Question:

I always wondered how he got back up the cliff seeing that he had to leave it at the bottom!……

That’s a good point! It’s quite easy to just jump off a cliff to go to work, but once work is over, and you want to kick your feet up and relax, how are you going to get up to the top of that cliff again? I don’t like that SUV. I’m not buying it. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I always wondered how he got back up the cliff seeing that he had to leave it at the bottom!…… That’s a good point! It’s quite easy to just jump off a cliff to go to work, but once work is over, and you want to kick your feet up and relax, how are you going to get up to the top of that cliff again? I don’t like that SUV. I’m not buying it. Ian

Mom and I discussed that commercial. We decided it’s all fake, unless the SUV turns into a helicopter that lands on top of the cliff when he comes home from work. But that would negate the necessity of jumping OFF the cliff in the morning. I’m not buying it, either.  Piece of fake crap. Deirdre —   "There is a good chance that tomorrow will not suck." — Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I always wondered how he got back up the cliff seeing that he had to leave it at the bottom!…… That’s a good point! It’s quite easy to just jump off a cliff to go to work, but once work is over, and you want to kick your feet up and relax, how are you going to get up to the top of that cliff again? I don’t like that SUV. I’m not buying it. Ian

Me neither!!! It must lead one into making faulty decisions! — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m not buying it, either.  Piece of fake crap.

Oh, I just saw the worst commercial of all. It’s actually kinda cute. It’s this cow and bull talking, and the cow is like, "Who do you love?" and the bull is like, reluctantly, "I love cows." And this goes on for a while, then the cow kicks a football really far, and the ad say, "Good cheese comes from happy cows. Happy cows come from California." So … let me get this straight. These are the *actual* cows that the cheese is coming from? These cows live in California? Well sign me up. Because I was under the impression that good cheese came from people who knew how to make good cheese. This would be the good people of Wisconsin. But no, apparently good cheese comes from cute, computer-animated cows, who can kick a football really far. Is there any logic to "Good cheese comes from happy cows?" Well, possibly in a new-age type of way. You know, good energy in, and it transfers to the cheese. We’ll accept this temporarily. Happy cows come from California. Why? Because they can go to the beach when they feel like it? I just don’t understand. Two completely BS statements, strung together at the end of a cartoon, in order to sell people on the idea that California cheese is superior to Wisconsin cheese. They really have to try harder than that. Like, a lot harder. For starters, show us the *actual* factories, not cartoon representations. Then tell us if the cows are stuck in pens and hooked up to grotesque milking machines, or just walking around eating grass and doin’ it doggy-style. At least then I’d be more likely to believe that the cows are happy. Then we’d have to deal with the concept that happy cows make better cheese. Bring in some new-age experts. Explain to me how positive energy gets transferred into the milk, and that the cheese in California can make a crystal glow, or something. I’m cool with that. I’m into energy and everything. Just be up front about it. Just a stupid commercial. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not buying it, either.  Piece of fake crap. Oh, I just saw the worst commercial of all. It’s actually kinda cute. It’s this cow and bull talking, and the cow is like, "Who do you love?" and the bull is like, reluctantly, "I love cows." And this goes on for a while, then the cow kicks a football really far, and the ad say, "Good cheese comes from happy cows. Happy cows come from California." So … let me get this straight. These are the *actual* cows that the cheese is coming from? These cows live in California? Well sign me up. Because I was under the impression that good cheese came from people who knew how to make good cheese. This would be the good people of Wisconsin. But no, apparently good cheese comes from cute, computer-animated cows, who can kick a football really far. Is there any logic to "Good cheese comes from happy cows?" Well, possibly in a new-age type of way. You know, good energy in, and it transfers to the cheese. We’ll accept this temporarily. Happy cows come from California. Why? Because they can go to the beach when they feel like it? I just don’t understand. Two completely BS statements, strung together at the end of a cartoon, in order to sell people on the idea that California cheese is superior to Wisconsin cheese. They really have to try harder than that. Like, a lot harder. For starters, show us the *actual* factories, not cartoon representations. Then tell us if the cows are stuck in pens and hooked up to grotesque milking machines, or just walking around eating grass and doin’ it doggy-style. At least then I’d be more likely to believe that the cows are happy. Then we’d have to deal with the concept that happy cows make better cheese. Bring in some new-age experts. Explain to me how positive energy gets transferred into the milk, and that the cheese in California can make a crystal glow, or something. I’m cool with that. I’m into energy and everything. Just be up front about it. Just a stupid commercial. Ian

Speaking as a (temporary for 22 years so far) Californian, I have no opinion on the comparative virtues of California cheese over Wisconsin cheese, nor on the relative happiness of the dairy cows in each state. But I have to express an overall appreciation of the California Cheese Board’s ad campaign.  There have been some hilarious ads.  The cows and bulls ("Because cows are the Farm Masters") argument with the football is cute, but is perhaps the lamest one. Of the ads currently running, I like the one where the cows ring the farmer’s doorbell and run away giggling.  But that’s just because I want to be one of those cows doing that. As for my cheese consumption habits, I just buy what’s cheapest, and if it came from Tierra del Fuego I wouldn’t care.  Therefore, to me, these California Cheese Board commercials are just entertainment to me, and have no effect on my cheese-buying decisions. I’m having a serious deja vu moment here — did we talk about this before? Deirdre —   "There is a good chance that tomorrow will not suck." — Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m having a serious deja vu moment here — did we talk about this before? I had some serious deja vu a little bit earlier today. Or last night. I don’t remember. It wasn’t that I knew what was going to be said on the TV, but when it was said, I knew that I’d heard it before. Scientists will tell you that that’s some sort of deal with the two halves of our brain, but I think it’s just one more aspect of the reality that we can’t understand, but which is around us all the time. We’ll probably die, and some time later find out about deja vu, and it’ll make sense. But right now, it’s just a mystery. About the cheese ads. Yes, I know they’re cute. It’s just that I need to get some actual facts. I think you’re reacting to them as just entertainment, because you’re too smart to take them seriously, but I think these ad people actually believe there are *some* people who are dumb enough to believe the BS in these ads. There probably are. "Good cheese comes from happy cows. Happy cows come from California." Somewhere there’s a logic professor taping this on his/her VCR, to use in class. It’s doublespeak. But yes, the cows are the farm masters. I do not deny it. Ian —

I have to jump in here and mention the commercial for the SUV.  The kids are in the back saying "I like that one."  The other says "I like that one." They are looking at fish under water in this SUV.  Suddenly the vehicle comes driving out of the ocean.  The first  time I saw that commercial I told my husband that some people will think that SUV will be able to drive under water.  Guess what?  In a week, they put a disclaimer at the beginning stating that the vehicle is not intended for under water driving because this is a COMMERCIAL!!!!!  I just know some nut walked into a dealership wanting to buy the SUV that can be driven under water.  LOL  There are a few out there, Ian!  You are so right.  They are trying to target intelligent people but they forget there are people who are pretty much out of it. Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I just know some nut walked into a dealership wanting to buy the SUV that can be driven under water.  LOL  There are a few out there, Ian!

It’s like Dave Chappelle said. The reason all the phone numbers on TV and movies start with 555 is because some nut is actually going to go home from the movie theater and call that number, and be like, "Is Indiana Jones there?" Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, the DeBeers ad campaign, that’s been going on for decades, thought by most in the ad business as the most successful ad campaign in history. yes … but it’s more than an ad campaign; DeBeers has been manipulating the market for years so supply/demand works in their favor … diamonds aren’t nearly as rare as they have had everyone believing Anyway, I hope the right woman comes along, and by "right", I mean one who appreciates a good burrito. As a symbol of engagement. I would be happy to renew my vows at least once a week in that case, maybe even every day, since there’s a great burrito place a block away from me. I’d be like, "Honey, let’s go renew those vows." She’d say, "Ooh, yes. I think they have a new hot sauce." Women rock. a burrito is forever …. S

God, when my husband or son eats a burrito, it seems like forever.  :) Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hell, why ask for a diamond ring when you can have a new car…<g Because I can’t afford a new car. I need a fiance who likes to get back to the simpler times in life, you know, when people had no money, like before the advent of currency. I need a stone age wife. I can fashion a wheel out of rock and give it to her as her wedding, er, wheel. She can then skin a buffalo and we can feast on its meat, and I can knock her on the head with my club and drag her around. It would be awesome. Ian (crossing Ian’s name off my dance card) Deirdre

Ditto!!! Vicki  :) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Yes, the DeBeers ad campaign, that’s been going on for decades, thought by most in the ad business as the most successful ad campaign in history. yes … but it’s more than an ad campaign; DeBeers has been manipulating the market for years so supply/demand works in their favor … diamonds aren’t nearly as rare as they have had everyone believing

DeBeers have been hoarding diamonds and manipulating the mining of diamonds for years in order to keep the prices high. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not buying it, either.  Piece of fake crap. Oh, I just saw the worst commercial of all. It’s actually kinda cute. It’s this cow and bull talking, and the cow is like, "Who do you love?" and the bull is like, reluctantly, "I love cows." And this goes on for a while, then the cow kicks a football really far, and the ad say, "Good cheese comes from happy cows. Happy cows come from California." So … let me get this straight. These are the *actual* cows that the cheese is coming from? These cows live in California? Well sign me up. Because I was under the impression that good cheese came from people who knew how to make good cheese. This would be the good people of Wisconsin. But no, apparently good cheese comes from cute, computer-animated cows, who can kick a football really far. Is there any logic to "Good cheese comes from happy cows?" Well, possibly in a new-age type of way. You know, good energy in, and it transfers to the cheese. We’ll accept this temporarily. Happy cows come from California. Why? Because they can go to the beach when they feel like it? I just don’t understand. Two completely BS statements, strung together at the end of a cartoon, in order to sell people on the idea that California cheese is superior to Wisconsin cheese. They really have to try harder than that. Like, a lot harder. For starters, show us the *actual* factories, not cartoon representations. Then tell us if the cows are stuck in pens and hooked up to grotesque milking machines, or just walking around eating grass and doin’ it doggy-style. At least then I’d be more likely to believe that the cows are happy. Then we’d have to deal with the concept that happy cows make better cheese. Bring in some new-age experts. Explain to me how positive energy gets transferred into the milk, and that the cheese in California can make a crystal glow, or something. I’m cool with that. I’m into energy and everything. Just be up front about it. Just a stupid commercial. Ian

There is a commercial running up here advertising chocolate milk and in the background there is a cow dancing on its hind legs. Now, that really must be an example of "mad cow." — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

diamonds aren’t nearly as rare as they have had everyone believing

Dang those people. Isn’t that illegal? I mean, I don’t know what law would apply. Like I know these things. But it should be illegal to manipulate the market, or something. I don’t know. No diamond buying today, that’s for sure. I’m sticking with these Dolly Madison mini-crullers. All the fun of crullers, except they’re small, and they don’t taste as good as Dunkin Donuts crullers. But I digress. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Yes, the DeBeers ad campaign, that’s been going on for decades, thought by most in the ad business as the most successful ad campaign in history.

yes … but it’s more than an ad campaign; DeBeers has been manipulating the market for years so supply/demand works in their favor … diamonds aren’t nearly as rare as they have had everyone believing Anyway, I hope the right woman comes along, and by "right", I mean one who appreciates a good burrito. As a symbol of engagement. I would be happy to renew my vows at least once a week in that case, maybe even every day, since there’s a great burrito place a block away from me. I’d be like, "Honey, let’s go renew those vows." She’d say, "Ooh, yes. I think they have a new hot sauce." Women rock.

a burrito is forever …. S — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

(a very cleverly created symbol but no less a symbol)

Yes, the DeBeers ad campaign, that’s been going on for decades, thought by most in the ad business as the most successful ad campaign in history. They literally made the diamond the symbol that it is today. This is what I’ve heard, anyway. Who knows what’s real anymore. Maybe these blue dwarves at my feet, clipping my toenails and painting them in clear polish are really a figment of my imagination. Hey, stop that! I said "clear", not "candy apple red". Freakin’ dwarves. Anyway, I hope the right woman comes along, and by "right", I mean one who appreciates a good burrito. As a symbol of engagement. I would be happy to renew my vows at least once a week in that case, maybe even every day, since there’s a great burrito place a block away from me. I’d be like, "Honey, let’s go renew those vows." She’d say, "Ooh, yes. I think they have a new hot sauce." Women rock. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hell, why ask for a diamond ring when you can have a new car…<g Because I can’t afford a new car. I need a fiance who likes to get back to the simpler times in life, you know, when people had no money, like before the advent of currency. I need a stone age wife. I can fashion a wheel out of rock and give it to her as her wedding, er, wheel. She can then skin a buffalo and we can feast on its meat, and I can knock her on the head with my club and drag her around. It would be awesome. Ian

(crossing Ian’s name off my dance card) Deirdre —   "There is a good chance that tomorrow will not suck." — Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Then there’s one for diamonds that says something like, "Give her a diamond and she’ll love you forever" – yeah, right again!!!

Well then why do women ask for diamond rings? Why not ask for something more practical, like steak burritos? I can afford a steak burrito, and it’s a lot more nutritious than a diamond. "Give her a steak burrito, and she’ll love you forever." Hell yeah! I’ll give her two, just for insurance. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hell, why ask for a diamond ring when you can have a new car…<g smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then there’s one for diamonds that says something like, "Give her a diamond and she’ll love you forever" – yeah, right again!!! Well then why do women ask for diamond rings? Why not ask for something more practical, like steak burritos? I can afford a steak burrito, and it’s a lot more nutritious than a diamond. "Give her a steak burrito, and she’ll love you forever." Hell yeah! I’ll give her two, just for insurance. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hell, why ask for a diamond ring when you can have a new car…<g

Because I can’t afford a new car. I need a fiance who likes to get back to the simpler times in life, you know, when people had no money, like before the advent of currency. I need a stone age wife. I can fashion a wheel out of rock and give it to her as her wedding, er, wheel. She can then skin a buffalo and we can feast on its meat, and I can knock her on the head with my club and drag her around. It would be awesome. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Well then why do women ask for diamond rings? Why not ask for something more practical, like steak burritos? I can afford a steak burrito, and it’s a lot more nutritious than a diamond. "Give her a steak burrito, and she’ll love you forever." Hell yeah! I’ll give her two, just for insurance.

the right woman will ADORE the burritos, Ian … btw, for most women the diamond thing isn’t about money … it’s a powerful symbol (a very cleverly created symbol but no less a symbol) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So — anybody out there have a pet peeve about a commercial? So much so I was thinking of a daily thread called "Commercial of the Day That Pissed Me Off", or, to be more grammatically correct, "Commerical That Pissed Me Off of the Day". Or something. Can’t remember which of the many it was, though. Typical how ads just sort of end up in a blank spot in your mind. Here’s one. The commercial shows a healthy body, and then shows fat building up on it. The lady then says, "Now doctors can remove that fat with liposuction…" and then goes on to mention that liposuction is hella expensive. So now there’s Liposuctionex! (Or something.) All the benefits of liposuction, in an easy-to-take pill. Proven by clinical studies! Then the fine print pop up on the bottom of the screen when she mentions clinical studies. The fine print mentions the, oh, unimportant fact that it was an eight-week study in which the average weight loss was a little less than four pounds. That’s two pounds a month! Not *exactly* the same as liposuction, in which you lose, say, thirty pounds, in an hour. So, in other words, it’s an herbal weight loss pill that doesn’t really cause you to lose more than a little bit of weight. She even mentions that 80% of the weight lost was body fat, which means 20% wasn’t. So what’s one fifth of four pounds? A little under a pound of muscle lost taking this pill during a two-month period. Wow. What a wonder drug. I think caffeine would do the same thing, and it’s a lot cheaper, and comes in nice things like coffee, chocolate, and pop. I also like the truck commercial with the middle-aged white guy in a "dress casual" suit, standing on stage with a mic singing his square butt off about trucks. The underlying message? It’s not a mid-life crisis, you’re still cool. Why, look at *this* guy. He’s just like you. He’s a total suburban square, but he’s up there singing his butt off about trucks, and that means that if you buy our truck, you’ll be cool once again. Or the commercial where the guy goes to work by jumping off a cliff and parachuting into an SUV, where, on the way to work, he has to drive over rough desert terrain. The message? You may never have a real need for that SUV, but don’t worry, you’ll feel like you will. Kind of hazy message.

I always wondered how he got back up the cliff seeing that he had to leave it at the bottom!……One would have to be some kind of nut job to live like that. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Deirdre, The commercial with the "move comfortably" I saw and thought HUH? – yeah right… Then there’s one for diamonds that says something like, "Give her a diamond and she’ll love you forever" – yeah, right again!!! smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s another one: "If they can move comfortably, you can move comfortably" (‘they’ refers to a troup of highly trained dancers            in designer underwear) Um, NOT TRUE. I had intended to make a long list of such idiocies, but I got sick of it after two.  Count yourselves lucky. So — anybody out there have a pet peeve about a commercial? Deirdre (who is feeling quite a lot better tonight, thank you everyone) — "Count no day lost in which you waited your turn, took only your share and sought advantage over no one." -Robert Brault — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m having a serious deja vu moment here — did we talk about this before?

I had some serious deja vu a little bit earlier today. Or last night. I don’t remember. It wasn’t that I knew what was going to be said on the TV, but when it was said, I knew that I’d heard it before. Scientists will tell you that that’s some sort of deal with the two halves of our brain, but I think it’s just one more aspect of the reality that we can’t understand, but which is around us all the time. We’ll probably die, and some time later find out about deja vu, and it’ll make sense. But right now, it’s just a mystery. About the cheese ads. Yes, I know they’re cute. It’s just that I need to get some actual facts. I think you’re reacting to them as just entertainment, because you’re too smart to take them seriously, but I think these ad people actually believe there are *some* people who are dumb enough to believe the BS in these ads. There probably are. "Good cheese comes from happy cows. Happy cows come from California." Somewhere there’s a logic professor taping this on his/her VCR, to use in class. It’s doublespeak. But yes, the cows are the farm masters. I do not deny it. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

So — anybody out there have a pet peeve about a commercial?

So much so I was thinking of a daily thread called "Commercial of the Day That Pissed Me Off", or, to be more grammatically correct, "Commerical That Pissed Me Off of the Day". Or something. Can’t remember which of the many it was, though. Typical how ads just sort of end up in a blank spot in your mind. Here’s one. The commercial shows a healthy body, and then shows fat building up on it. The lady then says, "Now doctors can remove that fat with liposuction…" and then goes on to mention that liposuction is hella expensive. So now there’s Liposuctionex! (Or something.) All the benefits of liposuction, in an easy-to-take pill. Proven by clinical studies! Then the fine print pop up on the bottom of the screen when she mentions clinical studies. The fine print mentions the, oh, unimportant fact that it was an eight-week study in which the average weight loss was a little less than four pounds. That’s two pounds a month! Not *exactly* the same as liposuction, in which you lose, say, thirty pounds, in an hour. So, in other words, it’s an herbal weight loss pill that doesn’t really cause you to lose more than a little bit of weight. She even mentions that 80% of the weight lost was body fat, which means 20% wasn’t. So what’s one fifth of four pounds? A little under a pound of muscle lost taking this pill during a two-month period. Wow. What a wonder drug. I think caffeine would do the same thing, and it’s a lot cheaper, and comes in nice things like coffee, chocolate, and pop. I also like the truck commercial with the middle-aged white guy in a "dress casual" suit, standing on stage with a mic singing his square butt off about trucks. The underlying message? It’s not a mid-life crisis, you’re still cool. Why, look at *this* guy. He’s just like you. He’s a total suburban square, but he’s up there singing his butt off about trucks, and that means that if you buy our truck, you’ll be cool once again. Or the commercial where the guy goes to work by jumping off a cliff and parachuting into an SUV, where, on the way to work, he has to drive over rough desert terrain. The message? You may never have a real need for that SUV, but don’t worry, you’ll feel like you will. Kind of hazy message. My favorite car commercial is where this guy goes into Chinatown, into a door in a back alley, and down a sleek corridor lined with Asian babes, into the secret of secret rooms, where a Mitsubishi is circling on a platform, and some Asian dude comes halfway onto camera, and says something really profound, like, "Adjustable leather bucket seats", or something, and the guy gets in and drives off. The commercials ends with them saying, "… if you know where to go." Like you really have to know where to go to get a freakin’ Mitsubishi. They’re in the Yellow Pages, for freak’s sake. It’s like a spell, these commercials. I like what D Boone of the Minutemen had to say about this: "Let the products sell themselves / Fuck advertising, commercial psychology / Psychological methods to sell should be destroyed." Yes, he wrote a song about this. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedberg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I heard this on a TV commercial for flooring material: "The right floor makes everybody happy." Think about that for a minute. ::tick tick tick :: Done? It’s a LIE. Sorry, but shouting seems appropriate. Here’s another one: "If they can move comfortably, you can move comfortably" (‘they’ refers to a troup of highly trained dancers           in designer underwear) Um, NOT TRUE. I had intended to make a long list of such idiocies, but I got sick of it after two.  Count yourselves lucky. So — anybody out there have a pet peeve about a commercial? Deirdre (who is feeling quite a lot better tonight, thank you everyone)

I have a pet peeve that applies to nearly all commercials and that is that they seem to cater solely to those amongst us with a mental age of 3. The worst ones are the hard sell commercials by that guy with a raspy voice….I wouldn’t buy water from that guy if I was dying of thirst. — Ron P If it doesn’t hurt today, it probably will tomorrow. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I heard this on a TV commercial for flooring material: "The right floor makes everybody happy." Think about that for a minute. ::tick tick tick :: Done? It’s a LIE. Sorry, but shouting seems appropriate. Here’s another one: "If they can move comfortably, you can move comfortably"         (‘they’ refers to a troup of highly trained dancers            in designer underwear) Um, NOT TRUE. I had intended to make a long list of such idiocies, but I got sick of it after two.  Count yourselves lucky. So — anybody out there have a pet peeve about a commercial? Deirdre (who is feeling quite a lot better tonight, thank you everyone) — "Count no day lost in which you waited your turn, took only your share and sought advantage over no one." -Robert Brault — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

I’m hoping he’s OK. Last I knew, he lived across the lake from New Orleans… -DC

Response:

I’m hoping he’s OK. Last I knew, he lived across the lake from New Orleans… -DC

Well now, him…  I’d be more concerned with. He might be without electricity though, even if he’s not in the city. So not seeing any recent posts from him shouldn’t be considered unusual. Has anyone tried to contact him? Pete — I saved your mechanical man from certain damnation. For his frail, electronic eyes had gazed upon the impenetrable! He was an unwilling beholder to the impossible!  –Dr. Orpheus

Response:

I’m hoping he’s OK. Last I knew, he lived across the lake from New Orleans… -DC Well now, him…  I’d be more concerned with.

