Question:

One of the chairs has been blown over on it’s back, the other drips water.  Wind blown rain, mixed with sleet rides the gusts of wind that hammer at the cave opening.  The stone ring fire pit is a lake of black, white flecked water, rippling with each renewed gust of wind. The furs that covered the chairs lie on the stone floor, sodden lumps, where they landed when the storm reached its fury.  Rivulets of water run across the floor in an uneven spider web , always seeking the low point.  Some of it runs back into the dark shadows where the water jugs and piled fire wood is, others bravely head back to the mouth of the cave and the maelstrom. Far below, the valley stream shows up in the gray darkness of storm as a faint white blur.  In the moments when the wind drops below howling, the muted roar of the stream is heard.  The water is well up its banks, in the low spots it spreads out above the edge pulling at the meadow grasses, stripping away the layers that hold the banks in place.  Inevitably the mud gives way, abraded, falling in, turning the water foam brown.  The roar of rocks crashing in the stream bed has replaced the gentle song of rustling gravel. An uprooted tree, it’s crown of root preceding it rides majestically down the current only to be hung against the boulders where the stream turns and begins it’s decent to the roaring falls at the end of the valley.  The water lashes against the trunk till all that shows is the gnarled roots, radiating like a drowning sun in the white/brown torrent. The wind and the lashing rain have flattened the meadow, a matted mass of grasses and early spring flowers, dark green with flecks of purple, yellow and drowned white.  Higher up, at the beginning of the slope, torn branches litter the ground, victims of the wind and rain.  The low rock rills leading up into the woods are filled with water rushing headlong down into the valley.  The places were tree limbs have fallen and detritus carried down have formed dams, small pools form, peaceful in the torment. High on the ridge tops wind torn clouds collide with the bare stone, spill rain and disappear.  It has been this way for a day.  The wind continues to scrape across the ridgeline, the tall trees below carrying the sound of freight cars running at speed.  The watercourse in the valley floor throws the sound of crashing rock, foam filled cascades up to meet the wind. There is no peace in the cave.  Wind howls, scraping its way across the entrance and the sound of water born fury lashes against the ceiling filling every cranny with chaotic fury. — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

Hi jeeco, I so envy where you are.  Not because of the lack of peace you feel there, but – all that is outside, you know?  I sat in my room day before last, listening to the rain outside.  At one point it had been falling hard enough so I couldn’t see the road as I drove, and now it was just a torrent.  It was cold outside, chilly, wet, and I thought about how much I love days like this and how guilty I feel about that because of the homeless people. I listened to car tires screech on the unfamiliarly wet roads, listened to them bleat their horns at one another. I curled up under my comforter with a book and thought, that’s all *outside. You know? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the chairs has been blown over on it’s back, the other drips water.  Wind blown rain, mixed with sleet rides the gusts of wind that hammer at the cave opening.  The stone ring fire pit is a lake of black, white flecked water, rippling with each renewed gust of wind. The furs that covered the chairs lie on the stone floor, sodden lumps, where they landed when the storm reached its fury.  Rivulets of water run across the floor in an uneven spider web , always seeking the low point.  Some of it runs back into the dark shadows where the water jugs and piled fire wood is, others bravely head back to the mouth of the cave and the maelstrom. Far below, the valley stream shows up in the gray darkness of storm as a faint white blur.  In the moments when the wind drops below howling, the muted roar of the stream is heard.  The water is well up its banks, in the low spots it spreads out above the edge pulling at the meadow grasses, stripping away the layers that hold the banks in place.  Inevitably the mud gives way, abraded, falling in, turning the water foam brown.  The roar of rocks crashing in the stream bed has replaced the gentle song of rustling gravel. An uprooted tree, it’s crown of root preceding it rides majestically down the current only to be hung against the boulders where the stream turns and begins it’s decent to the roaring falls at the end of the valley.  The water lashes against the trunk till all that shows is the gnarled roots, radiating like a drowning sun in the white/brown torrent. The wind and the lashing rain have flattened the meadow, a matted mass of grasses and early spring flowers, dark green with flecks of purple, yellow and drowned white.  Higher up, at the beginning of the slope, torn branches litter the ground, victims of the wind and rain.  The low rock rills leading up into the woods are filled with water rushing headlong down into the valley.  The places were tree limbs have fallen and detritus carried down have formed dams, small pools form, peaceful in the torment. High on the ridge tops wind torn clouds collide with the bare stone, spill rain and disappear.  It has been this way for a day.  The wind continues to scrape across the ridgeline, the tall trees below carrying the sound of freight cars running at speed.  The watercourse in the valley floor throws the sound of crashing rock, foam filled cascades up to meet the wind. There is no peace in the cave.  Wind howls, scraping its way across the entrance and the sound of water born fury lashes against the ceiling filling every cranny with chaotic fury. — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

Question:

<smile Thank you Jeeco, I’ll sit here awhile and sip this cup of delicious coffee, and just let the world pass me by for a little while. Ruth

