintegration of the marriage as the cheating spouse and other person.   Problems do not get solved with silence!    JMHO

Joan, I am sorry to see you continue to shift the blame from you to him or his wife.  We are not excusing them from their part, but they are not the one who came here for help.  Most attempts at helping you have failed because you will never truly accept your part in this mess.  Your stock answer seems to be "Yes, BUT".  The yes is immediately negated by the BUT, but we are different but we have been doing it for 17 years but he has left her many times before but blah, blah.blah The truth is that you are having a run of the mill, sordid affair with a married man.  Nothing special, nothing earth shattering, just plain ordinary cheating and lying.  You can dress it up all you want with "it has been 17 years" and he spends a lot of time with me, and he has left her several times, etc…  but it is still the same old shit.  If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it is still a duck. I see little hope that you will ever improve your life until you take responsibility for your actions. sam Be careful that the toes you step on today are not attached to the body of the a** you have to kiss tomorrow.    (anonymous)

Response:

I’m sorry, she told you a PRIEST told her that her adultry was OK?? What type of priest would say talk about church reform!!!)

A catholic priest,but she is the one that said this,not sure if I believe her. You say she is a reformed hooker, no disrespect but was your husband a

client?? My husband did not knew about it,she present herself as a very ordinary and honest person. I had someone check her past. Elise

Response:

I’m sorry, she told you a PRIEST told her that her adultry was OK?? What type of preist woudl say talk about church reform!!!) You say she is a reformed hooker, no disrespect but was your husband a client??

Response:

—-A marriage is the responsibility of the 2 people in it.  Period. Temptations, just like when watching calories, can, of course, sneak up on you, but that is NO excuse. Fidelity is a choice.  I repeat… fidelity is a CHOICE. We need to place the blame where it belongs.  If you are a married man and some lovely woman gives you a wink, I thought you were supposed to remember that YOU ARE MARRIED.  If you are a married woman and a "bigger, better deal" comes down the pike….should you cash in your chips over that as well?  I think not. What I am tired of is people NOT owning responsibility for their actions.

Matt, I was about to answer some of the recent posts to my thread "Taking a Chance" but what you said here says so much of some of my feelings. I knew he was married and I chose to let it continue.   I’m not free of responsibility, not by a long shot, but I’ve felt like most of the responses have sort of put the spouse who cheats on some pedestal like it was the bad other woman/man that destroyed the marriage.    I know it didn’t help, that’s for sure, but something had to be missing at home, or problems had to exist in the marriage, for him to have decided to pursue this emotionally as well as physically, especially for 17 years. It’s easy to blame another person for destroying a marriage, but as you said it takes two to make a marriage and the spouse is the one that took the vows, the one that chose to break them.   In my case, the wife has known for over 10 years and she has done NOTHING to confront the problem of me, or the ones in their marriage until he was ready to file papers. I realize some spouses are totally blindsided, have no idea anything is going on and one day they are alone.   Those people I really feel for.   Obviously, if they knew there was a problem in the marriage they had no chance to try to work it out, but if they KNOW and are going to play doormat in the name of commitment, that party has as much ownership in the disintegration of the marriage as the cheating spouse and other person.   Problems do not get solved with silence!    JMHO

Response:

Anybody can sue anyone for anything… doesn’t mean you’ll win though. Your best shot (and it’s not a slam-dunk) would be to simply go for the money he was misusing on her. The "emotional distress" stuff is a lot more iffy, IMO. This seems fairly good advice, but how can you word that in a divorce settlement??

Most states have provisions to deal with misuse of marital funds. If you can prove it, you will get it added to your half of the split. Perhaps if he really did use the money on her the best way to go is a Civil (why is it called that??) suit not connected to the divorce?

That was my original assumption. Then again one could argue here that if you she knew the money was continually being misused why did she give it to him in the first place?

I don’t know that she knew WHAT he was doing with the money. Like my x2b, she "didn’t pay the bills" and used THAT money to rent the lovenest.

Response:

First I have to make something clear. She came to my house,but in my art gallerie(part of the house) My husband was there.I have never saw her or talk to her before the break up. She knew who I was,knew he was married. She saw the big house,what she image the big pension ,because he was an ex-employee of the government. I since then learn she was a reform ?..street walker.When she had the affair with my husband, she was in religion,   and supposingly a priest had told her it was ok .(that she told me ,in that phone call after they got busted. I never knew they were together and that for seven months. She is 53 years old and have no security and is looking for it . She is now doing it to someone else and I want to stop her. Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody can sue anyone for anything… doesn’t mean you’ll win though. Your best shot (and it’s not a slam-dunk) would be to simply go for the money he was misusing on her. The "emotional distress" stuff is a lot more iffy, IMO. This seems fairly good advice, but how can you word that in a divorce settlement?? Perhaps if he really did use the money on her the best way to go is a Civil (why is it called that??) suit not connected to the divorce? Then again one could argue here that if you she knew the money was continually being misused why did she give it to him in the first place? (just playing Devils Advocate here)

Response:

Anybody can sue anyone for anything… doesn’t mean you’ll win though. Your best shot (and it’s not a slam-dunk) would be to simply go for the money he was misusing on her. The "emotional distress" stuff is a lot more iffy, IMO.