Aye. He might be without electricity though, even if he’s not in the city. So not seeing any recent posts from him shouldn’t be considered unusual. Has anyone tried to contact him?

He’s in my customer database – I’ll try to call him when I get to the shop. LV

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m hoping he’s OK. Last I knew, he lived across the lake from New Orleans… -DC Well now, him…  I’d be more concerned with. Aye. He might be without electricity though, even if he’s not in the city.

Undoubtedly. So not seeing any recent posts from him shouldn’t be considered unusual.

He hasn’t post regularly in quite a while anyway, but… Has anyone tried to contact him? He’s in my customer database – I’ll try to call him when I get to the shop. LV

Thx, LV. Let us know what you find out. I had his landline a few years back, but it was lost in a reformat. -DC

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I’m Fine!  Thanks for caring! Actually, my residence was in Metairie at the time of the storm, although I was in Dallas for the storm.  Currently staying at a hotel in Houma (my company’s office in this area is down here) on my company’s dime until I am able to securely reside in my apartment.  My company (Martin Decker/Totco of Varco) actually paid me for the two weeks I was unable to work because of the whole situation, including the week I was in Dallas because I had no place to live temporarily, and they were unable to secure a hotel room closer to work. same, although cell phone contact was spotty at best for the past few weeks … any one heard from Ed?  I’m thinking that the flooding may have actually cleaned up his shop a little … –Tony

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m Fine!  Thanks for caring! Actually, my residence was in Metairie at the time of the storm, although I was in Dallas for the storm.  Currently staying at a hotel in Houma (my company’s office in this area is down here) on my company’s dime until I am able to securely reside in my apartment.  My company (Martin Decker/Totco of Varco) actually paid me for the two weeks I was unable to work because of the whole situation, including the week I was in Dallas because I had no place to live temporarily, and they were unable to secure a hotel room closer to work. same, although cell phone contact was spotty at best for the past few weeks … any one heard from Ed?  I’m thinking that the flooding may have actually cleaned up his shop a little … –Tony

Pee Wee Morgan posted that algore gave E.D. a plane ride to Chattanooga, or somewhere. Claude

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I’m hoping he’s OK. Last I knew, he lived across the lake from New Orleans… -DC Well now, him…  I’d be more concerned with. Aye.                 <snip

Hear those chains rattling yet, Willie?   –E

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I’m Fine!  Thanks for caring! Actually, my residence was in Metairie at the time of the storm, although I was in Dallas for the storm.  Currently staying at a hotel in Houma (my company’s office in this area is down here) on my company’s dime until I am able to securely reside in my apartment.  My company (Martin Decker/Totco of Varco) actually paid me for the two weeks I was unable to work because of the whole situation, including the week I was in Dallas because I had no place to live temporarily, and they were unable to secure a hotel room closer to work. same, although cell phone contact was spotty at best for the past few weeks …

Whew! Good to hear you’re OK. Judging by the map I just pulled up, I hope you live on the second floor, and didn’t lose *all* your stuff. The Mrs. went through a hurricane when she was living at Folley Beach, SC. She lost almost everything to water damage, as half the roof was torn off. any one heard from Ed?

Rumor has it that one of his political heroes chartered a plane and he was among the passengers…   I’m thinking that the flooding may have actually cleaned up his shop a little … –Tony

That bad, eh? At least he’ll *have* to clean up now. Glad you made it, Tony. -DC

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m Fine!  Thanks for caring! Actually, my residence was in Metairie at the time of the storm, although I was in Dallas for the storm.  Currently staying at a hotel in Houma (my company’s office in this area is down here) on my company’s dime until I am able to securely reside in my apartment.  My company (Martin Decker/Totco of Varco) actually paid me for the two weeks I was unable to work because of the whole situation, including the week I was in Dallas because I had no place to live temporarily, and they were unable to secure a hotel room closer to work. same, although cell phone contact was spotty at best for the past few weeks … any one heard from Ed?  I’m thinking that the flooding may have actually cleaned up his shop a little … –Tony

Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

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Wow.  That’s a huge relief. Welcome back, glad you’re OK.

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Whew! Good to hear you’re OK. Judging by the map I just pulled up, I hope you live on the second floor

I have a 2 floor apartment, and no water got into the apartment from the flooding.  My upstairs sliding glass door blew in, and the roof leaked in a couple of spots, but nothing major or irreplacable got damaged.  HOWEVER … , and didn’t lose *all* your stuff.

I lost a lot of my stuff.  fuckers took my washer, dryer, a shitload of tools (almost all of them), my entire entertainment system downstairs including DVD’s and CD’s, security system (power was off), coffee maker, Avon gift basket to my wife, a box of splenda, a jewelry box of my wife’s mothers costume jewelry (but they didn’t get my wife’s other jewelry box with an expensive watch, and diamond rings … still trying to figure that one out), a box of Splenda, my motorcycle ramp, a 12 pack of paper towels, some dirty magazines, and some blank DVDR’s and CDR’s The Mrs. went through a hurricane when she was living at Folley Beach, SC. She lost almost everything to water damage, as half the roof was torn off.

I guess I should feel lucky … but somehow I don’t any one heard from Ed? Rumor has it that one of his political heroes chartered a plane and he was among the passengers…

  I guess he finally got to meet his hero, Michael Moore-on? I’m thinking that the flooding may have actually cleaned up his shop a little … –Tony That bad, eh? At least he’ll *have* to clean up now.

He’s not in the running for the Good Housekeeping award … but then again, neither am I. Glad you made it, Tony.

Me, too … because that means I can make whoever stole my stuff pay for what they did in one way or another. -DC

SHOOT THE LOOTERS!!!!!!! –T

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Thanks, man!  Good to be back.  I was kinda pissed when AOhelL stopped carrying the newsgroups, and never really wanted to use another newseader, but I guess it’s time.  Besides, that … right around that time frame, this group was really having some major problems with idiots.  It looks like things really haven’t changed much with a lot of them still being here.  I checked in from time to time, but it was all pretty much the same, and the new job is/was definitely keeping me busy.  Not to mention, I get sent out to oil rigs in the Gulf pretty frequently, and for days at a time. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com

I still gotta get you to refret my guitar and take my modded Marshall back to stock (or close).  Priorities, though … gotta replace all the stolen stuff first … –T

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Wow.  That’s a huge relief. Welcome back, glad you’re OK

Thankyou, thankyou …

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Whew! Good to hear you’re OK. Judging by the map I just pulled up, I hope you live on the second floor I have a 2 floor apartment, and no water got into the apartment from the flooding.  My upstairs sliding glass door blew in, and the roof leaked in a couple of spots, but nothing major or irreplacable got damaged.  HOWEVER … , and didn’t lose *all* your stuff. I lost a lot of my stuff.  fuckers took my washer, dryer, a shitload of tools (almost all of them), my entire entertainment system downstairs including DVD’s and CD’s, security system (power was off), coffee maker, Avon gift basket to my wife, a box of splenda,

Noooooooo!  Not the Splenda! a jewelry box of my wife’s mothers costume jewelry (but they didn’t get my wife’s other jewelry box with an expensive watch, and diamond rings … still trying to figure that one out), a box of Splenda,

Those BASTARDS! They took TWO boxes of Splenda? Have they no shame?!! (Maybe that explains why they left the diamonds–they were clearly after your Splenda!) my motorcycle ramp, a 12 pack of paper towels, some dirty magazines, <snip

Well, at least they’re not *totally* stupid.  ;) Glad you made it, Tony. Me, too … because that means I can make whoever stole my stuff

Just look for a shifty-eyed asshole with two boxes of Splenda under his arm! Regards,   –E P.S. Sorry to make light of your situation. I know it sucks.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whew! Good to hear you’re OK. Judging by the map I just pulled up, I hope you live on the second floor I have a 2 floor apartment, and no water got into the apartment from the flooding.  My upstairs sliding glass door blew in, and the roof leaked in a couple of spots, but nothing major or irreplacable got damaged.  HOWEVER … , and didn’t lose *all* your stuff. I lost a lot of my stuff.  fuckers took my washer, dryer, a shitload of tools (almost all of them), my entire entertainment system downstairs including DVD’s and CD’s, security system (power was off), coffee maker, Avon gift basket to my wife, a box of splenda, Noooooooo!  Not the Splenda! a jewelry box of my wife’s mothers costume jewelry (but they didn’t get my wife’s other jewelry box with an expensive watch, and diamond rings … still trying to figure that one out), a box of Splenda, Those BASTARDS! They took TWO boxes of Splenda? Have they no shame?!!

Actually, only one … misprint on my part. (Maybe that explains why they left the diamonds–they were clearly after your Splenda!)

I’m trying to figure that one out, too … they wheeled out my Mesa 4 X12 from upstairs closet, but didn’t take it down the stairs … I figure either lazy, weak, or both. my motorcycle ramp, a 12 pack of paper towels, some dirty magazines, <snip Well, at least they’re not *totally* stupid.  ;)

My Voluptuous collection is almost completely gone!!!!! Glad you made it, Tony. Me, too … because that means I can make whoever stole my stuff Just look for a shifty-eyed asshole with two boxes of Splenda under his arm! Regards,  –E P.S. Sorry to make light of your situation. I know it sucks.

No, that’s cool … you did it in a lighthearted way, and it’s totally acceptable.  I needed a good laugh after all this, anyway.  Hasn’t been a lot down here to break the seriousness of the situation.  Not to mention, I’m still looking for a good friend of mine who I haven’t heard from since 2 days before the storm, yet.  He didn’t have a phone, only a pager, and although the cell phone system has gotten better, I still can’t get through to his pager, and he hasn’t called me either. He also lived in Gentilly, an area that got messed up due to the storm, and I couldn’t reach him before the storm hit, so I’m hoping that means he got out.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Whew! Good to hear you’re OK. Judging by the map I just pulled up, I hope you live on the second floor I have a 2 floor apartment, and no water got into the apartment from the flooding.  My upstairs sliding glass door blew in, and the roof leaked in a couple of spots, but nothing major or irreplacable got damaged.  HOWEVER … , and didn’t lose *all* your stuff. I lost a lot of my stuff.  fuckers took my washer, dryer, a shitload of tools (almost all of them), my entire entertainment system downstairs including DVD’s and CD’s, security system (power was off), coffee maker, Avon gift basket to my wife, a box of splenda, a jewelry box of my wife’s mothers costume jewelry (but they didn’t get my wife’s other jewelry box with an expensive watch, and diamond rings … still trying to figure that one out), a box of Splenda, my motorcycle ramp, a 12 pack of paper towels, some dirty magazines, and some blank DVDR’s and CDR’s

It’s one thing to lose stuff to water damage, but a whole ‘nother ball of wax to have your stuff lifted. That sucks, man! I guess they couldn’t take the fuck books without the paper towels, huh? Assholes!!! I guess I should feel lucky … but somehow I don’t

I don’t blame you. Hard to feel lucky when you’re pissed off. Rumor has it that one of his political heroes chartered a plane and he was among the passengers…  I guess he finally got to meet his hero, Michael Moore-on?

I hear Al Gore chartered the plane, but I seriously doubt he was on it. I’m thinking that the flooding may have actually cleaned up his shop a little … –Tony That bad, eh? At least he’ll *have* to clean up now. He’s not in the running for the Good Housekeeping award … but then again, neither am I.

Same here. ;O) Glad you made it, Tony. Me, too … because that means I can make whoever stole my stuff pay for what they did in one way or another.

I hope you get the chance… SHOOT THE LOOTERS!!!!!!!

That’d be wasting good bullets. There’s other ways much more appropriate…  Mwah, HA HA!  Good luck, and have fun! –T

Wish you the best, Tony. -DC

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Tony, tied to the tracks, said: … I lost a lot of my stuff.  fuckers took my washer, dryer, a shitload of tools (almost all of them), my entire entertainment system downstairs including DVD’s and CD’s, security system (power was off), coffee maker, Avon gift basket to my wife, a box of splenda, a jewelry box of my wife’s mothers costume jewelry (but they didn’t get my wife’s other jewelry box with an expensive watch, and diamond rings … still trying to figure that one out), a box of Splenda, my motorcycle ramp, a 12 pack of paper towels, some dirty magazines, and some blank DVDR’s and CDR’s

You mean someone else was there besides me? You can have the bike back, not my style. But I already used the Splenda.

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Question:

My husband’s sleep apnea disappeared when he lost weight.  The CPAP collects dust in the closet now.

Now that’s way kewl!!  I can only hope it does similar for me.  I have tried for over 10 months to wear the stupid thing and usually just keep it on part of the night.  I think I take it off when my son gets in our bed sometime during the night.  I have to admit it has made a major difference in my energy level though.  I’ll have to discuss this with my pulminologist.  Thanks for the info. Donna K. 398.8/279.6/275 (next short term goal) New WOE began Jan 2003 LC since May 2003 CR and LC since Jan 2005

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My husband’s sleep apnea disappeared when he lost weight.  The CPAP collects dust in the closet now.

Is it for sale?

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 I’ve got a family history of diabetes and a personal history of sleep apnea (which I didn’t think got better with wt loss, glad to know it might).

Hi Donna, My husband’s sleep apnea disappeared when he lost weight.  The CPAP collects dust in the closet now. — Walking on . . . Laurie in Maine 207/115   Start: 2/02  Maintained since 2/03 —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

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Speaking of IRL, Beverly, my Dayton trip has just been finalized.  I will be traveling out Sunday, so could get together for dinner if you’re available.  (Or possibly sometime in the afternoon — don’t know yet about flight times.)  Let me know if you are free.  I’ll be staying at the same place. Chris

This is great.  I’ll keep the date open and we can finalize plans when you get your flight times.   Beverly

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Speaking of IRL, Beverly, my Dayton trip has just been finalized.  I will be traveling out Sunday, so could get together for dinner if you’re available.  (Or possibly sometime in the afternoon — don’t know yet about flight times.)  Let me know if you are free.  I’ll be staying at the same place. Chris

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Oily skin may be more elastic but it’s not a result of a high fat diet, more a matter of genetics. This is my impression.  My skin has been pretty much the same (rather on the dry side) all my life — didn’t change when dieting, though I eat much less fat than I used to.  But even with dry skin, my skin recovery has been pretty good, I think.

I’ve seen Chris IRL and have to say her skin looks great.  You certainly wouldn’t know she had ever been at a heavier weight. Beverly

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Oily skin may be more elastic but it’s not a result of a high fat diet, more a matter of genetics.

This is my impression.  My skin has been pretty much the same (rather on the dry side) all my life — didn’t change when dieting, though I eat much less fat than I used to.  But even with dry skin, my skin recovery has been pretty good, I think. Moisture (water) also matters, us ladies use moisturizing creams even on oily skins.

I do moisturize . Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – that. My breasts look like deflated footballs; I have to clean and jerk them into a bra every morning. I may laugh for days. http://photos.yahoo.com/kasey0613 (click on Kasey ASD album) Fee, fee, fi, fi, fo-fo, fum Look at Kasey now, here she comes Wearin’ her wig hat and shades to match She’s got high-heel shoes and an alligator hat Wearin’ her pearls and her diamond rings She’s got bracelets on her fingers, now, and everything She’s the devil with the blue dress, blue dress, blue dress, Devil with the blue dress on Devil with the blue dress, blue dress, blue dress, Devil with the blue dress on Wearin’ her perfume, Chanel No. 5 Got to be the finest girl alive She walks real cool, catches everybody’s eye She’s got such good lovin’ that they can’t say goodbye Not too skinny, she’s not too fat She’s a real humdinger and I like it like that She’s the devil with the blue dress, blue dress, blue dress, Devil with the blue dress on Devil with the blue dress, blue dress, blue dress, Devil with the blue dress on Good Golly Ms. Kasey!

Cool!  Thanks for this, Matthew . Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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Having once been 320 pounds, I’m very concerned about skin elasticity.  So far, after losing 142 pounds from peak, my skin appears to be returning to normal with some extra wrinkles.  Wrinkles near the elbow, and such, are common at my age of 49 anyway.  I still have some poundage to lose to see what the result will be. My best guess as to why my skin appears to be recovering, is that I get lots of saturated fat and cholesterol.  The body needs the basic building materials to re-engineer itself.  I suspect that horrible skin results may be a symptom of low fat diets.

Skin type is something you’re pretty much born with. Although. I do cut down on fat to lose weight because of the high calorie content of fat I don’t have dry skin. I’ve heard people complain about dry skin with a LF diet, I’ve just checked & my nose still shines brightly  I always had oily skin & suffered from acne as a teenager. One of my best friends has very dry skin and she’s had deep wrinkles around her eyes since I met her aged 23, now she looks older than my mum! The highest amount of weight I ever lost was nearly 60lbs in just over 6 months so it doesn’t compare with the amounts other people have lost, however, I never had lose skin, only softer adipose tissue under it. Oily skin may be more elastic but it’s not a result of a high fat diet, more a matter of genetics. Moisture (water) also matters, us ladies use moisturizing creams even on oily skins. Skin moisture is affected by air humidity, the water in your region, exposure to the sun, etc. In short, there are too many factors skin tone. Sounds like a subject for further investigation.

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I wouldn’t. I started this WOL to improve my health and quality of life. I figured my middle-aged skin would not "go back to normal" after 20+ years of morbid obesity.  Being able to walk without fatigue and pain, having energy to live an active life, and controlling my diabetes and sleep apnea are well worth the unpleasant appearance, which can only be seen when I’m nekkid. I look quite presentable clothed: http://photos.yahoo.com/kasey0613 (click on Kasey ASD album)

Hey, Kasey, I don’t remember the blue suit pics – when did you sneak them in?  You look just terrific! janice

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I’ve lost more than 150 pounds, and if you are referring to the Discovery Channel program I think you are, then yes, I look like that. My breasts look like deflated footballs; I have to clean and jerk them into a bra every morning. There are rolls of excess skin on my abdomen and thighs; my upper arms make a flapping noise during aerobics. I look like a shar-pei, but less cute.

Hi, Kasey,     I’m with you girl.  Even before I started losing weight I had the wing flaps and dunlap dz.  Heck, I had them as a teenager.  I knew when I started my WOE the skin would just get saggier and that was to be expected.  I’ve lost 120 lbs, and still have about 100 more to lose.  I do Shaolin Martial Arts with my husband and try not to freak when my abd skin makes a loud pop.  I’m going to invest in some support clothing to help hold that stuff down…  :).  I feel sooooOOo much better now, and can do sooOoOo much more than before.  I, too, think it is a small price to pay to have my life back.  I have a 4.5 yo son that I want to go hiking with this summer, that’s more important to me. I started this WOL to improve my health and quality of life. I figured my middle-aged skin would not "go back to normal" after 20+ years of morbid obesity.  Being able to walk without fatigue and pain, having energy to live an active life, and controlling my diabetes and sleep apnea are well worth the unpleasant appearance, which can only be seen when I’m nekkid.

Me, too.  I’ve been super heavy since High School.  I’m more active now that I have been in 15+ yrs.  I’ve got a family history of diabetes and a personal history of sleep apnea (which I didn’t think got better with wt loss, glad to know it might).  My husband is the only one that sees me nekkid and he’s euphoric with my progress.  My DS asked to go for a walk a couple of days ago….boy, did that make me beam  :). I look quite presentable clothed:

You look outstanding in that blue suit. I have an consult scheduled with a plastic surgeon in June, so I hope to have some of the redundant skin removed. But even if I can’t, I value my health far more than my physical appearance.

I’d love to know the outcome, Kasey.  I’m going to have a consultation when I get around 190 – 200.  I’m not sure insurance will help with it, even though there are some "hygeine" issues that I’m battling with, even now.  Thanks for posting, it gave me courage to put my 2 cents out there. Donna K. 398.8/279.6/275 (next short term goal) NWOE began Jan 2003 LC began May 2003 CR and LC began Jan 2005

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that. My breasts look like deflated footballs; I have to clean and jerk them into a bra every morning.

I may laugh for days. http://photos.yahoo.com/kasey0613 (click on Kasey ASD album)

Fee, fee, fi, fi, fo-fo, fum Look at Kasey now, here she comes Wearin’ her wig hat and shades to match She’s got high-heel shoes and an alligator hat Wearin’ her pearls and her diamond rings She’s got bracelets on her fingers, now, and everything She’s the devil with the blue dress, blue dress, blue dress, Devil with the blue dress on Devil with the blue dress, blue dress, blue dress, Devil with the blue dress on Wearin’ her perfume, Chanel No. 5 Got to be the finest girl alive She walks real cool, catches everybody’s eye She’s got such good lovin’ that they can’t say goodbye Not too skinny, she’s not too fat She’s a real humdinger and I like it like that She’s the devil with the blue dress, blue dress, blue dress, Devil with the blue dress on Devil with the blue dress, blue dress, blue dress, Devil with the blue dress on Good Golly Ms. Kasey!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wouldn’t. I started this WOL to improve my health and quality of life. I figured my middle-aged skin would not "go back to normal" after 20+ years of morbid obesity.  Being able to walk without fatigue and pain, having energy to live an active life, and controlling my diabetes and sleep apnea are well worth the unpleasant appearance, which can only be seen when I’m nekkid. I look quite presentable clothed: http://photos.yahoo.com/kasey0613 (click on Kasey ASD album) You’ve added some pics since the last time I viewed them.  You look fabulous in the blue dress! Beverly

Indeed you do, Kasey!  I couldn’t get there earlier — link timed out — but after these comments I had to try again and check it out . Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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I wouldn’t. I started this WOL to improve my health and quality of life. I figured my middle-aged skin would not "go back to normal" after 20+ years of morbid obesity.  Being able to walk without fatigue and pain, having energy to live an active life, and controlling my diabetes and sleep apnea are well worth the unpleasant appearance, which can only be seen when I’m nekkid. I look quite presentable clothed: http://photos.yahoo.com/kasey0613 (click on Kasey ASD album)

You’ve added some pics since the last time I viewed them.  You look fabulous in the blue dress! Beverly

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Having once been 320 pounds, I’m very concerned about skin elasticity.  So far, after losing 142 pounds from peak, my skin appears to be returning to normal with some extra wrinkles.  Wrinkles near the elbow, and such, are common at my age of 49 anyway.  I still have some poundage to lose to see what the result will be. My best guess as to why my skin appears to be recovering, is that I get lots of saturated fat and cholesterol.  The body needs the basic building materials to re-engineer itself.  I suspect that horrible skin results may be a symptom of low fat diets.