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you for this Jeeco, it is a strong reminder of why I come here and find it difficult to leave. I hope you don’t mind if I sit awhile in the cave and recuperate. Ruth I’m sincerly honored. jeeco rosee, Perhaps in the busy days ahead, with all the concerns for your daughter and family sorrows, you can find time to visit again. It is there if you need it.  Just leave some muffins, eh? In the stillness, tendrils of fog ebb and flow in the mouth of the cave.  The wisps advance on muffled feet only to retreat when the fire in the stone ring flares momentarily as the logs settle in to the ash. Water drips down from the overhang on the scree field below the ledge unseen, swallowed up in the depthless wall of white mist. Outside the entrance there is no definition, just misty gray. Inside, just under the lip of stone ceiling, sit the two adirondak chairs covered in white bear skin. Further in, the stone circle holds the fire warming the walls with dancing light.  The two carbon stained metal pots, their bails folded back away from the flame, keep the coffee and chocolate hot, there for the person stubborn enough to find their way back again. Above the cave, up on the ridge top, the sun shines brilliant with the reflection of the mist shrouded valley floor.  It is quiet. The mist muffling the sounds of stone rolling in the stream, the call of birds waiting for the sun to burn off the mist.  This is a time when heart beats sound like drums reminding us that we are alive.  Each beat a celebration of life, of purpose, of harmony with our world. Soon the sun will burn the mist down to the valley floor, the tress tops will emerge as individual spires merging into one.  The water coming down from the snows will join and join till it dashes over the rocks in a head long rush to find the stream.  There it will give voice adding a bass line to the songs of birds, the soft whistle of tree limbs in the wind until it roars it’s way over the high falls and out of the valley to it’s destiny. Tendrils of mist rise like wraiths from the forest floor, climbing and fading in the sun.  Tomorrow the mist will be back for it is that season when change is the driving force.  Morning mist will herald the warming of the earth, the flow of energy returning after the winters cold, bleak days. A good time to sit, listen to one’s heart and celebrate lives past and future [snip] — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

*Damn, I thought I sent this days ago.  I put it in my drafts folder, instead!  I hate when I do that!*

Ahhh!  So other people do it too! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the cold, lonely hours, before dawn, finding a place where there is refuge, from the cruel twists of fate, is a rare and treasured thing.  On the, seemingly, endless nights, such as these, the light glowing at the mouth of this cave, shines like a beacon, with the promise of safe harbour. A place of peace, a place where comfort is given, a place where a weary soul can find rest. Sitting there, a cup of coffee in hand, a plate of fresh muffins warming beside the fire, watching as the firelight reflects in the eyes of my friend, it helps to remind me that there is good, in this world. Thank you, my friend.

I’m a bit surprised and want to look over my shoulder to see who is being spoken to when gratitude or praise comes my way, but I’ll buckle up and simply say….. Thank you. After all you did bring fresh, warm, muffins ; ) I hope things are going a bit smoother. jeeco – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rosee rosee, Perhaps in the busy days ahead, with all the concerns for your daughter and family sorrows, you can find time to visit again.  It is there if you need it.  Just leave some muffins, eh? In the stillness, tendrils of fog ebb and flow in the mouth of the cave.  The wisps advance on muffled feet only to retreat when the fire in the stone ring flares momentarily as the logs settle in to the ash. Water drips down from the overhang on the scree field below the ledge unseen, swallowed up in the depthless wall of white mist. Outside the entrance there is no definition, just misty gray. Inside, just under the lip of stone ceiling, sit the two adirondak chairs covered in white bear skin. Further in, the stone circle holds the fire warming the walls with dancing light.  The two carbon stained metal pots, their bails folded back away from the flame, keep the coffee and chocolate hot, there for the person stubborn enough to find their way back again. Above the cave, up on the ridge top, the sun shines brilliant with the reflection of the mist shrouded valley floor.  It is quiet.  The mist muffling the sounds of stone rolling in the stream, the call of birds waiting for the sun to burn off the mist.  This is a time when heart beats sound like drums reminding us that we are alive.  Each beat a celebration of life, of purpose, of harmony with our world. Soon the sun will burn the mist down to the valley floor, the tress tops will emerge as individual spires merging into one.  The water coming down from the snows will join and join till it dashes over the rocks in a head long rush to find the stream.  There it will give voice adding a bass line to the songs of birds, the soft whistle of tree limbs in the wind until it roars it’s way over the high falls and out of the valley to it’s destiny. Tendrils of mist rise like wraiths from the forest floor, climbing and fading in the sun.  Tomorrow the mist will be back for it is that season when change is the driving force.  Morning mist will herald the warming of the earth, the flow of energy returning after the winters cold, bleak days. A good time to sit, listen to one’s heart and celebrate lives past and future

[snip] — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

*Damn, I thought I sent this days ago.  I put it in my drafts folder, instead!  I hate when I do that!* In the cold, lonely hours, before dawn, finding a place where there is refuge, from the cruel twists of fate, is a rare and treasured thing.  On the, seemingly, endless nights, such as these, the light glowing at the mouth of this cave, shines like a beacon, with the promise of safe harbour. A place of peace, a place where comfort is given, a place where a weary soul can find rest. Sitting there, a cup of coffee in hand, a plate of fresh muffins warming beside the fire, watching as the firelight reflects in the eyes of my friend, it helps to remind me that there is good, in this world. Thank you, my friend. rosee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rosee, Perhaps in the busy days ahead, with all the concerns for your daughter and family sorrows, you can find time to visit again.  It is there if you need it.  Just leave some muffins, eh? In the stillness, tendrils of fog ebb and flow in the mouth of the cave.  The wisps advance on muffled feet only to retreat when the fire in the stone ring flares momentarily as the logs settle in to the ash. Water drips down from the overhang on the scree field below the ledge unseen, swallowed up in the depthless wall of white mist. Outside the entrance there is no definition, just misty gray.  Inside, just under the lip of stone ceiling, sit the two adirondak chairs covered in white bear skin. Further in, the stone circle holds the fire warming the walls with dancing light.  The two carbon stained metal pots, their bails folded back away from the flame, keep the coffee and chocolate hot, there for the person stubborn enough to find their way back again. Above the cave, up on the ridge top, the sun shines brilliant with the reflection of the mist shrouded valley floor.  It is quiet.  The mist muffling the sounds of stone rolling in the stream, the call of birds waiting for the sun to burn off the mist.  This is a time when heart beats sound like drums reminding us that we are alive.  Each beat a celebration of life, of purpose, of harmony with our world. Soon the sun will burn the mist down to the valley floor, the tress tops will emerge as individual spires merging into one.  The water coming down from the snows will join and join till it dashes over the rocks in a head long rush to find the stream.  There it will give voice adding a bass line to the songs of birds, the soft whistle of tree limbs in the wind until it roars it’s way over the high falls and out of the valley to it’s destiny. Tendrils of mist rise like wraiths from the forest floor, climbing and fading in the sun.  Tomorrow the mist will be back for it is that season when change is the driving force.  Morning mist will herald the warming of the earth, the flow of energy returning after the winters cold, bleak days. A good time to sit, listen to one’s heart and celebrate lives past and future. — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