This seems fairly good advice, but how can you word that in a divorce settlement?? Perhaps if he really did use the money on her the best way to go is a Civil (why is it called that??) suit not connected to the divorce?   Then again one could argue here that if you she knew the money was continually being misused why did she give it to him in the first place? (just playing Devils Advocate here)

Response:

but not nearly as responsible as the one who took the vows! Lori Mc

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the third party is also responsible. I would like to read about that case, too, as a mistress shouldn’t be held accountable for a marriage on the fritz:  here’s why: —-Did the mistress even KNOW that the man she was seeing / sleeping with was even married?  Men will lie through their teeth to get in the sack….and what, exactly, makes this woman a "mistress" anyway?  Was she even aware that she HAD that title??? —-A marriage is the responsibility of the 2 people in it.  Period. Temptations, just like when watching calories, can, of course, sneak up on you, but that is NO excuse.  Fidelity is a choice.  I repeat… fidelity is a CHOICE. —-If this "mistress" damaged any property or made threats, then certainly she is answerable to the law.  But surely she can’t be held accountable for sleeping with the man, as she has NO part in the marriage, and ISN’T accountable. We need to place the blame where it belongs.  If you are a married man and some lovely woman gives you a wink, I thought you were supposed to remember that YOU ARE MARRIED.  If you are a married woman and a "bigger, better deal" comes down the pike….should you cash in your chips over that as well?  I think not. What I am tired of is people NOT owning responsibility for their actions.  I would say the vast majority of women are smart enough to stay clear of married men.  Those who don’t….well, chances are taken, and it’s not the best way to go. It works the other way around, too. Matt

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Response:

Someone in the group know if a wife can sue a mistress. I was paying for both of them for almost a year, she cost me close to 6,000 dollars . She knew my husband was asking me for money,  and had all kind of excuses for it. The day I talked to  her on the phone,  she even asked me for money that he borrowed from  her. How do you think I took that one. Cant write here what I told her. But my question is  there cases were a mistress was sued  for pain and suffering cause to the wife? Denise do you know? Or someone else.

Anybody can sue anyone for anything… doesn’t mean you’ll win though. Your best shot (and it’s not a slam-dunk) would be to simply go for the money he was misusing on her. The "emotional distress" stuff is a lot more iffy, IMO.

Response:

I think the third party is also responsible.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to read about that case, too, as a mistress shouldn’t be held accountable for a marriage on the fritz:  here’s why: —-Did the mistress even KNOW that the man she was seeing / sleeping with was even married?  Men will lie through their teeth to get in the sack….and what, exactly, makes this woman a "mistress" anyway?  Was she even aware that she HAD that title??? —-A marriage is the responsibility of the 2 people in it.  Period. Temptations, just like when watching calories, can, of course, sneak up on you, but that is NO excuse.  Fidelity is a choice.  I repeat… fidelity is a CHOICE. —-If this "mistress" damaged any property or made threats, then certainly she is answerable to the law.  But surely she can’t be held accountable for sleeping with the man, as she has NO part in the marriage, and ISN’T accountable. We need to place the blame where it belongs.  If you are a married man and some lovely woman gives you a wink, I thought you were supposed to remember that YOU ARE MARRIED.  If you are a married woman and a "bigger, better deal" comes down the pike….should you cash in your chips over that as well?  I think not. What I am tired of is people NOT owning responsibility for their actions.  I would say the vast majority of women are smart enough to stay clear of married men.  Those who don’t….well, chances are taken, and it’s not the best way to go. It works the other way around, too. Matt

Response:

    It went out in Nebraska in July of 1986. Alienation of affection, contested divorces, anything that allowed you to seek retribution of any kind from your spouse or the other person all went out the door that day. So if you live in Nebraska, the answer is no. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where do you live, Elise? The laws on this vary from State to State. Denise Someone in the group know if a wife can sue a mistress. I was paying for both of them for almost a year, she cost me close to 6,000 dollars . She knew my husband was asking me for money,  and had all kind of excuses for it. The day I talked to  her on the phone,  she even asked me for money that he borrowed from  her. How do you think I took that one. Cant write here what I told her. But my question is  there cases were a mistress was sued  for pain and suffering cause to the wife? Denise do you know? Or someone else. Elise

Response:

I would like to read about that case, too, as a mistress shouldn’t be held accountable for a marriage on the fritz:  here’s why: —-Did the mistress even KNOW that the man she was seeing / sleeping with was even married?  Men will lie through their teeth to get in the sack….and what, exactly, makes this woman a "mistress" anyway?  Was she even aware that she HAD that title??? —-A marriage is the responsibility of the 2 people in it.  Period. Temptations, just like when watching calories, can, of course, sneak up on you, but that is NO excuse.  Fidelity is a choice.  I repeat… fidelity is a CHOICE. —-If this "mistress" damaged any property or made threats, then certainly she is answerable to the law.  But surely she can’t be held accountable for sleeping with the man, as she has NO part in the marriage, and ISN’T accountable. We need to place the blame where it belongs.  If you are a married man and some lovely woman gives you a wink, I thought you were supposed to remember that YOU ARE MARRIED.  If you are a married woman and a "bigger, better deal" comes down the pike….should you cash in your chips over that as well?  I think not. What I am tired of is people NOT owning responsibility for their actions.  I would say the vast majority of women are smart enough to stay clear of married men.  Those who don’t….well, chances are taken, and it’s not the best way to go.   It works the other way around, too. Matt

Response:

i  live in missouri and would like to know that answer myself

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But my question is  there cases were a mistress was sued  for pain and suffering cause to the wife? I’ve heard on the news about at least one case that was brought against a mistress by a former wife and was won. It was in one of the Carolinas. I imagine it would depend on the state you’re in. The laws are different everywhere. Tracey

Response:

Elise, I believe you can sue a mistress for "alienation of affection." But the best advice I can give you is to ask an attorney.  Most lawyers offer free consultation.  You can probably get your question answered over the phone. Greg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone in the group know if a wife can sue a mistress. I was paying for both of them for almost a year, she cost me close to 6,000 dollars . She knew my husband was asking me for money,  and had all kind of excuses for it. The day I talked to  her on the phone,  she even asked me for money that he borrowed from  her. How do you think I took that one. Cant write here what I told her. But my question is  there cases were a mistress was sued  for pain and suffering cause to the wife? Denise do you know? Or someone else. Elise

Response:

alienation of affection would be one offence/defence in a weirdo court of no common sense…which many are……but i would wonder why you served in – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone in the group know if a wife can sue a mistress. I was paying for both of them for almost a year, she cost me close to 6,000 dollars . She knew my husband was asking me for money,  and had all kind of excuses for it. The day I talked to  her on the phone,  she even asked me for money that he borrowed from  her. How do you think I took that one. Cant write here what I told her. But my question is  there cases were a mistress was sued  for pain and suffering cause to the wife? Denise do you know? Or someone else. Elise

Response:

Where do you live, Elise? The laws on this vary from State to State. Denise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone in the group know if a wife can sue a mistress. I was paying for both of them for almost a year, she cost me close to 6,000 dollars . She knew my husband was asking me for money,  and had all kind of excuses for it. The day I talked to  her on the phone,  she even asked me for money that he borrowed from  her. How do you think I took that one. Cant write here what I told her. But my question is  there cases were a mistress was sued  for pain and suffering cause to the wife? Denise do you know? Or someone else. Elise

Response:

Someone in the group know if a wife can sue a mistress. I was paying for both of them for almost a year, she cost me close to 6,000 dollars . She knew my husband was asking me for money,  and had all kind of excuses for it. The day I talked to  her on the phone,  she even asked me for money that he borrowed from  her. How do you think I took that one. Cant write here what I told her. But my question is  there cases were a mistress was sued  for pain and suffering cause to the wife? Denise do you know? Or someone else. Elise

Response:

But my question is  there cases were a mistress was sued  for pain and suffering cause to the wife?

I’ve heard on the news about at least one case that was brought against a mistress by a former wife and was won. It was in one of the Carolinas. I imagine it would depend on the state you’re in. The laws are different everywhere. Tracey

Response:

Dogs and flying

Question:

my dog is a pilot

Your dog is a pilot!?  You let your dog fly an expensive airplane like an MU-2!? Well, if the other poster didn’t have to read a whole article I don’t see any reason why I should have to read a whole post.  <grin Sorry, couldn’t resist. –TWH –PP-ASEL

Response:

I’m not so sure… I think that he is under the impression that my dog is a pilot since he quotes noise levels for the cockpit seats (in a different model of airplane).  If Yukon lives to see his seventeenth birthday and gets his certificate, I will certainly get him a headset. Mike MU-2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, I think we have a case of plane-envy here from Mssr. Jamie.  He’s clearly jealous as hell.  :) -Ryan Neither.  You would think that someone would read at least one whole article before passing themselves off as knowledgeable on a subject.  Good hunting :-) Mike MU-2 If your dogs want to go fast, quiet and high it will cost them an additional $500k to get a Marquise. My springer spaniels prefer to hunt…running on the ground… Last comment: Does all that MU-2 noise and vibration, either intrude on the owner’s considerable ego…or shake off the gold plating?

Response:

My springer spaniels prefer to hunt…running on the ground… Last comment:   Does all that MU-2 noise and vibration, either intrude on the owner’s considerable ego…or shake off the gold plating?

Pardon the butt-in…but from where I’m standing, it looks like you’re the one with some issues. You assumed a confrontational stance from post one. You do seem to have the proper kind of dogs, though. If it doesn’t hunt, it just a biscuit eater. Springers are best. :-) Fidel (dis-interested bystander)

Response:

When I flew a B-47 from North Africa back to the states, this guy talked me into taking his dog with me.