I dunno.  I think we all tend to credit our lifestyle choices for what may be mainly good fortune.  My skin has also recovered well, and I eat little saturated fat.  (I do try to eat a reasonable amount of good fats.)  I am inclined to credit weight training for the skin recovery.  But really, is it your fat, or my weight training, or just gradual weight loss and luck in the genetic draw? Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

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Holy cow, Kasey, you look AMAZING in that blue suit. Way to go, girl – what an accomplishment! You must be thrilled with the new you! Mary G.

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Anyone else that has lost a lot of weight get so

much skin it looked like this?  If my boobs end up looking like that …<< I’ve lost more than 150 pounds, and if you are referring to the Discovery Channel program I think you are, then yes, I look like that. My breasts look like deflated footballs; I have to clean and jerk them into a bra every morning. There are rolls of excess skin on my abdomen and thighs; my upper arms make a flapping noise during aerobics. I look like a shar-pei, but less cute. I

would rather be fat!<< I wouldn’t. I started this WOL to improve my health and quality of life. I figured my middle-aged skin would not "go back to normal" after 20+ years of morbid obesity.  Being able to walk without fatigue and pain, having energy to live an active life, and controlling my diabetes and sleep apnea are well worth the unpleasant appearance, which can only be seen when I’m nekkid. I look quite presentable clothed: http://photos.yahoo.com/kasey0613 (click on Kasey ASD album) I have an consult scheduled with a plastic surgeon in June, so I hope to have some of the redundant skin removed. But even if I can’t, I value my health far more than my physical appearance. As always, YMMV. Kasey 365/213/190

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having once been 320 pounds, I’m very concerned about skin elasticity.  So far, after losing 142 pounds from peak, my skin appears to be returning to normal with some extra wrinkles.  Wrinkles near the elbow, and such, are common at my age of 49 anyway.  I still have some poundage to lose to see what the result will be. My best guess as to why my skin appears to be recovering, is that I get lots of saturated fat and cholesterol.  The body needs the basic building materials to re-engineer itself.  I suspect that horrible skin results may be a symptom of low fat diets. Cubit 311/178/165

There are many reasons for the loss of elasticity in the skin. Menopause is probably the biggest for women.  Healthy fats are a great source for help in the prevention of sagging skin.  Here’s just one of many articles that can be found with a search on "skin elasticity fat".  I couldn’t find any that specfically suggested saturated fat; most mentioned fat from fish, avacado, etc.  I was pleasantly surprised to find many of the foods I normally eat.  At age 62 I’m still blessed very little sagging skin. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_200402/ai_n12885932 Beverly

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Having once been 320 pounds, I’m very concerned about skin elasticity.  So far, after losing 142 pounds from peak, my skin appears to be returning to normal with some extra wrinkles.  Wrinkles near the elbow, and such, are common at my age of 49 anyway.  I still have some poundage to lose to see what the result will be. My best guess as to why my skin appears to be recovering, is that I get lots of saturated fat and cholesterol.  The body needs the basic building materials to re-engineer itself.  I suspect that horrible skin results may be a symptom of low fat diets. Cubit 311/178/165

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, I saw a post on: soc.support.fat-acceptance It is titled: Michael Schiavo DEAD…just desserts! post to a woman who had gastric bypass and lost over 200lbs.  Now, they show after photos, and I am telling you, a lot of skin!  I have a lot of weight to lose.  I have done pretty well so far, as of this morning, I have lost 44 lbs. Anyway…  After looking at this last night, I had a hard time sleeping.  I am wondering if you think this woman just had something wrong with the elastic in her skin that would not allow any of her skin to go back to normal?  Or is this just what happens to people that have to lose such a large amount of weight? I may not have quite as much weight to lose as she did, but it is comparable and I am absolutely shocked and scared that this could be the case for me too!  Anyone else that has lost a lot of weight get so much skin it looked like this?  If my boobs end up looking like that, I would rather be fat! Please check that out and tell me what you think.  And if I have offended anyone, I am sorry.  I am just really shocked. I would also like to know if you have any ideas of what a person can do while they are losing weight to prevent some of that saggy skin?  I know that I will have some and I can deal with that, but man, I don’t want anything like she has.  Please tell me of ways to help the skin go back to normal. Thanks in advance Sherry

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gastric bypass is an enforced crash diet, because the stomach is so small that the person can only eat very little. That’s what I thought too, till I read through part of this girl’s WLS journal just out of curiosity. There she says things like: " but don’t understand how in the world I was able to eat so much only 8 days out from surgery…" She cheated on her liquid diet a few times WITHIN THE FIRST FEW DAYS after surgery. From what she says, even after surgery it wasn’t easy to stick to plan. It would appear that many people think that, just by having the bypass, they’ll automatically eat very little without any effort or willpower on their part. According to this girl’s story, that’s not the case. I am confused, was she losing weight slowly (which would suggest that she really ate more food than I thought), or was she losing weight quickly, while feeling as though she was eating a lot?

Lost weight quickly over the first couple of weeks despite little cheats but then hit a plateau after 4 wks or so, then lost slowly for a while, 1-2 lbs/wk, which is OK for people of moderate weight losing without surgery but she was still over 300lbs. She definitely had trouble adjusting to eating less even after surgery, although there were also times when her stomach didn’t let her eat much. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Was there something wrong with her skin?  Did she not exercise? Exercise wouldn’t have done anything to the lose skin, you may develop muscle mass with exercise but hardly enough to fill that empty ’sack’. Absolutely. I do not think that there is anything you can do, besides losing slowly and making sure that you eat a good diet. It is supposedly better in younger people. I have not seen any supplements that would be proven to work. Which is not to say that some magic solution does not exists, only that I have not seen it. I had a lot less to lose, I lost only 50 lbs, and I personally do not have saggy skin. The mechanism of skin elasticity and loss thereof, is that as people age, sugar bonds with collagen molecules in skin, causing them to cross-link and become less elastic. So, if a person is old and had high blood sugar, they would be more likely to have saggy skin. The girl in the pictures was 33 yrs old when she had the bypass. Looks like she is one unlucky 33 year old…

It was an eye-opener, I never thought about this ‘dark’ side of losing weight. Seeing that is certainly a good motivation for anyone to stop gaining weight, knowing that even if you manage to lose it you may not look as good as you’d have expected, unless you have plastic surgery (and big scars left after it) ;-(

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But, is she the norm for the amount of weight she had to lose?  I have a lot to lose.  I have lost about 45 and have over 125 to go.  I am really fat.  So, it is close enough to what she lost.  But, I am not doing it with gastric bypass and she did.  Would that cause the weight loss SO fast that the result is so much skin.  Was there something wrong with her skin?  Did she not exercise?  What can I do to NOT look like that!

Why don’t you lose weight and worry about your appearance later?  You’re all in a tizzy over something that may not even apply to you.  If this woman was your *sister* it still might not happen to you! I lost nearly 100 pounds and I’m only 5 feet tall.  I don’t think the amount of loose skin I have is *that* much more than any average 49 yo woman.  I’d rather be healthy and fit than fret over my skin. One thing for sure, I would never have GB surgery.  My best advice would be to exercise while losing weight slowly. Btw – I really only walked while I did. — Walking on . . . Laurie in Maine 207/115   Start: 2/02  Maintained since 2/03 —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

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But, is she the norm for the amount of weight she had to lose?  I have a lot to lose.  I have lost about 45 and have over 125 to go.  I am really fat.  So, it is close enough to what she lost.  But, I am not doing it with gastric bypass and she did. So, you are going relatively slowly, is that correct? Would that cause the weight loss SO fast that the result is so much skin. Gastric bypass is an enforced crash diet, because the stomach is so small that the person can only eat very little.

That’s what I thought too, till I read through part of this girl’s WLS journal just out of curiosity. There she says things like: " but don’t understand how in the world I was able to eat so much only 8 days out from surgery…" She cheated on her liquid diet a few times WITHIN THE FIRST FEW DAYS after surgery. From what she says, even after surgery it wasn’t easy to stick to plan. It would appear that many people think that, just by having the bypass, they’ll automatically eat very little without any effort or willpower on their part. According to this girl’s story, that’s not the case. Was there something wrong with her skin?  Did she not exercise?

Exercise wouldn’t have done anything to the lose skin, you may develop muscle mass with exercise but hardly enough to fill that empty ’sack’. What can I do to NOT look like that!

Plastic surgery! She’s had two rounds of it so far… But then she weighed 360+ to start with… I do not think that there is anything you can do, besides losing slowly and making sure that you eat a good diet. It is supposedly better in younger people. I have not seen any supplements that would be proven to work. Which is not to say that some magic solution does not exists, only that I have not seen it. I had a lot less to lose, I lost only 50 lbs, and I personally do not have saggy skin. The mechanism of skin elasticity and loss thereof, is that as people age, sugar bonds with collagen molecules in skin, causing them to cross-link and become less elastic. So, if a person is old and had high blood sugar, they would be more likely to have saggy skin.

The girl in the pictures was 33 yrs old when she had the bypass. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We cannot change our age, or what blood sugars we had, so our options are, naturally, limited. Since relatively few people lose weight and keep it off, doing studies on that is maybe more complicated. — 223/175.2/180

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But, is she the norm for the amount of weight she had to lose?  I have a lot to lose.  I have lost about 45 and have over 125 to go.  I am really fat.  So, it is close enough to what she lost.  But, I am not doing it with gastric bypass and she did.  Would that cause the weight loss SO fast that the result is so much skin.  Was there something wrong with her skin?  Did she not exercise?  What can I do to NOT look like that!

I lost 150 lbs and have saggy skin but nothing like those pictures.  The sagging is a result of many factors but mostly genetics and how long you were fat.  My doctor and plastic surgeon both said that since I was obese since childhood and my mom had skin problems after pregnancies there was no weight loss plan (slow or fast) or cream or any other thing that would have kept me from having the loose skin.  All told between torso/legs/arms it was once estimated that I had close to 20 lbs of skin that could be removed by surgery.  You also need to be at a stable weight for 2 years before you can consider any lifts or tucks. — the volleyballchick

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But, is she the norm for the amount of weight she had to lose?  I have a lot to lose.  I have lost about 45 and have over 125 to go.  I am really fat.  So, it is close enough to what she lost.  But, I am not doing it with gastric bypass and she did.  Would that cause the weight loss SO fast that the result is so much skin.  Was there something wrong with her skin?  Did she not exercise?  What can I do to NOT look like that!

Response:

Ok, I saw a post on: soc.support.fat-acceptance It is titled: Michael Schiavo DEAD…just desserts! post to a woman who had gastric bypass and lost over 200lbs.  Now, they show after photos, and I am telling you, a lot of skin!  I have a lot of weight to lose.  I have done pretty well so far, as of this morning, I have lost 44 lbs. Anyway…  After looking at this last night, I had a hard time sleeping.  I am wondering if you think this woman just had something wrong with the elastic in her skin that would not allow any of her skin to go back to normal?  Or is this just what happens to people that have to lose such a large amount of weight? I may not have quite as much weight to lose as she did, but it is comparable and I am absolutely shocked and scared that this could be the case for me too!  Anyone else that has lost a lot of weight get so much skin it looked like this?  If my boobs end up looking like that, I would rather be fat! Please check that out and tell me what you think.  And if I have offended anyone, I am sorry.  I am just really shocked. I would also like to know if you have any ideas of what a person can do while they are losing weight to prevent some of that saggy skin?  I know that I will have some and I can deal with that, but man, I don’t want anything like she has.  Please tell me of ways to help the skin go back to normal.   Thanks in advance Sherry

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Question:

I agree.  The Kodak DC280 takes pictures that are more than exceptional for eBay sales.  You can’t go wrong with it.  Plus, your description, reputation, and the merchandise itself sells, not the damn picture.  Just buy what you need and practice with it while letting the camera make you money. Rita

I don’t see how it can take decent photos of jewelry, such as a diamond ring. Not owning a camera this cheap, I’d say nothing short of a Canon EOS with a 100 mm macro lens can do the job. I’ve seen some pretty pitiful photos on Ebay for Tiffany diamond rings that the seller wants to pawn off for $9000. Somebody rich enough to own such a ring should pay a jeweler or photographer $15 to photograph it, assuming he doesn’t want to buy a camera.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good??  Julie HP cameras have been total shit bad news, and are unlikely to have improved recently. Use a Minimum of a 5 Megapixel Nikon. See the eBay photography tutorials at http://www.tinaja.com/auct01.asp

I use Nikon coolpix 4500 almost 18 months and Very satisfied.

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she is looking to spend under $150 — what nikon 5MP camera sells that cheap?

I’m sure you can find someone in Nigeria who will sell you a 10 MP Nikon brand new for $150 payable via WU… Evan — To reply, remove TheObvious from my e-mail address.

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It takes FOUR Bayer Filtered camera pixels to make ONE image pixel. Even a modest one-eighth crop throws away well over half of your pixels. Realistic crops throw away nearly all of your pixels. Image postproc works best at 2:1 oversize for antialiasing. The older image processing algorithms (especially Kodak) on the smaller cameras are apallingly bad.

All this matters SO little to people who know nothing about lighting, focus, macro settings, photo editing software, etc.  Any 2MP camera in the right hands will take beautiful pictures.  Rarely does the camera deserve the blame. ef

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The reasons for 5 mp minimum are… It takes FOUR Bayer Filtered camera pixels to make ONE image pixel. Even a modest one-eighth crop throws away well over half of your pixels. Realistic crops throw away nearly all of your pixels. Image postproc works best at 2:1 oversize for antialiasing. The older image processing algorithms (especially Kodak) on the smaller cameras are apallingly bad. Buying an obsolete junk camera is monumentally stupid. Horsehockey.  A used Kodak 2 mp camera is under $100, works great for eBay work and is excellent for 4 by 6 shots any day.

I’ve been using a 1.3 MP Olympus that I bought new 5 years ago when it was the top of the line. I use it at its lowest resolution mode and still crop everything to get a reasonable download speed on eBay pics. I see no need to get anything fancier for eBay use.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The reasons for 5 mp minimum are… It takes FOUR Bayer Filtered camera pixels to make ONE image pixel. Even a modest one-eighth crop throws away well over half of your pixels. Realistic crops throw away nearly all of your pixels. Image postproc works best at 2:1 oversize for antialiasing. The older image processing algorithms (especially Kodak) on the smaller cameras are apallingly bad. Buying an obsolete junk camera is monumentally stupid. Horsehockey.  A used Kodak 2 mp camera is under $100, works great for eBay work and is excellent for 4 by 6 shots any day. I’ve been using a 1.3 MP Olympus that I bought new 5 years ago when it was the top of the line. I use it at its lowest resolution mode and still crop everything to get a reasonable download speed on eBay pics. I see no need to get anything fancier for eBay use.

I STARTED EBAYING with a budget camera with under 1mp and no flash.  I still sold, at a profit.  Although only small it was enough to buy a 2.5mp camera with macro close up which I still use with great results. Mostly I keep image size to 300px wide max as I find that gives a detailed enough pic for most items, and fits my html template for auction description perfectly.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The reasons for 5 mp minimum are… It takes FOUR Bayer Filtered camera pixels to make ONE image pixel. Even a modest one-eighth crop throws away well over half of your pixels. Realistic crops throw away nearly all of your pixels. Image postproc works best at 2:1 oversize for antialiasing. The older image processing algorithms (especially Kodak) on the smaller cameras are apallingly bad. Buying an obsolete junk camera is monumentally stupid. Horsehockey.  A used Kodak 2 mp camera is under $100, works great for eBay work and is excellent for 4 by 6 shots any day.

A used Kodak 2MP camera is worth $3.95 at most. — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

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Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good??  Julie

As mentioned in the other post, look at the old Kodaks (rugged and reliable). The Fuji A330 is a very good camera. Price was just reduced to around $150 at many stores. I’m disappointed with the sharpness/noise of many new 4 and 5 MP cameras, the 3MP A330 retains a sharp and low noise image. It only needs 2 AA batteries and you get good life even with alkaline cells. I’ve shot 60 pix with LCD on and some flash and the alkalines have not quit yet. John

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June of 1998 I purchased a Kodak DC 210 plus for $1,300.00 cdn, I’m still using this camera daily for my ebay pictures. By the way this model has glass optics and it works both in windows and Linux OS.

My deepest condolences. — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good?? Julie A DC280 Kodak 2 MP camera is very easy to use and works great.  You can find them here on eBay pre-enjoyed with batteries and charger for under $100.00 any day.  I bought two and am pleased with both. That is a great recommendation.  I have been using mine since it was first introduced and love it.  I got many years of service out of it and it’s still kicking for as much as I have abused it.  The key to exceptionally great shots with the DC280 and any camera is good lighting. I have been playing with the Nikon D70 and just getting to learn how to use it.  I just started playing with macro and really need to work on getting my lighting techniques perfected.  Here is a shot of my kicking around the warehouse jewelry.  It’s a little dirty, chipped, and beat up but still worthy of a photo. http://www.geocities.com/ritaberk2003/eBay/Saphire_4 As much as I like my DC280 I could never go back to it since I’m getting spoiled with my Nikon. Rita

Looks great, Rita.  I will look for your DC280 to be for sale on eBay. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The reasons for 5 mp minimum are… It takes FOUR Bayer Filtered camera pixels to make ONE image pixel. Even a modest one-eighth crop throws away well over half of your pixels. Realistic crops throw away nearly all of your pixels. Image postproc works best at 2:1 oversize for antialiasing. The older image processing algorithms (especially Kodak) on the smaller cameras are apallingly bad. Buying an obsolete junk camera is monumentally stupid. Horsehockey.  A used Kodak 2 mp camera is under $100, works great for eBay work and is excellent for 4 by 6 shots any day.

June of 1998 I purchased a Kodak DC 210 plus for $1,300.00 cdn, I’m still using this camera daily for my ebay pictures. By the way this model has glass optics and it works both in windows and Linux OS. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good?? Julie A DC280 Kodak 2 MP camera is very easy to use and works great.  You can find them here on eBay pre-enjoyed with batteries and charger for under $100.00 any day.  I bought two and am pleased with both.

I’ll second that. We have one in the office that is used to photograph job sites. We got it October 1999 for $800 or 900! It is rather heavy and bulky by today’s standards given the zoom range. It must be used with Ni-Mh batteries as it eats alkalines for lunch. Even the old Kodak DC215 (1.3MP) is reasonable. Ours was dropped onto concrete. The battery door latch is broken (have to use a nylon strap to keep the batteries in) and the aluminum cladding is loose, but it functions properly. We have another 215 and a DC210. They are quite out dated, but still work. John

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Buying an obsolete junk camera is monumentally stupid. Horsehockey.  A used Kodak 2 mp camera is under $100, works great for eBay work and is excellent for 4 by 6 shots any day.

I agree.  The Kodak DC280 takes pictures that are more than exceptional for eBay sales.  You can’t go wrong with it.  Plus, your description, reputation, and the merchandise itself sells, not the damn picture.  Just buy what you need and practice with it while letting the camera make you money. Rita

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I disagree. Many manufactures are moving to smaller sized sensors in the four and five megapixel models. the result is more noise, less dynamic range and to some extent less resolution (due to noise reduction algorithms). I took my 3MP camera to the local camera store and compared images side by side with a few new models on a monitor. I was really disappointed to find no improvement or even less quality image than what I had. John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – she is looking to spend under $150 — what nikon 5MP camera sells that cheap? what 5mp any brand sells that cheap? 5mp is complete overkill for ebay auction pics unless you are looking to do some high end photography outside of ebay. Anything over 3MP is fine. Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good??  Julie HP cameras have been total shit bad news, and are unlikely to have improved recently. Use a Minimum of a 5 Megapixel Nikon. See the eBay photography tutorials at http://www.tinaja.com/auct01.asp — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com The reasons for 5 mp minimum are… It takes FOUR Bayer Filtered camera pixels to make ONE image pixel. Even a modest one-eighth crop throws away well over half of your pixels. Realistic crops throw away nearly all of your pixels. Image postproc works best at 2:1 oversize for antialiasing. The older image processing algorithms (especially Kodak) on the smaller cameras are apallingly bad. Buying an obsolete junk camera is monumentally stupid. Tutorials at http://www.tinaja.com/auct01.asp — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

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Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good??  Julie

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HP makes a very nice camera — just make sure you get something over 3 megapixels and a decent zoom on it.  Prices have come down so much you can find a lot in your price range. JP http://morebidsmoresales.com/forum – new auction forum  - tips and advice

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good?? Julie

Response:

Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good??  Julie

I personally use a Kodak DX3700 with good success.  Any camera over 3 megapixel or a modern camera over 2mp should do a good enough job.