rosee, Perhaps in the busy days ahead, with all the concerns for your daughter and family sorrows, you can find time to visit again.  It is there if you need it.  Just leave some muffins, eh? In the stillness, tendrils of fog ebb and flow in the mouth of the cave.  The wisps advance on muffled feet only to retreat when the fire in the stone ring flares momentarily as the logs settle in to the ash. Water drips down from the overhang on the scree field below the ledge unseen, swallowed up in the depthless wall of white mist. Outside the entrance there is no definition, just misty gray.  Inside, just under the lip of stone ceiling, sit the two adirondak chairs covered in white bear skin. Further in, the stone circle holds the fire warming the walls with dancing light.  The two carbon stained metal pots, their bails folded back away from the flame, keep the coffee and chocolate hot, there for the person stubborn enough to find their way back again. Above the cave, up on the ridge top, the sun shines brilliant with the reflection of the mist shrouded valley floor.  It is quiet.  The mist muffling the sounds of stone rolling in the stream, the call of birds waiting for the sun to burn off the mist.  This is a time when heart beats sound like drums reminding us that we are alive.  Each beat a celebration of life, of purpose, of harmony with our world. Soon the sun will burn the mist down to the valley floor, the tress tops will emerge as individual spires merging into one.  The water coming down from the snows will join and join till it dashes over the rocks in a head long rush to find the stream.  There it will give voice adding a bass line to the songs of birds, the soft whistle of tree limbs in the wind until it roars it’s way over the high falls and out of the valley to it’s destiny. Tendrils of mist rise like wraiths from the forest floor, climbing and fading in the sun.  Tomorrow the mist will be back for it is that season when change is the driving force.  Morning mist will herald the warming of the earth, the flow of energy returning after the winters cold, bleak days. A good time to sit, listen to one’s heart and celebrate lives past and future. — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

Jeeco, thank you for this – I know Rosee will enjoy reading it as much as I have, only last week I heard of the death of my cousin in Canada, and whilst I’m still stunned, what you have written here is just so beautiful, and restful, and I know Rosee will feel the peace and the love that the words bring as indeed I have this evening too. Peace to you Lindsey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rosee, Perhaps in the busy days ahead, with all the concerns for your daughter and family sorrows, you can find time to visit again.  It is there if you need it.  Just leave some muffins, eh? In the stillness, tendrils of fog ebb and flow in the mouth of the cave.  The wisps advance on muffled feet only to retreat when the fire in the stone ring flares momentarily as the logs settle in to the ash. Water drips down from the overhang on the scree field below the ledge unseen, swallowed up in the depthless wall of white mist. Outside the entrance there is no definition, just misty gray.  Inside, just under the lip of stone ceiling, sit the two adirondak chairs covered in white bear skin. Further in, the stone circle holds the fire warming the walls with dancing light.  The two carbon stained metal pots, their bails folded back away from the flame, keep the coffee and chocolate hot, there for the person stubborn enough to find their way back again. Above the cave, up on the ridge top, the sun shines brilliant with the reflection of the mist shrouded valley floor.  It is quiet.  The mist muffling the sounds of stone rolling in the stream, the call of birds waiting for the sun to burn off the mist.  This is a time when heart beats sound like drums reminding us that we are alive.  Each beat a celebration of life, of purpose, of harmony with our world. Soon the sun will burn the mist down to the valley floor, the tress tops will emerge as individual spires merging into one.  The water coming down from the snows will join and join till it dashes over the rocks in a head long rush to find the stream.  There it will give voice adding a bass line to the songs of birds, the soft whistle of tree limbs in the wind until it roars it’s way over the high falls and out of the valley to it’s destiny. Tendrils of mist rise like wraiths from the forest floor, climbing and fading in the sun.  Tomorrow the mist will be back for it is that season when change is the driving force.  Morning mist will herald the warming of the earth, the flow of energy returning after the winters cold, bleak days. A good time to sit, listen to one’s heart and celebrate lives past and future. — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

Thank you for this Jeeco, it is a strong reminder of why I come here and find it difficult to leave. I hope you don’t mind if I sit awhile in the cave and recuperate. Ruth

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rosee, Perhaps in the busy days ahead, with all the concerns for your daughter and family sorrows, you can find time to visit again. It is there if you need it.  Just leave some muffins, eh? In the stillness, tendrils of fog ebb and flow in the mouth of the cave.  The wisps advance on muffled feet only to retreat when the fire in the stone ring flares momentarily as the logs settle in to the ash. Water drips down from the overhang on the scree field below the ledge unseen, swallowed up in the depthless wall of white mist. Outside the entrance there is no definition, just misty gray. Inside, just under the lip of stone ceiling, sit the two adirondak chairs covered in white bear skin. Further in, the stone circle holds the fire warming the walls with dancing light.  The two carbon stained metal pots, their bails folded back away from the flame, keep the coffee and chocolate hot, there for the person stubborn enough to find their way back again. Above the cave, up on the ridge top, the sun shines brilliant with the reflection of the mist shrouded valley floor.  It is quiet.  The mist muffling the sounds of stone rolling in the stream, the call of birds waiting for the sun to burn off the mist.  This is a time when heart beats sound like drums reminding us that we are alive.  Each beat a celebration of life, of purpose, of harmony with our world. Soon the sun will burn the mist down to the valley floor, the tress tops will emerge as individual spires merging into one.  The water coming down from the snows will join and join till it dashes over the rocks in a head long rush to find the stream.  There it will give voice adding a bass line to the songs of birds, the soft whistle of tree limbs in the wind until it roars it’s way over the high falls and out of the valley to it’s destiny. Tendrils of mist rise like wraiths from the forest floor, climbing and fading in the sun.  Tomorrow the mist will be back for it is that season when change is the driving force.  Morning mist will herald the warming of the earth, the flow of energy returning after the winters cold, bleak days. A good time to sit, listen to one’s heart and celebrate lives past and future. — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