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Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good??  Julie

HP cameras have been total shit bad news, and are unlikely to have improved recently. Use a Minimum of a 5 Megapixel Nikon. See the eBay photography tutorials at http://www.tinaja.com/auct01.asp — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

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I’ve had good luck with my HP , except it’s pretty hard on batteries, compared to my last camera (a canon)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good?? Julie

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she is looking to spend under $150 — what nikon 5MP camera sells that cheap? what 5mp any brand sells that cheap? 5mp is complete overkill for ebay auction pics unless you are looking to do some high end photography outside of ebay. Anything over 3MP is fine.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good??  Julie HP cameras have been total shit bad news, and are unlikely to have improved recently. Use a Minimum of a 5 Megapixel Nikon. See the eBay photography tutorials at http://www.tinaja.com/auct01.asp — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

Response:

Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good?? Julie

A DC280 Kodak 2 MP camera is very easy to use and works great.  You can find them here on eBay pre-enjoyed with batteries and charger for under $100.00 any day.  I bought two and am pleased with both.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – she is looking to spend under $150 — what nikon 5MP camera sells that cheap? what 5mp any brand sells that cheap? 5mp is complete overkill for ebay auction pics unless you are looking to do some high end photography outside of ebay. Anything over 3MP is fine. Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good??  Julie HP cameras have been total shit bad news, and are unlikely to have improved recently. Use a Minimum of a 5 Megapixel Nikon. See the eBay photography tutorials at http://www.tinaja.com/auct01.asp — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

The reasons for 5 mp minimum are… It takes FOUR Bayer Filtered camera pixels to make ONE image pixel. Even a modest one-eighth crop throws away well over half of your pixels. Realistic crops throw away nearly all of your pixels. Image postproc works best at 2:1 oversize for antialiasing. The older image processing algorithms (especially Kodak) on the smaller cameras are apallingly bad. Buying an obsolete junk camera is monumentally stupid. Tutorials at http://www.tinaja.com/auct01.asp — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

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Don – I agree with you. I always try to buy the newest and most up to date thing out there, but when you are on a budget your really don’t have that option. Julie only wants to spend $150 or less — you can’t get state of the art for that. JP

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – she is looking to spend under $150 — what nikon 5MP camera sells that cheap? what 5mp any brand sells that cheap? 5mp is complete overkill for ebay auction pics unless you are looking to do some high end photography outside of ebay. Anything over 3MP is fine. Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good??  Julie HP cameras have been total shit bad news, and are unlikely to have improved recently. Use a Minimum of a 5 Megapixel Nikon. See the eBay photography tutorials at http://www.tinaja.com/auct01.asp — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com The reasons for 5 mp minimum are… It takes FOUR Bayer Filtered camera pixels to make ONE image pixel. Even a modest one-eighth crop throws away well over half of your pixels. Realistic crops throw away nearly all of your pixels. Image postproc works best at 2:1 oversize for antialiasing. The older image processing algorithms (especially Kodak) on the smaller cameras are apallingly bad. Buying an obsolete junk camera is monumentally stupid. Tutorials at http://www.tinaja.com/auct01.asp — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

Response:

The reasons for 5 mp minimum are… It takes FOUR Bayer Filtered camera pixels to make ONE image pixel. Even a modest one-eighth crop throws away well over half of your pixels. Realistic crops throw away nearly all of your pixels. Image postproc works best at 2:1 oversize for antialiasing. The older image processing algorithms (especially Kodak) on the smaller cameras are apallingly bad. Buying an obsolete junk camera is monumentally stupid.

Horsehockey.  A used Kodak 2 mp camera is under $100, works great for eBay work and is excellent for 4 by 6 shots any day.

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Hello… I was interested in purchasing a digital camera (preferabaly under $150) for the primary purpose of taking pictures for E-Bay auctions but also for a little bit of casual use. Any suggestions are appreciated… I have been told the Fuji A330/340 and HP 435 cameras are good?? Julie A DC280 Kodak 2 MP camera is very easy to use and works great.  You can find them here on eBay pre-enjoyed with batteries and charger for under $100.00 any day.  I bought two and am pleased with both.

That is a great recommendation.  I have been using mine since it was first introduced and love it.  I got many years of service out of it and it’s still kicking for as much as I have abused it.  The key to exceptionally great shots with the DC280 and any camera is good lighting. I have been playing with the Nikon D70 and just getting to learn how to use it.  I just started playing with macro and really need to work on getting my lighting techniques perfected.  Here is a shot of my kicking around the warehouse jewelry.  It’s a little dirty, chipped, and beat up but still worthy of a photo. http://www.geocities.com/ritaberk2003/eBay/Saphire_4 As much as I like my DC280 I could never go back to it since I’m getting spoiled with my Nikon. Rita

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Question:

Beings Im as computer illiterate as they come my new next door neighbor saw that I was kinda down in the dumps and asked if I wanted to use some space on his web site to take my mind off my stbx. Naturally the first thing that came to my mind was to put Rocky’s picture on there. Keep in mind this picture was taken the day I picked him up from my stbx’s house (after she left him in his carrier outside most of the day) and he just came back from being groomed or should I say shaved? So naturally he’s not to happy. Enjoy Will http://www.angelfire.com/d20/dave620/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WARNING…. This is extremely childish but this is the sort of thing I have to deal with when it comes to my stbx. I have a Persian cat, his name is Rocky,  I’ve had him for 8 years, when my stbx told me to get the F**** out of her house I went out and rented an apartment in the same complex that I lived in before I got married. At the time they allowed cats but when I moved back in they said that cats were no longer allowed. I left this complex in good standing and the manager and his wife are friends of mine. When I asked them if I could bring Rocky back they said they didn’t have a problem with it since he’s an indoor cat and didn’t cause any problems the last time we lived here. When I told my stbx I wanted to bring Rocky home with me she was so pissed she put him in his carrier and left him out in the sun for a good part of the day, no food, no water nothing. To get him a litter box, food, food bowl cost me over $70.00, it wouldn’t have cost me a thing but my stbx refused to give me any of that stuff regardless of the fact I moved in there with everything I just mentioned. At first having Rocky here for some reason made me pretty emotional and I called my stbx and said I’d take him to get groomed which set me back 50 bucks and more than likely give him back after a couple of days. That was a week ago, now after having my little buddy back with me I realized that I don’t want to give him back so I called my stbx and tried to explain to her that I get lonely and he gives me the company I need for those times when I need it the most. I tried to explain to her that I’ve had the cat for almost 9 years and he’s my cat, now my stbx is calling me a liar and telling me how I let her 14 year old daughter and her 11 year old son down. She said I broke their hearts, they’ve got 3 other cats they don’t take care of and I broke they hearts because I changed my mind and wanted to keep my cat.  I told her to get another cat, she shot back "why don’t you get another cat?". Why should I? I paid $700.00 for this one why would I want another one? At one point I said fine, I’ll give you the damn cat just to make your kids happy, why should what I want or need mean anything to you, when do you want me to take him over? She responded with "Your nothing but a liar". You see to my stbx anyone who changes their mind according to her is a liar. One thing led to another and I told her to call her attorney have him send whatever papers were necessary and Id be more than happy to sign them that way at least Id be able to get the rest of my stuff out of her house and get her the hell out of my life. I really wanted to make my marriage work but after dealing with something so minor I don’t see how it could possibly work. We were planning on me moving back in if things went ok in therapy why would it matter if took him over now or when I moved back in anyway? Am I wrong in changing my mind and wanting to keep what belongs to me something that I can take better care of? Sheesh… what in the hell did I get myself into. Thanks again Will

Response:

Beings Im as computer illiterate as they come my new next door neighbor saw that I was kinda down in the dumps and asked if I wanted to use some space on his web site to take my mind off my stbx. Naturally the first thing that came to my mind was to put Rocky’s picture on there. Keep in mind this picture was taken the day I picked him up from my stbx’s house (after she left him in his carrier outside most of the day) and he just came back from being groomed or should I say shaved? So naturally he’s not to happy.

Awwww. I didn’t know there were cats that had to be shaved? Glad you have him with you now, maybe this will cheer him up, then maybe he will be a tad happier when he grows out of that bad hair cut. Lori Mc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Enjoy Will http://www.angelfire.com/d20/dave620/ WARNING…. This is extremely childish but this is the sort of thing I have to deal with when it comes to my stbx. I have a Persian cat, his name is Rocky,  I’ve had him for 8 years, when my stbx told me to get the F**** out of her house I went out and rented an apartment in the same complex that I lived in before I got married. At the time they allowed cats but when I moved back in they said that cats were no longer allowed. I left this complex in good standing and the manager and his wife are friends of mine. When I asked them if I could bring Rocky back they said they didn’t have a problem with it since he’s an indoor cat and didn’t cause any problems the last time we lived here. When I told my stbx I wanted to bring Rocky home with me she was so pissed she put him in his carrier and left him out in the sun for a good part of the day, no food, no water nothing. To get him a litter box, food, food bowl cost me over $70.00, it wouldn’t have cost me a thing but my stbx refused to give me any of that stuff regardless of the fact I moved in there with everything I just mentioned. At first having Rocky here for some reason made me pretty emotional and I called my stbx and said I’d take him to get groomed which set me back 50 bucks and more than likely give him back after a couple of days. That was a week ago, now after having my little buddy back with me I realized that I don’t want to give him back so I called my stbx and tried to explain to her that I get lonely and he gives me the company I need for those times when I need it the most. I tried to explain to her that I’ve had the cat for almost 9 years and he’s my cat, now my stbx is calling me a liar and telling me how I let her 14 year old daughter and her 11 year old son down. She said I broke their hearts, they’ve got 3 other cats they don’t take care of and I broke they hearts because I changed my mind and wanted to keep my cat.  I told her to get another cat, she shot back "why don’t you get another cat?". Why should I? I paid $700.00 for this one why would I want another one? At one point I said fine, I’ll give you the damn cat just to make your kids happy, why should what I want or need mean anything to you, when do you want me to take him over? She responded with "Your nothing but a liar". You see to my stbx anyone who changes their mind according to her is a liar. One thing led to another and I told her to call her attorney have him send whatever papers were necessary and Id be more than happy to sign them that way at least Id be able to get the rest of my stuff out of her house and get her the hell out of my life. I really wanted to make my marriage work but after dealing with something so minor I don’t see how it could possibly work. We were planning on me moving back in if things went ok in therapy why would it matter if took him over now or when I moved back in anyway? Am I wrong in changing my mind and wanting to keep what belongs to me something that I can take better care of? Sheesh… what in the hell did I get myself into. Thanks again Will

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Beings Im as computer illiterate as they come my new next door neighbor saw that I was kinda down in the dumps and asked if I wanted to use some space on his web site to take my mind off my stbx. Naturally the first thing that came to my mind was to put Rocky’s picture on there. Keep in mind this picture was taken the day I picked him up from my stbx’s house (after she left him in his carrier outside most of the day) and he just came back from being groomed or should I say shaved? So naturally he’s not to happy. Enjoy Will http://www.angelfire.com/d20/dave620/

What an hysterical picture!  He looks like that one kid from the old Little Rascals movies of the 1930’s. Barb

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Keep in mind this picture was taken the day I picked him up from my stbx’s house (after she left him in his carrier outside most of the day) and he just came back from being groomed or should I say shaved? So naturally he’s not to happy.

If that’s Rocky, it must be Rocky XXIV or something (or starring in "Grumpy Old Cats"!)

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Rocky’s picture:  http://www.angelfire.com/d20/dave620/

I’m a dog-guy, but as cats go… well, its a cat alright. Actually he looks like a great cat.  :-)  [R]

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Keep your cat.  Your s2bx sounds nutzo enough to take it out on the cat.  She’s already demonstrated animal abuse. In a cold world you need your friends to keep you warm.

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I would like to thank everyone for their reply’s, my stbx is a nut case and to make matters worst she has two kids that are going to have their lives virtually ruined because their mother has serious issues and refuses to do anything about them. Thank god I can cut my loses and move on with my life never having to deal with her once the divorce papers are signed. Thanks again Will – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keep your cat.  Your s2bx sounds nutzo enough to take it out on the cat.  She’s already demonstrated animal abuse. In a cold world you need your friends to keep you warm.

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I tried to explain to her that I’ve had the cat for almost 9 years and he’s my cat, now my stbx is calling me a liar and telling me how I let her 14 year old daughter and her 11 year old son down. She said I broke their hearts, they’ve got 3 other cats they don’t take care of and I broke they hearts because I changed my mind and wanted to keep my cat.  I told her to get another cat, she shot back "why don’t you get another cat?". Why should I? I paid $700.00 for this one why would I want another one? At one point I said fine, I’ll give you the damn cat just to make your kids happy, why should what I want or need mean anything to you, when do you want me to take him over? She responded with "Your nothing but a liar". You see to my stbx anyone who changes their mind according to her is a liar.

Your STBX cares nothing about the children, she just knows if you didn’t have the cat it would hurt you. That’s why she wants it. And she’s using the children against you, which is really, really low. IF they already have cats, don’t give the Persian back. If you had the cat before marriage, it’s definitely yours. One thing led to another and I told her to call her attorney have him send whatever papers were necessary and Id be more than happy to sign them that way at least Id be able to get the rest of my stuff out of her house and get her the hell out of my life. I really wanted to make my marriage work but after dealing with something so minor I don’t see how it could possibly work. We were planning on me moving back in if things went ok in therapy why would it matter if took him over now or when I moved back in anyway? Am I wrong in changing my mind and wanting to keep what belongs to me something that I can take better care of?

No. Sheesh… what in the hell did I get myself into.

You chose poorly, that’s all. Your STBX will do anything to keep or destroy your property. Get a good lawyer, file for divorce, then immediately file a temporary order which says: – Your wife will return all of your belongings intact, if she doesn’t she pays for the cost of replacing them. – Your wife is responsible for all debts incurred by her as of the filing date (or your move-out date). – Your wife will give you all your things (and not thrown them out in the rain) within 30 days of signing of this order. A judge has to sign it then the signed copy is entered with the clerk. Then go get your stuff. If you need to, bring a friend with a video recorder to watch her. Then watch her go ape-shit when she sees the video camera! What fun! Anyway, here’s my "Guidelines for leaving". Updated Dec 2, 2003 Leaving ======= General guidelines for leaving a spouse in the US. So you decided to end the marriage and are leaving the house. When it comes time to leave, there are certain things you should do in a certain order, to avoid confrontations with or violence from the spouse. Here’s how to do it. Some rules to follow when doing all these things: – Be polite when working with your spouse. Remember, a calm person comes out as the winner, an upset person comes out as a loser and looks unstable. – Be fair. Take only 1/2 of what you both own. In many states gifts you received while IN THE MARRIAGE you can keep, but this counts towards your half of the assets. Also, things you had BEFORE THE MARRIAGE you can keep, but this also counts toward your half of the assets. The woman is generally not entitled to give the ring back because it was a gift, but if she does, she gets brownie points from the judge. If she keeps the ring, its value counts toward her half of the assets. And diamond rings tend to hold their value over the years. – It may be a good idea to buy a micro cassette recorder and put it in your shirt pocket when talking with your spouse. This is not usually admissable in court but it will give you some leverage against the spouse if they are acting loony, violent, or unfair. If the judge asks "Do you have proof your spouse is a loony?" you can mention the tapes. – If you think the spouse will get violent, call the police. Hide around the street corner and when they show up at the house, then go to the house. Ask the police if they can watch your spouse while you pack. – If the spouse attacks you (even if a wife attacks a man) MAKE A POLICE REPORT. If you don’t have proof (a police report), it will not help you. Assault and battery is illegal even if the receiver is a guy. Finding an apartment Make your budget. Find out the net amount of your paycheck you bring home each month (after taxes, you can’t spend the taxes, can you?). Now subtract rent, car insurance, phone, utilities, gas, food, clothes, entertainment, and any other expenses you can think of. If you have money left over, you are doing good. If not, find places to trim expense, like don’t go to the movies, cancel cable/satellite, don’t go out to eat, eat in instead, buy a cheaper car. Now find a cheap apartment and sign a lease. But find an apartment you like in an area you like. You don’t want to have to move again in a year. Make a GOODY bag (Get Out Of Dodge Yesterday). In it put critical items for your new apartment like a hand towel, soap, toilet paper, notebook and pens, paper cups, plastic forks and spoons, paper plates. Packing up – You will need to get your names off credit cards VERY quickly, that means moving out first. – Try to pack your most valuable things first, like cash, life insurance policies, stock policies, records for your bank accounts, IRAs, and other retirement accounts. Make sure you pack some pens, pencils and a notebook, you will need these later. If you have joint accounts, take the papers, copy them at the library or somewhere else, then return them to the house. – Try to pack when the other spouse is not there, like when they are not at work, or when they are shopping. Have a friend along with a video camera in case they come home early. Hide your car around the block (it could be seen down the street so don’t hide it there) or use a friends car that is not well known. Pack your stuff in the friend’s car then transfer it to your car in a place the spouse does not go. – Remember to pack a suit/dress, you will need it for court proceedings. Assets ====== Decide what possessions to take with you. Generally the state will divide up all the assets so each spouse gets an equal share based on the current sale value of the asset (like if you sold it at a garage sale). The person who gets the house gets the value of the equity of the house, so they will get a lot less other things. Equity is the assessed value of the house minus the mortgage remaining. It is NOT the value of the house plus the amount you spent to improve it minus the mortgage remaining. Generally the state allows you to keep what you had before the marriage, and allows you to keep gifts that were only to you, but this is still part of the "equal share" that the two of you get. Women, if you give the ring back, you will look really good for the judge. But I doubt any judge would require you to do that, since it was a gift from the husband. DON’T DO THE NEXT STEPS UNTIL YOU’RE ALL PACKED UP and moved out. Separating Finances The basic finance separation is in several groups: – Assets – Bank accounts – Credit cards/debit card – Retirement accounts – Loans/mortgages 1. Bank accounts First, get your own account, have the statements mailed to work or a trusted friend’s house or to your new apartment. You don’t want these new statements discovered by the soon to be ex (STBX). When that is final, figure out what half of the cash assets would be (include all money markets, savings and checking accounts, not retirement or IRA accounts). Take half the cash and put it into your new account. Cash, or "liquid assets" can readily be converted to cash. A share in a mutual fund, or stock certificate can readily be converted to cash. Shares in an IRA or retirement account can not plus they get a hefty early withdrawal fee. Take your name off the accounts if possible. If you need their signature to do this, call a lawyer and find out if there’s another way to do this. 2. Credit Cards People often run up huge debts on credit cards in anger. First, try to take your name off all credit cards. I was the primary holder of a credit card, which meant I could put my wife’s name on it, and take it off. She couldn’t do anything. If you’re not the primary holder, AND you can’t get your name off a credit card, talk to a lawyer and find out what can be done. If you can’t do that, lower the limit on every credit card to the minimum. You should be able to do this alone, but then again the spouse could raise it up again by themselves. Talk to the CC company to find out who can do what. Try to freeze the cards so no one can use them and tell the CC company you’ve seen suspicious activity on the cards or you think you’re identity has been stolen. As a last resort, cancel the cards if necessary, but TELL THE SPOUSE a week or two before you do it. You will look bad to the judge if you don’t tell them. Send the spouse a letter so you have paper proof that you told them. 3. Retirement accounts Just start by taking your IRA papers with you. You can sort it all out later in court. Let the other spouse keep their retirement account. 4. Loans/mortgages I don’t know how these are handled. But if you keep your name on the loan you ARE responsible for it, whether you are divorced, separated or not. Try to get your name off the mortgage, but NOT off the title to the house. This is so the other can’t default on … read more »

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that poor cat!! I would keep the cat. anybody who would be that cruel to an animal has something seriously amiss. sounds to me like she’s just trying to hurt you. If she refuses to give you your things maybe you ought to consider calling the police and going to her place with them to get it. (just a suggestion)

I agree.  Anyone who behaves like that towards a cat is likely to also be that cruel to themselves and others too.  Its probably anger and not all of her is like this but all of us need constraints to protect others (and cats) from out anger.  I think its probably not a pleasant experience being near here. keep the cat, it needs you. bogey

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Am I wrong in changing my mind and wanting to keep what belongs to me something that I can take better care of?

Absolutely not. — "Rudeness is the weak man’s imitation of strength"

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    If it was your cat before you were married, it’s your cat now, and your ex can suck an egg.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WARNING…. This is extremely childish but this is the sort of thing I have to deal with when it comes to my stbx. I have a Persian cat, his name is Rocky,  I’ve had him for 8 years, when my stbx told me to get the F**** out of her house I went out and rented an apartment in the same complex that I lived in before I got married. At the time they allowed cats but when I moved back in they said that cats were no longer allowed. I left this complex in good standing and the manager and his wife are friends of mine. When I asked them if I could bring Rocky back they said they didn’t have a problem with it since he’s an indoor cat and didn’t cause any problems the last time we lived here. When I told my stbx I wanted to bring Rocky home with me she was so pissed she put him in his carrier and left him out in the sun for a good part of the day, no food, no water nothing. To get him a litter box, food, food bowl cost me over $70.00, it wouldn’t have cost me a thing but my stbx refused to give me any of that stuff regardless of the fact I moved in there with everything I just mentioned. At first having Rocky here for some reason made me pretty emotional and I called my stbx and said I’d take him to get groomed which set me back 50 bucks and more than likely give him back after a couple of days. That was a week ago, now after having my little buddy back with me I realized that I don’t want to give him back so I called my stbx and tried to explain to her that I get lonely and he gives me the company I need for those times when I need it the most. I tried to explain to her that I’ve had the cat for almost 9 years and he’s my cat, now my stbx is calling me a liar and telling me how I let her 14 year old daughter and her 11 year old son down. She said I broke their hearts, they’ve got 3 other cats they don’t take care of and I broke they hearts because I changed my mind and wanted to keep my cat.  I told her to get another cat, she shot back "why don’t you get another cat?". Why should I? I paid $700.00 for this one why would I want another one? At one point I said fine, I’ll give you the damn cat just to make your kids happy, why should what I want or need mean anything to you, when do you want me to take him over? She responded with "Your nothing but a liar". You see to my stbx anyone who changes their mind according to her is a liar. One thing led to another and I told her to call her attorney have him send whatever papers were necessary and Id be more than happy to sign them that way at least Id be able to get the rest of my stuff out of her house and get her the hell out of my life. I really wanted to make my marriage work but after dealing with something so minor I don’t see how it could possibly work. We were planning on me moving back in if things went ok in therapy why would it matter if took him over now or when I moved back in anyway? Am I wrong in changing my mind and wanting to keep what belongs to me something that I can take better care of? Sheesh… what in the hell did I get myself into. Thanks again Will

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she shot back "why don’t you get another cat?".

People who say things like this have absolutely no clue about the legitimate attachment that some can have for their dogs/cats. I vote for keeping the cat, btw. — Are all women psychotic?… or just the ones I meet?

Response:

that poor cat!! I would keep the cat. anybody who would be that cruel to an animal has something seriously amiss. sounds to me like she’s just trying to hurt you. If she refuses to give you your things maybe you ought to consider calling the police and going to her place with them to get it. (just a suggestion)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WARNING…. This is extremely childish but this is the sort of thing I have to deal with when it comes to my stbx. I have a Persian cat, his name is Rocky,  I’ve had him for 8 years, when my stbx told me to get the F**** out of her house I went out and rented an apartment in the same complex that I lived in before I got married. At the time they allowed cats but when I moved back in they said that cats were no longer allowed. I left this complex in good standing and the manager and his wife are friends of mine. When I asked them if I could bring Rocky back they said they didn’t have a problem with it since he’s an indoor cat and didn’t cause any problems the last time we lived here. When I told my stbx I wanted to bring Rocky home with me she was so pissed she put him in his carrier and left him out in the sun for a good part of the day, no food, no water nothing. To get him a litter box, food, food bowl cost me over $70.00, it wouldn’t have cost me a thing but my stbx refused to give me any of that stuff regardless of the fact I moved in there with everything I just mentioned. At first having Rocky here for some reason made me pretty emotional and I called my stbx and said I’d take him to get groomed which set me back 50 bucks and more than likely give him back after a couple of days. That was a week ago, now after having my little buddy back with me I realized that I don’t want to give him back so I called my stbx and tried to explain to her that I get lonely and he gives me the company I need for those times when I need it the most. I tried to explain to her that I’ve had the cat for almost 9 years and he’s my cat, now my stbx is calling me a liar and telling me how I let her 14 year old daughter and her 11 year old son down. She said I broke their hearts, they’ve got 3 other cats they don’t take care of and I broke they hearts because I changed my mind and wanted to keep my cat.  I told her to get another cat, she shot back "why don’t you get another cat?". Why should I? I paid $700.00 for this one why would I want another one? At one point I said fine, I’ll give you the damn cat just to make your kids happy, why should what I want or need mean anything to you, when do you want me to take him over? She responded with "Your nothing but a liar". You see to my stbx anyone who changes their mind according to her is a liar. One thing led to another and I told her to call her attorney have him send whatever papers were necessary and Id be more than happy to sign them that way at least Id be able to get the rest of my stuff out of her house and get her the hell out of my life. I really wanted to make my marriage work but after dealing with something so minor I don’t see how it could possibly work. We were planning on me moving back in if things went ok in therapy why would it matter if took him over now or when I moved back in anyway? Am I wrong in changing my mind and wanting to keep what belongs to me something that I can take better care of? Sheesh… what in the hell did I get myself into. Thanks again Will

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    Oooo! Nice touch, Joe. ..but won’t they take the other cats as well? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I told my stbx I wanted to bring Rocky home with me she was so pissed she put him in his carrier and left him out in the sun for a good part of the day, no food, no water nothing. Call the ASPCA and have her thrown in jail for animal abuse.  The penalties for abusing a cat are generally higher than that for abusing kids, at least it seems that way.

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    If it was your cat before you were married, it’s your cat now, and your ex can suck an egg.

Technically, that’s correct.  The cat is not community property. — Are all women psychotic?… or just the ones I meet?

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You wanna hear sick? My stbx had a rose tattooed over her left shoulder blade. She wasn’t happy with the rose and had a skull  tattooed  over it instead. When I asked her why a skull she said it signified her kids sucking the life out of her. Now that’s sick. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keep the cat. Anyone who would do that to an animal is sick. Denise WARNING…. This is extremely childish but this is the sort of thing I have to deal with when it comes to my stbx. I have a Persian cat, his name is Rocky,  I’ve had him for 8 years, when my stbx told me to get the F**** out of her house I went out and rented an apartment in the same complex that I lived in before I got married. At the time they allowed cats but when I moved back in they said that cats were no longer allowed. I left this complex in good standing and the manager and his wife are friends of mine. When I asked them if I could bring Rocky back they said they didn’t have a problem with it since he’s an indoor cat and didn’t cause any problems the last time we lived here. When I told my stbx I wanted to bring Rocky home with me she was so pissed she put him in his carrier and left him out in the sun for a good part of the day, no food, no water nothing. To get him a litter box, food, food bowl cost me over $70.00, it wouldn’t have cost me a thing but my stbx refused to give me any of that stuff regardless of the fact I moved in there with everything I just mentioned. At first having Rocky here for some reason made me pretty emotional and I called my stbx and said I’d take him to get groomed which set me back 50 bucks and more than likely give him back after a couple of days. That was a week ago, now after having my little buddy back with me I realized that I don’t want to give him back so I called my stbx and tried to explain to her that I get lonely and he gives me the company I need for those times when I need it the most. I tried to explain to her that I’ve had the cat for almost 9 years and he’s my cat, now my stbx is calling me a liar and telling me how I let her 14 year old daughter and her 11 year old son down. She said I broke their hearts, they’ve got 3 other cats they don’t take care of and I broke they hearts because I changed my mind and wanted to keep my cat.  I told her to get another cat, she shot back "why don’t you get another cat?". Why should I? I paid $700.00 for this one why would I want another one? At one point I said fine, I’ll give you the damn cat just to make your kids happy, why should what I want or need mean anything to you, when do you want me to take him over? She responded with "Your nothing but a liar". You see to my stbx anyone who changes their mind according to her is a liar. One thing led to another and I told her to call her attorney have him send whatever papers were necessary and Id be more than happy to sign them that way at least Id be able to get the rest of my stuff out of her house and get her the hell out of my life. I really wanted to make my marriage work but after dealing with something so minor I don’t see how it could possibly work. We were planning on me moving back in if things went ok in therapy why would it matter if took him over now or when I moved back in anyway? Am I wrong in changing my mind and wanting to keep what belongs to me something that I can take better care of? Sheesh… what in the hell did I get myself into. Thanks again Will

Response:

When I told my stbx I wanted to bring Rocky home with me she was so pissed she put him in his carrier and left him out in the sun for a good part of the day, no food, no water nothing.

Call the ASPCA and have her thrown in jail for animal abuse.  The penalties for abusing a cat are generally higher than that for abusing kids, at least it seems that way.

Response:

Keep the cat. Anyone who would do that to an animal is sick. Denise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WARNING…. This is extremely childish but this is the sort of thing I have to deal with when it comes to my stbx. I have a Persian cat, his name is Rocky,  I’ve had him for 8 years, when my stbx told me to get the F**** out of her house I went out and rented an apartment in the same complex that I lived in before I got married. At the time they allowed cats but when I moved back in they said that cats were no longer allowed. I left this complex in good standing and the manager and his wife are friends of mine. When I asked them if I could bring Rocky back they said they didn’t have a problem with it since he’s an indoor cat and didn’t cause any problems the last time we lived here. When I told my stbx I wanted to bring Rocky home with me she was so pissed she put him in his carrier and left him out in the sun for a good part of the day, no food, no water nothing. To get him a litter box, food, food bowl cost me over $70.00, it wouldn’t have cost me a thing but my stbx refused to give me any of that stuff regardless of the fact I moved in there with everything I just mentioned. At first having Rocky here for some reason made me pretty emotional and I called my stbx and said I’d take him to get groomed which set me back 50 bucks and more than likely give him back after a couple of days. That was a week ago, now after having my little buddy back with me I realized that I don’t want to give him back so I called my stbx and tried to explain to her that I get lonely and he gives me the company I need for those times when I need it the most. I tried to explain to her that I’ve had the cat for almost 9 years and he’s my cat, now my stbx is calling me a liar and telling me how I let her 14 year old daughter and her 11 year old son down. She said I broke their hearts, they’ve got 3 other cats they don’t take care of and I broke they hearts because I changed my mind and wanted to keep my cat.  I told her to get another cat, she shot back "why don’t you get another cat?". Why should I? I paid $700.00 for this one why would I want another one? At one point I said fine, I’ll give you the damn cat just to make your kids happy, why should what I want or need mean anything to you, when do you want me to take him over? She responded with "Your nothing but a liar". You see to my stbx anyone who changes their mind according to her is a liar. One thing led to another and I told her to call her attorney have him send whatever papers were necessary and Id be more than happy to sign them that way at least Id be able to get the rest of my stuff out of her house and get her the hell out of my life. I really wanted to make my marriage work but after dealing with something so minor I don’t see how it could possibly work. We were planning on me moving back in if things went ok in therapy why would it matter if took him over now or when I moved back in anyway? Am I wrong in changing my mind and wanting to keep what belongs to me something that I can take better care of? Sheesh… what in the hell did I get myself into. Thanks again Will

Response:

WARNING…. This is extremely childish but this is the sort of thing I have to deal with when it comes to my stbx. I have a Persian cat, his name is Rocky,  I’ve had him for 8 years, when my stbx told me to get the F**** out of her house I went out and rented an apartment in the same complex that I lived in before I got married. At the time they allowed cats but when I moved back in they said that cats were no longer allowed. I left this complex in good standing and the manager and his wife are friends of mine. When I asked them if I could bring Rocky back they said they didn’t have a problem with it since he’s an indoor cat and didn’t cause any problems the last time we lived here. When I told my stbx I wanted to bring Rocky home with me she was so pissed she put him in his carrier and left him out in the sun for a good part of the day, no food, no water nothing. To get him a litter box, food, food bowl cost me over $70.00, it wouldn’t have cost me a thing but my stbx refused to give me any of that stuff regardless of the fact I moved in there with everything I just mentioned. At first having Rocky here for some reason made me pretty emotional and I called my stbx and said I’d take him to get groomed which set me back 50 bucks and more than likely give him back after a couple of days. That was a week ago, now after having my little buddy back with me I realized that I don’t want to give him back so I called my stbx and tried to explain to her that I get lonely and he gives me the company I need for those times when I need it the most. I tried to explain to her that I’ve had the cat for almost 9 years and he’s my cat, now my stbx is calling me a liar and telling me how I let her 14 year old daughter and her 11 year old son down. She said I broke their hearts, they’ve got 3 other cats they don’t take care of and I broke they hearts because I changed my mind and wanted to keep my cat.  I told her to get another cat, she shot back "why don’t you get another cat?". Why should I? I paid $700.00 for this one why would I want another one? At one point I said fine, I’ll give you the damn cat just to make your kids happy, why should what I want or need mean anything to you, when do you want me to take him over? She responded with "Your nothing but a liar". You see to my stbx anyone who changes their mind according to her is a liar. One thing led to another and I told her to call her attorney have him send whatever papers were necessary and Id be more than happy to sign them that way at least Id be able to get the rest of my stuff out of her house and get her the hell out of my life. I really wanted to make my marriage work but after dealing with something so minor I don’t see how it could possibly work. We were planning on me moving back in if things went ok in therapy why would it matter if took him over now or when I moved back in anyway? Am I wrong in changing my mind and wanting to keep what belongs to me something that I can take better care of? Sheesh… what in the hell did I get myself into. Thanks again Will

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Question:

I’m hoping to get setup in becoming a regular seller on Ebay.  I’m going into this with no money and only a "4" feedback rating.  I’m starting by selling a bunch of stuff around the house to start, something like a virtual garage sale.  Anybody have some advice, or share their own startup experiences / nightmares? Thanks, graeme8

Take it slow at first and ask questions as specific problems come up. If you want to take PayPal read up on their Seller Protection policy before doing so. Don’t necessarily believe what you read on this newsgroup (including my posts). Ed

Response:

… in Overstock’s favor is that they started life as a liquidator selling on eBay,  one of eBay’s biggest sellers.  So they know what’s wrong with eBay (almost everything) and they might have some good ideas about how to fix it.

One of the first "fixes" I noticed was anti-sniping. Auto-extensions are not necessarily a great idea. They at least need to make it optional per auction. The only things broken about eBay auction closes are:   * eBay fails to educate the users that a fixed end     time makes an eBay auction entirely different from     a classical live auction. It’s actually a sealed-bid     Vickrey auction for those who understand it.   * that eBay itself doesn’t provide sniping (sealed-bid)     services. They could call it "scheduled bid". — http://www.access-one.com/rjn           email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

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The next big issue with selling on eBay is the disorganization.  Be sure,  right from the start,  to keep good records of everything you do.  Unlike just about any other business,  eBay won’t keep good records for you.  This is especially important because it’s hard to make money on eBay these days,  so you better keep track of what you’re doing so you don’t end up losing money rather than making it. I suspect,  when you factor in all the time,  materials,  fees,  and other costs,  that most people on eBay would be better off going to work in a Chinese factory for 50 cents a week.

Please don’t take this as an insult, but that has got to be the most asinine thing anyone has ever said in this group, you even got Fred beat with this one. First off, let me say it’s *YOUR* responsibility to keep records of everything you do, not eBay’s or anyone else’s.  You are only paying eBay strictly for advertising, nothing more.  When some of these sellers figure this out and start realizing what running a business entails than they won’t bitch about eBay’s criminally and insanely low fees. Rita

Response:

The biggest issue that any eBay user needs to get clear about is fraud.

While there is fraud, it’s a very small part of eBay.   One way to minimize your risk as a seller is to avoid international shipments. PP provides no protection for the seller on international shipments.  They have a reputation of taking the buyer’s  side & seller beware.  As a buyer, always pay for items using a different account from selling.   That allows you to voice an honest feedback without risking a retaliation onto your sales feedback.  Generally speaking, poor feedback hurts the seller much more than the buyer.  Also consider funding PP purchase using a credit card.  Such purchases can be reverse without   much hassle.  When buying, avoid all sellers with <99% positive feedback when their  totals exceed perhaps 200 sales (below that point, a few negatives can significantly distort the rating).   It’s also wise to avoid electronics & buying expensive items from those with limited feedback, especially  sellers without a history of seller  the particular item.  A lot of scampers build up feedback with  <$1   purchases and suddenly start selling $100 cameras, etc. The next big issue with selling on eBay is the disorganization.  Be sure,  right from the start,  to keep good records of everything you do.  Unlike just about any other business,  eBay won’t keep good records for you.  

Do keep good records.   If you don’t track your costs accurately, you’ll be paying more taxes than you should (assuming you are ethical). This is especially important because it’s hard to make money on eBay these days,  so you better keep track of what you’re doing so you don’t end up losing money rather than making it. I suspect,  when you factor in all the time,  materials,  fees,  and other costs,  that most people on eBay would be better off going to work in a Chinese factory for 50 cents a week.

True.  There’s little doubt that most sellers grossly underestimate their time & expenses.  Furthermore, it’s best to focus on what you know best. There are already a lot of very experienced sellers of most every item who know their costs  well. As for the fees.  At eBay,  the fees are pretty major,  at least several times as large as you’ll pay at most competing auction services.

. Figure about 4-5% for Paypal & 7-8% for eBay.  If that’s concerning, you shouldn’t be considering eBay.  You may be able to survive under that burden or you may not.  Be careful. Obviously, many are still holding out at eBay under the hope that the large market of buyers will sustain them.  I think that’s on the verge of breaking.  I see this year as a break out year for the competition,  which generally provides much lower fees and better service.  That may or may not be the case with you. I’d try alternative auction sites like Overstock, Bidville, MSN auctions, etc.,  for comparison.

These alternate sites bring significantly less lookers / potential buyers.  You’ll get significantly more coverage / exposure on eBay.   These other sites may be OK for buying (very limited  competition), but   they can be a big loser for sellers.  On the other hand, you probably won’t have to worry much about packaging supplies when selling on these alternate sites.   If you’re only selling small items,  you can escape the huge PayPal commissions by keeping an entry level PayPal account that cannot accept credit card payments.  

That will only significantly reduce the number of potential buyers.   Most have credit card accounts.  Furthermore,  about 70-80% of auctions   seem to be paid via PP, so don’t even consider not accepting PP. Some potential buyers will balk,  but you’ll save a great deal of money on the commissions.  Once you upgrade to a Business account that can accept credit card payments,  you have to pay the commission on every sale,  whether or not it’s from credit cards.

It’ll be 4-5%, but  it’s worth the  significantly higher pool of potential buyers. Good luck.  Ebay is a pretty bad place to sell these days,  so you’re going to need it.

Luck isn’t going to help much.  Success will depend on your buying & selling skills –  knowing what to buy, how much to pay for it,  how to differentiate your product with brief, but comprehensive, accurate descriptions, knowing your real costs,  etc.

Response:

Thanks Cynthia. That was helpful to me as a new seller too!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m hoping to get setup in becoming a regular seller on Ebay.  I’m going into this with no money and only a "4" feedback rating.  I’m starting by selling a bunch of stuff around the house to start, something like a virtual garage sale.  Anybody have some advice, or share their own startup experiences / nightmares? Thanks, I’m an occasional seller… and I started just this way, selling stuff that was unneeded around the house. My advice… before listing anything, check to see if it is likely to sell at ALL! Some household items just aren’t worth it… not in demand, too heavy to be cost effective for shipping, etc… For instance… my husband produced two old cameras, one a compact 35mm Ricoh, the other a Minolta 110. Research to see what they were selling for told me I’d be lucky to get $5-6 for BOTH. Considering I didn’t know if either is in working condition and both appeared quite dirty, I decided it wasn’t even worthwhile to do an "AS IS" style auction… because of the risk of potential negative feedback. They went to the Salvation Army instead. Selling some low cost items can help build your feedback rating. Just don’t bother with items that will end by costing YOU money to sell! That said, one of the best sales I ever made was when I was going through old papers throwing out stuff and found a large group of simple paper catalogs (one sheet xeroxes, basically) sent to me free by the manufacturer for over 10 years. I decided they might be of interest to a collector and listed them with a low starting bid. That pile of free stuff that I would have thrown out brought in $90+! So do your research first! Try to take at least one good clear picture. Treat your customers the way you’d like to be treated. Give a good description and be honest about it. Ship promptly and well-packed. Be realistic with pricing. Read the eBay rules… yes, read them and read them thoroughly! Don’t assume that just because another seller is doing it, that it is legit or OK with eBay! If you plan to use PayPal, read those rules as well. Realize that the protections offered to sellers are fairly minimal. Also realize that more people on eBay are honest than not. Have fun! Selling on eBay is hard work… you might as well enjoy it! Cynthia

Response:

I’m hoping to get setup in becoming a regular seller on Ebay.  I’m going into this with no money and only a "4" feedback rating.  I’m starting by selling a bunch of stuff around the house to start, something like a virtual garage sale.  Anybody have some advice, or share their own startup experiences / nightmares? Thanks,

I’m an occasional seller… and I started just this way, selling stuff that was unneeded around the house. My advice… before listing anything, check to see if it is likely to sell at ALL! Some household items just aren’t worth it… not in demand, too heavy to be cost effective for shipping, etc… For instance… my husband produced two old cameras, one a compact 35mm Ricoh, the other a Minolta 110. Research to see what they were selling for told me I’d be lucky to get $5-6 for BOTH. Considering I didn’t know if either is in working condition and both appeared quite dirty, I decided it wasn’t even worthwhile to do an "AS IS" style auction… because of the risk of potential negative feedback. They went to the Salvation Army instead. Selling some low cost items can help build your feedback rating. Just don’t bother with items that will end by costing YOU money to sell! That said, one of the best sales I ever made was when I was going through old papers throwing out stuff and found a large group of simple paper catalogs (one sheet xeroxes, basically) sent to me free by the manufacturer for over 10 years. I decided they might be of interest to a collector and listed them with a low starting bid. That pile of free stuff that I would have thrown out brought in $90+! So do your research first! Try to take at least one good clear picture. Treat your customers the way you’d like to be treated. Give a good description and be honest about it. Ship promptly and well-packed. Be realistic with pricing. Read the eBay rules… yes, read them and read them thoroughly! Don’t assume that just because another seller is doing it, that it is legit or OK with eBay! If you plan to use PayPal, read those rules as well. Realize that the protections offered to sellers are fairly minimal. Also realize that more people on eBay are honest than not. Have fun! Selling on eBay is hard work… you might as well enjoy it! Cynthia

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I’ve sold over 1000 items over the course of 5 or so years, and I have only had 2 people not pay me.  

Our non payment rate is about 1 in 200 (nearly 9k auctions).

Response:

I’m hoping to get setup in becoming a regular seller on Ebay.  I’m going into this with no money and only a "4" feedback rating.  I’m starting by selling a bunch of stuff around the house to start, something like a virtual garage sale.  Anybody have some advice, or share their own startup experiences / nightmares? Thanks, graeme8

It’s not that hard, plus it is fun. The things that will get you the best bids are concise descriptions and good pictures. Other things that work for me, but not always agreed on, are choosing your start and end time carefully. Over the years, I played around with my items and I found that different things do better ending on specific days and times. You should play around with your stuff and see if you find that, too, or if it makes no difference. Think about what you look for when you browse, and use that to decide how to write your listings.  I like the gallery pictures (which cost extra) but people who sell engines probably don’t need that feature. I think that the bold, the purple shading, and the optional second line are quite a waste of money. You might feel differently though. Lots of the things you read here are worst-case scenarios. (Lots of us have Don and Rita plonked, too.)  Most of the people you will deal with are friendly and honest. I’ve sold over 1000 items over the course of 5 or so years, and I have only had 2 people not pay me.  As a result, I’ve not made a science of studying those behaviors or creating blocked bidder lists. Good luck, and enjoy! Post a link to your first auction, and we’ll gladly critique it for you. A

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I’m hoping to get setup in becoming a regular seller on Ebay.  I’m going into this with no money and only a "4" feedback rating.  I’m starting by selling a bunch of stuff around the house to start, something like a virtual garage sale.  Anybody have some advice, or share their own startup experiences / nightmares? Thanks, graeme8

Response:

I’m hoping to get setup in becoming a regular seller on Ebay.  I’m going into this with no money and only a "4" feedback rating.  I’m starting by selling a bunch of stuff around the house to start, something like a virtual garage sale.  Anybody have some advice, or share their own startup experiences / nightmares?