Thank you for this Jeeco, it is a strong reminder of why I come here and find it difficult to leave. I hope you don’t mind if I sit awhile in the cave and recuperate. Ruth

I’m sincerly honored. jeeco – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rosee, Perhaps in the busy days ahead, with all the concerns for your daughter and family sorrows, you can find time to visit again. It is there if you need it.  Just leave some muffins, eh? In the stillness, tendrils of fog ebb and flow in the mouth of the cave.  The wisps advance on muffled feet only to retreat when the fire in the stone ring flares momentarily as the logs settle in to the ash. Water drips down from the overhang on the scree field below the ledge unseen, swallowed up in the depthless wall of white mist. Outside the entrance there is no definition, just misty gray. Inside, just under the lip of stone ceiling, sit the two adirondak chairs covered in white bear skin. Further in, the stone circle holds the fire warming the walls with dancing light.  The two carbon stained metal pots, their bails folded back away from the flame, keep the coffee and chocolate hot, there for the person stubborn enough to find their way back again. Above the cave, up on the ridge top, the sun shines brilliant with the reflection of the mist shrouded valley floor.  It is quiet.  The mist muffling the sounds of stone rolling in the stream, the call of birds waiting for the sun to burn off the mist.  This is a time when heart beats sound like drums reminding us that we are alive.  Each beat a celebration of life, of purpose, of harmony with our world. Soon the sun will burn the mist down to the valley floor, the tress tops will emerge as individual spires merging into one.  The water coming down from the snows will join and join till it dashes over the rocks in a head long rush to find the stream.  There it will give voice adding a bass line to the songs of birds, the soft whistle of tree limbs in the wind until it roars it’s way over the high falls and out of the valley to it’s destiny. Tendrils of mist rise like wraiths from the forest floor, climbing and fading in the sun.  Tomorrow the mist will be back for it is that season when change is the driving force.  Morning mist will herald the warming of the earth, the flow of energy returning after the winters cold, bleak days. A good time to sit, listen to one’s heart and celebrate lives past and future

[snip] — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

Question:

We just moved into this house a month ago.  We hav two fountains outside. One was simple to winterize, the fountain part just came out of the pond part.  The other one is much more difficult. It’s a stone/concrete status that sits in the middle of a stone ring, the ring sits around a sunken pond.  The fountain is in the statue.  It’s a woman holding an urn, and water comes out of the urn, near the top of the statue.  So water goes up through the statue and out, and the intake is under the statue, in its base. We can’t move the statue, it’s just too heavy.  The previous owner said that what he did to winterize it was "drain it, then put some planks down to keep water from getting back into the pump". We’re trying to actually turn that into something that makes sense. We bought a tarp to try and put around it, but we’re having a hard time figuring out how to keep water from getting back inside the pump and freezing it (thus breaking it) this winter. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions for how to handle this? — Siobhan Perricone "The obvious insinuation here is that somehow, homosexual seed pods were smuggled into the Green Mountains under cover of darkness in the back of a Volvo with Jersey plates." – Walter Amses, Times Argus Op-Ed piece

Response:

.. It’s a stone/concrete status that sits in the middle of a stone ring, the ring sits around a sunken pond.  The fountain is in the statue.  It’s a woman holding an urn, and water comes out of the urn, near the top of the statue.  So water goes up through the statue and out, and the intake is under the statue, in its base. … Anyone have any ideas or suggestions for how to handle this?

Blow the lines clear and then pump in some RV antifreeze (NOT!! auto antifreeze) Tom             Need info on COTTAGES and CABINS?                http://www.cottageliving.com

Response:

.. It’s a stone/concrete status that sits in the middle of a stone ring, the ring sits around a sunken pond.  The fountain is in the statue.  It’s a woman holding an urn, and water comes out of the urn, near the top of the statue.  So water goes up through the statue and out, and the intake is under the statue, in its base. … Anyone have any ideas or suggestions for how to handle this? Blow the lines clear and then pump in some RV antifreeze (NOT!! auto antifreeze)

How do I "blow the lines clear"? and how would I get the antifreeze in and keep it in? — Siobhan Perricone "The obvious insinuation here is that somehow, homosexual seed pods were smuggled into the Green Mountains under cover of darkness in the back of a Volvo with Jersey plates." – Walter Amses, Times Argus Op-Ed piece

Response:

…. How do I "blow the lines clear"?

Compressor or hand pump. and how would I get the antifreeze in and keep it in?

Somewhere there must be a valve/drain/tap.  If not, just add some to the water bowls. and pump it through. Tom             Need info on COTTAGES and CABINS?                http://www.cottageliving.com

Response:

Question:

Thanks for all the good tips. I appreciate the feedback. Any more ideas are certainly welcome! Standard Disclaimer #143:  I am not a doctor, blah blah blah… I am not giving medical advice, I am only giving testimony based on my experiences. Each person is responsible for what they do with information gathered. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Well, I comparison shopped for a month or so before buying wedding rings, and ours were 3mm 14K gold for $40 each (yes, he happens to wear the same ring size as I do, so his ring and mine are identical).  Granted, this was at JCPenney’s, but Michael’s (a "real" jewelry-only store) had the same ring and price (they didn’t happen to have any in stock the day we finally wanted to take them home, or we would have bought there).  I gather that this is fairly cheap, so I wanted to mention that you don’t *have* to pay $100/up if you don’t want to, at least for simple gold bands.   Tasha (the second, apparently!)