Collective group knowledge (although it’s a bit out of date): <http://www.faqs.org/faqs/business/online-marketing/ebay/ Plus Dave’s Auction Myths site has some interesting info: <http://www.auctionmyths.com/ I’m just a small-time buyer/seller myself, so I don’t have a lot of personal experience to offer. -Bertha — You can talk about cha cha, tango, waltz, or the rhumba. Senora’s dance has no title,         you jump in the saddle hold on to the bridle.                         — Harry Belafonte, "Jump in the Line"

Response:

I’m hoping to get setup in becoming a regular seller on Ebay.  I’m going into this with no money and only a "4" feedback rating.  I’m starting by selling a bunch of stuff around the house to start, something like a virtual garage sale.  Anybody have some advice, or share their own startup experiences / nightmares? Thanks, graeme8

http://www.tinaja.com/auct01.asp especilly http://www.tinaja.com/glib/ebaysell.pdf — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

Response:

I’m hoping to get setup in becoming a regular seller on Ebay.  I’m going into this with no money and only a "4" feedback rating.  I’m starting by selling a bunch of stuff around the house to start, something like a virtual garage sale.  Anybody have some advice, or share their own startup experiences / nightmares? Thanks, graeme8

The biggest issue that any eBay user needs to get clear about is fraud. You may think it’s not an issue for a seller but it is.  Also, a new eBay user might be fooled by eBay and PayPal’s marketing stunts that they protect you against fraud.  They don’t.  You’re much more at risk of fraud on eBay than in almost any other business venue. There are two reasons fraud is so prevalent on eBay.  One is that eBay doesn’t care and doesn’t need to care about it as long as people keep using their service.  The other reason is that it’s currently the largest online auction site,  so it attracts most of the world’s frauds.  The situation is just like with Windows in the software world,  where all the high profile virus and other attacks are on Windows systems,  because Microsoft didn’t do anything to guard its customers against it,  and because it’s the biggest target. I know of at least one alternate site that takes fraud seriously and has basically eliminated it.  However,  it’s not for garage sale merchandise,  and I don’t want new competition there,  so I won’t mention it. Overstock.com is promoting its new auction site as having better protection than eBay.  It’s hard to see how they could be any worse, but it remains to be seen how much better they really turn out to be. One thing in Overstock’s favor is that they started life as a liquidator selling on eBay,  one of eBay’s biggest sellers.  So they know what’s wrong with eBay (almost everything) and they might have some good ideas about how to fix it. Another site that’s being started by a long time eBay seller fed up with eBay’s problems is Wagglepop.  They’re not yet open,  but they’re generating a lot of interest,  so keep your eye on them. The next big issue with selling on eBay is the disorganization.  Be sure,  right from the start,  to keep good records of everything you do.  Unlike just about any other business,  eBay won’t keep good records for you.  This is especially important because it’s hard to make money on eBay these days,  so you better keep track of what you’re doing so you don’t end up losing money rather than making it. I suspect,  when you factor in all the time,  materials,  fees,  and other costs,  that most people on eBay would be better off going to work in a Chinese factory for 50 cents a week. As for the fees.  At eBay,  the fees are pretty major,  at least several times as large as you’ll pay at most competing auction services.  You may be able to survive under that burden or you may not.  Be careful. Obviously, many are still holding out at eBay under the hope that the large market of buyers will sustain them.  I think that’s on the verge of breaking.  I see this year as a break out year for the competition,  which generally provides much lower fees and better service.  That may or may not be the case with you. I’d try alternative auction sites like Overstock, Bidville, MSN auctions, etc.,  for comparison. Staying on eBay in the hopes of profiting from the migration of fellow sellers is an option some have advocated here.  It’s an antisocial thing to do,  and it might make you unpopular with your friends,  but it’s your decision — a bit like crossing picket lines in hopes of getting a promotion.  Check out some of the online petitions against eBay and some of the seller groups organizing themselves for a move away from eBay,  e.g. http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?ebayfee http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/GreedBay/ If you’re only selling small items,  you can escape the huge PayPal commissions by keeping an entry level PayPal account that cannot accept credit card payments.  Some potential buyers will balk,  but you’ll save a great deal of money on the commissions.  Once you upgrade to a Business account that can accept credit card payments,  you have to pay the commission on every sale,  whether or not it’s from credit cards. One final thing.  The very first sale I made on eBay went to someone in Great Britain.  The buyer took it upon himself to enter a shipping charge before I sent an invoice,  and it was much too low.  He saw I had no feedback and probably thought he could take advantage of me.  And in fact,  I was worried I was going to get burned if I made a stink.  It was a pretty awkward situation.  I advise you,  stand your ground from the very start.  If someone tries to jerk you around,  be polite but don’t engage them in a back and forth,  just tell them how it’s going to be. Good luck.  Ebay is a pretty bad place to sell these days,  so you’re going to need it.

Response:

Hello. I am thinking of selling on Ebay. Been a buyer for years. Is there a book or other resource that would help me get started? Thanks. Oh look, there are people making money on Ebay, I WANT SOME,

What’s wrong with that? I havent got a clue what I am doing, so I will copy everyone else.

What better way to learn than from the experience and resulting wisdom of others? Of course I dont give a damn if this devalues Ebay,

Assuming that RO becomes a competent seller, how will this devalue eBay? and I dont give a damn about customers or service.

Huh?!  What leads you to believe that RO ("a buyer for years") isn’t interested providing a high level of customer service?  On the contrary, it appears that he/she is particularly interested in doing a good job. Nope, I just want some money, and original thought is an alien concept to me. As well as being unable to think or act for myself,

Where are you getting this from?! I would rather give someone else money so that I can follow their advice.

1. RO made no mention of paying for "a book or other resource."  Don Lancaster doesn’t charge money to access his site, and I’ve seen eBay-related books at my local public library. 2. What’s wrong with purchasing such a book?  Plenty of copies are sold via eBay!

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Hello. I am thinking of selling on Ebay. Been a buyer for years. Is there a book or other resource that would help me get started? Thanks.

Andrew L. J. Heenan replied: Please visit Don Lancaster’s GURU’s LAIR at http://www.tinaja.com

Regarding eBay-related books, numerous titles are available, some of which concentrate specifically on the topic of selling.  I haven’t read any of them, so I can’t comment upon their value.

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Hello. I am thinking of selling on Ebay. Been a buyer for years. Is there a book or other resource that would help me get started? Thanks.

Take out The Official eBay Bible by Jim Griffith from your library.  It is quite good.

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Hello. I am thinking of selling on Ebay. Been a buyer for years. Is there a book or other resource that would help me get started? Thanks.

Avoid books that teach you the mechanics of selling on Ebay.  Most of them are a rehash of eBay’s Help files as they were six months ago, or longer, when the book was written.  You’re better off with eBay’s current Help files for learning the mechanics. Avoid e-Books.  They are designed to separate you from your money, not help you make money on eBay. Most of them contain information that you already know, or, worse, that you already know and which isn’t necessarily true (such as "Sunday nights are the best time to sell.") Do check out this group’s FAQs. Do visit Don Lancaster’s Web pages, realizing that all the advice therein applies 100 percent if you’re selling the things Don Lancaster is selling, and to a lesser extent to what you sell. Do follow this newgroup closely.  You’ll not only find excellent advice here, you’ll find *conflicting* advice, so you’ll get several sides to most issues and can decide for yourself which works best for you. Do use Google’s Groups search capabilities to read older newsgroup messages on topics you’re wondering about. After you’ve been selling awhile, you’ll want to enhance your skills by applying time-tested marketing techniques that can increase your sales.  Look for an eBay-specific book that spends more time showing you how to sell than how to navigate eBay’s menus.  Such a book won’t go outdated and will have information you can actually use.  The only one I am aware of at the moment is "eBay FAQs and Fiction: The Guerilla Guide to Selling Profitably Online."  The author is a veteran of 8000 eBay transactions, has 6200+ positive feedbacks (and only 5 negatives), and was a marketing consultant for a dozen Fortune 100 companies for 18 years before they wised up and threw him out on his ear.

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… follow this newgroup closely.  You’ll not only find excellent advice here, you’ll find *conflicting* advice, so you’ll get several sides to most issues and can decide for yourself which works best for you…

I think that what you’ve just stated is some of the best advice there could be for a new seller. After reading the opinions of sellers here for a couple of years it has become quite clear to me that what works for one seller may not work at all for the next seller. Read and consider everyone’s opinions. Then consider, "does this guy sell fire trucks, or guitar strings or diamond rings?". There is a different selling approach for each of those widgets. Lumpy — In Your Ears for 40 Years www.lumpymusic.com

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Hello. I am thinking of selling on Ebay. Been a buyer for years. Is there a book or other resource that would help me get started? Thanks.

http://www.tinaja.com/glib/ebaysell.pdf — Many thanks, Don Lancaster Synergetics   3860 West First Street  Box 809  Thatcher, AZ 85552 Please visit my GURU’s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

Response:

Hello. I am thinking of selling on Ebay. Been a buyer for years. Is there a book or other resource that would help me get started? Thanks.

A lot of that depends on what kind of selling you intend to do.  What exactly do you want to sell?  Do you just have a few things you want to get rid of?   Do you want to make this some type of part-time business?  Or, are you aiming for a full-time career? The advice one would give is very different depending on your goal.

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Hello. I am thinking of selling on Ebay. Been a buyer for years. Is there a book or other resource that would help me get started? Thanks.

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 I am thinking of selling on Ebay. Been a buyer for years.  Is there a book or other resource that would help me get started?

Please visit Don Lancaster’s GURU’s LAIR at http://www.tinaja.com "Many thanks" ;o)

Response:

Hello. I am thinking of selling on Ebay. Been a buyer for years. Is there a book or other resource that would help me get started? Thanks.

Oh look, there are people making money on Ebay, I WANT SOME, I havent got a clue what I am doing, so I will copy everyone else. Of course I dont give a damn if this devalues Ebay, and I dont give a damn about customers or service. Nope, I just want some money, and original thought is an alien concept to me. As well as being unable to think or act for myself, I would rather give someone else money so that I can follow their advice. </sarcasm off Have you ever thought of doing what the rest of us that actually make money do?. Thats researching the market, finding niche products and selling them?. or do you just jump on every bandwagon that comes down your street?

Response:

Question:

But there seem to be a significant number of women out there wearing absolutely gargantuan collections of rocks on their ring fingers, sink or no sink.  Maybe they and/or their prospectives bought into that ad campaign, but from what I’ve seen at least part of it has something to do with status, as in "my ring’s bigger than your ring, nah nah". Thoroughly disgusting.

I’ve never owned a diamond ring, don’t have any particular interest in them at all.  On the other hand, if some prospective bride and groom decide that would make them happy and buy themselves a diamond, I fail to see how that impacts me at all.  Why should I, or anybody else, care what somebody else decides to do with their own money? Here’s a ring story for you: a couple got engaged, and he picked out for her a whopping big diamond, 18-caret setting, the whole nine yards.  For the wedding ring, however, he selected a plain 10-caret band.  There’s a message there …

What’s the message?  And what is wrong with a plain 10-caret band?  I wore one of them for 23 years.  Paid something like $25.00 for it.

Response:

Here’s a ring story for you: a couple got engaged, and he picked out for her a whopping big diamond, 18-caret setting, the whole nine yards.  For the wedding ring, however, he selected a plain 10-caret band.  There’s a message there …

I don’t understand the message.  

Response:

Here’s a ring story for you: a couple got engaged, and he picked out for her a whopping big diamond, 18-caret setting, the whole nine yards.  For the wedding ring, however, he selected a plain 10-caret band.  There’s a message there …

I spent $1,000 on my wife’s engagement ring, and $300 on her wedding band.  Traditionally, wedding bands are plainer than engagement rings.  The message seems to be that he’s following tradition, albeit on a level few of us will ever know.    [Roger]

Response:

The message seems to be that he’s following tradition

Oh, so he’s heading towards lifetime alimony with an ex that doesn’t work?

Response:

Sounds like you are choosing the wrong women. I have never owned a diamond ring in my life.  I was never given one as a gift, never bought one, didn’t ask for one, don’t need one.

Exactly!  My wedding, engagement ring and eternity ring together cost no more than

Question:

I brought child over to grand parents, so I would guess, at the same time she took all of these items! Next day I went to apartment & found all this stuff gone!

Response:

she lives in a different county now with a family member, however she did come back to the apartment (while I was at work) where I was still living & took more stuff, as I wrote before, like the kitchen table, vacuum + her clothes & most of the baby stuff.

Response:

she lives in a different county now with a family member, however she did come back to the apartment (while I was at work) where I was still living & took more stuff, as I wrote before, like the kitchen table, vacuum + her clothes & most of the baby stuff.

Change the locks!

Response:

Changing the locks would do no good at that time, as she was still on the lease & she could obtain a key if I did change the locks…so I moved out.

Response:

Brilliant,  slash her tires….nice one (fool) Re: It doesn’t get worse then this!   Things I might do … Get a lawyer File a motion to gain access to your child 50% of the time — make sure you get him/her this amount of time! Get a PO Box to get you mail … put in a change of address notice ASAP. (court summons, personal statements, etc … I’ll bet you’ll never see this stuff) Cancel your name off all joint checking, credit cards Move check books & other items to parents house or office Drain the joint bank account — but still pay bills directly to creditor with new sole checking account (power, water) … document funds taken and bills paid — don’t spend it or hide it! Cancel land phone … get your own cell to call the attorney & ask what he’s doing for $300/hr? Rent storage unit … take anything valuable — get two padlocks with secure fence/gated area File a restraining order to keep her away Lock vehicle (take her spare set away) Start system from OS/floppy … repartition, reinstall OS, install your own lock … or take system to storage unit. I’ll bet she’s got something to hide on the computer .. All the crap is marital assets …start list now. Even though you’ll probably never see 3/4 of it again, you’re entitled to 50% … pictures taken in the house might document TV, DVD, CDs, etc. Snag every bit of evidence of her finances that you can … credit cards, bank statements, etc. She can’t dictate when your parents can see their grandchild. FL has grandparents rights … I’m sure other states do as well. This is war … she appears psychotic & certifiably insane. In marital lingo, this means scheming & conniving with the goal of fleecing you for all she can get. Slash her tires, let air out, put nail under the tires …. like, daily. This "lady" needs something to keep her busy vs. falsely accusing you of abuse – which, BTW, she will use in court against you to ensure she gets the judges sympathy … don’t forget to look for tears in her eyes during the court appearance.

Here is a little history of my life in the past 2 months 2 weeks prior to divorce (late jan), wife took total control of all monies in bank, took phone out of bedroom (she slept in den) & she also took control over the computer, adding passwords….all these things are little when compared to her control over my parents, 2 months prior to the divorce, she said my parents were no longer aloud to see my child + she soon told me that I could not see my parents as well, in case you were wondering, my parents did nothing wrong, my mother got into a argument w/ my wife 5 months prior to all of this & my wife never dropped the issue, my wife told my mother early on that she did not have to see her child , so my mother called my wife a piece of sh**

Question:

Andy, You talked about papers being signed, so I am now wondering if you both are from different cultures, or the same. If you are from different cultures, that might explain why there is a communication problem. I’m not saying you can’t talk with each other, but that some times different cultures, or languages make it hard to understand each other, and how you were brought up changes the way you interact in a marriage. From what you wrote, I don’t see too much hope for you all, I’m sorry, but maybe it is time to go your seperate ways. momalot <c…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:TQNia.16070$vs.749896@news3.calgary.shaw.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

barbwireandlace <barbwireandl…@hotmail.com wrote: You didn’t mention how long you have been married, but I find that in a early marriage there are a lot of differences to work out. Simple things that can soon turn into big things. It sounds like you are both pulling

away

from each other, instead of finding out exactly what you want in your marriage. Its 6 years so far. Ok, we have gotten married for papers, and told each

other

that we would try hard to make this work. Well, I guess it might not be

working.

I have really denied myself even socializing with any females, so to make sure that I am not looking for easy way out – in this 6 years. However early there, she was worried that I would leave, so she did not

sign

papers for me for a while, after we moved together. I could’ve been

deported

she realized that. But after a while she did sign the papers after like 1

year

or something. Her decision to do that put hardships on our life, first 2

years

of life, because she was only one working and going to school, since I

could

not bring any money home, as much as I wished. I feel that she still that

she

is distrustful towards me. When I was asking her why did she do that, she told me exacly what I told you, after not wanting to tell me a few times

befor.

Her parents were disapproving our marrige too. Her family barely accepts

me

now. Few do much more, then the rest. Like her distant uncle, and aunt

where

we live now. I don’t think I can live in atmosphere of such mistrust and ridicule of

who

I am. That what it feels like. I am gemeni, so naturally I am a bit more mixed up then other signs, plus I am a horse, so I do like to work like a horse, for things that I belive in. She is completely disinitrested in

what

I do, how I am planning to make ourselves "fuck you" rich. She is very outgoing, she bonds with people well, but on the home front

she

does not seem to deal all that well. She was always getting in fights with her parents. Anyway having a fight it seems is her way to communicate

about

present tasks/problems at hand. If I am not paying attention to her wether I am busy or tired, she gets upset and starts a fight size of texas. Some days it is not so bad. So all of my friends like her, and I can see how they will react to me

divorcing.

You mention that she expects to be pampered and to have some money

withen

your marriage. Maybe that is not really her problem. Maybe she feels

your

feelings for her wandering, and the only way she can let you feel her helplessness is to critisize you for not being who she wants. Just a thought, don’t know if that helps or not. I was not wandering until 2 month ago. At all. We were trying make it

work,

it worked a bit so as long as we don’t really try to solve anything

together.

So if we do separate tasks between two of us and don’t try get other one to do it, then we would be fine. Also being seprated into two rooms, did work to reduce number of conflicts. I don’t think that marrige suppose

to

be that way. I want to sit down at the table with my spouse and figure out financial strategies for our investments, but I feel that we would not get anywhere, because either of us does not really listen to each other. Best thing we do, is pretend and play along without being genuine(which really irks me). If you want your marriage to work, you need to put away the silly

feelings

for her girlfriend. You do realize that nothing good will come of that

don’t

you? It is very easy to turn away from your spouse, and seek

companionship

with someone else. It seems like a easy fix to happiness. Look at the

long

run though, and realize though that you are not solving your happiness problem, and in truth only adding another wedge between you and your

wife.

If silly was the word to desribe them, then it would be fine. They are

more

then silly, because I am not seeking her for sex, but for companionship. Perhaps that I can’t see myself having kids with my wife, because of how

often

we fight and bicker about basic things, I do see myself having kids with

her

friend. And whats more I am prepared to go where she goes. To the end of

the

world? I think you get the hint where I am going with this. If you think your marriage can not be saved, then you must be honest and

end

it, before turning to someone else. That is the decent thing to do.

Maybe

you could try and put as much energy into getting to know your wife, and working your problems out first before you throw in the towel. I think it our fault that we did not fix marrige, because when I have realized feelings for her girlfriend, the weight of all negative things and troubles in our relationship, plus a pull of my

heart

towards her, made my head really spin. I am trying to weigh and balance

things

here, but my head is still spinning. Really hard, which makes my head hurt sometimes. I think I should give last fair chance to our 6 year wandering. Ask yourself these questions honestly… Do you love your wife? Do you see a future with her if you are happy in your own life? What are the needs that need to be met so that your wife is happy and

what

are your needs that you need to be happy? Talk those over with each other, and see where that leads to. I am looking at it now, it seems that I can’t picture myself with my wife, while she is wonderful person, but mostly outsiders. Another suggestion, and I have used this myself. When you are angry it

is so

easy to say things you don’t really mean, and it hurts the other person terribly. Try asking her if you two can get together in a week, and have

a

talk about your marriage. That gives you both a week to get your

thoughts

together, and come to the feelings on what you want to say without

having

anger in your voice, and a need to hurt each other. Tried that, she just gets either: 1. angry and worked up, and defensive. after which she clamps up and talk

is

pretty much over. 2. she starts crying, which quicky leads to No. 1. See her way of dealing with things is *not to deal* with them. Put them

away

somewhere in her mind and forget about them. I try to talk to her about things, and it just leads to more fights to be forgotten. Many of at least

marginally

wise would say that this approach would lead to explosive situation and instability in relationships. But here it is, and I am stuck with it. I’m not much help for you, but just some suggestions you could try or

think

about. Probably I’d have to talk to my parents, because they are quite good at

this

relationship stuff, I am going to visit them soon. And another thing: I don’t think I can see my wifes friend with another

person,

which makes it really hard. Love? Quite probably. I guess we have lots of baggage in our relationship eh? If you can call

that,

a relationship… thanks, Andy.

Response:

<c…@yahoo.com

wrote: QUESTION: should I look at relationship and say gee there so many things wrong with it, that I should not stay unless most of them can’t be fixed? I mean do I try to suffer, and keep going with relationship? Like being moderately irratated and annoyed at my wife, throughout my lifetime?

I suspect everything you’ve described will come back and bite you in the next relationship if you don’t figure it out.  This is not the kind of dynamic that is caused by one person in the relationship, and besides you choose her for a reason.  You might try Marriagebuilders.com.  Read up on love busters.

Response:

<c…@yahoo.com

wrote: For some reason I feel ill really analyzing our relationship… like I feel stressed and my stomach feels funny, would that be telltale sign of anything?

It might only be a sign that your trying to wrestle with some very challenging emotional issues in a healthy way. For whatever that perspective might be worth to you. CJ

Response:

Emma Anne <m…@earthlink.net

wrote: <c…@yahoo.com wrote: I suspect everything you’ve described will come back and bite you in the next relationship if you don’t figure it out.  This is not the kind of dynamic that is caused by one person in the relationship, and besides you choose her for a reason.  You might try Marriagebuilders.com.  Read up on love busters.

I just got in middle of ‘men are from mars and women are from venus’. Alot of things there make sense, and I can see where I was wrong and where she was wrong. And is. But I don’t think it will make me stop from feeling about her friend. As I said it was subtle, and started a long time ago, I suppressed it and now its all here. With feelings for another person, living in marriage is rather distressing for me, because we talked on few ocassions, that we would dissolve marriage before going to someone else. Trouble is here, is that I probably will not be able to be with her friend, yet have feelings for her. I am honest to a fault, and it stresses me out beyond belief to have feelings for someone other then my wife because of said agreement. You can call me simple. I thought of some options: 1. explain my feelings for her friend and move out 2. stay for a month, try patch things and see(1) From the book I would assume 2 is better for females, but with 1. it seems to be more honest, but as well more Mars like. Any thoughts? Or should I go to alt.support.divorce? thanks for all the support, Andy.

Response:

barbwireandlace <barbwireandl…@hotmail.com

wrote: Andy, You talked about papers being signed, so I am now wondering if you both are from different cultures, or the same. If you are from different cultures, that might explain why there is a communication problem. I’m not saying you can’t talk with each other, but that some times different cultures, or languages make it hard to understand each other, and how you were brought up changes the way you interact in a marriage. From what you wrote, I don’t see too much hope for you all, I’m sorry, but maybe it is time to go your seperate ways.

When both of us have good time, ie relaxed, we don’t try to solve anything, then we can talk ok, but during work days we would fight indiscriminatly. I have mastered my english pretty well, I can see when it is coming so I back off. But often issues are unresolved, I am afraid to talk to her, because I don’t want to be yelled at again. She is 100% canadaian, who has vietnameese background and I am russian. She cares for my physical well being, but we just can’t talk to each other turkey. I do try hard, but when I do try hard, we end up in same place: different rooms. I think in our family there are two leaders, so conflicts arise from that. Even though we separated our duties and things respectively.  Both of us are stubborn as hell. I think that why we are trying to stick together, because for both of us failure is not an option. Yet when either of us asks the other person to do something, it takes some convincing and threatning to get them to do something, that would require some effort. Ie, going somewhere to get something. I think I bend more then she does. But when one of us does not do something other person is asking, just in spite(even when we didn’t really have argument) then it is hard for me to do something for her next time. You can see how problematic it can get. Plus in the family where she came from, she was the more responsible of all her parents are not to be relied upon at all. They did never really give us much help when we started out first, and often rest of the family *was* disapproving, because I was white. Imagine that! I think she is playing survivor game with me, and I don’t want to play that. It feels like she would be a great friend, but not a wife. Like really all things that drive us apart, they would bring us closer as friends. But I guess we can’t really be friends if we divorce, at least she says so. For some reason I feel ill really analyzing our relationship… like I feel stressed and my stomach feels funny, would that be telltale sign of anything? thanks, Andy

Response:

c…@yahoo.com writes:

snip of really long paragraph

You should really be a more compelling writer than that if you choose to ignore the normal rules of written communication and string all your thoughts into one several-page paragraph.

I just need to figure out wether I should stay or not, and if I do stay what do I do.

Why would you stay, given what you describe?  What do you get out of this relationship?   Can you imagine helping to change this relationship so that it was one that gave you joy?  Can your wife?  Can you remember why you married each other? If the answer to all of these things is "no," then it is hard to see how to justify further effort.  If the answer is "yes," then you might consider counseling, or marriagebuilders.com or some positive action undertaken as a couple.         Doug

Response:

barbwireandlace <barbwireandl…@hotmail.com

wrote: You didn’t mention how long you have been married, but I find that in a early marriage there are a lot of differences to work out. Simple things that can soon turn into big things. It sounds like you are both pulling away from each other, instead of finding out exactly what you want in your marriage.

Its 6 years so far. Ok, we have gotten married for papers, and told each other that we would try hard to make this work. Well, I guess it might not be working. I have really denied myself even socializing with any females, so to make sure that I am not looking for easy way out – in this 6 years. However early there, she was worried that I would leave, so she did not sign papers for me for a while, after we moved together. I could’ve been deported she realized that. But after a while she did sign the papers after like 1 year or something. Her decision to do that put hardships on our life, first 2 years of life, because she was only one working and going to school, since I could not bring any money home, as much as I wished. I feel that she still that she is distrustful towards me. When I was asking her why did she do that, she told me exacly what I told you, after not wanting to tell me a few times befor. Her parents were disapproving our marrige too. Her family barely accepts me now. Few do much more, then the rest. Like her distant uncle, and aunt where we live now. I don’t think I can live in atmosphere of such mistrust and ridicule of who I am. That what it feels like. I am gemeni, so naturally I am a bit more mixed up then other signs, plus I am a horse, so I do like to work like a horse, for things that I belive in. She is completely disinitrested in what I do, how I am planning to make ourselves "fuck you" rich. She is very outgoing, she bonds with people well, but on the home front she does not seem to deal all that well. She was always getting in fights with her parents. Anyway having a fight it seems is her way to communicate about present tasks/problems at hand. If I am not paying attention to her wether I am busy or tired, she gets upset and starts a fight size of texas. Some days it is not so bad. So all of my friends like her, and I can see how they will react to me divorcing.

You mention that she expects to be pampered and to have some money withen your marriage. Maybe that is not really her problem. Maybe she feels your feelings for her wandering, and the only way she can let you feel her helplessness is to critisize you for not being who she wants. Just a thought, don’t know if that helps or not.

I was not wandering until 2 month ago. At all. We were trying make it work, it worked a bit so as long as we don’t really try to solve anything together. So if we do separate tasks between two of us and don’t try get other one to do it, then we would be fine. Also being seprated into two rooms, did work to reduce number of conflicts. I don’t think that marrige suppose to be that way. I want to sit down at the table with my spouse and figure out financial strategies for our investments, but I feel that we would not get anywhere, because either of us does not really listen to each other. Best thing we do, is pretend and play along without being genuine(which really irks me).

If you want your marriage to work, you need to put away the silly feelings for her girlfriend. You do realize that nothing good will come of that don’t you? It is very easy to turn away from your spouse, and seek companionship with someone else. It seems like a easy fix to happiness. Look at the long run though, and realize though that you are not solving your happiness problem, and in truth only adding another wedge between you and your wife.

If silly was the word to desribe them, then it would be fine. They are more then silly, because I am not seeking her for sex, but for companionship. Perhaps that I can’t see myself having kids with my wife, because of how often we fight and bicker about basic things, I do see myself having kids with her friend. And whats more I am prepared to go where she goes. To the end of the world? I think you get the hint where I am going with this.

If you think your marriage can not be saved, then you must be honest and end it, before turning to someone else. That is the decent thing to do. Maybe you could try and put as much energy into getting to know your wife, and working your problems out first before you throw in the towel.

I think it our fault that we did not fix marrige, because when I have realized feelings for her girlfriend, the weight of all negative things and troubles in our relationship, plus a pull of my heart towards her, made my head really spin. I am trying to weigh and balance things here, but my head is still spinning. Really hard, which makes my head hurt sometimes. I think I should give last fair chance to our 6 year wandering.

Ask yourself these questions honestly… Do you love your wife? Do you see a future with her if you are happy in your own life? What are the needs that need to be met so that your wife is happy and what are your needs that you need to be happy? Talk those over with each other, and see where that leads to.

I am looking at it now, it seems that I can’t picture myself with my wife, while she is wonderful person, but mostly outsiders.

Another suggestion, and I have used this myself. When you are angry it is so easy to say things you don’t really mean, and it hurts the other person terribly. Try asking her if you two can get together in a week, and have a talk about your marriage. That gives you both a week to get your thoughts together, and come to the feelings on what you want to say without having anger in your voice, and a need to hurt each other.

Tried that, she just gets either: 1. angry and worked up, and defensive. after which she clamps up and talk is pretty much over. 2. she starts crying, which quicky leads to No. 1. See her way of dealing with things is *not to deal* with them. Put them away somewhere in her mind and forget about them. I try to talk to her about things, and it just leads to more fights to be forgotten. Many of at least marginally wise would say that this approach would lead to explosive situation and instability in relationships. But here it is, and I am stuck with it.

I’m not much help for you, but just some suggestions you could try or think about.

Probably I’d have to talk to my parents, because they are quite good at this relationship stuff, I am going to visit them soon. And another thing: I don’t think I can see my wifes friend with another person, which makes it really hard. Love? Quite probably. I guess we have lots of baggage in our relationship eh? If you can call that, a relationship… thanks, Andy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<c…@yahoo.com

wrote: QUESTION: should I look at relationship and say gee there so many things wrong with it, that I should not stay unless most of them can’t be fixed? I mean do I try to suffer, and keep going with relationship? Like being moderately irratated and annoyed at my wife, throughout my lifetime? Collecting tons of emotional baggage, while keeping faithful? No I am not at the cracking point now, but in the future if we have kids I can see some solid problems, that is why if I can’t rectify my problems now I’d probably make a run for it. I don’t think I’d be able to marry her friend. I constructed some mental pictures of what would happend, and doubt it would happend, though I think I fell for her quite hard. Would the be different materials I can read up on, about relationships to see where we heading, what we can do and how much for both of us it would cost? I tried talking to her that I am not happy, but she does not want to talk. You can call me coward, and her a bully, and I am not very good at confrontations.(seen back to the future?;-)) anyway, I feel powerless to change my current marriage, because my wife does not tolerate me speaking up about relationship. She either cries or gets angry. She does not consider that I try to fix things, it seems. I think she does not want to admit that we even *have* problems. Clearly we do, but the real difficult point here, is communication. She does not listen when she is angry. And she gets angry quite quickly if I try to talk about our relationship. I say here things are wrong with me, and he what I see is irratating to me. Response is either in the ballpark of: too bad or she list some more of my faults. She already have suggested in ‘giving up’ tone while ago that we probably should divorce. Or noted that we are heading for divorce. Yes we do have sex now and then, and I do eat food she makes, but she does not cook as often. She noted that we both take each other for granted with a sigh, and that was that. I think we do take each other for granted, I try however giver her flowers at unexpected moments, twice I scored her some diamond rings when she expected them in the least. But then it all rolls off. I put question like that, say we were in Iraq, or say Russia dirt poor would’ve we been married? Would this marriage would last as long as it did now, in this limbo? probably not. … hmm, any insights? Thanks, Andy.

If you’re asking if the two of you should stay married, I’m going to say no. And the reason I’m saying no is because from all you’ve written here and in your other posts, it doesn’t sound like either of you wants to be married to each other. You’re not kind to each other, or merciful to each other, and often times more tormenting of each other than at all genuninely supportive. I mean in a great multitude of small, although seemingly significant ways, the two of you don’t sound genuinely loving towards each other, but only hurtful to each other. Look, I’m not getting judgement or moralistic here. I’m just not invested in the two of you to really give much of a damn one way or the other if your marriage stays together or not. But in as much as a stranger can care about two people he’s never met, as individuals, I’m not hearing that the two of you are being nice and kind and helpful and supportive of each other. And what it sounds like is two little kids who are stuck in a room and they just don’t want to be together. And you know, if that’s the attitude which each of you has, that’s perfectly fine with me because I have no desire to tell folks to stay together if they don’t want to be together of their own totally free will. So if that’s the way the two of you feel about each other, and if that’s the way you two are going to conduct yourselves with each other — being less loving and just more of a vexation to the spirit to each other — then the most loving thing I can recommend to the two of you is that you just dissolve this marriage and each of you just go your own separate way. And again, I’m not trying to pass judgement here. But the fact of the matter is that a marital relationship requires work and it requires courage. It take work to be kind, and helpful, and support and merciful to each other, and it take courage to confront each other and to plug through problems when they crop up. And I’m just not hearing that the two of you are investing the work or the courage to make this marriage anything more than just a superficial relationship which is being seemingly hurtful and eroding to each of you. I’m not hearing that you want to be together. And you know, that’s perfectly fine by me because I have no desire to encourage folks to stay married unless they’re willing to do the work of marriage of their own free will. So from where I sit, you don’t have to feel guilty or ashamed about how you feel about each other or this relationship. But if you’re not going to be together of your own totally free will choice, and you’re not each going to be helpful and supportive and loving and merciful to each other, and if the two of you are just going to be tormenting or sarcastic or problem avoiding with to each other, then don’t ask me in good conscience to encourage the two of you to stay together. So there you have it. It takes courage and it takes work to stay married in any healthy way and if the two of you are not going to come at that totally of your own free will, then I’m not going to encourage you two to stay together. Okay, that issue aside, the other issue here Andy is your talk about your feelings towards your wife’s friends. And in the simplest possible terms, I’m going to tell you to just forget her. Or more to the point, just give up your romantic notions about this woman. First off, this is your wife’s friend. So just stay away from it for that reason alone. But even more than this, when you’re too much thinking about this other woman, it’s just taking the focus off your own marriage. And again, I’m not getting moralistic on you hear because I really don’t care if you were screwing the neighborhood cows. But your thinking about this woman is simply adding to the emotional confusion you’re feeling about your own marriage. And just for your own sense of mental clarity, it just makes it very difficult to sort out in your own mind what’s right or wrong about what you should do about your own marital relationship while you’re at all entertaining any thoughts of what it might be like to be with your wife’s friend. So it’s in your own best interest — in terms of being able to think clearly about your present situation — if you just resign yourself to giving up any thoughts about a future with this other woman. Now that again is totally your choice. But I’m only suggesting it so you can better deal with your marital situation — either deciding to stay married or not stay married. In other words, it’s helpful to you to give up romantic notions about this other woman if only so that you can better and more objectively focus on this marriage that you currently have and how you’re going to deal about the future of that. So there you have it. And I hope that perspective is of some help to you, CJ

Response:

c…@yahoo.com wrote:

barbwireandlace <barbwireandl…@hotmail.com wrote:

<snippers

I think we are both a bit immature. I try to be as flexible as possbile at times, but she tries to always to downplay it. As well, she likes to blame me for alot of things as well. Last time I lost passport, she said it was clearly me, though there was no evidence of that. I suggested that it may have gone missing, and anyone can be responsible she felt it was important to point out that it was me. Somehow I understand that she feels obligated to make me feel bad.(that would be rather one dimensional observation.) My fault is I make fun of her in the public, I am not sure where that is coming from. QUESTION: should I look at relationship and say gee there so many things wrong with it, that I should not stay unless most of them can’t be fixed? I mean do I try to suffer, and keep going with relationship? Like being moderately irratated and annoyed at my wife, throughout my lifetime? Collecting tons of emotional baggage, while keeping faithful? No I am not at the cracking point now, but in the future if we have kids I can see some solid problems, that is why if I can’t rectify my problems now I’d probably make a run for it. I don’t think I’d be able to marry her friend. I constructed some mental pictures of what would happend, and doubt it would happend, though I think I fell for her quite hard. Would the be different materials I can read up on, about relationships to see where we heading, what we can do and how much for both of us it would cost? I tried talking to her that I am not happy, but she does not want to talk. You can call me coward, and her a bully, and I am not very good at confrontations.(seen back to the future?;-)) anyway, I feel powerless to change my current marriage, because my wife does not tolerate me speaking up about relationship. She either cries or gets angry. She does not consider that I try to fix things, it seems. I think she does not want to admit that we even *have* problems. Clearly we do, but the real difficult point here, is communication. She does not listen when she is angry. And she gets angry quite quickly if I try to talk about our relationship. I say here things are wrong with me, and he what I see is irratating to me. Response is either in the ballpark of: too bad or she list some more of my faults. She already have suggested in ‘giving up’ tone while ago that we probably should divorce. Or noted that we are heading for divorce. Yes we do have sex now and then, and I do eat food she makes, but she does not cook as often. She noted that we both take each other for granted with a sigh, and that was that. I think we do take each other for granted, I try however giver her flowers at unexpected moments, twice I scored her some diamond rings when she expected them in the least. But then it all rolls off. I put question like that, say we were in Iraq, or say Russia dirt poor would’ve we been married? Would this marriage would last as long as it did now, in this limbo? probably not. … hmm, any insights? Thanks, Andy.

Response:

Ignoramus24383 <ignoramus24…@nospam.24383.invalid

wrote: try to post a list of good things about your wife.

1. she is practical 2. socially she is better then me, when it comes to getting to know of unknown people. 3. she knows how to cook, which I can do pretty good as well 4. she is responsible with routine tasks, ie paying down her debts, rent etc. I can really lots more good things about her, but problem with two of us, is not who we are, but how we communicate with each other, which encourages non-communication. Regs, Andy

Response:

You didn’t mention how long you have been married, but I find that in a early marriage there are a lot of differences to work out. Simple things that can soon turn into big things. It sounds like you are both pulling away from each other, instead of finding out exactly what you want in your marriage. You mention that she expects to be pampered and to have some money withen your marriage. Maybe that is not really her problem. Maybe she feels your feelings for her wandering, and the only way she can let you feel her helplessness is to critisize you for not being who she wants. Just a thought, don’t know if that helps or not. If you want your marriage to work, you need to put away the silly feelings for her girlfriend. You do realize that nothing good will come of that don’t you? It is very easy to turn away from your spouse, and seek companionship with someone else. It seems like a easy fix to happiness. Look at the long run though, and realize though that you are not solving your happiness problem, and in truth only adding another wedge between you and your wife. If you think your marriage can not be saved, then you must be honest and end it, before turning to someone else. That is the decent thing to do. Maybe you could try and put as much energy into getting to know your wife, and working your problems out first before you throw in the towel. Ask yourself these questions honestly… Do you love your wife? Do you see a future with her if you are happy in your own life? What are the needs that need to be met so that your wife is happy and what are your needs that you need to be happy? Talk those over with each other, and see where that leads to. Another suggestion, and I have used this myself. When you are angry it is so easy to say things you don’t really mean, and it hurts the other person terribly. Try asking her if you two can get together in a week, and have a talk about your marriage. That gives you both a week to get your thoughts together, and come to the feelings on what you want to say without having anger in your voice, and a need to hurt each other. I’m not much help for you, but just some suggestions you could try or think about. momalot <c…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:Pt2ia.599698$Yo4.45437072@news1.calgary.shaw.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi, Currently I feel like in the pits today, realizing that my wife an I are vastly incompatible, though we came far ways in working out a set of routines, that sort of hold glue together of our relationship, as far as I don’t try it really examine how our relationship is going. Most of the time, when my wife talks about things, I don’t see intelligent woman, though she is smart. She thinks I am completely irresponsible and shall not be trusted and always taunts me in public with all misses that I did have. Rarely she supports me. Every time I support her, she forgets that. We used to have great deal of fights, but now it seems there only indifference can remove large number of annoyances and disagreements from our relationship. Every time I do something she criticizes me, that I am too slow, but I notice she never likes to finish any task at hand. She is better then me at immediatly dealing with immediate items. I prefer to take my time to finish things ,get them done well. But as of late I can’t get myself together to do simplest things, that I feel that divorce would be best for both of us. She always taunts me to take me for everything that I have/will have, semi-jokingly. I just wonder. I don’t really care. So far I have painted a picture of myself as a lazy bastard, but I am not, its just some people expect things to be done when they want them to, without having any real reason to do so at specific moment I think someday I will pack few things up and move to my friends place. No we don’t have kids, but I am currently thinking of them and what kind of hell it would be to live in between two of us. She is supporting only at times when I point out specific things that I need a support in, sometimes demanding … which I hate to do and it makes me want to crawl into a corner stop talking to her. Sometimes I ask for support and I just get in the fight, which is not what I did ask for. It does not help that I am falling for my wifes friend. I have known her from the time I started dating my wife. When I looked back at times, I think I have denied myself fact that I am might be a little fond of her, I was committed to my marrige. Over time it grew into whatever it is now. Now it feels that I am at the fork. I feel almost physically ill, because if I divorce, I probably will loose contact with her friend. But staying here all the same would probably will eventually drive me insane. I guess third choice would be, pick out things up and move elsewhere, but it is not solution to our incompability, and sure enough I may find someone else that would be more compatible with me. The less we see of each other the less we fight. However I’d expect myself to be supportive of my wife, and see all the good things in her and I can’t. She can’t either, though I can say that I liked that she was so cheerful at the time we were dating, but that is all lost, it seems. The core of the problem is we fight and she always brings up things from the past, really irrelevant perhaps, tiny embarrasing things, sometimes bigger ones. I think it is effect how untrusting she was at the beginning of our relationship. On many many ocassions she pointed out all the ways I am not her ideal husband, talking of my personality traits as downfalls of our relationship. She expected a husband that would treat her like princess, buy diamonds for her, carry all her bags when she goes shopping(frequently) attend to her every whim, like bring deserts at night, have her not work and all other things. When she does not get what she wants even tiniest thing, like to do something, when I am busy, she gets really annoyed then quickly angry and there we go again. We were poor when we started, and it was hard going but I have attained a level income that was far better then what most friends were earning, but she still was not happy. I can keep income flowing into our accounts, but what we missing is dialogue. I can’t ever talk to her about getting anything done. If she decided about something that would be it, and there will be no discussion about it. She will not try to persuade that what she is doing is right, yet she explode at me, to dissuade an argument or a dialog about any specific problem. Unless it is something specifically she likes to talk about and only if converstaion is to flow exacly the way she likes it. I have given up trying to get through to her while ago, now it seems only dialogue we have about nontrivial things is fighting, that is only way we can convice one another to do something, because our communication pipes are so plugged up. I think somewhere there is my fault in things as well. That friend of hers is very friendly to me, we consider each other good friends, and if it all I am to her I’d take just that. Here and there I get hints that she really likes me, like we do joke that she is my second wife, though she has repeated in thanks of some email when I helped her with something, outside of the context of the crowd where it would be funny. I think she is knows how to ruffle my feathers, and I wonder if it is from friendship or from some other kind of interest in me, or she is a friend by proxy. I am going to see my parents sometime in a space of this month see what they say, and perhaps talk to my old friends. Big cities on west coast seem to be devoid of people who like to bond tight friendships, ones that can help either side with resloving particular problems with live. But then again maybe I am more introverted then before. I just need to figure out wether I should stay or not, and if I do stay what do I do. regards, Andy PS: any help will be appreciated.