Response:

1) I’d like to know, what is the AVERAGE a guy is supposed to spend on an engagement ring and on wedding bands? I’ve heard the "2 months’ salary" rule, but I’m sure that was created by the DeBeers diamond industry! You’ve GOT to be kidding… Unless you make so much money that 2 months’ salary is NO problem, you’d have to be nuts to spend that much on a ring! Just my opinion… So, what is the average that a guy who only makes $45k/year (not much, living in L.A.!)  should spend on a wedding ring? My fiancee’ would prefer a diamond solitaire type ring. I want to get something that looks good to the naked eye, and won’t break, but it doesn’t have to be real big or "perfect" under a microscope!

First of all, there is no set amount you should spend on a ring.  I woudl suggest buying a ring you can afford fairly easily.  I would recommend being able to pay cash for it (not pay it out for a year after she’s been wearing it).  I would go for quality, not size.  If your fiancee would like a solitaire, I would just start looking at solitaire rings.  Does she prefer yellow gold or white gold?  That is another consideration.  Yellow gold is more classic, but white gold or platinum is the trend these days since many women wear silver a lot.  There are 4 factors to look at when looking for a diamond — clarity, color, cut, and carat.  I think the most important and visible is color, but that is my opinion.  You have to look at many diamonds (preferably loose) to decide what is most important.  I would get her a smaller really good quality diamond before I would even look at larger diamonds. 2) How much will I need to spend on gold wedding bands? Again, I don’t want to buy "cheap" stuff – I want the rings to be nice. But on the other hand I don’t want to go hogwild…

Our bands were $80 a piece.  This is something you can get later and shop around for together.  Our are 4mm yellow gold comfort fit bands. You can get wedding bands pretty cheaply.  It is the symbolism that really counts. Since I’m getting married in Mexico, (to a Mexican woman), would I save money buy buying a ring in Mexico, or would I sacrifice quality by doing so? What is best – buying from a small jewelry store or from a big "Jewelry Exchange" or "Jewelry Mart" type super-store? What quality/grade diamond will I be looking for? How do I know it’s a good one?

I would probably stay away from Mexico because you can’t trust them all the time.  We like small local stores, but they will not have as many diamonds to look at.  I would go with a regional store, maybe.  That is where all our rings came from (Americus Diamond).  They should have lots of diamonds to look at and choose from.  They can explain more about the quality.  You can be sure you are getting what you paid for if the diamond is GIA certified.  If it is not, the jeweler can pretty much tell you whatever he wants.  There are papers that come with GIA certified diamonds that have all the specs including a drawing with all the inclusions, etc…  You should also receive an appraisal when you buy the diamond for insurenace purposes. I hope this helps and didn’t just confuse you more.  Good Luck.  The best advice I can give is shop around until you are absolutely sure, and it doesn’t matter how big it is — she will know you love her just as much.  DON’T GO INTO DEBT OVER THIS RING — YOU DO STILL HAVE A WEDDING AND A LIFE TO PLAN TOGETHER!! Kelli

Response:

Hi, I’m new to this board and to the whole concept of marriage. I know NOTHING about buying engagement rings. Never planned to get married, but now that I’ve found the right woman I find myself researching wedding-related topics! 1) I’d like to know, what is the AVERAGE a guy is supposed to spend on an engagement ring and on wedding bands? I’ve heard the "2 months’ salary" rule, but I’m sure that was created by the DeBeers diamond industry! You’ve GOT to be kidding… Unless you make so much money that 2 months’ salary is NO problem, you’d have to be nuts to spend that much on a ring! Just my opinion… So, what is the average that a guy who only makes $45k/year (not much, living in L.A.!)  should spend on a wedding ring? My fiancee’ would prefer a diamond solitaire type ring. I want to get something that looks good to the naked eye, and won’t break, but it doesn’t have to be real big or "perfect" under a microscope! 2) How much will I need to spend on gold wedding bands? Again, I don’t want to buy "cheap" stuff – I want the rings to be nice. But on the other hand I don’t want to go hogwild… Since I’m getting married in Mexico, (to a Mexican woman), would I save money buy buying a ring in Mexico, or would I sacrifice quality by doing so? What is best – buying from a small jewelry store or from a big "Jewelry Exchange" or "Jewelry Mart" type super-store? What quality/grade diamond will I be looking for? How do I know it’s a good one? Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks! Any advice/ideas would be appreciated. Standard Disclaimer #143:  I am not a doctor, blah blah blah… I am not giving medical advice, I am only giving testimony based on my experiences. Each person is responsible for what they do with information gathered. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Cubic Zirconia you should be able to find extremely cheaply…I bought 2 1ct each stones (which look great!) for some studs since I can’t afford the real thing right now and they were $5 each. . .  If you’re in the NYC area and interested, let me know because there’s a great place on 47th St. (but it is not on the street).  I work in the diamond district and we go there (not for our customers, but when we want something nice mounted w/o spending the money)… Mountings should cost you between $225 and 300 (depends on plat or gold or white gold), but not everyone will mount a CZ — find a good mounting house in your area.   Also, anyone that has really expensive studs or even a diamond engagement ring… a lot of our customers who have huge stones (I’ve seen rings with 8ct stones in them — huge!!!) who are planning on taking a vacation sometimes get the same thing mounted with a CZ to take instead, just in case. Just something to think about. Jessica www.jessicaweiser.com

Response:

I would probably stay away from Mexico because you can’t trust them all the time.