Response:

Hi, Currently I feel like in the pits today, realizing that my wife an I are vastly incompatible, though we came far ways in working out a set of routines, that sort of hold glue together of our relationship, as far as I don’t try it really examine how our relationship is going. Most of the time, when my wife talks about things, I don’t see intelligent woman, though she is smart. She thinks I am completely irresponsible and shall not be trusted and always taunts me in public with all misses that I did have. Rarely she supports me. Every time I support her, she forgets that. We used to have great deal of fights, but now it seems there only indifference can remove large number of annoyances and disagreements from our relationship. Every time I do something she criticizes me, that I am too slow, but I notice she never likes to finish any task at hand. She is better then me at immediatly dealing with immediate items. I prefer to take my time to finish things ,get them done well. But as of late I can’t get myself together to do simplest things, that I feel that divorce would be best for both of us. She always taunts me to take me for everything that I have/will have, semi-jokingly. I just wonder. I don’t really care. So far I have painted a picture of myself as a lazy bastard, but I am not, its just some people expect things to be done when they want them to, without having any real reason to do so at specific moment I think someday I will pack few things up and move to my friends place. No we don’t have kids, but I am currently thinking of them and what kind of hell it would be to live in between two of us. She is supporting only at times when I point out specific things that I need a support in, sometimes demanding … which I hate to do and it makes me want to crawl into a corner stop talking to her. Sometimes I ask for support and I just get in the fight, which is not what I did ask for. It does not help that I am falling for my wifes friend. I have known her from the time I started dating my wife. When I looked back at times, I think I have denied myself fact that I am might be a little fond of her, I was committed to my marrige. Over time it grew into whatever it is now. Now it feels that I am at the fork. I feel almost physically ill, because if I divorce, I probably will loose contact with her friend. But staying here all the same would probably will eventually drive me insane. I guess third choice would be, pick out things up and move elsewhere, but it is not solution to our incompability, and sure enough I may find someone else that would be more compatible with me. The less we see of each other the less we fight. However I’d expect myself to be supportive of my wife, and see all the good things in her and I can’t. She can’t either, though I can say that I liked that she was so cheerful at the time we were dating, but that is all lost, it seems. The core of the problem is we fight and she always brings up things from the past, really irrelevant perhaps, tiny embarrasing things, sometimes bigger ones. I think it is effect how untrusting she was at the beginning of our relationship. On many many ocassions she pointed out all the ways I am not her ideal husband, talking of my personality traits as downfalls of our relationship. She expected a husband that would treat her like princess, buy diamonds for her, carry all her bags when she goes shopping(frequently) attend to her every whim, like bring deserts at night, have her not work and all other things. When she does not get what she wants even tiniest thing, like to do something, when I am busy, she gets really annoyed then quickly angry and there we go again. We were poor when we started, and it was hard going but I have attained a level income that was far better then what most friends were earning, but she still was not happy. I can keep income flowing into our accounts, but what we missing is dialogue. I can’t ever talk to her about getting anything done. If she decided about something that would be it, and there will be no discussion about it. She will not try to persuade that what she is doing is right, yet she explode at me, to dissuade an argument or a dialog about any specific problem. Unless it is something specifically she likes to talk about and only if converstaion is to flow exacly the way she likes it. I have given up trying to get through to her while ago, now it seems only dialogue we have about nontrivial things is fighting, that is only way we can convice one another to do something, because our communication pipes are so plugged up. I think somewhere there is my fault in things as well. That friend of hers is very friendly to me, we consider each other good friends, and if it all I am to her I’d take just that. Here and there I get hints that she really likes me, like we do joke that she is my second wife, though she has repeated in thanks of some email when I helped her with something, outside of the context of the crowd where it would be funny. I think she is knows how to ruffle my feathers, and I wonder if it is from friendship or from some other kind of interest in me, or she is a friend by proxy. I am going to see my parents sometime in a space of this month see what they say, and perhaps talk to my old friends. Big cities on west coast seem to be devoid of people who like to bond tight friendships, ones that can help either side with resloving particular problems with live. But then again maybe I am more introverted then before. I just need to figure out wether I should stay or not, and if I do stay what do I do. regards, Andy PS: any help will be appreciated.

Response:

Question:

HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it. If we were to Divorce do I have to pay her anything. She currently works and makes more then I do, but it’s off the books.

With such a ST marriage, alimony would be doubtful, but then… only your judge knows for sure. Secondly, We bought a house recently and my name is on the mortgage but her’s is on the deed with mine.  I don’t really care about the house since there is no value in it.  After any real estate agents fee’s, we’d be lucky to break even.

Its most likely 1/2 her house.  Sell it and split the proceeds or loss, or one of you can buy out the other’s "equity."  Whatever you do, try to do it amicably, get an agreement in writing  ASAP, which will save you a bundle in legal fees.  [Roger]

Response:

HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it.  It seems she changed from the moment of " I Do" I Love her, but I hate having the life sucked out of me.

How long did you know this woman before you two got married?

Response:

Jerry said… HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it.  It seems she changed from the moment of " I Do" I Love her, but I hate having the life sucked out of me. I don’t know what your specific complaints are about the marriage but how about some counseling? You want to give up after three months? How long have you known each other? You might want to try posting at alt.support.marriage, maybe marriage advice would be more appropriate at this point rather than divorce advice. If you really do love her, you might want to put a little more work into it.

I agree.  The first year of a marriage, in my opinion, is the most difficult.  Giving up after three months is a shame. Jerry

– Suzanne A bore is someone who opens his mouth and puts his feats in it. –Henry Ford

Response:

And quit leaving your dirty clothes on the bathroom floor Trish

Hey!  Don’t generalize!  It was my wife (not me) that left the dirty clothes on the bathroom floor! Thanks, Mike

Response:

David, How old are you, 12?  You sure are acting like it. Thanks, Mike — To reply via email remove the X’s from my email address:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it.  It seems she changed from the moment of " I Do" I Love her, but I hate having the life sucked out of me. If we were to Divorce do I have to pay her anything. She currently works and makes more then I do, but it’s off the books. Secondly, We bought a house recently and my name is on the mortgage but her’s is on the deed with mine.  I don’t really care about the house since there is no value in it.  After any real estate agents fee’s we’d be lucky to break even. Any advice would be helpful Thanks

Response:

I appreciate the responds to my post.  I’m 34 and my wife is 29 and we dated about 2 years before getting married. I agree that I might be jumping the gun to put it lightly.  I just use to be such a happy person and ever since we got married we have been fighting about the stupidest things and it’s so depressing to live like this. Tonight, I’ll cook diner for her and try and have a civil evening together. Once again, Thanks for the good advice.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it.  It seems she changed from the moment of " I Do" I Love her, but I hate having the life sucked out of me. If we were to Divorce do I have to pay her anything. She currently works and makes more then I do, but it’s off the books. Secondly, We bought a house recently and my name is on the mortgage but her’s is on the deed with mine.  I don’t really care about the house since there is no value in it.  After any real estate agents fee’s we’d be lucky to break even. Any advice would be helpful Thanks

Response:

David said… I appreciate the responds to my post.  I’m 34 and my wife is 29 and we dated about 2 years before getting married. I agree that I might be jumping the gun to put it lightly.  I just use to be such a happy person and ever since we got married we have been fighting about the stupidest things and it’s so depressing to live like this.

It could be the reality and the finality of actually being married.  No more thrill of the chase, maybe? If you dated and everything was fine for two years, then I absolutely agree that you’re jumping the gun.  You need to go to couples therapy and see if you can’t work things out. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tonight, I’ll cook diner for her and try and have a civil evening together. Once again, Thanks for the good advice. HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it.  It seems she changed from the moment of " I Do" I Love her, but I hate having the life sucked out of me. If we were to Divorce do I have to pay her anything. She currently works and makes more then I do, but it’s off the books. Secondly, We bought a house recently and my name is on the mortgage but her’s is on the deed with mine.  I don’t really care about the house since there is no value in it.  After any real estate agents fee’s we’d be lucky to break even. Any advice would be helpful Thanks

– Suzanne A bore is someone who opens his mouth and puts his feats in it. –Henry Ford

Response:

"Mike wrote And quit leaving your dirty clothes on the bathroom floor Trish Hey!  Don’t generalize!  It was my wife (not me) that left the dirty clothes on the bathroom floor! Thanks, Mike

I wasn’t generalizing, I was reliving the first year of marriage and the kinds of stupid arguments that we all have. Honestly, I don’t really care about clothes on the bathroom floor, the lone glass in the kitchen sink, or how much garlic is in the spaghetti sauce….life is way too short.  Besides, it’s usually my clothes on the bathroom floor, anyway Trish

Response:

I appreciate the responds to my post.  I’m 34 and my wife is 29 and we dated about 2 years before getting married. I agree that I might be jumping the gun to put it lightly.  I just use to be such a happy person and ever since we got married we have been fighting about the stupidest things and it’s so depressing to live like this.

So what has happened in the last 3 months that hadn’t happened in the last 2 years? -b

Response:

I appreciate the responds to my post.  I’m 34 and my wife is 29 and we dated about 2 years before getting married. I agree that I might be jumping the gun to put it lightly.  I just use to be such a happy person and ever since we got married we have been fighting about the stupidest things and it’s so depressing to live like this. So what has happened in the last 3 months that hadn’t happened in the last 2 years?

I hope it can be worked out…  I’d say give it more time….  maybe there’s just other stresses going on right now…  i remember being really stressed right after we got married, just with getting my name changed and stuff, took months!  Try not to sweat the little stuff and think back about why you decided to marry in the first place… Get counseling if you need to, but don’t give up yet.

Response:

You fought about garlic in the spaghetti sauce, too?  Small world!! Thanks, Mike — To reply via email remove the X’s from my email address:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Mike wrote And quit leaving your dirty clothes on the bathroom floor Trish Hey!  Don’t generalize!  It was my wife (not me) that left the dirty clothes on the bathroom floor! Thanks, Mike I wasn’t generalizing, I was reliving the first year of marriage and the kinds of stupid arguments that we all have. Honestly, I don’t really care about clothes on the bathroom floor, the lone glass in the kitchen sink, or how much garlic is in the spaghetti sauce….life is way too short.  Besides, it’s usually my clothes on the bathroom floor, anyway Trish

Response:

Yesterday afternoon she called and we had a nice talk. We agreed that when we don’t talk about the things that we hate about each others families we really don’t fight.  Besides the small things which we can handle fine.  So last night I cooked her a romantic dinner and we agreed that we refer to the families as"It". So we did not talk about "It" and had a great night. I think I was angry when I visited this newsgroup yesterday, but realize from the responses that I need not be so immature and bail when things get rough. That I need to stick it out and really really try.  I appreciate the responses from the group. Thanks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it.  It seems she changed from the moment of " I Do" I Love her, but I hate having the life sucked out of me. If we were to Divorce do I have to pay her anything. She currently works and makes more then I do, but it’s off the books. Secondly, We bought a house recently and my name is on the mortgage but her’s is on the deed with mine.  I don’t really care about the house since there is no value in it.  After any real estate agents fee’s we’d be lucky to break even. Any advice would be helpful Thanks

Response:

Yesterday afternoon she called and we had a nice talk. We agreed that when we don’t talk about the things that we hate about each others families we really don’t fight.  Besides the small things which we can handle fine. So last night I cooked her a romantic dinner and we agreed that we refer to the families as"It". So we did not talk about "It" and had a great night.

Good to hear it. Do you live in the same area as your family and your in-laws? Maybe a change of scenery may help….. Jerry

Response:

Unfortunately we live about 5 minutes from her Mom. I now realize that might have been a major mistake.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon she called and we had a nice talk. We agreed that when we don’t talk about the things that we hate about each others families we really don’t fight.  Besides the small things which we can handle fine. So last night I cooked her a romantic dinner and we agreed that we refer to the families as"It". So we did not talk about "It" and had a great night. Good to hear it. Do you live in the same area as your family and your in-laws? Maybe a change of scenery may help….. Jerry

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David pondered a bit and then came up with… Yesterday afternoon she called and we had a nice talk. We agreed that when we don’t talk about the things that we hate about each others families we really don’t fight.  Besides the small things which we can handle fine.  So last night I cooked her a romantic dinner and we agreed that we refer to the families as"It". So we did not talk about "It" and had a great night. I think I was angry when I visited this newsgroup yesterday, but realize from the responses that I need not be so immature and bail when things get rough. That I need to stick it out and really really try.  I appreciate the responses from the group.

Glad to hear that so far, things are going well.  Good luck in the future! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it.  It seems she changed from the moment of " I Do" I Love her, but I hate having the life sucked out of me. If we were to Divorce do I have to pay her anything. She currently works and makes more then I do, but it’s off the books. Secondly, We bought a house recently and my name is on the mortgage but her’s is on the deed with mine.  I don’t really care about the house since there is no value in it.  After any real estate agents fee’s we’d be lucky to break even. Any advice would be helpful Thanks

– Suzanne The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time. –Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)

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HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it.  It seems she changed from the moment of " I Do" I Love her, but I hate having the life sucked out of me. If we were to Divorce do I have to pay her anything. She currently works and makes more then I do, but it’s off the books. Secondly, We bought a house recently and my name is on the mortgage but her’s is on the deed with mine.  I don’t really care about the house since there is no value in it.  After any real estate agents fee’s we’d be lucky to break even. Any advice would be helpful Thanks

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 http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/ah.htm SEXIST SOCIETY Ours is an overtly sexist society, biased toward women. The evidence is obvious and overwhelming – you don’t have to look any farther than common sense. In times of war, men are the cannon fodder conscripted to die in battle, while women are offered the choice of military service; it is men who are forced to initiate courtship and finance sex; men must shoulder the primary responsibilities of mortgages and college tuitions and weddings (not to mention diamond rings). The justice system is disgracefully female-friendly: judges regularly give the nod to women predators who practice divorce as a business; custody of children is routinely awarded to the wife, even if she is a known abuser (fathers win custody of children in less than 2% of divorce cases, and usually only when the mother is deceased or otherwise incapacitated); and when men and women commit the same crime, men are many times more likely to be sentenced to prison. Women have hoodwinked male society; the slave mistresses have conned their drones into thanking them for a beating. They bully men with their vaginas. But by positioning themselves as innocent, sexually pure "victims" of male "domination", women have manipulated men into granting them tacit sanction of their whoredom. It is women who are the true oppressors, not the oppressed: the logo of the feminist movement should be not a female gender symbol, but a leather-clad dominatrix raising a bloody whip. But even though they can gain easy access to male incomes, still, like spoiled children, they want more. They lust after men’s jobs as well, manifestly in a spirit of personal validation. With one hand dipping into masculine pockets, they brag of their equality to men. But the ethics of "liberation" must have made their prostitution self-evident, even to them -a situation absolutely intolerable for such practiced self-deceivers – and their response was to campaign harder to insinuate themselves into the workplace, to try to legitimize their gender with titles and offices. In the business world men are natural egalitarians – proof enough is a recent Gallup poll which recorded that 99% of men approved of equal pay for equal work. The emphasis here is on the word "equal". Men don’t care who does the job, as long as the job gets done and done well. Accomplishment generally presupposes hard work, but a new generation of "feminists", trained from childhood to be takers, and so accustomed to manipulating men into giving them what they want, marched into office buildings expecting a sinecure and found labor instead. They assumed that men would hand them equal jobs and equal pay just because they were biologically female, and were shocked to learn that their superiors weren’t writing out fat paychecks for flirting and baring cleavage. Instead of working harder, women began to use their energies to bitch about how unfair the "man’s world" is. It would never dawn on them that they are the sole authors of all their problems. For centuries, business has evolved as a male domain because men, conditioned by women to have to purchase female attention, have been constrained into performing as workhorses. Women have forced men to create such a unique environment, yet they are dismayed to discover that their idle and alien presence is not particularly welcome here, unless they are willing to toil as hard as men. What works well in the bedroom fails miserably in the boardroom. Business depends on effort-that is to say, giving, not taking. With few exceptions, the higher the salary, the greater the requirement of time and labor, and women, spoon-fed a diet of female pornography (women’s books, magazines and television shows), have discovered that the true-life business world isn’t elegant lunches and deal-making on the slopes of Aspen, but stress and deadlines and traffic jams. So accustomed to getting something for nothing, they have to come face to face with the awful realization that profit exacts a price: the road to commercial success imposes an expensive toll. RADICAL, MAN Since the mind-bending days of the late 60’s, the equal rights movement has struggled to come of age. But it has been a journey beset with complications. Since women’s brand of "logic" is mercurial at best, it was hardly unexpected when the original coalition of like-minded thinkers splintered off into rival factions, each devoted to their own polemical agendas. One such sisterhood is the radical feminists, a peculiar and vicious cult of man-haters who prey on lesbians, the psychologically crippled, and unsuspecting college co-eds as recruits for their fanatical crusade. In archetypically cultish fashion they insist on a polarized philosophy: if you’re not for us, you’re against us. This is the worst kind of intellectual cowardice. A truly paranoid cabal, they are alienated from any appeal to reason, convinced that some ill-defined "patriarchy" is conspiring to oppress the female gender, and is solely responsible for all the horrors ever conceived by the human race, from rape to war to having sex with men. They have tried and convicted male society in the kangaroo court of their sadly freakish dogma and have pronounced the entire gender to be scum: in fact, a man’s only hope for salvation is to have his testicles shrivel up into ovaries. "Male", it seems, is a particularly nasty four-letter word. Radical feminists indulge themselves in half-truths, skewed statistics, and outright lies. Hopelessly chauvinistic, they refuse to tolerate any criticism or intellectual scrutiny of their claims. As with all women, they have quarantined themselves against reality with seasoned self-deceit. A typically egregious example of their data manipulation is an oft-cited "fact" in feminist literature which mourns that each year at least 150 thousand women die from symptoms related to anorexia and bulimia (since, wouldn’t you know it, it is men who pressure these poor victims to be thin). The actual number, according to government statistics, is about 100 (not thousand-just 100). But such alarmist teachings will be a booby-trap for uncritical minds. The radical feminists are far too narrow-minded to get it through their heads that women contract neurotic disease because they are uninhibitedly obsessed with themselves and their appearance; because they are trying to mimic the willowy models glamorized in check-out counter magazines (published by and intended for females); and because they are aspiring to such an unrealistic ideal because they have been brainwashed (by women) that such an appearance is beautiful, and will therefore attract a wealthy man. The radical feminists are militant bigots; they are bitter and mean-spirited hate-mongers. They divide the world into black and white, them and us. Their doctrine sanctifies the female as the moralizing and ennobling force of the universe, angelic victims of male treachery and perversion. In contrast, all men are potential abusers, killers, child molesters, and rapists, a hand’s reach from the violation of their precious female bodies (someone might want to inform them that men don’t have sexual thoughts about women with butch haircuts and figures like packing crates). Men are despots who plot to control women’s bodies by denying them birth control and rights to abortion; they are domineering opportunists lusting to procure women as sexual playtoys. Marriage is another trap of the "patriarchy", enslaving women to drudge as housewives "for free" (they conveniently ignore the actuality that if a housewife were to be paid a fair wage for labor, out of which was deducted her share of the mortgage, utilities, various insurances, repairs, car payments, food, clothing, and entertainment, she would have to get a second job just to pay her husband what she owed). Make-up, presumably another male fiat, degrades and victimizes women; and men invented high heels to hobble women from fleeing from sexual advances. It should be obvious to any rational thinker that such hysterical nonsense is the fruit of a very perverse solipsism, the equivalent of a lunatic ranting at his own reflection in a mirror. But it’s pernicious nonsense all the same. Like all women, the radical feminists are masters of self-delusion, and so they have hyperbolized a world of sweeping generalizations unencumbered by facts. To pronounce that all men are potential rapists is like saying that all boys can grow up to be President-the possibility may exist, but the odds are exceptionally low, and depend on many specific sets of circumstances. But by depersonalizing men into rapists and the "oppressive patriarchy", the feminist bigots can assuage any sense of guilt when they despise the masculine gender. These women desperately want to ennoble themselves as martyred revolutionaries, but the truth is that they are nothing but angry and bitter broads who can’t get a date. If men are "pigs", then these deluded evangelists are sexist sows. If one of them were suddenly transfigured into a beauty queen, she’d be thrusting her cleavage at men instead of screaming at them from behind a protest sign. They are too self-indulgent to be proper whores-it’s far less trouble to scorn men than to go on a diet. Radical feminists are responsible for the majority of negative aspects of the equal rights movement, including "sexual harassment" and "date rape", which open a Pandora’s box for false charges and flagrant abuse of men’s rights. They warp logic by trying to deny that hormones define and control female behavior, that emotionalism is biologically determined. They insist that human beings are born sexually neutral, clean slates on which society etches prescriptions of gender-specific behavior patterns. Unfortunately for their unstable theories, science has proven beyond doubt that the male and female brain differ not only in size (the male brain is bigger), but in functional activity. In many respects, … read more »

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You’ve stuck it out for three whole months?  How old are you and your wife? And your biggest concern about getting divorced is money? Marriage, any relationship actually, is a whole lotta work and I don’t think you’ve given yours the time and energy it needs.  Marriage counseling  would be a great place to start.  Divorce should be the very last thing to consider. And quit leaving your dirty clothes on the bathroom floor Trish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it.  It seems she changed from the moment of " I Do" I Love her, but I hate having the life sucked out of me. If we were to Divorce do I have to pay her anything. She currently works and makes more then I do, but it’s off the books. Secondly, We bought a house recently and my name is on the mortgage but her’s is on the deed with mine.  I don’t really care about the house since there is no value in it.  After any real estate agents fee’s we’d be lucky to break even. Any advice would be helpful Thanks

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David said… HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it.  It seems she changed from the moment of " I Do" I Love her, but I hate having the life sucked out of me. If we were to Divorce do I have to pay her anything. She currently works and makes more then I do, but it’s off the books. Secondly, We bought a house recently and my name is on the mortgage but her’s is on the deed with mine.  I don’t really care about the house since there is no value in it.  After any real estate agents fee’s we’d be lucky to break even.

On the chance that this is for real… You seem to only want (legal) advice about money. You didn’t explain much about why you feel this way. Have the two of you even talked about this, or are you planning a divorce surprise package? What is so bad after three months, anyway? Casey

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HI, I have just been married three months and I hate it.  It seems she changed from the moment of " I Do" I Love her, but I hate having the life sucked out of me.

I don’t know what your specific complaints are about the marriage but how about some counseling? You want to give up after three months? How long have you known each other? You might want to try posting at alt.support.marriage, maybe marriage advice would be more appropriate at this point rather than divorce advice. If you really do love her, you might want to put a little more work into it. Jerry

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