Erm, just don’t mention to his future wife and in-laws that you can’t trust those Mexicans! After all, I presume he’ll want to be trusting his Mexican wife and potentially her Mexican family. Please be careful when making statements such as this. Insulting a whole country of people by stating they are untrustworthy is just not nice! That said, I don’t know anything about diamond buying in Mexico. I’ve not heard of it being a great place to get bargains on diamonds (eg compared to some other countries). In general, presuming you’re not living there now, I’d buy closer to home, that way you can go back to the shop if needbe for alterations, or can go a few times before you make any final buying decisions. I’m of the mind to get her to help you pick it out, as she’ll be wearing it. C. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

my suggestion to you is to try a pawn shop…..they have genuine diamonds and gold bands…the price will probably be just right for you too.  Check out estate auctions as well, you never know what you might find there. Good Luck and congratulations…I am also engaged and my husband-to-be is going into the navy.  I am excited and our wedding is almost a year away….I already have butterflies..lol.  Anyway best of luck to you both!!! Shell

Response:

My fiancee’ has requested that I pick out the ring and "surprise" her. We did look at some and she indicated she preferred a solitaire diamond. However, I am going to try to get her to go look at some more with me, and maybe change her mind, at least give me an idea of the cut she likes and the syle of band she likes… As to color, cut, clarity and all that, I am getting a book highly recommended on Amazon.com… Hovever, the main problem I have is price. I really cannot afford more than a grand or so, and I dont know if one can buy a decent diamond ring for that…

My ring cost under 500 NZD, which in terms of buying power in the two countries, is probably under $350 USD, and it’s the most beautiful ring I’ve ever seen.  :-)  It’s not a diamond ring, but I think it looks much nicer than anything I’ve seen in a museum and anything else I saw in a jewellery shop.  Hopefully your fiancee shares my taste for simplicity.   Slightly more seriously, what determines the price of the ring is not so much its aesthetic appearance as the rarity of the stone and the expense of crafting the ring.  Larger stones are rarer, thus more expensive, and purer stones, without flaws, are rarer, and thus more expensive.  If you’re going to get detailed goldwork that the jeweller has to do under a microscope it will also cost more, but whether the end result looks better than an elegant plain band is another matter. So, in summary, I suggest stating or at least strongly hinting, at your money constraints to your fiancee, and look for a ring that looks beautiful, instea of trying to get the biggest stone you can afford. You should be able to find something very pleasing without spending vast sums of money.   T.J. — http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~tajwileb/ The right half of the brain controls the left half of the body. This means that only left handed people are in their right mind.

Response:

May I make a suggestion?   You said that money is an issue at the moment because of paying for the wedding.  Rather than buying a diamond you are not happy with, why not choose a nice band, and have it set with a cubic zirconia.  (Not one of the obviously-fake-enormous ones!  You can buy zirconias that are high quality and smaller in size.  There’s a website dedicated to selling them, but I don’t have the address right now. Will post it later if you like.)  The cost would probably be under $300, and you can have the zirconia replaced with a diamond when the money is there… first or fifth anniversary, perhaps. I have no idea how your significant other would feel about this.  Some women might feel cheated or disappointed.  Just a suggestion. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

My fiancee’ has requested that I pick out the ring and "surprise" her. We did look at some and she indicated she preferred a solitaire diamond. However, I am going to try to get her to go look at some more with me, and maybe change her mind, at least give me an idea of the cut she likes and the syle of band she likes… As to color, cut, clarity and all that, I am getting a book highly recommended on Amazon.com… Hovever, the main problem I have is price. I really cannot afford more than a grand or so, and I dont know if one can buy a decent diamond ring for that… The bottom line is, I need to discuss it with her, as due to extenuating circumstances I am "supposed" to pay for most of the wedding and reception as well, and Ii can’t really afford it… So, something’s got to give… Standard Disclaimer #143:  I am not a doctor, blah blah blah… I am not giving medical advice, I am only giving testimony based on my experiences. Each person is responsible for what they do with information gathered. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I am a married woman with very practical ideas, have been married for 23 years to the same man. Please, let your wife pick out her own ring. Do some reading about gold & precious gemstones. It is ridiculous to get caught up in the diamond cartel’s hype.  You should get something that you can afford, that she is happy with.  Unless she wants a diamond, other gemstones are usually less expensive & equally beautiful, so that is something to consider. The reason I am all for the woman getting to choose her own ring is because *she* will be the one wearing it. I am not going to explain all about gold & stones here, it just would take too much time & the info is easily available elsewhere.  I also recommend going into Deja.com (net archival service) & reading in the misc.consumers.frugal-living archives under engagement/ wedding rings.  There is a whole lot of good info there, it will help answer your questions Good luck, may your marriage last forever, with or without diamond rings. Melodi in VA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new to this board and to the whole concept of marriage. I know NOTHING about buying engagement rings. Never planned to get married, but now that I’ve found the right woman I find myself researching wedding-related topics! 1) I’d like to know, what is the AVERAGE a guy is supposed to spend on an engagement ring and on wedding bands? I’ve heard the "2 months’ salary" rule, but I’m sure that was created by the DeBeers diamond industry! You’ve GOT to be kidding… Unless you make so much money that 2 months’ salary is NO problem, you’d have to be nuts to spend that much on a ring! Just my opinion… So, what is the average that a guy who only makes $45k/year (not much, living in L.A.!)  should spend on a wedding ring? My fiancee’ would prefer a diamond solitaire type ring. I want to get something that looks good to the naked eye, and won’t break, but it doesn’t have to be real big or "perfect" under a microscope! 2) How much will I need to spend on gold wedding bands? Again, I don’t want to buy "cheap" stuff – I want the rings to be nice. But on the other hand I don’t want to go hogwild… Since I’m getting married in Mexico, (to a Mexican woman), would I save money buy buying a ring in Mexico, or would I sacrifice quality by doing so? What is best – buying from a small jewelry store or from a big "Jewelry Exchange" or "Jewelry Mart" type super-store? What quality/grade diamond will I be looking for? How do I know it’s a good one? Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks! Any advice/ideas would be appreciated. Standard Disclaimer #143:  I am not a doctor, blah blah blah… I am not giving medical advice, I am only giving testimony based on my experiences. Each person is responsible for what they do with information gathered. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hey there… I work for a diamond wholesaler (we’ve been in business 100 years, and it’s a very well-respected company in the industry and one of the largest)… Anyway, I do sales and work with people (mostly the large retailers–Nordstrom, Neimans, etc.) all day with the same questions you have… If you have any other questions please email me… otherwise, here is my reply to your message — and if anyone else needs advice, help, PLEASE email me! Cause a lot of times retailers *do not* know what they are talking about… and only want to sell sell sell… fiancee’ would prefer a diamond solitaire type ring. I want to get something that looks good to the naked eye, and won’t break, but it doesn’t have to be real big or "perfect" under a microscope!

Alright — definitely find out what she likes and what is most important to her… There are four "C’s" that most people in the industry refer to — color, cut, clarity, and carat weight. Find out (if you can) what SHE likes. Some women will take a diamond that is lower in color (like K–which is not great!) with a huge carat weight… Diamonds are graded like this: Color – range from D-M (or lower) and D is the higest… (and most expensive)… Then there is Clarity: goes from Internally Flawless (no inclusions) all the way down to Imperfect 1, 2, etc.  In my opinion (and based on the work I do), you should either go with high color (like an F/G and a lower clarity like SI1 or 2) or lower the color (to maybe H or I) and make the clarity higher (like VS1 or 2)… The cut has everything to do with how the stone will look… how it sparkles and looks… it is SO important to get a well-cut stone… Look around because some places/retailers don’t stones that are well-cut… If you go to a retailer, dont’ let them talk you in to getting something like a D/VVS1 (one of the best) because you will spend a fortune on something that has barely-visible differences with a stone that is a G/SI1!! Perhaps it will be a little whiter, but for the money, definitely go with a little lower clarity/color. My engagement ring is a 3-stone ring oOo, G/SI1 .90ct center and 2 .26 stones on the side. I love it and I think the cut makes all the different… of course my company is also known for their well-cut stones If you can, try to find a diamond wholesaler in your area.  Unfortunately my company is private, so we deal with private customers, but you have to be referred by someone (we’re in NYC) to get up to our company and work w/ someone… We also deal with many major retailers and sell to them… If you let me know the area you’re in, I can refer you to the better retailers in your area… But wholesalers (the good ones) are the way to go… 2) How much will I need to spend on gold wedding bands? Again, I don’t want to buy "cheap" stuff – I want the rings to be nice. But on the other hand I don’t want to go hogwild…

Again: go for the wholesalers!! Look around… gold bands should NOT be expensive right now because the price of gold is down (and platinum is up!)… but retailers will mark it up quite a bit… I wouldn’t recommend going to a Jewelry Exchange at all… or a Jewelry Mart… Again, if you need help, let me refer you to someone in your area… A lot of retailers don’t know what they’re talking about and will talk you up in price or not give you the info you need! Email me if you have further questions… Hope this helps! I’m actually a singer-songwriter who is getting married next May, and stumbled upon this newsgroup… and it looks like my day job is paying off! All the best, Jessica www.jessicaweiser.com

Response:

Thanks for all the good tips. I appreciate the feedback. Any more ideas are certainly welcome! Standard Disclaimer #143:  I am not a doctor, blah blah blah… I am not giving medical advice, I am only giving testimony based on my experiences. Each person is responsible for what they do with information gathered. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

First of all, throw out that crap about spending two months salary on a ring.  That was set up by jewelers.  As a book I read said, "I’m sure the farmers of America would love to suggest that you spend a week’s salary on a dozen eggs, but that doesn’t mean you should do it." I have a TON of tips for buying a ring, and I’m a guy who returned the first ring I bought because it was lousy.  Fortunately, I got my money back.  The second time was the charm…I went against my conventional wisdom and bought my ring at www.tradeshop.com Definitely the best decision I could have made. The ring I bought for $2500 was appraised at over $4000, and the guy that appraised said I got a really good deal with them.  We’re definitely ordering our wedding bands from them as well. About the ring:  If you can afford a huge rock, go for it.  However,  the cut, clarity and color also make a HUGE difference.  My fiancee’s stone is .68, but I made sure the cut was ideal, the clarity outstanding and the color as close to white as possible. Everywhere my fiancee goes, she gets compliments about her ring. I can’t say this enough: Even though many people are obsessed about how many carats a stone is, what does it matter if the other facets of the ring are horrible?  The appraiser of my first ring said to me, "Rings are like vehicles.  Would you rather drive a Ferrari or a school bus?  One is huge and yellow, the other is smaller but catches everyone’s eye." Please e-mail me for more tips–I can tell you the mistakes I made when looking for a ring, and the right things that I did.

Response:

Purchase and read "How to Buy a Diamond" by Fred Cuellar. It will answer any and all questions about buying a diamond…including your two below. I got my copy from Amazon.com for $11.96. It was the best money we spent. I think when I retire from work (or eventually change careers I am going to go into gemology because of this book and the whole ring buying experience). Melissa to Chris (7-2-00) P.S. I am in no way affiliated with this book, I just love it so much and always suggest it when this thread topic comes up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new to this board and to the whole concept of marriage. I know NOTHING about buying engagement rings. Never planned to get married, but now that I’ve found the right woman I find myself researching wedding-related topics! 1) I’d like to know, what is the AVERAGE a guy is supposed to spend on an engagement ring and on wedding bands? I’ve heard the "2 months’ salary" rule, but I’m sure that was created by the DeBeers diamond industry! You’ve GOT to be kidding… Unless you make so much money that 2 months’ salary is NO problem, you’d have to be nuts to spend that much on a ring! Just my opinion… So, what is the average that a guy who only makes $45k/year (not much, living in L.A.!)  should spend on a wedding ring? My fiancee’ would prefer a diamond solitaire type ring. I want to get something that looks good to the naked eye, and won’t break, but it doesn’t have to be real big or "perfect" under a microscope! 2) How much will I need to spend on gold wedding bands? Again, I don’t want to buy "cheap" stuff – I want the rings to be nice. But on the other hand I don’t want to go hogwild… Since I’m getting married in Mexico, (to a Mexican woman), would I save money buy buying a ring in Mexico, or would I sacrifice quality by doing so? What is best – buying from a small jewelry store or from a big "Jewelry Exchange" or "Jewelry Mart" type super-store? What quality/grade diamond will I be looking for? How do I know it’s a good one? Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks! Any advice/ideas would be appreciated.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new to this board and to the whole concept of marriage. I know NOTHING about buying engagement rings. Never planned to get married, but now that I’ve found the right woman I find myself researching wedding-related topics! 1) I’d like to know, what is the AVERAGE a guy is supposed to spend on an engagement ring and on wedding bands? I’ve heard the "2 months’ salary" rule, but I’m sure that was created by the DeBeers diamond industry! You’ve GOT to be kidding… Unless you make so much money that 2 months’ salary is NO problem, you’d have to be nuts to spend that much on a ring! Just my opinion… So, what is the average that a guy who only makes $45k/year (not much, living in L.A.!)  should spend on a wedding ring? My fiancee’ would prefer a diamond solitaire type ring. I want to get something that looks good to the naked eye, and won’t break, but it doesn’t have to be real big or "perfect" under a microscope! 2) How much will I need to spend on gold wedding bands? Again, I don’t want to buy "cheap" stuff – I want the rings to be nice. But on the other hand I don’t want to go hogwild… Since I’m getting married in Mexico, (to a Mexican woman), would I save money buy buying a ring in Mexico, or would I sacrifice quality by doing so? What is best – buying from a small jewelry store or from a big "Jewelry Exchange" or "Jewelry Mart" type super-store? What quality/grade diamond will I be looking for? How do I know it’s a good one?

I suggest you spend what you can afford, it’s the thought that counts, don’t go into debt for this. Well, I just went through this myself, and I too bought a nice ring .63carats,total of .80, it’s a nice size stone, and 14k gold setting, I also didn’t buy the best, it’s an SI-1, excellent cut to reflect the light. $5000 canadian we just bought are wedding bands and spent a little more for hers as it is actually an anniversary band with diamonds, and mine is white gold with a braided type pattern in 14k yellow gold. $900 canadian. my 2 cents —

Question:

I was watching the news last night and there was a comercial on for one of the local jewlery stores.  It had the song ‘Love Hurts’ playing in the background and it showed a ‘preppy’ kid in a ‘rough’ tattoo shop getting a heart with his girlfriends name in it.  While the ‘burly’, ‘mean’ inkslinger pounded the ink into his delicate skin he was jumping around in the chair – pissing and moaning and making faces.  The announcer then sez, "There are easier ways to tell someone you love them" and it shows these cheap diamond and ‘precious’ gem stone ring collection.  Ahh, it was pretty funny. — G

Question:

Hello, I’m looking for any pictures of druids. preferably a young one. If anyone can help or draw one for me I’d really appreciate it. Thanks Mike

Response:

I’m looking for any pictures of druids. preferably a young one.

You mean those ones from Star Wars? — G

Question:

I recently found out that a stone ring I own, which I thought was an alexandrite, is in fact some other stone that was treated with radiation (don’t know what type) to change its coloration to resemble an alexandrite. Does any know if the stone retains any radiation from this treatment. Thanks. Gerri

Response:

I recently found out that a stone ring I own, which I thought was an alexandrite, is in fact some other stone that was treated with radiation (don’t know what type) to change its coloration to resemble an alexandrite. Does any know if the stone retains any radiation from this treatment.

This came up on sci.skeptic (I think it was) not long ago, but I don’t recall if there was a definitive answer.  If you’re concerned, however, I should think most college physics departments would have a Geiger counter.  And if you asked them nicely, they’d probably be able to pass your ring by it to check.      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "After all, this is still the land of opportunity.  If you know       where to look."  – Jack Douglas

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently found out that a stone ring I own, which I thought was an alexandrite, is in fact some other stone that was treated with radiation (don’t know what type) to change its coloration to resemble an alexandrite. Does any know if the stone retains any radiation from this treatment. This came up on sci.skeptic (I think it was) not long ago, but I don’t recall if there was a definitive answer.  If you’re concerned, however, I should think most college physics departments would have a Geiger counter.  And if you asked them nicely, they’d probably be able to pass your ring by it to check.

You can make a lot of crystals darken with gamma radiation.  Indeed, even ordinary Pyrex beakers go brown if you zap them long enough.  The process apparently generates color centers due to electrons which are displaced by the radiation and can’t get back to their "holes".  So you get charges (positive and negative) stuck in the crystal, and these absorb light.  But there is no residual radiation. You can make the smoky appearance disappear again with shortwave UV, which excites the electrons enough to return them to where they are supposed to go (I once de-smoked a piece of radiated quartz this way, by several weeks of nightly close exposure to a germiacidal UV lamp in a bacterial hood).  Heating will also clear radiated crystals, if you can heat crystals in such a way as not to cause thermal or oxidative damage.                                      Steve Harris, M.D.

Response: